Anyone seen these videos? I must admit, it feels like the makers are being biased against the new-school, because a greater number of the Mid-2007+ songs they put are songs that are generally considered "appalling" starting with Soulja Boy, while before that they mostly included the classic songs and not something like Vanilla Ice etc. There's good modern rap, you just have to look for it.

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Plus they could've just as easily made Late 2005 the "death" by putting Laffy Taffy in there. That's how cherrypicked against 2007-2017 it is; maybe the videomakers believe in the Late 2006 Shift or something hence their "select more bad 2007+ songs" bias (j/k).

all of the 2007+ songs they put are generally "bad" songs
That's just an opinion though. All the rap songs made after 2006 sound really good to me IMO

That's just an opinion though. All the rap songs made after 2006 sound really good to me IMO

So Soulja Boy is really good to you? To each his own.

That's just an opinion though. All the rap songs made after 2006 sound really good to me IMO
no offense but most rap after 2006 is terrible at least the mainstream and I'm sorry to say rainbows but what makes most rappers that are mainstream now good like really soulja boy,future,lil Uzi,migos,lil yachty etc like really but everyone has their own tastes. :-[

I would say that while there is good hip-hop today, the sad thing is it's been taken over by Trap-rap which is a sub-genre I don't like. I really hope the likes of Kendrick, Logic, J. Cole, Joey Badass, Chance etc hip-hop explodes back into the mainstream.

Oh, and while I agree one has to look to find good modern rap, not all of it in the underground is awesome.

I would say that while there is good hip-hop today, the sad thing is it's been taken over by Trap-rap which is a sub-genre I don't like. I really hope the likes of Kendrick, Logic, J. Cole, Joey Badass, Chance etc hip-hop explodes back into the mainstream.

Oh, and while I agree one has to look to find good modern rap, not all of it in the underground is awesome.

I agree. Did you see the videos?

I agree. Did you see the videos?
Not yet, but from the summary in your OP, it seems that there was a change in the direction of hip-hop by 2004-05. I mean that's when Snap rap (which was just as bad, but much better than Trap) took hold and was popular for the rest of the decade.

Not yet, but from the summary in your OP, it seems that there was a change in the direction of hip-hop by 2004-05. I mean that's when Snap rap (which was just as bad, but much better than Trap) took hold and was popular for the rest of the decade.

Yeah. Though these particular videos cherrypicked the songs in such a way that the completely "appalling" songs didn't start until 2007, with Soulja Boy (though they could've just as well went with Laffy Taffy from 2005. Maybe the videomakers are believers in the Late 2006 Shift... j/k ;)).

Yeah. Though these particular videos cherrypicked the songs in such a way that the completely "appalling" songs didn't start until 2007, with Soulja Boy (though they could've just as well gone with Laffy Taffy from 2005. Maybe the video makers are believers in the Late 2006 Shift... j/k ;)).
Yeah, they sure did. They seem to forget that not all 00s hip-hop was Snap rap.

no offense but most rap after 2006 is terrible at least the mainstream and I'm sorry to say rainbows but what makes most rappers that are mainstream now good like really soulja boy,future,lil Uzi,migos,lil yachty etc like really but everyone has their own tastes. :-[

Yeah, everyone has their own taste and everyone has their own opinions, and not everyone is going to agree with you

Yeah, they sure did. They seem to forget that not all 00s hip-hop was Snap rap.

So you saw em now?

So you saw em now?
Not yet, but I will watch them.

On a good note, at least we can detect the good Hip Hop since its outnumbered, which can generate discussion. A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie's Drowning is great and has iconic status.

no offense but most rap after 2006 is terrible at least the mainstream and I'm sorry to say rainbows but what makes most rappers that are mainstream now good like really soulja boy,future,lil Uzi,migos,lil yachty etc like really but everyone has their own tastes. :-[


I think 2008-2012 was a good era for hip-hop.  We were past the ringtone rap era (Soulja Boy etc) but still in the early, more synth-heavy era of trap.

I think 2008-2012 was a good era for hip-hop.  We were past the ringtone rap era (Soulja Boy etc) but still in the early, more synth-heavy era of trap.


Didn't 2008 and early 2009 still have a noticeable amount of ringtone rap? That's what I remember.

I do know about the synth-heavy hop hop you're talking about. I really liked that as well. There was some of it in 2007 as well, like Flo Rida's Low and 50 Cent's Ayo Technology.

If you want to hear the real old school just listen to hip-hop from 1979-1984 when you had Grandmaster Flash, RUN-DMC and Spoonie G just to name a few.

I would say that while there is good hip-hop today, the sad thing is it's been taken over by Trap-rap which is a sub-genre I don't like. I really hope the likes of Kendrick, Logic, J. Cole, Joey Badass, Chance etc hip-hop explodes back into the mainstream.

Oh, and while I agree one has to look to find good modern rap, not all of it in the underground is awesome.
yeah underground is good now but the good rappers don't get noticed in this decade for some reason

So Soulja Boy is really good to you? To each his own.

Yeah.  Is that one song the only reason why you think all rap after 2006 is terrible?

Didn't 2008 and early 2009 still have a noticeable amount of ringtone rap? That's what I remember.

I do know about the synth-heavy hop hop you're talking about. I really liked that as well. There was some of it in 2007 as well, like Flo Rida's Low and 50 Cent's Ayo Technology.


2008 and 2009 did have some ringtone rap.  Anything by T-Pain as well as "Kiss Me Thru The Phone" by Soulja Boy falls into that category.  It was past its peak by that time though.  2007 was probably the biggest year for it.

