Inspired by a similar thread created:


http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=56006.0

I was wondering about what other pop cultural effects have you noticed have changed, or are in the process of changing as we continue to enter balls deep into the 'Trump era'?

One aspect, which is in response of the creation of this thread, is a change in televsion. Now bare with me, I think that many of the core 10's TV staples (particularly more nihilistic and cynical TV programming) are here to stay for a few more years, most notably shows like The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. However, Game of Thrones is already set to end sometime in 2018 or 2019, plus (at least based on having friends who are fans of The Walking Dead) it seems like The Walking Dead is starting to run its course. Already we've seen the end of some iconic 10's TV series like Mike & Molly, Two Broke Girls, Last Man Standing, The Vampire Diaries, Girls, Comminity, Glee among other shows. And we know that other iconic 10's shows like Scandal and The Middle are set to end this upcoming 2017-2018 season.

Most of these shows I mentioned are products of The 'Obama Era'. Many of these shows IMHO could've only really have been produced in that era between the more bohemian and hipster influenced shows (obviously targeted at Millennials ;D) like Girls and Glee, to the more somber and humble sitcoms like Mike & Molly and The Middle. These shows represents a sense of humility, sanctity, and meekness, along with also being pretty liberal politically (particularly shows catered to Millennials). This was perhaps because of the effects of the Great Recession which ushered in a sense of malaise, but also with the rise of the first Black president ushered in a sense of hope for a better future.

Right now, though, it seems like we're starting to turn away from those concepts and seem to be entering a more 'American centric' culture in TV. What do I mean? Well read this article from TV Guide and you'll see what I mean:



https://www.google.com/amp/www.tvguide.com/amp/news/trump-tv-religion-military-fall-2017-2018/



Also these other articles:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/podcasts/what-tv-should-we-watch-in-the-trump-era-emily-nussbaum-has-some-ideas.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.artsjournal.com/2017/07/were-approaching-a-major-turning-point-in-trump-era-pop-culture.html/amp

http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/were-approaching-a-turning-point-in-trump-era-pop-culture.html

https://www.google.com/amp/fox6now.com/2017/01/27/how-donald-trump-has-already-shifted-pop-culture/amp/


And of course the article from the Taylor Swift thread that inspired this topic:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/08/31/trump_and_taylor_swift_s_look_what_you_made_me_do.html





Basically the jist of the first article (and much of the other articles have similar statements) is that Trump's effects in TV (pop culture and American society in general) are starting to take effect in pop culture and rather than other aspects of pop culture (I.E., Music & more specifically, many comedy/Late Night TV shows that epitomize the resistance against the ideals of Trump) most TV shows coming onto the scene in the 2017-2018 season (primarily from legacy networks) are conforming to the values of the Trump era, not repelling against it.

Here's a few tv shows that represent that shift and the broadcast networks they'll be represented on (for all intense and purposes I'll be using the channels names that used for the NY area where I'm from, so if you get confused beware).:


CBS 2:

S.E.A.L Team

S.W.A.T

Young Sheldon

Me, Myself, & I

By The Book



NBC 4:

The Brave



ABC 7:

The Good Doctor

For The People

The Mayor

Kevin (Probably) Saves The World



CW 11:

Valor

Dynasty


All of these shows I mentioned seems to signal a more right-wing 'family values' shift in TV, particularly on legacy networks. Between shows like The Good Doctor and For The People that seems to be marketed towards a new generation of young urban professionals (perhaps we should call these people 'Muppies'!? ;D. Millennial, Urban Professionalss). Or the more blatant militaristic propaganda TV shows like SEAL Team and Valor. And shows that bring the lighthearted side of religion like Kevin (Probably) Saves The World and By The Book, seem to signal that many TV producers are realizing the true effects of the rise of Trumpism across the country. Heck many TV producers now feel that the show The Middle came out too early due to the premise of middle-class Midwestern WASP family trying to live day-by-day would've worked MUCH better in the ratings and social consciousness of most Americans due to the mass amounts of blue collar workers that voted for Trump (aka Trump democrats). Heck even the fact that the CW is rebooting the 80's classic Dynasty, a show that was a product of the gaudy Right wing and prosperous 'Reagan Era', says a lot since their has been a lot of comparisons with the Reagan & Trump presidencies. If history proves right, this is just further evidence of things changing in television, particularly in a more pro capitalist, religious, or military/statisism, environment.


Of course the rise in popularity of Netflix & Hulu is something to reckon, legacy networks still have a decent amount of influence on pop culture and most notably the media and how people perceive the world. Let's see if these shows do well in the ratings, if they do, then expect more networks try and compete with more shows that appeal more to a right wing audience.

Honestly, none of these shows seem to really hold a candle to the usual Netflix/Amazon Prime Video/HBO flicks that continue to reign supreme in popularity. I'm sure the ignorant screwballs who brought Trump to the White House will eat up these white bread Americana programs like cake, but considering how overwhelmingly uncool Trump is with the adolescent crowd and even a good chunk of the more middle-aged population, don't expect popular culture to truly embrace Trumpism to the degree these people expect.

Honestly, none of these shows seem to really hold a candle to the usual Netflix/Amazon Prime Video/HBO flicks that continue to reign supreme in popularity. I'm sure the ignorant screwballs who brought Trump to the White House will eat up these white bread Americana programs like cake, but considering how overwhelmingly uncool Trump is with the adolescent crowd and even a good chunk of the more middle-aged population, don't expect popular culture to truly embrace Trumpism to the degree these people expect.


That's exactly what I was thinking. The old school producers and broadcasters seem to be skewing more towards the right-wing/corporate route in programming. I mean these are corporations after all, so a lot of these guys may hold more liberal views on social issues, but more conservative views on economic issues. So what is being shown to the masses, in a way is a reflection of that.

However, Netflix, Amazon, & Hulu seem to be the places to be to continue to watch quality entertainment, and I think that its just going to expedite as streaming becomes more accessible and popular. As of now shows like Orange Is The New Black, House of Cards, Stranger Things, and The Walking Dead remain very popular, and they seem to be much more critical of the status quo then the subsequent shows that are making their debuts on many broadcast networks this autumn. As of now, I haven't seen much evidence of a more Trumpism effect on networks like Netflix, Amazon, or Hulu. As I've stated before, if these new shows on broadcast networks become popular, this may bring forth a full effect on all media, but we'll have to wait and see.

A Handmaid's Tale, on Hulu, is the quintessential serial drama for the Trump era.

Eh not really. TV producers for the most part don't care about Trump.

A Handmaid's Tale, on Hulu, is the quintessential serial drama for the Trump era.


I haven't seen it, but I've heard good things about it! From what I do know, it does perfectly represent the idea of a ultra-conservative Christian Theocracy that many people will be disenfranchised of, in particular women. It goes to show how many tv shows on streaming services seem to be against conforming to the Trump era, and this show seems to be a perfect example of that.

Do you guys sense a stronger countercultural presence rising?

Eh not really. TV producers for the most part don't care about Trump.


Dude did you not read the articles I posted? TV producers number one motive is making money, doesn't matter what their personal moral/political compass is. They see a massive political shift in the country, so they're gonna run to it. Be it if the shows are gonna criticize the political culture or legitimize the political culture, they're gonna try and capitalize on it. It seems that, though, they're a lot of new scripted TV shows on legacy networks that seem to be conforming into the new culture. While new scripted TV shows on streaming/premium networks seem to be repelling against the new culture.

Dude did you not read the articles I posted? TV producers number one motive is making money, doesn't matter what their personal moral/political compass is. They see a massive political shift in the country, so they're gonna run to it. Be it if the shows are gonna criticize the political culture or legitimize the political culture, they're gonna try and capitalize on it. It seems that, though, they're a lot of new scripted TV shows on legacy networks that seem to be conforming into the new culture. While new scripted TV shows on streaming/premium networks seem to be repelling against the new culture.

You really think that they care that much about Trump? Well...whatever...we'll see.

You really think that they care that much about Trump? Well...whatever...we'll see.


Dude of course not. But I'm talking about mainly the overall mood of the country, which Trump (and many other political figures on both sides) ushered in. Shows like A Handmaids Tale are already criticizing the overtly religious aspects of our society, particularly dogma spawned by many right-wing evangelicals. However on the flip side, the major 'big 4 networks' (at least for the time being) are taking the opposite approach and are trying to appease to these re-emerged values in a sense.

Once again, these executives are just trying to reach their bottom line, and paying attention to the political climate to discern how the American people feel is a way for them to capitalize on that. Its not a coincidence that you've seen an increase in popularity of political satire/Late Night TV shows like The Late Show With Stephen Colbert or Full Frontal With Samantha Bee, as is its not a coincidence that starting this 2017-2018 TV season you're going to start to see more wartime dramas like Valor or SEAL Team.

Will these new shows do well? Well I have to agree with you that we'll have to see.

Dude of course not. But I'm talking about mainly the overall mood of the country, which Trump (and many other political figures on both sides) ushered in. Shows like A Handmaids Tale are already criticizing the overtly religious aspects of our society, particularly dogma spawned by many right-wing evangelicals. However on the flip side, the major 'big 4 networks' (at least for the time being) are taking the opposite approach and are trying to appease to these re-emerged values in a sense.

Once again, these executives are just trying to reach their bottom line, and paying attention to the political climate to discern how the American people feel is a way for them to capitalize on that. Its not a coincidence that you've seen an increase in popularity of political satire/Late Night TV shows like The Late Show With Stephen Colbert or Full Frontal With Samantha Bee, as is its not a coincidence that starting this 2017-2018 TV season you're going to start to see more wartime dramas like Valor or SEAL Team.

Will these new shows do well? Well I have to agree with you that we'll have to see.

The Handmaid's Tale was produced in 2016 before Trump became Prez and we've known about the insanity of (most) Evangelical Christians since the 1980s.

However, I agree with you to a point.

Eugh. That list of scripted shows is depressing. I think I will stick to my Netflix, thank you very much (and maybe cancel my cable subscription while I'm at it...why pay the extra money for such schlock?).


prosperous 'Reagan Era'


Hey, '80s people, correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that this was just a bit of clever revisionist history by Republicans? I'd heard it said the '80s were actually terrible and the economy didn't get on course until Bush Sr. increased taxes (and its effects not even felt till under Clinton). If anyone is able and/or willing to confirm or deny this, I'd be utterly thankful.


The Handmaid's Tale was produced in 2016 before Trump became Prez and we've known about the insanity of (most) Evangelical Christians since the 1980s.


Well yes, by 2016 everyone knew Trump was in the running and pretty much what he stood for. At least those with a brain did.

Eugh. That list of scripted shows is depressing. I think I will stick to my Netflix, thank you very much (and maybe cancel my cable subscription while I'm at it...why pay the extra money for such schlock?).


Ehh some look interesting like Me, Myself, & I and Valor. But other than that, most do seem pretty cookie cutter. Netflix is dope though! I can't wait for season 2 of Stranger Things next month :D.


Hey, '80s people, correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that this was just a bit of clever revisionist history by Republicans? I'd heard it said the '80s were actually terrible and the economy didn't get on course until Bush Sr. increased taxes (and its effects not even felt till under Clinton). If anyone is able and/or willing to confirm or deny this, I'd be utterly thankful.


The 80's were a time of excess, but similar to the 20's, the effects of the decade's 'roaring economy' were mostly negative. The stock market boomed, taxes were relatively low (well at least for the rich), and the GDP Growth exploded along with production of goods. However, income inequality widened, wages stagnated, and the deficit rose immensely.

Once again, very similar to the 20's in which the economic policies of the decade were good with those in the upper-middle class bracket and over, and thus was shortsighted by the longterm economic prospects of the country.


Well yes, by 2016 everyone knew Trump was in the running and pretty much what he stood for. At least those with a brain did.


Pretty much. By the Spring of 2016, with Trump leading safely in the primaries, it became safe to say that he was a viable contender in the election.

Well yes, by 2016 everyone knew Trump was in the running and pretty much what he stood for. At least those with a brain did.

Yes but most people didn't think he was going to win...so stop trying to be a smart Alec towards me.


Pretty much. By the Spring of 2016, with Trump leading safely in the primaries, it became safe to say that he was a viable contender in the election.

Yes but once again...almost nobody thought that he was going to win. What if Hillary won....huh? The Handmaid's Tale would still be on Netflix would you say that the show is a reflection of "Hillary Clinton's America"?

Nobody is trying to be smart with you, but I apologize if I came off that way. But no, if Trump had not won the nomination or the election, THT would be regarded probably as a sophisticated and high-quality show but not much more (and, indeed, in decided dissonance with the national mood if Hillary had won). However, given that most people knew what Trump was and what he stood for, it gained currency as a warning of what could be.

In other words, he didn't have to win for THT to stand as a comment on the general direction in which much of the public feared our nation was heading.

Yes but most people didn't think he was going to win...so stop trying to be a smart Alec towards me.
Yes but once again...almost nobody thought that he was going to win. What if Hillary won....huh? The Handmaid's Tale would still be on Netflix would you say that the show is a reflection of "Hillary Clinton's America"?


"Almost nobody thought he was going to win". Dude please tell me your joking. Maybe back in 2015 when he first announced his candidacy, I could see you point. But by early 2016 when he started winning most of the primaries and leading in the polls, it was clear that he had a reasonable chance of becoming president, despite how outlandish he portrayed himself.

Also, I think the fact that the show came out in 2016 proves my point of how it was a reflection of the growing reactionary attitude within the right wing in America at the time. The fact that Trump won in Late 2016 further proved the point of the show that a ethnic right wing Christian Saudi Arabia isn't as far fetched as one may have theorized say just a few years ago.

Even if Hillary Clinton won the election, I would still think it would've been an accurate depiction of what 'Clinton's America' would've been due to the rising polarizing nature in politics in recent years. It just so happens that the ideology that he show criticsizes actually won in the election, and The GOP now controls the White House, The Legislative Branch, The Judicial Branch, and most State governments.

Nobody is trying to be smart with you, but I apologize if I came off that way. But no, if Trump had not won the nomination or the election, THT would be regarded probably as a sophisticated and high-quality show but not much more (and, indeed, in decided dissonance with the national mood if Hillary had won). However, given that most people knew what Trump was and what he stood for, it gained currency as a warning of what could be.

In other words, he didn't have to win for THT to stand as a comment on the general direction in which much of the public feared our nation was heading.

OK, I see your point and the basis of your statement.

However, not every TV show is a commentary on the current political situation. I could definitely be wrong though on The Handmaid's Tale. I just think that The Handmaid's Tale came out at a very convenient time.

Not every TV show sets out to be a commentary on its political surroundings but I firmly believe all art and entertainment, whether intended or not, becomes a reflection of that political and social moment in history. Also I think many people's politics are informed by the entertainment they consume - I blame movies of the '70s and '80s for in no small part feeding the anti-big government reactionism of Baby Boomers.

All that being said, THT is adapted from a book by a prominent feminist, so I believe it did set out to be political from its inception.

Not every TV show sets out to be a commentary on its political surroundings but I firmly believe all art and entertainment, whether intended or not, becomes a reflection of that political and social moment in history. Also I think many people's politics are informed by the entertainment they consume - I blame movies of the '70s and '80s for in no small part feeding the anti-big government reactionism of Baby Boomers.
I definitely agree especially on the last part about Baby Boomers.


All that being said, THT is adapted from a book by a prominent feminist, so I believe it did set out to be political from its inception.

The book, The Handmaid's Tale is from 1985...so maybe you can say that it was a reaction to the rise of the Christian Right to due to the Presidency of the conservative Ronald Reagan.

The Handmaid's Tale was produced in 2016 before Trump became Prez and we've known about the insanity of (most) Evangelical Christians since the 1980s.

However, I agree with you to a point.


It was written in the 1980s as a reflection of what the author feared as people such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were rising to prominence and heavily influencing the Reagan administration.  Today under Trump, the far right evangelicals are the most powerful that they've been since Reagan was President.

I do think A Handmaid's Tale is a reflection of the direction that far right evangelicals want to take us.  While the idea of women being sex slaves is far fetched and is unlikely to happen, I really worry about severe oppression of anyone who isn't white, straight, male, and fundamentalist Christian in our future.  There are numerous powerful voices in our country such as Franklin Graham, Tony Perkins, Bryan Fischer, Jim Bakker, Rick Wiles, etc who want to take us there.

It was written in the 1980s as a reflection of what the author feared as people such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were rising to prominence and heavily influencing the Reagan administration.  Today under Trump, the far right evangelicals are the most powerful that they've been since Reagan was President.

I do think A Handmaid's Tale is a reflection of the direction that far right evangelicals want to take us.  While the idea of women being sex slaves is far fetched and is unlikely to happen, I really worry about severe oppression of anyone who isn't white, straight, male, and fundamentalist Christian in our future.  There are numerous powerful voices in our country such as Franklin Graham, Tony Perkins, Bryan Fischer, Jim Bakker, Rick Wiles, etc who want to take us there.


I already said that:

The book, The Handmaid's Tale is from 1985...so maybe you can say that it was a reaction to the rise of the Christian Right to due to the Presidency of the conservative Ronald Reagan.

We'll definitely be seeing a lot more anti-Trump movies/TV shows, but I don't think it will be seen until 2018.

The producers of Game of Thrones want to make Confederate, a drama where the South won the Civil War and black people are still enslaved, and supposedly takes place in the 2010s. Amazon wants to make Black America, a drama where black people get their own country which thrives, and the "white America" declines (presumably because Trump or Goldwater wins in a landslide  ;D).

We'll definitely be seeing a lot more anti-Trump movies/TV shows, but I don't think it will be seen until 2018.

Animaniacs is being rebooted and will most likely debut next year. The rebooted Animanaics will probably make fun of Donald Trump just like the original Animaniacs made fun of Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, the original computer nerds of the '90s, and other social and political things of the time.

Inspired by a similar thread created:


http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=56006.0

I was wondering about what other pop cultural effects have you noticed have changed, or are in the process of changing as we continue to enter balls deep into the 'Trump era'?




I hate to say I Told You So, but we've more or less turned into or are turning into an anti-Trump culture. If some other right-winger had become president..maybe I'd be convinced of your argument. But the Right is in such a weird position right now. They could have taken over but they screwed the pooch by putting their chips on Trump. Sorry if I offend Trump voters but I only see three types of Trump voters.

1. Trump voters who have buyer's remorse but continue to reluctantly and pitifully support Trump because he's "on our side". Many of these guys will probably end up sitting home 2018 and 2010.

2. Loyal Trump voters who forgive all of Trump's batsh!t craziness and come off as batsh!t crazy themselves.

3. More moderate Trump voters who have given up on Trump and will probably vote Democrat next elections.

Look at Late Night talk shows. The hosts are climbing over each other to crap on Trump. Stephen Colbert is the highest rated late night host and his entire show is built on sh!iting on Trump Look at one of the greatest failures in this country's political history with the Republicans b!tching about Obamacare for 7 years, then gaining an incredible amount of power and still not being about to remove the legislation. The Republican congress and President seem to be good at one thing and one thing only. Enriching themselves and their buddies. There hasn't been one, NOT ONE, major victory from these guys. As a lefty...it's actually kinda sad. It doesn't even feel like we're faking at winning (like in the Bush II era).

The less crazy conservative Republicans don't seem victorious. They often seem either combative, defeated, embarrassed or frustrated.

"The left is mean to us. This is how people like Trump get elected," are not the words of people who are proud of their president.

The era in the US feels weird right now. It definitely feels transitional. It feels like the country is desperately trying to swing right but I'm convinced the right messed up a good thing by electing Trump and allowing the alt-right to get so far out of control with Charlottesville. Trying to make Antifa into a boogeyman was just...pathetic. Obama was on his way to being thought of as a slightly better than mediocre president and after Trump, Obama will forever now be revered as a great president. I'm just amazed how so many on the right can't see how badly they screwed up in the long term. This should have been their swing into the "new 80s". But whatever what we're in...it's definitely not that.

This seems more to me like how my dad described the early '70s.

We'll definitely be seeing a lot more anti-Trump movies/TV shows, but I don't think it will be seen until 2018.

The producers of Game of Thrones want to make Confederate, a drama where the South won the Civil War and black people are still enslaved, and supposedly takes place in the 2010s. Amazon wants to make Black America, a drama where black people get their own country which thrives, and the "white America" declines (presumably because Trump or Goldwater wins in a landslide  ;D).


Well as I've linked at the top of thread, the full effects of Trump in office are starting to take head this TV season. Since most TV shows during the 2016-2017 were filmed in 2016, before he won the presidency (although by that point, his influence as a candidate was not something to reckon with), the 2017-2018 TV season would be the first in which the shows were primarily filmed in 2017 with Trump in office.

I hate to say I Told You So, but we've more or less turned into or are turning into an anti-Trump culture. If some other right-winger had become president..maybe I'd be convinced of your argument. But the Right is in such a weird position right now. They could have taken over but they screwed the pooch by putting their chips on Trump. Sorry if I offend Trump voters but I only see three types of Trump voters.

1. Trump voters who have buyer's remorse but continue to reluctantly and pitifully support Trump because he's "on our side". Many of these guys will probably end up sitting home 2018 and 2010.

2. Loyal Trump voters who forgive all of Trump's batsh!t craziness and come off as batsh!t crazy themselves.

3. More moderate Trump voters who have given up on Trump and will probably vote Democrat next elections.

Look at Late Night talk shows. The hosts are climbing over each other to crap on Trump. Stephen Colbert is the highest rated late night host and his entire show is built on sh!iting on Trump Look at one of the greatest failures in this country's political history with the Republicans b!tching about Obamacare for 7 years, then gaining an incredible amount of power and still not being about to remove the legislation. The Republican congress and President seem to be good at one thing and one thing only. Enriching themselves and their buddies. There hasn't been one, NOT ONE, major victory from these guys. As a lefty...it's actually kinda sad. It doesn't even feel like we're faking at winning (like in the Bush II era).

The less crazy conservative Republicans don't seem victorious. They often seem either combative, defeated, embarrassed or dismayed.

"The left is mean to us. This is how people like Trump get elected," are not the words of people who are proud of their president.

The era in the US feels weird right now. It definitely feels transitional. It feels like the country is desperately trying to swing right but I'm convinced the right messed up a good thing by electing Trump and allowing the alt-right to get so far out of control with Charlottesville. Trying to make Antifa into a boogeyman was just...pathetic. Obama was on his way to being thought of as a slightly better than mediocre president and after Trump, Obama will forever now be revered as a great president. I'm just amazed how so many on the right can't see how badly they screwed up in the long term. This should have been their swing into the "new 80s". But whatever what we're in...it's definitely not that.


I agree with all of this! It seems like most Americans are either indifferent with the new White House administration (and thats being generous) or vehemently loathes the new White House administration. Only 1 third of the country supports the President at the moment, and thats primarily the base of supporters that handed the GOP the election.

However, the fact that Trump seems to be taking a more moderate approach recently, especially after the backlash he faced with Charlottesville, with him making a bipartisan deal with the Democrats on FEMA funding for Harvey & Irma and funding the government for a few more months, signals how bad the GOP in Congress F*CKED up within the last several months. They b!tched and moaned about Obamacare for 7 YEARS and couldn't Repeal & Replace, let alone just Repealing it.

Hence why this move I'm noticing (at least with the old school legacy markets) is pretty intriguing because one would expect more scripted shows to debut this season to criticize the new political culture, but in a way they're legitimizing it. On the flip side, you still have many groundbreaking blockbusters like The Handmaids Tale that are resilient in resisting this new political culture. All in all, very interesting times we're living in, particularly within the realm of television.

I know this is politics and so it doesn't belong in a thread like this, but don't mistake Trump's latest actions for an effort at moderating, let alone bipartisanship: https://www.businessinsider.nl/trump-schumer-deal-tv-coverage-2017-9/?international=true&r=US

Literally the only thing he cares about.

Anyway, back on topic. I don't remember who in the thread said it, but I have to agree that this is more of a miscalculation on the part of the cable networks. They're so focused on giving people the garbage they want that they're blind to where the real money is going: the curated, resistance-oriented content creators like Netflix and Hulu. Obviously there isn't much they can do about this, but I feel like this is going to bite them in the ass in a big way, at least until midway through the decade. I saw it happen in the 2000s too.

Edit: Evidently I had butts on the mind last night.

I know this is politics and so it doesn't belong in a thread like this, but don't mistake Trump's latest actions for an effort at moderating, let alone bipartisanship: https://www.businessinsider.nl/trump-schumer-deal-tv-coverage-2017-9/?international=true&r=US

Literally the only thing he cares about.

Anyway, back on topic. I don't remember who in the thread said it, but I have to agree that this is more of a miscalculation on the part of the cable networks. They're so focused on giving people the garbage they want that they're blind to where the real money is going: the curated, resistance-oriented content creators like Netflix and Hulu. Obviously there isn't much they can do about this, but I feel like this is going to bite them in the ass in a big ass, at least until midway through the decade. I saw it happen in the 2000s too.


I agree.

Interesting article I read regarding the trend of cord cutting:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/09/12/millennials-may-doom-the-tv-business-or-maybe-not.aspx

Goes to show how desperate many traditional networks seem to be with trying to retain Millennials interests.

And while we're on the subject: https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/12/netflix-and-john-legend-make-talent-show/

To answer the original post, I doubt that T.V. culture will change much in the Trump Era in terms of content. Sure more and more people are cord-cutting, and switching to streaming services, but I do not see how that will effect the content itself. I'm sure people will eventually get sick of the whole " overly dark and edgy" serial drama trend and the hipster comedy/dramady trend that continues to dominate the 2010s, regardless of the format it's being presented in. But that will probably be sometime in the 2020s.

It looks like The Handmaid's Tale won an Emmy for best drama series:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/arts/television/emmy-awards.html?mcubz=0

It seems like politics was also front and center at this year's Emmys as well. Between the constant jabs at Donald Trump, to the former Press Secretary Sean Spicer making a comical guest appearance, THT winning best drama series (a perfect 'resistance' show for the Trump era), Saturday Night Live winning a record 9 rewards, and other shows like House of Cards and Stranger Things being nominated (also great shows delving into the philosophical topic on power & the status quo), just goes to show that there seems to be a sign of the times.

Eugh. That list of scripted shows is depressing. I think I will stick to my Netflix, thank you very much (and maybe cancel my cable subscription while I'm at it...why pay the extra money for such schlock?).

Hey, '80s people, correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that this was just a bit of clever revisionist history by Republicans? I'd heard it said the '80s were actually terrible and the economy didn't get on course until Bush Sr. increased taxes (and its effects not even felt till under Clinton). If anyone is able and/or willing to confirm or deny this, I'd be utterly thankful.

Well yes, by 2016 everyone knew Trump was in the running and pretty much what he stood for. At least those with a brain did.


A lot of blue collar and union workers were on edge in the 80s due to the beginning of union busting and the beginning of the end of the New Deal. Culture was mixed, with a combination of family friendly shows and, on the other hand, acts like Madonna and Michael Jackson pushing boundaries. 

A lot of blue collar and union workers were on edge in the 80s due to the beginning of union busting and the beginning of the end of the New Deal. Culture was mixed, with a combination of family friendly shows and, on the other hand, acts like Madonna and Michael Jackson pushing boundaries.