I would say that while there is good hip-hop today, the sad thing is it's been taken over by Trap-rap which is a sub-genre I don't like. I really hope the likes of Kendrick, Logic, J. Cole, Joey Badass, Chance etc hip-hop explodes back into the mainstream.

Oh, and while I agree one has to look to find good modern rap, not all of it in the underground is awesome.

I actually like a lot of trap rap though ;D. Maybe it's an age thing ???

I actually like a lot of trap rap though ;D. Maybe it's an age thing ???

I love trap rap too! What’s your favorite song?

I actually like a lot of trap rap though ;D. Maybe it's an age thing ???
No. I don't think so. There are adolescents out there who don't like trap rap either.

No. I don't think so. There are adolescents out there who don't like trap rap either.

But then again the majority of people who hate trap rap are adults who can’t stand the hipster teens of today ;)

But then again the majority of people who hate trap rap are adults who can’t stand the hipster teens of today ;)
More like almost everyone ;). There are other types of music today aside from Trap rap.

More like almost everyone ;). There are other types of music today aside from Trap rap.

Nah. As a HS student  everyone in my class likes it including me  ;D

Nah. As a HS student  everyone in my class likes it including me  ;D
That is the case, but you all are in the minority. ;)

That is the case, but you all are in the minority. ;)

No we’re not. You’re just not in the young and hip generation ;)

No we’re not. You’re just not in the young and hip generation ;)
Yeah you are ;). Trap rap may be #1 among teenagers, but for everyone else it's other genres.

Yeah you are ;). Trap rap may be #1 among teenagers, but for everyone else it's other genres.

Exactly it’s #1 among teenagers, that’s why we are the new and hip generation ;) ;D

Exactly it’s #1 among teenagers, that’s why we are the new and hip generation ;) ;D
You are, but so are people in their 20s and 30s ;)

You are, but so are people in their 20s and 30s ;)

But they’re the age group who hates trap rap the most  ;)

You are, but so are people in their 20s and 30s ;)

So, did you watch the videos yet UltraDog? Would you agree that the makers started getting biased around 2007?

No. I don't think so. There are adolescents out there who don't like trap rap either.


I'm over the age of 40 and I don't like trap rap.

But they’re the age group who hates trap rap the most  ;)
More like 20+. They all hate trap rap ;).


I'm over the age of 40 and I don't like trap rap.
Same here.


So, did you watch the videos yet UltraDog? Would you agree that the makers started getting biased around 2007?
No, but l agree they were biased in those videos.

Same here.

So you're over 40 too?  :o Damn you're old  ;D

So you're over 40 too?  :o Damn you're old  ;D
No. I was agreeing with Howard that I don't like Trap rap either aside from a few songs.

No. I was agreeing with Howard that I don't like Trap rap either aside from a few songs.

I know. I was kidding lol

I know. I was kidding lol
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I should have known! ;)

When you really compare them...snap rap and trap rap aren't stylistically different. Both subgenres makes the lyrics terrible but the melody/beat is catchy.

Most rap songs from before 1998 were more about the lyrics than the beat but the beat was also important.

When will you watch em?
later on. I don't go on YouTube like I used to.

So, did you watch the videos yet UltraDog? Would you agree that the makers started getting biased around 2007?

No, they did not start getting biased.

The thing is no matter what people say trap rap is the most degrading and bad image of rap ever and its worse than snap rap in my opinion.

The thing is no matter what people say trap rap is the most degrading and bad image of rap ever and its worse than snap rap in my opinion.

That's subjective. If it really was that bad it wouldn't be dominating the charts right now ;)

So you're over 40 too?  :o Damn you're old  ;D


I'm going to be 44 in March.

That's subjective. If it was that bad, it wouldn't be dominating the charts right now ;)
Well, Snap rap was just as dominant and terrible; however, the difference between both of them is that Snap was exciting and people were able to dance to the beats. I can't see people dancing to Trap at all.

Well, Snap rap was just as dominant and terrible; however, the difference between both of them is that Snap was exciting and people were able to dance to the beats. I can't see people dancing to Trap at all.

Then maybe they should learn how to dance

Then maybe they should learn how to dance

Exactly ;D ;D

Well, Snap rap was just as dominant and terrible; however, the difference between both of them is that Snap was exciting and people were able to dance to the beats. I can't see people dancing to Trap at all.

Or if you can't see people dancing to trap then just open your eyes

Well, Snap rap was just as dominant and terrible; however, the difference between both of them is that Snap was exciting and people were able to dance to the beats. I can't see people dancing to Trap at all.

I'm not a huge fan of trap rap but this comment is not true at all ;D.

Then maybe they should learn how to dance



Or if you can't see people dancing to trap then just open your eyes
How can they dance if one can barely hear the lyrics?


I'm not a huge fan of trap rap, but this comment is not true at all ;D.
What do you mean?

How can they dance if one can barely hear the lyrics?

What do you mean?

What? ;D

Dancing has always been about the beat or melody since when is dancing about lyrics? ;D.

I'm pretty sure you can dance to the Macarena because of the beat NOT because of the lyrics. Most of us on here can't speak or understand Spanish but I bet that doesn't stop  us from dancing to the song. C'mon man ;D.

Trap rap is about the beat not lyrics.

What? ;D

Dancing has always been about the beat or melody since when is dancing about lyrics? ;D.

I'm pretty sure you can dance to the Macarena because of the beat NOT because of the lyrics. Most of us on here can't speak order understand Spanish but I bet that doesn't stop  us from dancing to the song. C'mon man ;D.

Trap rap is about the beat not lyrics.
Well, those beats are heavy and they don't have a dance tune to it while the snap rap ones were simple and did have a dance tune.

Well, those beats are heavy and they don't have a dance tune to it while the snap rap ones were simple and did have a dance tune.

Bruh, who cares if the beat is heavy? It's still a beat and obviously a lot of people like it and many people dance to it.

Bruh, who cares if the beat is heavy? It's still a beat, and obviously, a lot of people like it and many people dance to it.
Not really. Snap rap is more danceable than Trap.

Not really. Snap rap is more danceable than Trap.

That's just your opinion.

That's just your opinion.
I wouldn't think so ;). There are people who agree with me.

I wouldn't think so ;). There are people who agree with me.

Doesn't make it a fact ;)

I wouldn't think so ;). There are people who agree with me.



Doesn't make it a fact ;)

What Rainbowz said ;).

I wouldn't think so ;). There are people who agree with me.


I don't like Trap much either but, I seen some students dancing to Migos at this university college I occasionally go to.

Trap only passes with  these kids this gen or at least most of kids now :P

That's subjective. If it really was that bad it wouldn't be dominating the charts right now ;)
Naw homes trap is always talking about women and what they do with them,drugs,guns like 95% of the time and they don't even have good lyrics they repeat the same garbage over and over its not music its crazy people nowadays lost their minds.They all mumble its not fun its annoying and makes me feel dumb to listen to these mainstream fake rappers.Y'all know raps dead when a genre like trap can dominate it's a fact every other era of rap was about lyrics,current events but mixed in fun now its just all about the same damn stuff women,women,money,drugs,drugs,women,drugs,cars WTH.Someone gotta save rap RIP hip hop Now you see why the 2010s suck for music And nobody can deny that trap isn't about anything but dumbing down its listeners just like 75% of the music these days are.like this the first decade in awhile rock music isn't mainstream that should tell you music is becoming simple and stale.And the fact that we went from snap rap a not so good era of rap to a even worse type of rap which is trap only shows me people's music tastes are getting trashier not better and probably means we could be heading for more bad eras of rap hopefully not at this point rap can't get any worse than it is now let's be honest rappers can litteraly mumble and you cant hear them and people don't care people like ANYTHING now!!!???

I hope we improve our rap and hip hop tastes. And if you like trap good for you but I personally wonder how in the world its so good when they mumble talk about the most cliche and boring things all the time I think people forgot what good music could be and now the only time you can ever hear good music is underground these days that's kinda sad.Plus all the mainstream trap rappers sound the same.

I don't like Trap much either but, I seen some students dancing to Migos at this university college I occasionally go to.
Do you remember the songs they were dancing to?

Naw homes trap is always talking about women and what they do with them,drugs,guns like 95% of the time and they don't even have good lyrics they repeat the same garbage over and over its not music its crazy people nowadays lost their minds.They all mumble its not fun its annoying and makes me feel dumb to listen to these mainstream fake rappers.Y'all know raps dead when a genre like trap can dominate it's a fact every other era of rap was about lyrics,current events but mixed in fun now its just all about the same damn stuff women,women,money,drugs,drugs,women,drugs,cars WTH.Someone gotta save rap RIP hip hop Now you see why the 2010s suck for music And nobody can deny that trap isn't about anything but dumbing down its listeners just like 75% of the music these days are.like this the first decade in awhile rock music isn't mainstream that should tell you music is becoming simple and stale.And the fact that we went from snap rap a not so good era of rap to a even worse type of rap which is trap only shows me people's music tastes are getting trashier not better and probably means we could be heading for more bad eras of rap hopefully not at this point rap can't get any worse than it is now let's be honest rappers can litteraly mumble and you cant hear them and people don't care people like ANYTHING now!!!???

I hope we improve our rap and hip hop tastes. And if you like trap good for you but I personally wonder how in the world its so good when they mumble talk about the most cliche and boring things all the time I think people forgot what good music could be and now the only time you can ever hear good music is underground these days that's kinda sad.Plus all the mainstream trap rappers sound the same.

Why would rock not being mainstream mean anything? But you’re right, the lyrics are usually boring and dumb. But here’s the thing, not every song has to have some meaningful deep lyrics. Songs get popular because they’re catchy, and half the time people have no idea whatsoever what the singer is saying. I have no idea why people don’t seem to realize this.

Not really. Snap rap is more danceable than Trap.


old school rap is much more danceable than snap rap trap.

Why would rock not being mainstream mean anything? But you’re right, the lyrics are usually boring and dumb. But here’s the thing, not every song has to have some meaningful deep lyrics. Songs get popular because they’re catchy, and half the time people have no idea whatsoever what the singer is saying. I have no idea why people don’t seem to realize this.
umm your telling me we will only like a song and make it a hit because its catchy well okay then,but that won't move music any further than what it is now if we only make most songs hits cause there catchy because I'm not sure that is the way we should precieve most music as make it a hit cause its catchy you won't create classic songs like that.

old school rap is much more danceable than snap rap and trap.
You got that right! O0


Umm, you're telling me we will only like a song and make it a hit because it's catchy? Well okay then, but that won't move music any further than what it is now. If we only make most songs hits because there catchy, then I'm not sure that is the way we should perceive most music because you won't create classic songs like that.
This! While there are millions of songs that are catchy and all, it's the ones with meaningful content and lyrics that become classic in the end.

A good chunk of the commenters in the video have pointed out the BS. Soulja Boy does not represent 2007 Hip-hop at all. Neither do many of the other post-2006 "artists". Nobody even knew who gucci mane was back then, he is considered a 2010s rapper. Some of the pre-2006 song choices are questionable too in terms of their relevancy at the time.