Very good points made. People tend to forget how influential counter culture was in the 80's. Peope tend to just focus on the overtly conservative aspects of the 80's between movies like Top Gun and Rambo, to TV shows like Dynasty and Dallas.

Music at the time was very experimental, a stark contrast to the conservative mood in the country.

Has anyone here actually seen The Handmaid's Tale?

I haven't seen it. It seems to me like it's a boring show and just overall it's a show that doesn't appeal to me. However, if any of you on here have seen it...how is it?

It looks like The Handmaid's Tale won an Emmy for best drama series:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/arts/television/emmy-awards.html?mcubz=0

It seems like politics was also front and center at this year's Emmys as well. Between the constant jabs at Donald Trump, to the former Press Secretary Sean Spicer making a comical guest appearance, THT winning best drama series (a perfect 'resistance' show for the Trump era), Saturday Night Live winning a record 9 rewards, and other shows like House of Cards and Stranger Things being nominated (also great shows delving into the philosophical topic on power & the status quo), just goes to show that there seems to be a sign of the times.


So dark and edgy dramas will continue to be the dominant T.V. genre the late 2010s. I figured as much. It's possible won't see a major shift in T.V. culture until after the Trump Era. I just hope that there will be more variety in the 2020s, and not just the same old dramas and hipster comedy/dramadies.

Very good points made. People tend to forget how influential counter culture was in the 80's. Peope tend to just focus on the overtly conservative aspects of the 80's between movies like Top Gun and Rambo, to TV shows like Dynasty and Dallas.

Music at the time was very experimental, a stark contrast to the conservative mood in the country.


My friend said he felt it was around the time The Lost Boys released was when the country started heading leftish again.

We're living in weird times. I remember back in 2002-03, the country felt so strongly conservative. Conservatives these days seem like, despite being in power, they act like they're fighting a losing battle. How do portray that in a show?

I think people increasingly turning on GoT could be a sign of the times. Then again...it's more popular than. It could be going the way of disco is the last season is bad. 2017 has also seen the worst box office turnout in 7 years. That could mean something.

To answer the original post, I doubt that T.V. culture will change much in the Trump Era in terms of content. Sure more and more people are cord-cutting, and switching to streaming services, but I do not see how that will effect the content itself. I'm sure people will eventually get sick of the whole " overly dark and edgy" serial drama trend and the hipster comedy/dramady trend that continues to dominate the 2010s, regardless of the format it's being presented in. But that will probably be sometime in the 2020s.


What do you qualify as "overly dark and edgy" and  "hipster comedy/dramady" and why do you dislike them?

What do you qualify as "overly dark and edgy" and  "hipster comedy/dramady" and why do you dislike them?

Shows like Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead & The Handmaid's Tale are what he considers "overly dark and edgy".

Shows like 2 Broke Girls, Orange is the New Black & New Girl are what he considers "hipster comedy shows".

So dark and edgy dramas will continue to be the dominant T.V. genre the late 2010s. I figured as much. It's possible won't see a major shift in T.V. culture until after the Trump Era. I just hope that there will be more variety in the 2020s, and not just the same old dramas and hipster comedy/dramadies.


The thing is though, the recent rise in dark shows like THT seem to be more based in the Trump era, due to the resurgence in the conversation about religion, especially pertaining to public life. On the flip side, shows like Kevin (Probably) Saves The World are supposed to debut this 2017-2018 TV season as a comedic portrayal of actually living a religious life. Once again this is unique to the Trump era, as religion, due to the resurgence of right wing TV evangelism, has become a hot topic again.

Between the ascension conservative judicial appointments (read here for more info: http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/16/opinions/democrats-trump-circuit-court-nominees-opinion-jennings/index.html) whom tend to interpret the laws in a more conservative direction, to the rise in the alt right who tend to ascribe to create an Ethno European-Cultural state, and the whole 'American First' movement which seems to signal propelling the values of America and particularly Christianity over the values of different nations and cultures; having shows that try to be whimsical in appeasing to these unearthed values, and shows that simultaneously perpetuate a disdain for these values aren't just mere coincidences.

I think this social attitude we're living in is unique to the Late 2010's, an era defined by Trump regardless if (doubtfully at the moment, although things could always change) he wins re-election in 2020 or not. Years later, the late 2010's are going to be seen to many people as a sort of power struggle between the left and the right, a right divided in how to run the country with the immense political capital they preside, and a left struggling to regain its seat to the table within government despite having won the '90's-10's Cultural War' among the people (many people saw the Obergefell v. Hodges Case as the symbolic end to the 'cultural war', signaling a more generally accepted liberalized world, pertaining to social issues & identity politics).

Shows like Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead & The Handmaid's Tale are what he considers "overly dark and edgy".

Shows like 2 Broke Girls, Orange is the New Black & New Girl are what he considers "hipster comedy shows".


"Why do you dislike them" is the most important part of the question. I'd like to know his reasoning for why these shows are bad or unsavory. I just want to know if he and others like him have a concrete or illuminating reasons why they dislike these shows. If they don't, then I'll just toss their opinions in the trash.

My friend said he felt it was around the time The Lost Boys released was when the country started heading leftish again.

We're living in weird times. I remember back in 2002-03, the country felt so strongly conservative. Conservatives these days seem like, despite being in power, they act like they're fighting a losing battle. How do portray that in a show?

I think people increasingly turning on GoT could be a sign of the times. Then again...it's more popular than. It could be going the way of disco is the last season is bad. 2017 has also seen the worst box office turnout in 7 years. That could mean something.


You know, I had sort of hoped that the popularity of GoT would mean people were taking away from the show its intended message: despite romanticized visions of medieval Europe, feudalism sucks. Was I wrong to hope?

You know, I had sort of hoped that the popularity of GoT would mean people were taking away from the show its intended message: despite romanticized visions of medieval Europe, feudalism sucks. Was I wrong to hope?


Good point! That same logic could be applied to A Handmaid's Tale. It was written back in the 80's, and re-released in the 10's to serve a warning about not underestimating the evangelic right. Well we all know what happened, people just blindly drank the kool aid that 'The GOP will never win another general election!!' or 'Trump could never become President' or even just blindly making asinine accusations that everybody who voted for Trump were racist.

Many people on the left massively underestimated the ability conservatives had to attain working class voters, and appealing populist, despite the policy decisions they stand for being massively status quo and of course overtly pro religious. Its one of the major takeaways from the election which is that one has to always be self aware and conscious about their own perceived flaws, in order to contour them and ignite a passionate message. Otherwise a wolf in sheep's clothing could easily pick away at one's flaws and dramatically change the message of the candidates core values.

Unfortunately with the arrogance of the left (particularly the establishment left), we're now living the consequences. I agree with the sentiment that it was more on the lines that Hillary lost the election, rather then that Trump won the election. Of course nothing as drastic as what is perceived in GOT or THT, but in our Post-Cold War World that we've (for the most part) grown up in, this may as well be considered a frightening nightmare or an unraveling wake up call.

Fall Lineups from various major networks:



CW:

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ABC:

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(Ironically is using the new song Ready for It by Taylor Swift, someone who has been discussed whose new image is a perfect representation to the new 'give no f*cks, I'm better than you' attitude of the Trump era)



NBC:

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(Out of all the big 4/5 networks, NBC's seem to maintain being the most left leaning in content, heck Will & Grace is returning this fall ;))



FOX:

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CBS:

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You know, I had sort of hoped that the popularity of GoT would mean people were taking away from the show its intended message: despite romanticized visions of medieval Europe, feudalism sucks. Was I wrong to hope?


I think that's the message most people got. It seems counterintuitive, but I think Game of Thrones is a very feminist show.

I think that's the message most people got. It seems counterintuitive, but I think Game of Thrones is a very feminist show.


Explain.... just curious.

I think that's the message most people got. It seems counterintuitive, but I think Game of Thrones is a very feminist show.


I disagree, because the culture is moving in the other direction. People are becoming crass, authoritarian, craven, willfully ignorant (the most important ingredient), and untrusting, at least in America. This is all unmistakably a move back towards feudalism.

I think that's the message most people got. It seems counterintuitive, but I think Game of Thrones is a very feminist show.
I bear that in mind when I finally get to watch it.

I disagree, because the culture is moving in the other direction. People are becoming crass, authoritarian, craven, willfully ignorant (the most important ingredient), and untrusting, at least in America. This is all unmistakably a move back towards feudalism.


I agree. I notice this here in NJ (granted some people had always had the stereotypical 'no f*cks, I'm better then YOU' attitude) that many people seem more jaded and skeptical around others. Theres so much political division that it seems like a taboo to even remotely poke fun at the current political environment, let alone actually giving a heartfelt opinion.

I bear that in mind when I finally get to watch it.


What TV shows are you currently into Philip?

Interesting article:


http://deadline.com/2017/09/young-sheldon-the-good-doctor-premiere-ratings-big-bang-theory-the-brave-the-voice-me-myself-i-1202177081/

Basically, The Good Doctor and Young Sheldon did very well in the ratings of their premiers. Young Sheldon actually had the largest comedy premiere since the premiere of 2 Broke Girls in 2011.

The article also goes on to say that Me, Myself, & I and The Brave did decent, but nothing grand. Would be interesting to see how this TV season progresses since theres expected to be more right wing oriented programming debuting (militaristic/religious oriented content). So far though this new shift that corporate executives are pushing to the masses seems to be hit or miss.

So it’s been a couple of months since I made this thread and here’s a few things that I have noticed:

-Young Sheldon and The Good Doctor have been getting rave reviews and consistently good ratings! Young Sheldon in particular aired an episode last night which actually affected the ratings for the NFL, being slightly down this year.

-The more militaristic/right wing dramas like Seal Team and S.W.A.T have been pretty mixed by the critics, but their ratings seem to pretty good. They were both granted full season orders this Autumn. The other military dramas haven’t been as lucky though. NBC’s The Brave’s ratings have been consistently slipping for the last few weeks, while The CW’s Valor’s ratings are just stagnant. It’s possible that Valor may not get a full season, the reboot of Dynasty on the contrary has already been guaranteed a full season order.

-Netflix is now at forefront of online entertainment (arguably bigger than... I dare say it YouTube), with the recent release of Stranger Things season 2 setting a massive ripple effect in pop culture. The show went from a niche Netflix Sci Fi shows for us 80’s Nerds, to a national phenomenon. It seems as Netflix continues to become more readily available, the demand is becoming much stronger. This comes into play as why Netflix rose the fee for its basic membership (only by a dollar though) and there’s expected to be more innovative content coming through to the platform. However, with recent initiatives by the FCC to massively deregulatate the market and end Net Neutrality it will be interesting to see how these streaming services will acclimate.


If there’s any other major changes you have noticed, please list them below!

Aha, so my prediction about "boutique" entertainment on Netflix winning out over militaristic cable trash rings true!

Aha, so my prediction about "boutique" entertainment on Netflix winning out over militaristic cable trash rings true!


Pretty much! Although SEAL Team is doing decent. Also, to my surprise, the Dynasty reboot is actually doing pretty well. I thought it would go the route as the Dallas reboot, but I’m afraid I was wrong.

-Netflix is now at forefront of online entertainment (arguably bigger than... I dare say it YouTube), with the recent release of Stranger Things season 2 setting a massive ripple effect in pop culture. The show went from a niche Netflix Sci Fi shows for us 80’s Nerds, to a national phenomenon.


Season 2 of Stranger Things was a huge let down for me.

I don't remember anyone dressing like a Ghostbuster for the Halloween of 1984. I had to turn it off after I saw that. People born in the mid '80s have no business writing fictional stories set in the mid '80s.  8-P

Its a new year and there's some important updates:



As John Titor mentioned in a prior thread, but I'll mention it here, but that theres been a major development in ratings for television channels. Apparently ratings for The Hallmark Channel are booming, with the channel now number 3 in national ratings.



This has been mainly due to the rise in polarizing politics in recent years that have led millions of Americans seeking a safe refuge in a sense: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/21/the-feel-good-hallmark-channel-is-booming-in-the-age-of-trump/?utm_term=.1f67aef803ea.

Not to mention the channel being a mecca for family friendly content, especially during the Holidays and peak 'cuffing season' months. The channel seems to be in line with this resurgence in content catered to 'family values' in line with this right wing shift in society. Regardless if thats good or bad, has yet to have been fully seen and wholly depends on your own views.


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The second major development in television is the return of the iconic Paramount Network set to premiere this month. This network will have some hit shows include the real life tragedy of Waco, the reboot of an 80s cult classic Heathers, and a show based during the 70s sexual revolution American Woman which is definitely a sign of the times with the empowering #metoo movement and feminism growing in popularity, among other shows.


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It'd be interesting to see what other blockbuster shows premiere on the network. Of course with the 25th anniversary of Waco recently further supporting the mere fact that the 1990s are no longer 'recent' or 'modern' in today's times (heck the decade has it's own series on CNN now), Heathers being an 80s reboot further proving the growing 80s resurgence in nostalgia especially during this resurgent essence of conservatism in the national conscience, and of course the rise in female empowerment in the show American Woman.


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The final thing I want to talk about is the continued rise in streaming services like Netflix. With the recent success in shows like Black Mirror, and the overall positive reception with the new unveiling of The End of the F**king World, it seems the network are making great strides in providing stellar content, for only 10 bucks a month ;).

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This is also coming after the deeply unpopular FCC mandate killing Net Neutrality had just been approved, along with the continued demise of YouTube with the recent Logan Paul controversy. With the times changing many people will continue (voluntarily or not) changing their usage of their choice for their primary video streaming needs.

All in all 2018 is already looking to be pretty transformative in the realm of television.