Well, Snap rap was just as dominant and terrible; however, the difference between both of them is that Snap was exciting and people were able to dance to the beats. I can't see people dancing to Trap at all.

Last I checked, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Loyd Banks, The Game, Pharrell Williams, Mos-Def, Eminem, Lupe Fiasco, Common, Jay Z, Lil Wayne, Ludacris, Ghostface Killah, Twista, Fabolous, Jadakiss  TI, Pusha T, Wale, DJ Khalid, Rick Ross, Chamillionaire, K'naan and Drake weren't making snap rap.

Last I checked, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Loyd Banks, The Game, Pharrell Williams, Mos-Def, Eminem, Lupe Fiasco, Common, Jay Z, Lil Wayne, Ludacris, Ghostface Killah, Twista, Fabolous, Jadakiss  TI, Pusha T, Wale, DJ Khalid, Rick Ross, Chamillionaire, K'naan and Drake weren't making snap rap.
Yeah, that's true. However, snap rap was played more often here than non-snap hip hop, and it was inescapable. It sucked how it happened that way.

Yeah, that's true. However, snap rap was played more often here than non-snap hip hop, and it was inescapable. It sucked how it happened that way.

From what I've heard. Most of the "big" snap songs weren't that popular and certain didn't represent hiphop of the era.

In fact I'd say the single most dominant subgenre was probably crunk-influenced gangsta rap. It was still gangsta rap and still lyrical, but their beats sounded noticeably crunk.
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You got that right! O0
This! While there are millions of songs that are catchy and all, it's the ones with meaningful content and lyrics that become classic in the end.


I'd rather listen to Grandmaster Flash than someone singing with a bunch of marbles in his/her mouth! ::)

I'd rather listen to Grandmaster Flash than someone singing with a bunch of marbles in his/her mouth! ::)
yeah and most mainstream rappers and especially trap rappers sound like they have marbles in their mouths and it's really annoying.

The 2000s were a terrible decade for mainstream Hip Hop.....was there a good amount of quality? Yes, but let's not look at the decade through rose tinted glasses. It sucked....most of the popular stuff sucked....and if you don't see it that way, you were probably a kid during the 2000s and are blinded by nostalgia. I've been a Hip Hop fan since 1990 and I've enjoyed the 2010s much more than the 2000s (which isn't saying a whole lot, but.....it has been better IMO)


A good chunk of the commenters in the video have pointed out the BS. Soulja Boy does not represent 2007 Hip-hop at all. Neither do many of the other post-2006 "artists". Nobody even knew who gucci mane was back then, he is considered a 2010s rapper. Some of the pre-2006 song choices are questionable too in terms of their relevancy at the time.
Last I checked, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Loyd Banks, The Game, Pharrell Williams, Mos-Def, Eminem, Lupe Fiasco, Common, Jay Z, Lil Wayne, Ludacris, Ghostface Killah, Twista, Fabolous, Jadakiss  TI, Pusha T, Wale, DJ Khalid, Rick Ross, Chamillionaire, K'naan and Drake weren't making snap rap.


Gucci may not have been a household name to mainstream America, but he definitely was in within the genre of Hip Hop. He's absolutely a 2000s rapper to anyone who seriously listened to Hip Hop before 2009. I'd say todays equivalent to his success in the 2000s would be someone like Kevin Gates.....pretty much B-lister within the genre.


Looking strictly at the biggest names isn't going to give you a complete picture of an era.....the 2000s were dominated by R&B rap from 2000-2002, crunk rap from 2003-2006, and snap/ringtone rap from 2007-2009

The 2000s were a terrible decade for mainstream Hip Hop.....was there a good amount of quality? Yes, but let's not look at the decade through rose tinted glasses. It sucked....most of the popular stuff sucked....and if you don't see it that way, you were probably a kid during the 2000s and are blinded by nostalgia. I've been a Hip Hop fan since 1990 and I've enjoyed the 2010s much more than the 2000s (which isn't saying a whole lot, but.....it has been better IMO)

Gucci may not have been a household name to mainstream America, but he definitely was in within the genre of Hip Hop. He's absolutely a 2000s rapper to anyone who seriously listened to Hip Hop before 2009. I'd say todays equivalent to his success in the 2000s would be someone like Kevin Gates.....pretty much B-lister within the genre.


Looking strictly at the biggest names isn't going to give you a complete picture of an era.....the 2000s were dominated by R&B rap from 2000-2002, crunk rap from 2003-2006, and snap/ringtone rap from 2007-2009

Gucci was nowhere near B-list mainstream artists like Birdman, Jadakiss or Mani fresh. He was always that rapper that just existed in the game, like Wiz Khalifa. He got his start in the 00's but didn't catch on until the early 2010s. The early 00s was dominated by Gangsta rap, the mid 00s, by Crunk-influenced Gangsta rap(Crunk's wiki pages states that many southern songs are erroneously labeled as crunk even though they aren't), and late 00's by Alternative and electro rap. R&B was popular all the way through, in fact it was more popular in the late 00s. Snap was never big beyond Lil Jon and the occasional 1 hit wonder.

The 2000s were a terrible decade for mainstream Hip Hop.....was there a good amount of quality? Yes, but let's not look at the decade through rose tinted glasses. It sucked....most of the popular stuff sucked....and if you don't see it that way, you were probably a kid during the 2000s and are blinded by nostalgia. I've been a Hip Hop fan since 1990 and I've enjoyed the 2010s much more than the 2000s (which isn't saying a whole lot, but.....it has been better IMO)

Gucci may not have been a household name to mainstream America, but he definitely was in within the genre of Hip Hop. He's absolutely a 2000s rapper to anyone who seriously listened to Hip Hop before 2009. I'd say todays equivalent to his success in the 2000s would be someone like Kevin Gates.....pretty much B-lister within the genre.


Looking strictly at the biggest names isn't going to give you a complete picture of an era.....the 2000s were dominated by R&B rap from 2000-2002, crunk rap from 2003-2006, and snap/ringtone rap from 2007-2009
naw homes 2010s hip hop i s straight trash this trap era is terrible the 00s hip hop wasn't all that better but it was a little better than 2010s mainstream trash of rap.

Do you remember the songs they were dancing to?


They played Bad and Boujee by Migos, goosebumps, Travis Scott and I guess MotorSport since I heard a song with Nicki and Cardi B. I also recall a song by Gucci Mane.

yeah and most mainstream rappers and especially trap rappers sound like they have marbles in their mouths and it's really annoying.


That's why I say the hell with today's music! >:(

My main issue is a few of these things.

- Music isn't funky 
Hip Hop used to be funky and feet lifting. Now I feel like the rhythm sections within a hip hop song are just lacking. And I can't stand the beat of a Trap song. annoying hi hats and beats that sound too samey.

James Brown is said to be one one of the originators of funk back in the 60s. Here is a video of hip hop artists taking samples from his songs and reinventing them into funky hip hop tracks.
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- Reused themes
Why is it that all I hear in hip hop these past few years are just people talking about how hard life is, drugs, money, girls, crime etc? This has started several decades prior, but now it's all I hear on the radio now. This is probably a personal bias since I prefer more party upbeat music. Not music that keeps hammering the fact that life sucks and that only way to be satisfied is by messing with girls and consuming drugs.

I won't post a video since I don't wanna hear the crazy rap lyrics, but just turn on your radio and you'll see instantly.

- Feeding upon itself
In the oldschool hip hop, new school hip hop, new age hip hop, and early post-golden age hip hop the music didn't sound samey for a reason most overlook. You see back in the early 1970s - mid 2000s (although you can argue on the year span) the reason I think hip hop sounded different between tracks was because the artists were taking inspiration from a variety of sources. Artists who take inspiration from Funk, Soul, House, Big Band Swing, Jazz, Disco etc. This gave us tracks that would us a different sound most of the time. Nowadays all hip hop artists take inspiration from is other hip hop artists. Hip hop is feeding on itself. A trap artists took influence from another trap artist who did the same thing and now you have 3 songs that sound the same.

- Slowed down
Hip Hop used to be dance music, but now Hip Hop average BPM has fallen over the years. I'm not sure if it's because slow music is what the public wants or if it's due to the effects of weed/drugs like some like to joke about.

Sums up Hip Hop these days.
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I facepalm at each one of those videos.

Rap music is not Hip-Hop music! Hip-Hop music died in 1993. Kid 'N Play, The Sugarhill Gang, and JJ Fad are all Hip-Hop music artists, Kendrick Lamar is not. Hip-Hop music has breaks, beats, and scratches in it. The same cannot be said for rap music.

I facepalm at each one of those videos.

Rap music is not Hip-Hop music! Hip-Hop music died in 1993. Kid 'N Play, The Sugarhill Gang, and JJ Fad are all Hip-Hop music artists, Kendrick Lamar is not. Hip-Hop music has breaks, beats, and scratches in it. There were none in rap music.
Why are those songs before that year not considered rap? They were rapping just much as now, and there were breaks, beats, and scratches in those songs as well after that year.

I facepalm at each one of those videos.

Rap music is not Hip-Hop music! Hip-Hop music died in 1993. Kid 'N Play, The Sugarhill Gang, and JJ Fad are all Hip-Hop music artists, Kendrick Lamar is not. Hip-Hop music has breaks, beats, and scratches in it. The same cannot be said for rap music.


Rap music is about a way of life, singers sing about what's out there in the streets and they sing about it in the form of rhyming lyrics.

Well this is when we run into a bit of confusion between rap and hip hop.

Some say Rap is a music genre while Hip Hop is culture. While they're both true Hip Hop is also a form of music as well.

Early 90s guy of Hip Hop having breaks(samples), hip beats, scratches etc Rap on the other hand is slightly different. Yes, in Hip Hop you do have people rapping, but I think the difference is that in Hip Hop the rap lyrics are given equal focus with the musical beat. In Rap music the Rapping is given more focus as the musical beat elements aren't given the same treatment as hip hop.

Early 90s guy says Hip Hop died in 1993. I'm not sure if he says because the golden age of Hip Hop had ended in around 1993 or if because Gangsta Rap was forming in late '92 and from '93 onward because the dominate form of Hip Hop. Gangsta Rap in my opinion is the dominate form of Hip Hop/Rap as you still hear it today. The stuff you hear on the radio now is more closer to Gangsta Rap than Hip Hop.

I quote I read up on.
Hip-hop culture is heavily influenced by the beat-box style of yesteryears. Artists like Sugarhill Gang, Fab 5 Freddy, and Kurtis Blow, and so many more just like them, sang in upbeat, assured tones that told people to get on up and dance to their music. The messages were largely positive, ballads with a happy, optimistic ending.

On the other hand, rap was and still is more concerned with what is going on in popular culture. Renowned rap stars like Eminem, and Kanye regularly rap about the prevalence of crime, political issues that they disagree with, or general elements of irregularity among the professed leaders of this nation.