It is May 21st 2018 and there are some huge updates:



Renewed Seasons


Many of the shows that debuted this season such as SEAL Team, S.W.A.T, Dynasty, Young Sheldon, For the People, and Roseanne to name a few have all been renewed for second seasons. This is a bit of a surprise (especially in the case of Roseanne), since a lot of these shows seemed to be more 'milktoast' and conservative than television shows of the last few years. However, the public seems to have given these shows a warm reception, especially Roseanne which has appealed to many American audiences in the Midwest, whom emphasize with the character's political views/pro Trumpism (with Trump even congratulating Roseanne).


https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/768x433/2018/02/thr_roseanne_20180118-roseanne1284_f_splash.jpg


Ironically, a show that was the epitome of the 'Silent Majority' which was The Middle is set to air its finale tomorrow evening. The show aired during the Presidency of Barack Obama, but it did encompass during the rise of Trump and the subsequent start of his presidency.


https://ocs-pl.oktawave.com/v1/AUTH_2887234e-384a-4873-8bc5-405211db13a2/splay/2017/10/dynastia.png


However, while Roseanne shows to be a reasonable replacement for the more meek midwestern void for audiences with The Middle ending, other shows like the freshman Dynasty and the continued success of shows like Empire, Greenleaf, and For The People prove that theres a resurgence in the more gaudy and elegant storylines of characters in TV. One could argue that the improving American economy has contributed in this evolving mindset.


https://arhsharbinger.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/riverdale-900x473.png


Ironically the success of Riverdale comes at a time when the media is becoming more entranced with Generation Z. While results vary (some start as early in the mid 90s, others as late as the mid 00s), most marketers and sociologists consider the generation to have born from 2001 through the present. As a result, as some of the youngest Millennials are now turning 18 (going by the 1982-2000 definition), Millennials are no longer apart of the adolescense demographic. Thus, shows like Riverdale on the CW, miniseries like The End of the F*cking World, and even shows like 13 Reasons Why (which just dropped its second season a couple of days ago) and Degrassi: The Next Class on Netflix gives the generation characters and storylines they could relate towards.



New Shows


http://media.comicbook.com/2018/05/charmed-key-art-1110105.jpeg


Speaking about the CW, the channel has been experiencing a boom in popularity with shows like Riverdale, Jane the Virgin, The Flash, and Dynasty. Thus, with the Millennial and Gen Z target audience getting older, the channel has decided to reboot a few shows. We already have Riverdale, a modernized (and CWfied) reboot of the characters and universe of the Archie Comics. You also have Dynasty, a remake of the glamorous 1980s drama of the same name. However, the channel has now announced another reboot, the classic late 90s/early 00s drama Charmed. The show will be a reboot, but will incorporate some new elements to make it fresh. Its a different family from the original, in which the main actresses, including Madeline Mantock, Melonie Diaz, and Sarah Jeffrey, are all of hispanic descent.


https://localtvwtkr.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/cw_midseason_finale_ecard_2018_updated_.png?w=770&h=424


This comes to no surprise, the country is becoming more and more diverse, and Gen Z is arguably the first generation where non-hispanic whites aren't the majority. The timing of this reboot also makes sense as it commemorates the 20th anniversary of the original, marking a new generation that will grow up with this (and a bunch of nostalgic Gen Xers/Millennials who may tune in just to see what all of the 'hubba' is about ;D).



End of Classic 2010s Era Television


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/wm/live/1280_640/images/live/p0/5w/s7/p05ws74s.jpg


All in all, 2017-2018 seems to be the end of an era for many classic 2010s TV shows like The Middle, Scandal, New Girl, House of Cards, Nashville, Portlandia, and The Fosters to name a few, many of which were a product of their era. They represented the meek essence of the Obama presidency and post 2008 financial collapse and thus thoroughly examined how many groups in America responded to these dramatic changes in attitude. Shows like The Middle and Mike & Molly (which ended in 2016) looked into how Middle America dealt with the slow economic recovery of the 2010s and how their views on the world, unintentionally I may add but in all in all, were a precursor to the rise in 'Trumpism'.


https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/scandal/images/0/06/Scandal_Season_7_-_Cast_Promo_01.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20171114141844


Shows like Scandal and House of Cards delved deep into the depleting trust in American institutions, particularly the federal government, by glorifying corruption and the main characters obsession with power. Finally, shows like New Girl, Portlandia, and shows that ended earlier in this decade like 2 Broke Girls, Community, and Glee to name a few, explored how the Millennial Generation, or those born in the 80s & 90s, were responding to these transformative changes in society. With many of these shows ending (including the mid 2010s classic Broad City, which is set to end next year) it seems to suggest that the Millennial Generation is growing up. This video from Screen Prism goes into great detail to this phenomenon:


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Economic Factors Changing Cultural Norms


Even in 2018 standards, some of the things that are mentioned in the show seem to be showing their age. I mean the economy as of now are not on like late 1990s levels of bullish activity, but its certainly profoundly better to what it was even just a few years ago. While the culture wars (Extreme Leftism vs. Extreme Rightism) seems to have continued (although has slightly subsided from its peak in 2016-2017), the overall attitude of the United States pertaining to fiscal issues is overall positive. In fact some new studies shows this:


http://news.gallup.com/poll/232046/americans-continue-rate-trump-highest-economy.aspx

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/29099-latest-cbs-poll-americans-happy-with-economy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-24/u-s-consumer-confidence-index-unexpectedly-rebounded-in-april



Conclusion


All of these reports come at a time when the U.S just hit the 8th year in a row of its stellar economic recovery from the dismal 2007-09' recession. This along with massive financial stimulus in the form of the recent tax cuts which has led to the largest amount of stock buybacks since 2007, and the rise in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, the overall prospects for Americans is looking relatively positive. While there are concerns of the Federal Reserve possibly raising interest rates due to the wonderful economic news, the economy becoming too overheated with the tax cuts, and these massive cuts in government revenue potentially leading to $1.1 trillion in deficits by 2021, in the short term things seem to be doing well. This definitely comes into play in how the culture is currently.


https://tvseriesfinale.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/empire-fox-canceled-renewed-e1506185021281.jpg


Thus, Americans are craving something new and different. They're now craving the more lavish lifestyles and outlandish adventures of the days during the 'Noughties', but with a modern twist. Perhaps this change in societal attitudes is a precursor to how the 2020s will be like in its cultural zeitgeist, but in the meantime television seems to be going through a big transitional phase into something more 'bold'. And as Generation X continually enters their peak earning years in this 'new economy', Millennials continue to move up the corporate latter, graduate from college with bachelors/masters degrees, reinvigorate their artistic careers (like many YouTubers transitioning from the platform and moving onto new ventures), & start investing in stocks & cryptocurrency in this 'new economy', and of course with Gen Zers starting to come of age & plan their financial futures in this 'new economy', what better way to dictate the cultural changes, especially in relation towards economics, than on the silver screen.

^^^ I think 2018 feels similar to 2016 in a lot of ways, most notably the culture wars and societal tension.  However, in 2018 it's the extreme right that has the upper hand and is dominating the narrative.  In 2016, it was the left.

While today's economy is certainly better than it was through most of Obama (until the last year really), it feels more like an '00s economy than a '90s one.

^^^ I think 2018 feels similar to 2016 in a lot of ways, most notably the culture wars and societal tension.  However, in 2018 it's the extreme right that has the upper hand and is dominating the narrative.  In 2016, it was the left.

While today's economy is certainly better than it was through most of Obama (until the last year really), it feels more like an '00s economy than a '90s one.


True, 2016 isn't that far away because in many ways 2016 was the crossover between the classic Obama era 2010s into the modern Trump era 2010s. From a principled and polished Commander in Chief to an erratic and combative to one.


https://www.merkur.de/bilder/2018/04/18/9794578/2744428-us-president-barack-obama-welcomes-president-elect-donald-trump-WZGIxTAvxNG.jpg


Things are VERY different from a political standpoint to even just two years ago, but the mere fact that the 2016 election was going on is why it doesn't feel completely detached from today.

I'd have to disagree with you on the economy though. The economy does have a lot of similarities with the boom in the 2000s (low taxes, easy credit, housing boom, etc.), but the overall fundamentals of this strong economy are coming from mainly Silicon Valley, similar to the 1990s.

The continued advancements for smartphones, autonomous vehicles becoming more common, delivery services like Uber eats/Tapingo, wearable technology like smartwatches, 4K becoming standard, cars becoming more advanced, social media becoming more vital to businesses than ever before, I could go on and on. When you look at the top companies on the NYSE, you'd expect to see companies like Tesla, Apple, Google, Facebook (for better or for worst), Nike (which has been killing it not just in fashion but in wearable technology as well).

As I stated prior, even without the recent financial stimulus from the Trump Administration that has propelled the economy forward, the economy was already pretty strong due to the rise in economic influence from Silicon Valley, which one could argue was thanks to President Obama due to his willingness to be forward thinking in his business initiatives in that regard.

True, 2016 isn't that far away because in many ways 2016 was the crossover between the classic Obama era 2010s into the modern Trump era 2010s. From a principled and polished Commander in Chief to an erratic and combative to one.


I would agree.  Thinking back to 2016, though it does feel connected today, it also seems like an entirely different world.  However, Trump is the persona of the anger and rage that people in red state America were feeling during the Obama years.  I live in the most Trump supporting part of the country and I was around it every day.  The 2015 backlash against same-sex marriage being legalized and Bruce Jenner becoming Caitlyn Jenner was beyond unfathomable for people insulated in coastal urban bubbles.

The crux of the issue is a battle between two sides who have visions of two different Americas.  Economics doesn't have much to do with it.  It's entirely cultural.

You have Trump supporters who want return to a highly-conformist, patriarchal society similar to the 1950s.  They want government to promote religion.  They believe that white men should rule society and that women should be in the kitchen, gays should stay in the closet, transgender people shouldn't even exist, and minorities should stay in their own little enclaves out of sight out of mind like they were in the mid 20th century.  This is currently the dominant mindset.

Then you have the left who are becoming more vocal and less willing to compromise with Trumpists on their issues.  They see the future as full equality for everyone with free universal healthcare, a universal basic income, free college, a completely secular state, gun control, legal marijuana, a more cooperative foreign policy where war is a last resort, etc.  In 2016, this actually felt achievable.  Now it's become a pipe dream.

Season 2 of Stranger Things was a huge let down for me.

I don't remember anyone dressing like a Ghostbuster for the Halloween of 1984. I had to turn it off after I saw that. People born in the mid '80s have no business writing fictional stories set in the mid '80s.  8-P


When you think about it...that was the joke.

I would agree.  Thinking back to 2016, though it does feel connected today, it also seems like an entirely different world.  However, Trump is the persona of the anger and rage that people in red state America were feeling during the Obama years.  I live in the most Trump supporting part of the country and I was around it every day.  The 2015 backlash against same-sex marriage being legalized and Bruce Jenner becoming Caitlyn Jenner was beyond unfathomable for people insulated in coastal urban bubbles.

The crux of the issue is a battle between two sides who have visions of two different Americas.  Economics doesn't have much to do with it.  It's entirely cultural.

You have Trump supporters who want return to a highly-conformist, patriarchal society similar to the 1950s.  They want government to promote religion.  They believe that white men should rule society and that women should be in the kitchen, gays should stay in the closet, transgender people shouldn't even exist, and minorities should stay in their own little enclaves out of sight out of mind like they were in the mid 20th century.  This is currently the dominant mindset.

Then you have the left who are becoming more vocal and less willing to compromise with Trumpists on their issues.  They see the future as full equality for everyone with free universal healthcare, a universal basic income, free college, a completely secular state, gun control, legal marijuana, a more cooperative foreign policy where war is a last resort, etc.  In 2016, this actually felt achievable.  Now it's become a pipe dream.


I see where you're coming from and I agree. This Midterm Election this year will be a major referendum on Trump's presidency.

If the DNC's prospects of a 'Blue Wave' become realized then that is a major blow to Trump's presidency and shows that the country does not support his direction of the country. One could also argue that if the DNC wins then there would likely be subsequent impeachment hearings on the President's alleged collusion with Russia (and now revelations with other states like Israel and Saudi Arabia) and his corrupt financial ties to Russian oligarchs.

However, on the flip side if the GOP maintains Congress (and possibly expands their power) it is a referendum that further legitimates Trump's presidency and his vision on the country. Theres already reports that Mueller's investigation may end by September of this year, and if the GOP expands their consolidation of power in Congress, they could potentially use roadblocks in hearing or allowing evidence from the Special Counsel to be displayed in the public sphere.

This 'tug a war' of political power comes at a time when traditional/legacy TV stations are catering to content that leans towards the Right-Wing (the Roseanne reboot being a perfect example), while streaming services continue to cater to Left-Wing audiences. Its hard to tell which narrative is truly winning, but with the recent announcement of the Obamas doing a partnership with Netflix to produce content, Netflix's stock rose immensely. Netflix even just broke both Disney's and Comcast's market cap, becoming the most profitable company on the NYSE.

Speaking about politics (and abhorrent racism), the Roseanne reboot has just been cancelled:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/abc-cancels-roseanne-barrs-sitcom-after-her-tweet-about-black-obama-aide-valerie-jarrett.html

Goes to show that racism is still well and alive in the States. This is a damn shame, and I used to like Roseanne...

Speaking about politics (and abhorrent racism), the Roseanne reboot has just been cancelled:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/abc-cancels-roseanne-barrs-sitcom-after-her-tweet-about-black-obama-aide-valerie-jarrett.html

Goes to show that racism is still well and alive in the States. This is a damn shame, and I used to like Roseanne...

Great! O0

I also never liked Roseanne (both the person and her show).

Great! O0

I also never liked Roseanne (both the person and her show).


I agree. I bet the POTUS is going to defend her though, I wouldn't be surprised.

Another thing I'd like to talk about is the show The Last Man Standing being revived for a 7th season, set to air this fall on FOX. This is another sitcom that had a huge conservative audience and it sparked a lot of outrage when ABC decided to axe the show at the end of the 2016-2017 season. You'd think with the changing political environment within the Trump era that the network advisors would decide to keep the show, but it got cancelled.

I have a strange feeling in my gut that there is going to be a similar sense of outrage from the conservative base with Roseanne being cancelled (and arguably at a MUCH higher level). Do you expect another network, like FOX, to possibly pick Roseanne up?

I agree. I bet the POTUS is going to defend her though, I wouldn't be surprised.

Another thing I'd like to talk about is the show The Last Man Standing being revived for a 7th season, set to air this fall on FOX. This is another sitcom that had a huge conservative audience and it sparked a lot of outrage when ABC decided to axe the show at the end of the 2016-2017 season. You'd think with the changing political environment within the Trump era that the network advisors would decide to keep the show, but it got cancelled.

I have a strange feeling in my gut that there is going to be a similar sense of outrage from the conservative base with Roseanne being cancelled (and arguably at a MUCH higher level). Do you expect another network, like FOX, to possibly pick Roseanne up?

There's no way that any other network would and should pick up Roseanne. It would be a HUGE mistake and their sponsors and viewership would tank.

There's no way that any other network would and should pick up Roseanne. It would be a HUGE mistake and their sponsors and viewership would tank.


That's what me and you would think. However, theres a huge demographic in the country that will perceive this as 'Evil/Lefty Hollywood Political Correctness'. These are many of the same people who voted for Trump and disregarded and or doubled down on the hateful rhetoric Trump espoused during the campaign.

This video from ABC is a pretty good representation of what much of Middle America is like:

38DY30I73lg

Its a long video talking about mainly Trump supporters in the Texas County of Roberts. It shows that so many people in 'Trump Country' were so blind in either their own hatred of the 'other' or were immensely naive in thinking Trump could ignite positive change. It remains one of the most pro-Trump regions in the country, and it shows that a large part of Middle America will (wrongly, of course, but nonetheless) be outraged by this decision made by ABC. Trust me, theres gonna be a bit of a rude awakening. I'm just trying to make sure you know that. The conditions of 2016 are not the same anymore, this country (especially the South & Mid-West) is becoming very conservative. Hearing about some of the stories about bchris' experience growing up there, its becoming more and more alarming and dangerous.

That's what me and you would think. However, theres a huge demographic in the country that will perceive this as 'Evil/Lefty Hollywood Political Correctness'. These are many of the same people who voted for Trump and disregarded and or doubled down on the hateful rhetoric Trump espoused during the campaign.

This video from ABC is a pretty good representation of what much of Middle America is like:

38DY30I73lg

Its a long video talking about mainly Trump supporters in the Texas County of Roberts. It shows that so many people in 'Trump Country' were so blind in either their own hatred of the 'other' or were immensely naive in thinking Trump could ignite positive change. It remains one of the most pro-Trump regions in the country, and it shows that a large part of Middle America will (wrongly, of course, but nonetheless) be outraged by this decision made by ABC. Trust me, theres gonna be a bit of a rude awakening. I'm just trying to make sure you know that. The conditions of 2016 are not the same anymore, this country (especially the South & Mid-West) is becoming very conservative. Hearing about some of the stories about bchris' experience growing up there, its becoming more and more alarming and dangerous.

I actually already watched that video about 2 months ago.

Also, I know how many Trump supporters will feel about the cancellation of Roseanne.

However, none of that matters lol. Last Man Standing is returning and I honestly don't care about how Trump supporters feel TBH.

I actually already watched that video about 2 months ago.

Also, I know how many Trump supporters will feel about the cancellation of Roseanne.

However, none of that matters lol. Last Man Standing is returning and I honestly don't care about how Trump supporters feel TBH.


Lol I understand where you're coming from. I was just looking at these changes moreso from a macro level than a micro level. Its good that ABC made the decision to cancel the show, maintaining morality is more important than making short term profits. However, it just seems like because of how corporatist our culture has become in the last few years that I wouldn't be surprised if another company, like FOX, would pick up this show (especially since they could use this as cover for what they perceive as 'Left-wing bias' and further double down on their culture war).

Lol I understand where you're coming from. I was just looking at these changes moreso from a macro level than a micro level. Its good that ABC made the decision to cancel the show, maintaining morality is more important than making short term profits. However, it just seems like because of how corporatist our culture has become in the last few years that I wouldn't be surprised if another company, like FOX, would pick up this show (especially since they could use this as cover for what they perceive as 'Left-wing bias' and further double down on their culture war).

"Fox News is not structured as a news division of the Fox network, and operates as a technically separate entity within 21st Century Fox through the company's Fox News Group subsidiary".


The network Fox operates separately from Fox News lol. I don't see any reason why FOX (the network) would pick up Roseanne, that would crash their sponsorship and ratings.

Maybe, Fox News will try and hire Roseanne and give her a job as the host of her own "news" or talk show ;D :P.

That's what me and you would think. However, theres a huge demographic in the country that will perceive this as 'Evil/Lefty Hollywood Political Correctness'. These are many of the same people who voted for Trump and disregarded and or doubled down on the hateful rhetoric Trump espoused during the campaign.

This video from ABC is a pretty good representation of what much of Middle America is like:

38DY30I73lg

Its a long video talking about mainly Trump supporters in the Texas County of Roberts. It shows that so many people in 'Trump Country' were so blind in either their own hatred of the 'other' or were immensely naive in thinking Trump could ignite positive change. It remains one of the most pro-Trump regions in the country, and it shows that a large part of Middle America will (wrongly, of course, but nonetheless) be outraged by this decision made by ABC. Trust me, theres gonna be a bit of a rude awakening. I'm just trying to make sure you know that. The conditions of 2016 are not the same anymore, this country (especially the South & Mid-West) is becoming very conservative. Hearing about some of the stories about bchris' experience growing up there, its becoming more and more alarming and dangerous.


I heard about this story from my sisters this morning. I was having a conservation with my uncle yesterday and we were talking about how we would think of the Republican party or conservatives as honest people if it wasn't for the racist/discriminated views in their DNA past down from generation to generation. Honestly a lot of them have hard working, beautiful families with a solid education, have jobs that make them a lot of money, and strongly embrace their belief in God, but again you can't speak for everybody's shoes (which is a problem with a lot of people in this country nowadays). Just like the "shut up and dribble" BS.

"Fox News is not structured as a news division of the Fox network, and operates as a technically separate entity within 21st Century Fox through the company's Fox News Group subsidiary".


The network Fox operates separately from Fox News lol. I don't see any reason why FOX (the network) would pick up Roseanne, that would crash their sponsorship and ratings.

Maybe, Fox News will try and hire Roseanne and give her a job as the host of her own "news" or talk show ;D :P.


Woah yeah I was about to say, FOX is just a company, but the network's decisions have no reflect on what FOX News does lol. My local news station in Atlanta is FOX 5 (RIP Amanda Davis), has nothing to do with the national news station of FOX News which we all know has been very hypocritical with their actions. To me it's not even about FOX News being pro Republican I have a problem with, it's their overly biased views being too extreme and their hypocritical actions.

Woah yeah I was about to say, FOX is just a company, but the network's decisions have no reflect on what FOX News does lol. My local news station in Atlanta is FOX 5 (RIP Amanda Davis), has nothing to do with the national news station of FOX News which we all know has been very hypocritical with their actions. To me it's not even about FOX News being pro Republican I have a problem with, it's their overly biased views being too extreme and their hypocritical actions.

That's why most people don't like Fox News including myself.

Speaking about politics (and abhorrent racism), the Roseanne reboot has just been cancelled:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/abc-cancels-roseanne-barrs-sitcom-after-her-tweet-about-black-obama-aide-valerie-jarrett.html

Goes to show that racism is still well and alive in the States. This is a damn shame, and I used to like Roseanne...


I liked the original Roseanne when it first aired during the late 80's.

Its already starting....

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/30/roseanne-barr-back-on-twitter-after-leaving-apologizes-to-cast-crew-after-abc-cancels-hit-show.html

Never watched the show or the reboot, could care less except that it's sad to see 1984 is becoming more and more real each day. From what I understand, she said what she said outside of the show, on Twitter. The show itself wasn't promoting those views nor the costars. Could've easily gone with a lesser measure such as docking her pay or suspending her from the show for a few weeks (even if she was the lead, you can write episodes without a lead character in place, use some excuse). I do not believe in censorship of any kind except that which has to do with public safety.

Never watched the show or the reboot, could care less except that it's sad to see 1984 is becoming more and more real each day. From what I understand, she said what she said outside of the show, on Twitter. The show itself wasn't promoting those views nor the costars. Could've easily gone with a lesser measure such as docking her pay or suspending her from the show for a few weeks (even if she was the lead, you can write episodes without a lead character in place, use some excuse). I do not believe in censorship of any kind except that which has to do with public safety.

You have no understanding of a contract and the 1st Amendment and you also seem to excuse every racist statement under the guise of "free speech" or else it's censorship.

That's sad.

You have no understanding of a contract and the 1st Amendment and you also seem to excuse every racist statement under the guise of "free speech" or else it's censorship.

That's sad.


I'm not her employer so I wouldn't know what was in her contract. Nor am I in the entertainment industry, so again, entertainment contracts are not my expertise.
Nah, see, I see it as this: Anyone can make whatever they want, and everyone else is free to either endorse it or not. The same freedom extends to say, if Louis Farrahkhan was to make a show about how white people are evil. I wouldn't care in that case either. I wouldn't watch such a program, but I also wouldn't be rallying for it to be cancelled. That's what freedom is.

But you likely won't respond, or will say I wrote an essay or some other sarcastic crap.

I'm not her employer so I wouldn't know what was in her contract. Nor am I in the entertainment industry, so again, entertainment contracts are not my expertise.
Nah, see, I see it as this: Anyone can make whatever they want, and everyone else is free to either endorse it or not. The same freedom extends to say, if Louis Farrahkhan was to make a show about how white people are evil. I wouldn't care in that case either. I wouldn't watch such a program, but I also wouldn't be rallying for it to be cancelled. That's what freedom is.

But you likely won't respond, or will say I wrote an essay or some other sarcastic crap.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

ABC is her employer and she represents ABC when she is on and off set. If she says something ABC doesn't like or goes against ABC's policies then they can easily fire her...WHICH THEY DID.

Freedom of speech ONLY means that the federal government can't put you in prison for what you say (unless you directly threaten the government).

So many Americans have a distorted view of the First Amendment.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

ABC is her employer and she represents ABC when she is on and off set. If she says something ABC doesn't like or goes against ABC's policies then they can easily fire her...WHICH THEY DID.

Freedom of speech ONLY means that the federal government can't put you in prison for what you say (unless you directly threaten the government).

So many Americans have a distorted view of the First Amendment.


Perhaps, then, like you feel with the Second Amendment, the First should be altered to be more clear. I feel every person has a right to be offensive and to offend in turn. Like I said, if Louis Farrahkhan produced a show literally titled, "Why White People Are Evil" I would not give a single f***. I would not be rallying for its cancellation. I wouldn't honestly care. See, you think I excuse racism on the grounds of free speech? I excuse EVERYTHING that could potentially be offensive, so long as it doesn't promote violence against individuals or groups or could actively harm people (like fire in a theater), REGARDLESS of who it is being said or done by. I think if we were able to be more open with our feelings about each other, specifically, if both races were free to express how they feel about each other, we would have a better society. American society today is like a marriage that is essentially broken but no one wants to really talk about it. I say talk about it. Tear down each other. Get it out of our systems and let's end the battles of the Civil War and the 1960s and actually move forward.

Perhaps, then, like you feel with the Second Amendment, the First should be altered to be more clear. I feel every person has a right to be offensive and to offend in turn. Like I said, if Louis Farrahkhan produced a show literally titled, "Why White People Are Evil" I would not give a single f***. I would not be rallying for its cancellation. I wouldn't honestly care. See, you think I excuse racism on the grounds of free speech? I excuse EVERYTHING that could potentially be offensive, so long as it doesn't promote violence against individuals or groups or could actively harm people (like fire in a theater), REGARDLESS of who it is being said or done by. I think if we were able to be more open with our feelings about each other, specifically, if both races were free to express how they feel about each other, we would have a better society. American society today is like a marriage that is essentially broken but no one wants to really talk about it. I say talk about it. Tear down each other. Get it out of our systems and let's end the battles of the Civil War and the 1960s and actually move forward.

OK, this statement pretty much tells me everything I need to know.

That will be all. I'm done.

OK, this statement pretty much tells me everything I need to know.

That will be all. I'm done.


No, what the hell is wrong with what I said? You really disagree that there are underlying issues dividing the races? This social sense of having to watch what you say on both sides is suffocating. People of both races are angry at each other. The more its repressed, the worse it will get. I don't know what the solution is but I don't believe in censorship for anyone, white, black or brown.

Ultimately what you and I want is the same thing: A harmonious society where all people (regardless of race, creed, religion, gender/sexual identity and national origin) are equal. Where we differ is how to get there. I just do not like repression of any kind. I do not like the mob mentality which social media has instilled in our society. It has divided us into factions. You cannot speak freely without risking losing your friends. I have Trump supporters as friends on FB, and I have Anarchists who hate cops on FB. I find it is harder and harder to be in a middle ground without risking angering and alienating one or the other.

So, forgive me if I'm uptight or if I have a chip on my shoulder, but having to constantly watch what you say or else my Trump supporting friend will think less of me, or being worried that saying something as simple as "not all cops are bad" will cause my Anarchist friends to unfriend me, it becomes a little infuriating.

I just want an end to social censorship. Is that so bad?