My answers aren't 100% correct answers. Just stuff I've noticed.  In my last post I've complained about how rap centers on crime, issues and other stuff. All of this mainly started becoming big around the time Gangsta Rap was created. Now Gangsta Rap was originally just a sub genre of Hip Hop, but as time moved on eventually became the dominant form of Hip Hop changing the sound and characteristics of the genre. Now Hip Hop was less about Beats, scratches, using sampled breaks from older genres, being upbeat etc. Now it's has a more darker tone, slower beats, concerned about the latest thing in pop culture, and more focus on the rap than the beats.

So if Hip Hop music Rap music? Originally yes and no. Old Hip Hop had rap, but rap was just a piece of everything else within the song. Now? Yes as the rapping soon gained more focus over the other elements within the genre. I've always questioned by modern Hip Hop sounded different from old Hip Hop. This is because Modern Hip Hop isn't exactly "Hip Hop" in the same way that old Hip Hop was Hip Hop since Modern Hip Hop is really modern day Gangster Rap and not the same kind of Hip Hop that existed from the 1970s to early 1990s.

An example are genres like Lofi Hip Hop. It's called Lofi "Hip Hop" and not Lofi "Rap" and usually likes to put emphasis on beats. Rarely ever do you see actual rapping in Lofi Hip Hop. Although I will stress that weird fact that a lot of us (me included) tend to use Rap and Hip Hop interchangeably for some reason.


This is all I have to offer. Truth be told none of us are 100% correct. This debate has been going on for a while with no real clear answer.

Why are those songs before that year not considered rap?


There is a good flow to the songs performed by those artists. You could actually dance to them. The same cannot be said for rap music.

There is a good flow to the songs performed by those artists. You could actually dance to them. The same cannot be said for rap music.


This is kinda true.

“I think the element of hip-hop left when rap music started being created on a slow tempo…It’s just stayed there for years. Right now, a lot of rap music today is being created at very low tempos. There’s no more of that ‘wave your hands in the air like you just don’t care’ – you know, something that makes you wanna get out there and breakdance…Rap music has lost that element right now, mainly over in America. There’s not too many great hip-hop records out there, but there are some great rap records.”

- Flavor Flav

Even the artists of Public Enemy see Hip Hop was more upbeat dance able music and think that the tracks have gotten slower to the point you can't dance to them. There are good Rap tracks, but not good Hip Hop tracks anymore as the characteristics found in Hip Hop have faded and replaced by Rap centered  characteristics. 

There is a good flow of the songs performed by those artists. You could dance to them. People can't dance to rap music.
Well, there are lots of dance hip-hop songs from the 90s, 00s and even today. To say that there's none is plain ignorance.


Well, this is when we run into a bit of confusion between rap and hip-hop.

Some say Rap is a music genre while Hip Hop is culture. While they're both correct, Hip Hop is also a form of music as well.

Early 90s guy of Hip Hop having breaks(samples), hip beats, scratches, etc. Rap, on the other hand, is slightly different. Yes, in Hip Hop you do have people rapping, but I think the difference is that in Hip Hop the rap lyrics are given equal focus with the musical beat. In Rap music, the rapping is given more emphasis as the musical beat elements.

The Early 90s guy says Hip Hop died in 1993. I'm not sure if he means because the golden age of Hip Hop had ended in around 1993 or if because Gangsta Rap was forming in late '92 and from '93 onward because of the dominant form of Hip Hop. Gangsta Rap, in my opinion, is the dominant form of Hip Hop/Rap as you still hear it today. The stuff you hear on the radio now is closer to Gangsta Rap than Hip-Hop.

A quote that I read. My answers aren't 100% correct answers. Just stuff I've noticed.  In my last post, I've complained about how rap centers on crime, issues, and other stuff. All of this mainly started becoming big around the time Gangsta Rap formed. Now Gangsta Rap was initially just a sub-genre of Hip Hop, but as time moved on eventually became the dominant form of Hip Hop changing the sound and characteristics of the genre. Now Hip Hop was less about Beats, scratches, using sampled breaks from old styles, being upbeat, etc. Now it's has a darker tone, slower beats, concerned about the latest thing in pop culture, and more focus on the rap than the rhythm.

So is Hip Hop music Rap music? Originally yes and no. Old Hip Hop had rap, but rap was just a piece of everything else within the song. Now? Yes as the rapping soon gained more focus on the other elements of the genre. I've always questioned why modern Hip Hop sounded different from old Hip-Hop. That is because Modern Hip Hop isn't precisely "Hip Hop" in the same way that early Hip Hop was Hip Hop since Modern Hip Hop is modern day Gangster Rap and not the same kind of Hip Hop that existed from the 1970s to early 1990s.

An example is genres like Lofi Hip Hop. It's called Lofi "Hip Hop" and not Lofi "Rap" and usually likes to emphasize beats. You rarely ever hear actual rapping in Lofi Hip Hop. I stress the fact that a lot of us (me included) tend to use Rap and Hip Hop interchangeably for some reason.

These quotes are all I have to offer. Truth tells that none of us is 100% correct. This debate has been going on for a while with no real clear answer.
Yeah, you and the others who say that are right. Hip-hop is both, and those who deny that fact are incorrect.

Well, that's where he's wrong. There are lots of songs Hip-Hop post-1993 that focus on the beats rather than the flow of rapping. He just wants to be ignorant.

As for Gangsta Rap, that sub-genre formed under Ice-T and NWA who made controversial tracks during its early days about crime, police treatment in the black community, etc. Oh, and I wouldn't say all today's Hip-Hop is gangsta rap. There are artists out there who dedicate themselves to provide Hip-Hop to an audience without resorting to the Gangsta lifestyle.

Yeah, you and the others who say that are right. Hip-hop is both, and those who deny that fact are incorrect.

Well, that's where he's wrong. There are lots of songs Hip-Hop post-1993 that focus on the beats rather than the flow of rapping. He just wants to be ignorant.