The drama doesn't end.....


kQJ-m5wjaVI

I told you so:

http://www.newsweek.com/roseanne-abc-fox-canceled-twitter-948172

I'm not sure if FOX will pick it up though (especially since FOX is now owned by Disney), but overall it shows that the show's conservative fan base are willing to look past Barr's racist statements to provide them a voice.

I told you so:

http://www.newsweek.com/roseanne-abc-fox-canceled-twitter-948172

I'm not sure if FOX will pick it up though (especially since FOX is now owned by Disney), but overall it shows that the show's conservative fan base are willing to look past Barr's racist statements to provide them a voice.

Supposedly, Trump supporters are upset that Leftist™ celebrities haven't been fired over saying "racist" and "bigoted" jokes and statements but Roseanne got fired and that's unfair.

To them, conservatives and Trump supporters are always being attacked and the Liberal Media™ doesn't care about how conservatives feel.

Conservatives and Trump supporters are among the biggest cry babies and snowflakes I've ever seen.

Perhaps, then, like you feel with the Second Amendment, the First should be altered to be more clear. I feel every person has a right to be offensive and to offend in turn. Like I said, if Louis Farrahkhan produced a show literally titled, "Why White People Are Evil" I would not give a single f***. I would not be rallying for its cancellation.


Oh yes you totally would. I see it all the time.

Oh yes you totally would. I see it all the time.


I think I know myself better than you do. No, I literally would not give a damn. At all.

I don't think you quite understand me. I don't mind offensive behavior from people. I'm not easily offended. I'm of a different mindset where I feel 'anything goes.' I already laid out where I feel the line in the sand is with that - speech promoting violence, or speech would could cause disorder and physical harm. But below that I honestly don't care what people say. The more raunchy stuff is, the more shocking it is, the more I enjoy it. I think everyone needs to laugh at things more. I think everyone needs to get anger out of their system more. We're such a bottled up society and that's why I feel in part you're seeing things like these school shootings. That's why you're seeing a rise in white supremacy and black separatism. We're bottling up these negative feelings and turning away from each other. We stifle what we can and cannot say. It's unhealthy. The human spirit was not meant to be contained.

As far as this particular issue is concerned, I've never in my life, hand on my heart, swear on my dead grandfather, watched a single episode of Roseanne, old or new. I have no horse in that particular race. It's one of a long list of popular old shows I've never really watched (which include Cheers, The Cosby Show, Married with Children and some others). The content of Roseanne from what I read of it, the old show, didn't resonate with me so I didn't bother giving it a chance. Same with Married with Children.

My issue is just with the mob mentality we have now due to social media. It's the same attitude which assumes that if a man has a single accuser without ANY tangible evidence of harassment or assault, the guy is finished, stick a fork in him, he's branded, like the Scarlet Letter, as a pervert. Roseanne Barr is known for saying off the wall crazy things. She has well-known mental issues from what I understand. Crazy gonna be crazy. I feel bad for the fans of the show (many of whom I'm seeing are critical of her for saying what she did), I feel bad for her co-stars, and honestly I feel bad for her. She's a mental case. I don't condone personally what she said, simply because, even if she didn't mean her 'planet of the apes' reference in a racist manner, she's smart enough to know that comparing a black person to an ape is not the same as comparing a white personto one just due to history. She said something stupid and she faced consequences. My beef was that the consequences were too severe, basically the whole cast punished for one person, and that I feel we are moving toward a 1984 direction where "wrongthink" or "wrongspeak" will be punished. You and I may agree that her words were tactless at best and vile at worst, but my worries are that if we allow society to become this sort of mob rule, PC or keep your mouth shut society, eventually, maybe, you'll say something that goes against 'the rules', or I will. Eventually it won't just be when a person says a racist thing or whatever. It'll be whatever is against the popular narrative.

I think I know myself better than you do. No, I literally would not give a damn. At all.

I don't think you quite understand me. I don't mind offensive behavior from people. I'm not easily offended. I'm of a different mindset where I feel 'anything goes.' I already laid out where I feel the line in the sand is with that - speech promoting violence, or speech would could cause disorder and physical harm. But below that I honestly don't care what people say. The more raunchy stuff is, the more shocking it is, the more I enjoy it. I think everyone needs to laugh at things more. I think everyone needs to get anger out of their system more. We're such a bottled up society and that's why I feel in part you're seeing things like these school shootings. That's why you're seeing a rise in white supremacy and black separatism. We're bottling up these negative feelings and turning away from each other. We stifle what we can and cannot say. It's unhealthy. The human spirit was not meant to be contained.

As far as this particular issue is concerned, I've never in my life, hand on my heart, swear on my dead grandfather, watched a single episode of Roseanne, old or new. I have no horse in that particular race. It's one of a long list of popular old shows I've never really watched (which include Cheers, The Cosby Show, Married with Children and some others). The content of Roseanne from what I read of it, the old show, didn't resonate with me so I didn't bother giving it a chance. Same with Married with Children.

My issue is just with the mob mentality we have now due to social media. It's the same attitude which assumes that if a man has a single accuser without ANY tangible evidence of harassment or assault, the guy is finished, stick a fork in him, he's branded, like the Scarlet Letter, as a pervert. Roseanne Barr is known for saying off the wall crazy things. She has well-known mental issues from what I understand. Crazy gonna be crazy. I feel bad for the fans of the show (many of whom I'm seeing are critical of her for saying what she did), I feel bad for her co-stars, and honestly I feel bad for her. She's a mental case. I don't condone personally what she said, simply because, even if she didn't mean her 'planet of the apes' reference in a racist manner, she's smart enough to know that comparing a black person to an ape is not the same as comparing a white personto one just due to history. She said something stupid and she faced consequences. My beef was that the consequences were too severe, basically the whole cast punished for one person, and that I feel we are moving toward a 1984 direction where "wrongthink" or "wrongspeak" will be punished. You and I may agree that her words were tactless at best and vile at worst, but my worries are that if we allow society to become this sort of mob rule, PC or keep your mouth shut society, eventually, maybe, you'll say something that goes against 'the rules', or I will. Eventually it won't just be when a person says a racist thing or whatever. It'll be whatever is against the popular narrative.


I agree. In principle I am a supporter of free speech in almost all cases. However there are a few exceptions I generally make:

1. Threats of Violence

2. Unprotected Speech (so hate speech essentially, however this could be a bit of slippery slope in many instances)

&

3. Liable/Slander


If the speech in question does not violate these three taboos, then I'd say, regardless of its connotation or my opinion of said speech, should be allowed in the public. Now in the case of Roseanne's twitter, she clearly didn't use any threats of violence in her attack of Valerie Jarret, but one could argue that she did use hate speech (in the sense of comparing Jarret to an ape, although some have argued that Roseanne referred to Jarret as simply "Planet of the Apes" so some argue that she may have referred to a human character in the series, so its a bit ambiguous about what Roseanne's intentions were, but for all intense and purposes lets assume she meant it in the racist connotation) and or Liable/Slander by claiming that she founded the Muslim Brotherhood. There hasn't been anything that factually shows that this exists, thus it sounded like Roseanne was emitting conspiracy theories with no ground of reality.

By using that example, Roseanne's outburst broke 2 of the 3 crucial taboos of free speech, and thus is not something I would categorize as free speech. Regardless though, it is important to have a dialogue about touchy subjects as it could provide more understanding of other people's viewpoints, and to possibly reach to some sort of cooperation. This infamous music video from Joyner Lucas's song titled, "I'm Not Racist" is a perfect example of why civic discourse is so prudential in our society:

43gm3CJePn0

The AT&T and Time Warner merger has just been approved:


http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/12/media/att-doj-antitrust-merger/index.html


There's going to be huge changes with this merger. Now AT&T owns one of the largest media corporations in the world. It will now own CNN, Warner Bros, The CW, and Cartoon Network to name a few.

Now waiting to see if Disney and fox are still gonna merge.

Now waiting to see if Disney and fox are still gonna merge.


Disney's conspiracy theories are getting more and more creepy af. Disney looks like the nicest thing in the world as kids growing up especially to parents, but knowing how it's been taking over all these companies lately and the subliminal messages put together should we start questioning the company's true colors?  :o  Even the ABC station itself is getting creepier too.

Disney's conspiracy theories are getting more and more creepy af. Disney looks like the nicest thing in the world as kids growing up especially to parents, but knowing how it's been taking over all these companies lately and the subliminal messages put together should we start questioning the company's true colors?  :o  Even the ABC station itself is getting creepier too.

Disney has already been doing that for decades.

Disney has already been doing that for decades.


Well duh of course that's a no brainer. You can see it in all of their movies from years past and even if you go to Disney World or Disney Land as well. Honestly though I'm not a superstitious person and I believe young kids should be able to have fun with Disney while they're still young and innocent. I'm never going to be one of those overly religious people who force the Word of God on my kids too much and put too many restrictions on them. That's almost like abuse and that's how kids become atheists when they grow up. Yes there must be boundaries and no one wants their kids to get desensitized into too many extreme things at a young age that they shouldn't know until they're at least the high school age, but kids should still have fun with many traditional kids stuff such as Disney or comic book toys, etc.

Perhaps, then, like you feel with the Second Amendment, the First should be altered to be more clear. I feel every person has a right to be offensive and to offend in turn. Like I said, if Louis Farrahkhan produced a show literally titled, "Why White People Are Evil" I would not give a single f***. I would not be rallying for its cancellation. I wouldn't honestly care. See, you think I excuse racism on the grounds of free speech? I excuse EVERYTHING that could potentially be offensive, so long as it doesn't promote violence against individuals or groups or could actively harm people (like fire in a theater), REGARDLESS of who it is being said or done by. I think if we were able to be more open with our feelings about each other, specifically, if both races were free to express how they feel about each other, we would have a better society. American society today is like a marriage that is essentially broken but no one wants to really talk about it. I say talk about it. Tear down each other. Get it out of our systems and let's end the battles of the Civil War and the 1960s and actually move forward.


The second amendment is pretty clear, gun worshippers just omit a part of it.
Louis Farrakhan (nobody under 21 knows who that fkuker is) can say he hates white people all he wants. You can say you hate black people all you want.

NO ONE IS CENSORING YOU.
YOU ARE NOT CENSORING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU CARE,
YOU ARE NOT CENSORING YOURSELF IN ORDER TO BE POLITE,
YOU ARE CENSORING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BACKBONE.

The second amendment is pretty clear, gun worshippers just omit a part of it.
Louis Farrakhan (nobody under 21 knows who that fkuker is) can say he hates white people all he wants. You can say you hate black people all you want.

I'm under 21 and I know who Louis Farrakhan is.

The second amendment is pretty clear, gun worshippers just omit a part of it.
Louis Farrakhan (nobody under 21 knows who that fkuker is) can say he hates white people all he wants. You can say you hate black people all you want.

NO ONE IS CENSORING YOU.
YOU ARE NOT CENSORING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU CARE,
YOU ARE NOT CENSORING YOURSELF IN ORDER TO BE POLITE,
YOU ARE CENSORING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BACKBONE.


I ain't censoring myself; I got a pretty strong backbone. I also don't hate black people. Green is my color and every other shade comes second to that. I guess I'm a green supremacist. Makes me a bad man, what can I say? As far as gun worship - you can have a gun and not be a nutjob shootin up innocent people. Just don't let looney tune's have access to weaponry and we'll be good.

Now waiting to see if Disney and fox are still gonna merge.


Unfortunately.....

https://www.wsj.com/articles/comcast-bids-roughly-65-billion-for-fox-1528920230


Looks like my dream of a Deadpool MCU crossover is about to never come to fruition ;D.

Sad thing is, with all these mergers, internet business, etc, the little guy, the "Mom and Pop" is getting screwed. I admire entrepreneurs, but I have a soft spot for the family run restaurant over the chain business. For the little guy with ideas but no riches to help him compete.

Disney has already been doing that for decades.

Disney's conspiracy theories are getting more and more creepy af. Disney looks like the nicest thing in the world as kids growing up especially to parents, but knowing how it's been taking over all these companies lately and the subliminal messages put together should we start questioning the company's true colors?  :o  Even the ABC station itself is getting creepier too.


I agree with Mqg. Minus the recent buyouts/mergers in this decade (FOX, Star Wars, MCU, etc), the closest thing to a major merger in Disney's history was their merger in 1996 (when I was born weirdly enough) with ABC. From 1996-1997 onwards, there was a significant shift in ABC's marketing, essentially making it more 'Disneyfied'. Using the classic ABC Saturday Morning Block as an example, in 1996 ABC still used the iconic 'After these Messages' bumpers for commercial breaks:


9S7j2rgfTyA


Starting in 1997, ABC abandoned those bumpers in exchange for the 'Army Men' bumpers, based on the Disney/Pixar film Toy Story:


AG5gJtxWuB4


Not to mention, Disney's One Saturday Morning launching in Late 1997:


vnhso7yT1Ow

Disney is a long way from Walt. Walt shoulda been President.

I'm under 21 and I know who Louis Farrakhan is.


Oh, Jesus...

I ain't censoring myself; I got a pretty strong backbone. I also don't hate black people. Green is my color and every other shade comes second to that. I guess I'm a green supremacist. Makes me a bad man, what can I say? As far as gun worship - you can have a gun and not be a nutjob shootin up innocent people. Just don't let looney tune's have access to weaponry and we'll be good.


So you say. I guess I can only take your word on that.

Disney is a long way from Walt. Walt shoulda been President.


President of Disney?

President of Disney?


Of the US. Ever seen his original plans for EPCOT? It's almost utopian. The EPCOT that exists is a tiny shadow of his vision (which only failed to happen because of his death).

An interesting take on this subject:


F5xrP3GwSHE



Of the US. Ever seen his original plans for EPCOT? It's almost utopian. The EPCOT that exists is a tiny shadow of his vision (which only failed to happen because of his death).


Yeah, Walt Disney was a genius. He'd be disgraced to see how the company is run today. I don't hate modern Disney, but I could tell that Walt's vision of the company was certainly not to be run like an 'evil empire', if that makes sense.

Some of you are whitewashing Walt Disney.

Walt was just as nefarious as most executives of big companies.

Some of you are whitewashing Walt Disney.

Walt was just as nefarious as most executives of big companies.


In some ways, when it came to unions and such, he was hard nosed. But nice guys don't get ahead in the business world. As far as businessmen go he was a visionary, beyond the bottom line. The guy was dying of cancer in the hospital and looking up at the wall tiles using the grids of them as a map for plans for EPCOT. That's dedication. He was a member of HUAAC in the 50s but then so was Robert Kennedy and a lot of other people. He distrusted labor unions and as great as many were for workers, just as many in that period were literally run by organized crime or acted a fronts for Communist organizations. Walt's worst sin was being an anticommunist and a stickler when it came to business. But compared to the guys today, he had vision, and dedication, and passion to his craft that I believe went beyond financial gain.

In some ways, when it came to unions and such, he was hard nosed. But nice guys don't get ahead in the business world.


This is so true. You have to get out of your comfort zone sometimes in order for your business to stay successful. This applies to your everyday life in general too. I always tell people there's a difference between being nice and being kind but too many people think those are the same terms when that's not true. Even in the bible verse Galatians 5:22-23 love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, etc. you see kindness in there but you never see anything about "niceness" or being nice in there. It's a common misconception by everyone in America.

In some ways, when it came to unions and such, he was hard nosed. But nice guys don't get ahead in the business world. As far as businessmen go he was a visionary, beyond the bottom line. The guy was dying of cancer in the hospital and looking up at the wall tiles using the grids of them as a map for plans for EPCOT. That's dedication. He was a member of HUAAC in the 50s but then so was Robert Kennedy and a lot of other people. He distrusted labor unions and as great as many were for workers, just as many in that period were literally run by organized crime or acted a fronts for Communist organizations. Walt's worst sin was being an anticommunist and a stickler when it came to business. But compared to the guys today, he had vision, and dedication, and passion to his craft that I believe went beyond financial gain.


Being not a nice guy is one thing, actually betraying your own employees' trust is another. Also he was a casual racist, as was common for his time, but is that any excuse for that behavior? I mean, look at this:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5680b8ed9cadb6554dbbf174/t/595ec9d22994ca0500536411/1499384302838/?format=1000w

Being not a nice guy is one thing, actually betraying your own employees' trust is another. Also he was a casual racist, as was common for his time, but is that any excuse for that behavior? I mean, look at this:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5680b8ed9cadb6554dbbf174/t/595ec9d22994ca0500536411/1499384302838/?format=1000w


A lot of classic cartoons back in the day were racist when that was tolerated a lot more in America long time ago. Even the Looney Tunes cartoons, Tex Avery cartoons, Droopy, etc. had racist scenes in there too, but I believe some of those were censored out when those were aired on kids stations later on.

As stated above, that doesn’t make it okay.

As stated above, that doesn’t make it okay.


Well obviously, but it just goes to show how times have evolved. At one point, just say 10-20 years ago, it was ok to make gay jokes on television (even in shows with gay characters), but that is certainly a taboo nowadays.

Well obviously, but it just goes to show how times have evolved. At one point, just say 10-20 years ago, it was ok to make gay jokes on television (even in shows with gay characters), but that is certainly a taboo nowadays.


Dude, there was an episode of Friends back in the day that addressed a gay issue and it was really good with a moral story, and I mean it was the type of gay story that gay people and straight people would have been OKAY with, but of course that episode wouldn't be able to be on TV today because of this POLITICALLY CORRECT world we live in today! "Everything we say is OFFENSIVE now if we don't agree with you 110%!!!" "You're a homophobic!" "You're a racist ass!" Family Matters went over other types of issues that wouldn't be on TV today either. That's what sitcoms of the 90's did. They weren't ashamed of addressing issues that would end with a moral story because there was no social media back then with so much tension going on.

Of the US. Ever seen his original plans for EPCOT? It's almost utopian. The EPCOT that exists is a tiny shadow of his vision (which only failed to happen because of his death).


No I haven't seen it.

No I haven't seen it.


sLCHg9mUBag

Being not a nice guy is one thing, actually betraying your own employees' trust is another. Also he was a casual racist, as was common for his time, but is that any excuse for that behavior? I mean, look at this:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5680b8ed9cadb6554dbbf174/t/595ec9d22994ca0500536411/1499384302838/?format=1000w


"Walt Disney was no racist. He never, either publicly or privately, made disparaging remarks about blacks or asserted white superiority. Like most white Americans of his generation, however, he was racially insensitive." Floyd Norman, the studio's first black animator who worked closely with Disney during the 1950s and 1960s, said, "Not once did I observe a hint of the racist behavior Walt Disney was often accused of after his death. His treatment of people‍—‌and by this I mean all people‍—‌can only be called exemplary.

And on balance, he campaigned for the black star of Song of the South to receive an Honorary Academy Award, which made the actor the first black male performer to receive an Oscar.

I'm not suggesting he be President today, but he would've been a good one anywhere from the 30s to 60s

sLCHg9mUBag


WOW :o :o :o
This is actually kinda creepy to watch. EPCOT was planned to be TWICE the size of Manhattan and have its very own airport?!?!?!? That really is almost utopian!

Dude, there was an episode of Friends back in the day that addressed a gay issue and it was really good with a moral story, and I mean it was the type of gay story that gay people and straight people would have been OKAY with, but of course that episode wouldn't be able to be on TV today because of this POLITICALLY CORRECT world we live in today! "Everything we say is OFFENSIVE now if we don't agree with you 110%!!!" "You're a homophobic!" "You're a racist ass!" Family Matters went over other types of issues that wouldn't be on TV today either. That's what sitcoms of the 90's did. They weren't ashamed of addressing issues that would end with a moral story because there was no social media back then with so much tension going on.


Friends continue to air on multiple channels year around all across this country.  I'm so sick of people complaining about political correctness. In America, there is no law against political incorrectness. If you desire to offend, you can do it, freely.

Friends continue to air on multiple channels year around all across this country.  I'm so sick of people complaining about political correctness. In America, there is no law against political incorrectness. If you desire to offend, you can do it, freely.


Look at Roseanne. The star said something stupid, bigoted and not only was the revived show cancelled, but the original show was essentially pulled from the market (reruns and streams were stopped). Yes, you can still buy DVDs. But DVD players will stop working in time. I can't see it ever getting another release on a physical medium that replaces DVD/BluRay. All that will be left is streaming; and I can easily see a future where studios choose not to stream "problematic" older content, and then such content essentially becomes unavailable.

WOW :o :o :o
This is actually kinda creepy to watch. EPCOT was planned to be TWICE the size of Manhattan and have its very own airport?!?!?!? That really is almost utopian!


Climate controlled, only electric public transportation vehicles on rails on the streets, meaning less pollution and more safety. Cars would operate only underground. These ideas alone should and could easily be done in major cities and we would have cleaner air and less death. If manually driven cars were restricted to underground, carefully planned roadways, there would not be this push toward self-driving cars. Climate control would protect against climate change and increase productivity.

Look at Roseanne. The star said something stupid, bigoted and not only was the revived show cancelled, but the original show was essentially pulled from the market (reruns and streams were stopped). Yes, you can still buy DVDs. But DVD players will stop working in time. I can't see it ever getting another release on a physical medium that replaces DVD/BluRay. All that will be left is streaming; and I can easily see a future where studios choose not to stream "problematic" older content, and then such content essentially becomes unavailable.


And yet, Rosanne can continue to say stupid and bigoted things. No one owes Rosanne facetime unless contractually obligated. There are multiple mediums where Rosanne can continue being stupid and bigoted.

If the urban legends are true, then maybe Wait Disney can come back and straighten everything out once they figure out how to unfreeze him.  :o :o :o

And yet, Rosanne can continue to say stupid and bigoted things. No one owes Rosanne facetime unless contractually obligated. There are multiple mediums where Rosanne can continue being stupid and bigoted.


I'm talking about the show and how even the original show was essentially pulled from the market. Not the actress herself. Do you support the idea of suppressing problematic media?

I'm talking about the show and how even the original show was essentially pulled from the market. Not the actress herself. Do you support the idea of suppressing problematic media?


Before we continue, I want to see the evidence of "the original show...essentially pulled from the market."

Hulu has joined Viacom and its channels in pulling Roseanne reruns, reps with knowledge of the decisions confirmed to EW Tuesday afternoon.

Paramount Network, TV Land, and CMT will all cease to air reruns of the series, while Hulu confirms it will remove the show from its library.

Starting tomorrow, syndicated episodes of the recently revived sitcom — which was axed by ABC earlier today after racist tweets from star/co-creator Roseanne Barr ignited a social media firestorm — will no longer run in rotation across the channels.

Laff, a digital network that specializes in reruns of popular sitcoms, has similarly yanked old episodes of the series. “While we believe viewers have always distinguished the personal behavior of the actress Roseanne Barr from the television character Roseanne Conner, we are disgusted by Barr’s comments this week,” read Laff’s official statement. “Therefore, we are removing the original Roseanne series from the Laff schedule for the time being, effective immediately.”

Barr’s ouster from the small screen — the unceremonious end to a spring season that saw her revived series debut to massive ratings for ABC and draw praise from, among others, Donald Trump — came swiftly on Tuesday after Barr posted racist attacks against former Obama advisor Valerie Jarrett, who is African-American,” writing that “muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby=vj.”

ABC’s entertainment president, Channing Dungey, announced that Roseanne was canceled just hours later, adding in a statement that “Roseanne’s Twitter statement is abhorrent, repugnant and inconsistent with our values.” Though the first season of Roseanne wrapped up last week, it had been renewed for a second season that was originally set to premiere in September.

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/29/roseanne-reruns-yanked-from-hulu-viacom-channels/

Two ideas:

First, the Constitutional protections of freedom of speech pertain to governmental actions to restrict speech. Private institutions are entirely within rights to restrict speech as they wish, and it isn’t a constitutional infringement. Basic bar exam stuff.

Second, the freedom of speech is the freedom to speak; it is not freedom to be heard. So it is fully within rights of both individuals and the public to shame people who say abhorrent things.

sLCHg9mUBag


Thanks, I'll save it for later to watch.

Two ideas:

First, the Constitutional protections of freedom of speech pertain to governmental actions to restrict speech. Private institutions are entirely within rights to restrict speech as they wish, and it isn’t a constitutional infringement. Basic bar exam stuff.

Second, the freedom of speech is the freedom to speak; it is not freedom to be heard. So it is fully within rights of both individuals and the public to shame people who say abhorrent things.


THIS. THIS. THIS.

90s Guy, the reason I asked that question is that I googled Rosanne reruns and saw that her show was still being sold and streamed by multiple outlets. Those other businesses have no obligation to continue filling her coffers unless legally obligated.

Have any of you heard of this show called Pose?


cvvdM7x4yHU

Weirdly enough its based in the Late 1980s in NYC, with Trump Tower actually being a prime location for the storylines of the show. I haven't watched it, but I heard its sort of a commentary on the zeitgeist of the 'Greed is Good' Mentality of the 1980s (hence the title). Also, the mere fact that the show is based in Trump Tower, adds to this. Many people forget that Trump made his debut in the public consciousness as this bombastic millionaire developer in NYC back in the 80s. You could argue that he was the exemplary yuppie of the 1980s, who was a product of the conservative Reagan Era


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/books/2016/10/21/reagan-trump_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq8QxYGbxe6VHEkSli7CVIRpq5gUoA8cV-1nBuxqVdVaw.jpg?imwidth=450


You could argue that Trump's rise to fame in that decade is what started his long process in getting involved in politics. This episode from The Oprah Winfrey Show in 1988 is Trump talking about his grievances with trade, back in the 80s


SEPs17_AkTI


But of course, Trump has also been historically linked to racism. Be it him and his father with their racist dealings with black tenants in the 1970s, and more notably Trump's abhorrent racist sentiment he espoused in 1989 during the infamous Central Park Five Case:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEEi0nrVoAAvge9.jpg


By the way these guys were merely teenagers, so they wouldn't be charged as adults. On top of that, they were wrongly convicted. However decades later, Trump has not apologized for the horrible things he said about those kids. If anything, he has doubled down on what he said.


https://sites.psu.edu/donahuercl/files/2016/10/wpid-central-park-5-urcmrg.jpg


The 1980s, overall, is what brought Trump to the masses. The jokingly (and a bit likable) billionaire who 'makes deals' and lead to a revitalization of NYC. And the Trump who can act like a bombastic and racist maniac if triggered by the wrong button. I haven't watched this new show, but I'm guessing the essence of the show is essentially my little analysis of Trump's rise in the 80s, and the overall zeitgeist in the country at the time that may have contributed to it. A perfect example of television within the Trump Era.

Another trailer for the show:


Us-yvjTUepA


I'm not going to lie, it looks pretty good!

THIS. THIS. THIS.

90s Guy, the reason I asked that question is that I googled Rosanne reruns and saw that her show was still being sold and streamed by multiple outlets. Those other businesses have no obligation to continue filling her coffers unless legally obligated.


I'd like to direct you to page 6, to see my response about this topic about free speech:

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=56023.75

Just a bit of perspective.

I'd like to direct you to page 6, to see my response about this topic about free speech:

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=56023.75

Just a bit of perspective.


I read and I agree. Is there anything you think I missed and would disagree with?