As for Gangsta Rap, that sub-genre formed under Ice-T and NWA who made controversial tracks during its early days about crime, police treatment in the black community, etc. Oh, and I wouldn't say all today's Hip-Hop is gangsta rap. There are artists out there who dedicate themselves to provide Hip-Hop to an audience without resorting to the Gangsta lifestyle.


You're not wrong. Not ALL Hip Hop is Gangsta Rap. That wad just me doing a poor generalization. A more accurate thing would be that a lot of stuff you hear on the radio is Gangsta Rap, but as you already know the Radio only plays a small chunk of specific kind of tracks. To find modern non-Gangsta Rap influenced Hip Hop you'd have to look on online sites like Youtube, Soundcloud, or Bandcamp. Buy CDs Hip Hop music that you'd probably haven't heard on the radio (since the Radio is often a terrible way to really get an understanding of a certain kind of music anyways), OR you'd have to go onto some indie/obscure radio station that plays a lot of the lesser known Hip Hop tracks.

Basically all of these ways require you to actually look for the more unique and original stuff. If you bother with mainstream radio you'll just run into Gangsta Rap and Trap Rap. Issue is that the songs found on the radio are only a small percent of what exactly exists. For example lets say 1000 Hip Hop songs released this year. You'll only hear about <150 of those songs play on radio.

Well, there are lots of dance hip-hop songs from the 90s, 00s and even today. To say that there's none is plain ignorance.


Can you name a few of these Hip-Hop songs from '93 to today for me?

You're not wrong. Not ALL Hip Hop is Gangsta Rap. That was just me making a poor generalization. A more accurate thing would be that a lot of stuff you hear on the radio is Gangsta Rap, but as you already know the Radio only plays a small chunk of specific kind of tracks. To find modern non-Gangsta Rap influenced Hip Hop you'd have to look on online sites like Youtube, Soundcloud, or Bandcamp. You can also buy CDs Hip Hop music that you'd probably haven't heard on the radio. (since the Radio is often a terrible way to get an understanding of a certain kind of music anyway), OR you'd have to go onto some indie/obscure radio station that plays a lot of the lesser known Hip Hop tracks.

All of these ways require you actually to look for the more unique and original stuff. If you bother with the mainstream radio, you'll just run into Gangsta Rap and Trap Rap. The issue is that the songs found on the radio are only a small percent of what exactly exists. For example, let's say 1000 Hip Hop songs released this year. You'll only hear about <150 of those songs played on the radio.
No worries man. You were just explaining what the sources stated instead of going off without any research as some others do. I wouldn't say you made a poor generalization though except for the modern hip-hop part.

You are right though. The radio is not a good indicator since it does not play every song out there. Luckily for us, we can find modern non-Gangsta Rap with those sources you mentioned, go to mixtape sites or use Pandora/Spotify.


Can you name a few of these Hip-Hop songs from '93 to today for me?
Yes. I can.

- Whoomp! There it is
- Tootsie Roll
- Let me Clear my Throat
- Getting Jiggy Wit It
- Cha-Cha Slide
- Crank That
- Whip Nae-Nae

I facepalm at each one of those videos.

Rap music is not Hip-Hop music! Hip-Hop music died in 1993. Kid 'N Play, The Sugarhill Gang, and JJ Fad are all Hip-Hop music artists, Kendrick Lamar is not. Hip-Hop music has breaks, beats, and scratches in it. The same cannot be said for rap music.


Hip Hop is the culture, Rap is the music. All Rap is Hip Hop.....what you're describing is 70s, 80s, and 90s Hip Hop culture....the music today is a part of 2010s Hip Hop culture. Times change and things evolve. That doesn't mean you can just call it something else just because it's not exactly how is was 20 years ago

Hip Hop is the culture, Rap is the music. All Rap is Hip Hop.....what you're describing is 70s, 80s, and 90s Hip Hop culture....the music today is a part of 2010s Hip Hop culture. Times change and things evolve. That doesn't mean you can just call it something else just because it's not exactly how is was 20 years ago
no offense but to me most rap is devolving because its becoming more simpler and trap style and boring than any other rap era it's a fact most people only care about the rap beats now that's why rap can't evolve into something better. :\'

Yes. I can.

- Whoomp! There it is
- Tootsie Roll
- Let me Clear my Throat
- Getting Jiggy Wit It
- Cha-Cha Slide
- Crank That
- Whip Nae-Nae


Those are all party rap songs.

Those are all party rap songs.
Well, there were party rap songs before that year too, and there were hip hop sings emphasized on the beats and scratches after that year as well. You just want to be ignorant, don't you? ::)

Well, there were party rap songs before that year too

I never said there wasn't.  ???

and there were hip hop songs emphasized on the beats and scratches after that year as well.


They were all underground past '93.

I never said there wasn't.  ???

They were all underground songs past '93.
You asked for dance hip-hop songs from the 90s, 00s and even today right? I gave you some. Then, you said they were party rap tracks. What's the difference to you?

Nah, not really. That may be the case, but there were mainstream emphasized beats and scratch hip-hop songs after that year.

You asked for dance hip-hop songs from the 90s, 00s and even today right? I gave you some. Then, you said they were party rap tracks. What's the difference to you?

Party rap has absolutely no artistic or creative merit whatsoever. Hip-Hop music goes along with the culture of breakdancing, graffiti, beat-mixing DJs, and rapping emcees. To put it plainly, Hip-Hop music came from the streets and from the hearts of Hip-Hop artists, not the music industry.

That may be the case, but there were mainstream emphasized beats and scratch hip-hop songs after that year.


Can you give me examples, please?

Yeah, the URL looks like a cheezy listicle.

http://www.complex.com/music/the-best-rapper-alive-every-year-since-1979

It's not.  These guys did their research. For 37 years, they wrote an essay for every year, and explained their choice versus other notable contenders.

Specifically, they covered the 1989-1991 shift to gangsta.  And the 1994-5 shift to BIG/2Pac/WuTang.  And the early-2000s shift back to emphasis on rhyme/lyricism.  But I digress.  Drop everything you're doing, set aside an hour or two, and page through the linked article.  Most of the YouTube links in the text are still live.  You will find some tracks you didn't hear and whose significance you didn't recognize.  (You'll also rediscover some gems you knew and loved, and whose significance you also didn't recognize at the time.)

They played Bad and Boujee by Migos, goosebumps, Travis Scott and I guess MotorSport since I heard a song with Nicki and Cardi B. I also recall a song by Gucci Mane.
The first one I could see people dance to, but the other three? Not at all. Those don't sound like dance songs.


Party rap has absolutely no artistic or creative merit whatsoever. Hip-Hop music goes along with the culture of breakdancing, graffiti, beat-mixing DJs, and rapping emcees. To put it plainly Hip-Hop music came from the streets and the hearts of Hip-Hop artists, not the music industry.

Can you give me examples, please?
So I guess you don't count mixtapes then because those come from the hearts of Hip-Hop artists.

Here are some more

- Whoomp! There it is
- Tootsie Roll
- Let me Clear my Throat
- Getting Jiggy Wit It
- Cha-Cha Slide
- Crank That
- Da Dip
- Up Jumps Da Boogie
- Front, Back & Side to Side
- Come on N' Ride It
- The Cupid Shuffle
- Hey Ya
- Stanky Legg
- Party Rock Anthem
- You're a Jerk
- Teach Me How to Dougie
- Uptown Funk
- Cat Daddy
- One Dance
- Turn Down For What
- Tipsy
- The Way You Move
- Watch Me
- Chicken Noodle Soup

I typed in Hip-hop dance songs, and all of them appeared in the results. The artists may be rapping in the songs, but there's also an emphasis on the beats and people are dancing to them as well.

Used to be when you heard a god hip-hop or rap song, it was some great rhymes, talking about b*tches and hoes, smoking blunts and drinking 40's.

Now all you've got is nonsense about drinking cough syrup or some ode to "shorty".  ::)

Used to be when you heard a god hip-hop or rap song, it was some great rhymes, talking about b*tches and hoes, smoking blunts and drinking 40's.

Now all you've got is nonsense about drinking cough syrup or some ode to "shorty".  ::)


rap was also all about just good party music.

rap was also all about just good party music.

True. MCing is much older and more grassroots than more "lyrical" hiphop.

This hip hop song is LIT
PEGccV-NOm8

This hip hop song is LIT
PEGccV-NOm8

AYYY I LOVE THAT SONG TOO

This hip hop song is LIT
PEGccV-NOm8


I'm sorry but what the hell is she singing? ???

I'm sorry but what the hell is she singing? ???

Words ;)

Here are some more

- Whoomp! There it is
- Tootsie Roll
- Let me Clear my Throat
- Getting Jiggy Wit It
- Cha-Cha Slide
- Crank That
- Da Dip
- Up Jumps Da Boogie
- Front, Back & Side to Side
- Come on N' Ride It
- The Cupid Shuffle
- Hey Ya
- Stanky Legg
- Party Rock Anthem
- You're a Jerk
- Teach Me How to Dougie
- Uptown Funk
- Cat Daddy
- One Dance
- Turn Down For What
- Tipsy
- The Way You Move
- Watch Me
- Chicken Noodle Soup

I typed in Hip-hop dance songs, and all of them appeared in the results. The artists may be rapping in the songs, but there's also an emphasis on the beats and people are dancing to them as well.


Those are all pop rap songs. I was looking for real Hip-hop songs released after '92.

Well, there were party rap songs before that year too, and there were hip hop sings emphasized on the beats and scratches after that year as well. You just want to be ignorant, don't you? ::)

Hey Dog, did you get the chance to watch the videos I linked yet? Surely you've gotten the time to by now.

Words ;)


What I mean is that I can't understand her, it's like she's singing with marbles in her mouth.  ::)

Interestingly, in both of these videos, hip hop is awesome from 1979-Early 2006, but suddenly becomes very cringey and bad during Late 2006-2017. I think the creator of these videos might be a believer in the late 2006 shift. ;D (j/k ;) )

See the shifts for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrqDFDEJMmU#t=20m35s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWKlPIqv1I4#t=20m35s

Those are all pop-rap songs. I was looking for real Hip-hop songs released after '92.
Well, I tried to reason with you considering those are all the songs I found online concerning hip-hop and don't focus on the rapping emphasis. You just want to be ignorant, don't you? ::)

Interestingly, in both of these videos, hip hop is awesome from 1979-Early 2006, but suddenly becomes very cringey and bad during Late 2006-2017. I think the creator of these videos might be a believer in the late 2006 shift. ;D (j/k ;) )

See the shifts for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrqDFDEJMmU#t=20m35s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWKlPIqv1I4#t=20m35s

Also, funny enough, in the first video, 2/3rd of the songs the video maker chose for 2007 were sh*t, but in the second video, all of the 2007 songs are pretty good.

My apologizes to all reading this thread. I made a mistake earlier when I said hip-hop music died in 1992. Hip-hop music was only produced in the ‘70s and ‘80s. Rap emerged in the late ‘80s, and still going strong today.