Have any of you heard of this show called Pose?


cvvdM7x4yHU

Weirdly enough its based in the Late 1980s in NYC, with Trump Tower actually being a prime location for the storylines of the show. I haven't watched it, but I heard its sort of a commentary on the zeitgeist of the 'Greed is Good' Mentality of the 1980s (hence the title). Also, the mere fact that the show is based in Trump Tower, adds to this. Many people forget that Trump made his debut in the public consciousness as this bombastic millionaire developer in NYC back in the 80s. You could argue that he was the exemplary yuppie of the 1980s, who was a product of the conservative Reagan Era


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/books/2016/10/21/reagan-trump_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq8QxYGbxe6VHEkSli7CVIRpq5gUoA8cV-1nBuxqVdVaw.jpg?imwidth=450


You could argue that Trump's rise to fame in that decade is what started his long process in getting involved in politics. This episode from The Oprah Winfrey Show in 1988 is Trump talking about his grievances with trade, back in the 80s


SEPs17_AkTI


But of course, Trump has also been historically linked to racism. Be it him and his father with their racist dealings with black tenants in the 1970s, and more notably Trump's abhorrent racist sentiment he espoused in 1989 during the infamous Central Park Five Case:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEEi0nrVoAAvge9.jpg


By the way these guys were merely teenagers, so they wouldn't be charged as adults. On top of that, they were wrongly convicted. However decades later, Trump has not apologized for the horrible things he said about those kids. If anything, he has doubled down on what he said.


https://sites.psu.edu/donahuercl/files/2016/10/wpid-central-park-5-urcmrg.jpg


The 1980s, overall, is what brought Trump to the masses. The jokingly (and a bit likable) billionaire who 'makes deals' and lead to a revitalization of NYC. And the Trump who can act like a bombastic and racist maniac if triggered by the wrong button. I haven't watched this new show, but I'm guessing the essence of the show is essentially my little analysis of Trump's rise in the 80s, and the overall zeitgeist in the country at the time that may have contributed to it. A perfect example of television within the Trump Era.


Trump to me epitomizes, and has really with hindsight always epitomized, a garish caricature of the nouveau riche, 80s capitalism and NYC. As a New Yorker I feel ashamed because he makes us look bad by association. He is the worst Baby Boomer yuppie ideals all distilled ino one man. I wish he would just go away. I wish he, Hilary Clinton, and most politicians would go away actually.

I watched an episode of Pose last Sunday, and my God was that show heavy! It actually tackled moreso of the societal problems of the 1980s than I initially thought it would. Primarily the LGBTQ movement of the 1980s and the constant societal pressure and oppression members of the community faced back then.

The show also tackles income inequality, especially since half of the main cast lives in the ghetto fighting to survive, while the other half of the main cast lives in upper-middle class stability fighting for the top.

Shows you how distinct, and overall, how drastic the 1980s were for many groups of people. But regardless, everybody subscribed to the magnificent ideal of 'Wealth & Power', especially with the whole 'Greed is Good' mentality of that decade. Hence the name of the show, 'Pose'.

Sort of like how in the 1930s-1950s, everybody subscribed to the idea of the 'American Dream'.

Trump to me epitomizes, and has really with hindsight always epitomized, a garish caricature of the nouveau riche, 80s capitalism and NYC. As a New Yorker I feel ashamed because he makes us look bad by association. He is the worst Baby Boomer yuppie ideals all distilled ino one man. I wish he would just go away. I wish he, Hilary Clinton, and most politicians would go away actually.


I agree. Growing up in NY in the 2000s, hearing the names 'Trump' or 'Clinton' were inescapable. In hindsight, they've both destroyed the reputations of NYC. Similar to how Christie has ruined the reputation of the Garden State.

I agree. Growing up in NY in the 2000s, hearing the names 'Trump' or 'Clinton' were inescapable. In hindsight, they've both destroyed the reputations of NYC. Similar to how Christie has ruined the reputation of the Garden State.

I disagree. I also don't see how the Clintons have "destroyed" the reputation of NYC and they don't even live in NYC.

The reputation of NYC has NOT changed due to Trump or Clinton.

Also, in general, the reputation of NYC has actually IMPROVED since 9/11.

I disagree. I also don't see how the Clintons have "destroyed" the reputation of NYC and they don't even live in NYC.

The reputation of NYC has NOT changed due to Trump or Clinton.

Also, in general, the reputation of NYC has actually IMPROVED since 9/11.


Clinton was a terrible Senator and was massively corrupt. She practically changed the image of the Democratic Party in NY from the Progressive workers party it was known for much of the 20th century to the modern Neo-Liberal Party of today. I'm not saying she didn't do any good things as Senator, but clearly (and her terrible loss to Trump proves that), intentionally or not, lead to a decline in the Democratic Party, in particular to how it operates in the Empire State (just look at the current primary between Cuomo and Nixon as an example).

Trump, similarly, contributed to NY's decline with his overpriced real estate boom in the 1980s-2000s. Essentially, setting the rise for gentrification and the displacement of millions of traditional/blue collar NY residents. In today's world a TV show like All in the Family (which was set in Queens) or The Jeffersons (which focused on a working class African-American family moving up from Queens to Manhattan) wouldn't really fit in with the modern NYC echo system, simply because its not relatable anymore. Everything is overpriced, and inflation is out of control, to the point where many working-middle class New Yorkers would be hard pressed to make it big with their incomes where they live.

Thus, many of them (like my family) moved to the suburbs, where home prices are substantially cheaper and amenities (while not at NY levels) are still relatively efficient and good. Heck schooling in many aspects is better in Long Island and New Jersey, than it is in NYC. Unfortunately theres a lot of other traditional NYC residents that were straight up displaced and kicked out of their homes, many whole lived in the projects, to make way for high-end luxury apartments. Those people were simply 'left behind' from the prosperity of NYC's renaissance since the 1990s.

Don't get me wrong, I still love NYC. I have tons of relatives there, and I love visiting the city to do many different types of excursions. Its just that I don't find it as an attractive place to live anymore. I'd rather live in the (godforsaken) suburbs and commute to the city, even if it takes 2 hours door to door, than actually live in the city and the commute still takes 1.5-2 hours door to door. You catch my drift?

Ironically, the massive gentrification of the city has made it a great tourist hub, which is cool in my book. But it came at the cost of selling out some of the core aspects that made the city great to work and live in. But thats just the way things is, times change.

I disagree. I also don't see how the Clintons have "destroyed" the reputation of NYC and they don't even live in NYC.

The reputation of NYC has NOT changed due to Trump or Clinton.

Also, in general, the reputation of NYC has actually IMPROVED since 9/11.


To people in rural areas, people in NYC are thought of as crooks and gangsters even now. Our accen is mocked and thought of as sounding stupid. Trump is thought by these people, who have never set foot in the city, to represent as Ted Cruz put it, "New York Values." On a side note I hate how abhorred our accent is.

To people in rural areas, people in NYC are thought of as crooks and gangsters even now. Our accen is mocked and thought of as sounding stupid. Trump is thought by these people, who have never set foot in the city, to represent as Ted Cruz put it, "New York Values." On a side note I hate how abhorred our accent is.

That has been a thing for decades. Nothing new.

Like I said, NYC's reputation has actually improved since 9/11.

You and ZeldaFan20 need to stop conflating everything with Trump and Hillary.

Clinton was a terrible Senator and was massively corrupt. She practically changed the image of the Democratic Party in NY from the Progressive workers party it was known for much of the 20th century to the modern Neo-Liberal Party of today. I'm not saying she didn't do any good things as Senator, but clearly (and her terrible loss to Trump proves that), intentionally or not, lead to a decline in the Democratic Party, in particular to how it operates in the Empire State (just look at the current primary between Cuomo and Nixon as an example).

Trump, similarly, contributed to NY's decline with his overpriced real estate boom in the 1980s-2000s. Essentially, setting the rise for gentrification and the displacement of millions of traditional/blue collar NY residents. In today's world a TV show like All in the Family (which was set in Queens) or The Jeffersons (which focused on a working class African-American family moving up from Queens to Manhattan) wouldn't really fit in with the modern NYC echo system, simply because its not relatable anymore. Everything is overpriced, and inflation is out of control, to the point where many working-middle class New Yorkers would be hard pressed to make it big with their incomes where they live.

Thus, many of them (like my family) moved to the suburbs, where home prices are substantially cheaper and amenities (while not at NY levels) are still relatively efficient and good. Heck schooling in many aspects is better in Long Island and New Jersey, than it is in NYC. Unfortunately theres a lot of other traditional NYC residents that were straight up displaced and kicked out of their homes, many whole lived in the projects, to make way for high-end luxury apartments. Those people were simply 'left behind' from the prosperity of NYC's renaissance since the 1990s.

Don't get me wrong, I still love NYC. I have tons of relatives there, and I love visiting the city to do many different types of excursions. Its just that I don't find it as an attractive place to live anymore. I'd rather live in the (godforsaken) suburbs and commute to the city, even if it takes 2 hours door to door, than actually live in the city and the commute still takes 1.5-2 hours door to door. You catch my drift?

Ironically, the massive gentrification of the city has made it a great tourist hub, which is cool in my book. But it came at the cost of selling out some of the core aspects that made the city great to work and live in. But thats just the way things is, times change.

You raise some fair points but NYC is a much better city now than it was in the past.

Also, if Hillary was a "corrupt" Senator...why wasn't she convicted of anything?

Anyways, I'm not a huge Cuomo fan but he's not the horrible monster that some people portray him as.

To people in rural areas, people in NYC are thought of as crooks and gangsters even now. Our accen is mocked and thought of as sounding stupid. Trump is thought by these people, who have never set foot in the city, to represent as Ted Cruz put it, "New York Values." On a side note I hate how abhorred our accent is.


I'll respectfully disagree with the accent thing, I actually like the traditional NY accent.



You raise some fair points but NYC is a much better city now than it was in the past.

Also, if Hillary was a "corrupt" Senator...why wasn't she convicted of anything?

Anyways, I'm not a huge Cuomo fan but he's not the horrible monster that some people portray him as.


Just because she wasn't convicted of anything, does not mean she wasn't corrupt. George W. Bush was certainly not convicted of any crimes against the state and nobody (not even Republicans) would dispute that he was a corrupt President.

Also, while I agree that Cuomo is not THAT bad, he is certainly too centrist (arguably, slightly right wing) on his economic policy. I'm not saying Cynthia Nixon would do a much better job, but someone with her charisma and policy ideas would be great for the state.

But overall this video posted by INSIDER two years ago is a perfect example to the decline in NY:

bmObqz4gBb8

And by the decline, I'm not talking about the station (in fact its going through renovations as we speak), but rather the change in attitude of NY. The noob complains about the "station being dirty' and visible piping, yuckkkk 8-P" dude, you're no REAL New Yorker if you're complaining about benign sh!t like that ;D

You could tell the guy is from like Ohio or something, he doesn't represent the true essence of the city at all. Not saying thats a bad thing, but it just further proves the point that the REAL New Yorkers all live in the suburbs now because the new residents (be it guys like this or foreign investors) pushed us out. The city is certainly nicer, and the complaints this guy has about the station are soon going to be corrected:

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/16/15821866/penn-station-governor-cuomo-redevelopment

The new Moynihan Station is set to open in 2020 and it would definitely make commuting into the city much more efficient and clean! Its also blocks away from the new Hudson Yards Complex. Once again, please hear me out, I love the direction the city is taking to making it more modernized, especially for its newer residents and tourists. It also helps make many of us 'traditionalists', whom now live in the suburbs, have a better access to get to the city. Its a win for all three groups. Its just that many of the people who lived in the city for generations just feel that the city is sort of 'selling its soul' for the sake of changing with the times.

Just because she wasn't convicted of anything, does not mean she wasn't corrupt. George W. Bush was certainly not convicted of any crimes against the state and nobody (not even Republicans) would dispute that he was a corrupt President.
The difference is that she was continuously investigated and NOTHING corrupt was found.

She made mistakes and bad decisions but she's not corrupt. That is just Republican and extreme left propaganda against her.


Also, while I agree that Cuomo is not THAT bad, he is certainly too centrist (arguably, slightly right wing) on his economic policy. I'm not saying Cynthia Nixon would do a much better job, but someone with her charisma and policy ideas would be great for the state.

But overall this video posted by INSIDER two years ago is a perfect example to the decline in NY:

bmObqz4gBb8

And by the decline, I'm not talking about the station (in fact its going through renovations as we speak), but rather the change in attitude of NY. The noob complains about the "station being dirty' and visible piping, yuckkkk 8-P" dude, you're no REAL New Yorker if you're complaining about benign sh!t like that ;D

You could tell the guy is from like Ohio or something, he doesn't represent the true essence of the city at all. Not saying thats a bad thing, but it just further proves the point that the REAL New Yorkers all live in the suburbs now because the new residents (be it guys like this or foreign investors) pushed us out. The city is certainly nicer, and the complaints this guy has about the station are soon going to be corrected:

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/16/15821866/penn-station-governor-cuomo-redevelopment

The new Moynihan Station is set to open in 2020 and it would definitely make commuting into the city much more efficient and clean! Its also blocks away from the new Hudson Yards Complex. Once again, please hear me out, I love the direction the city is taking to making it more modernized, especially for its newer residents and tourists. It also helps make many of us 'traditionalists', whom now live in the suburbs, have a better access to get to the city. Its a win for all three groups. Its just that many of the people who lived in the city for generations just feel that the city is sort of 'selling its soul' for the sake of changing with the times.

I see what you're saying.

However, I wouldn't say that NYC reputation has declined though.

The difference is that she was continuously investigated and NOTHING corrupt was found.

She made mistakes and bad decisions but she's not corrupt. That is just Republican and extreme left propaganda against her.


Bro.... please don't buy into that bullsh!t. There's a laundry list of reasons why Hillary was not a great candidate, due to her controversial past. Heres a few examples:

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I see what you're saying.

However, I wouldn't say that NYC reputation has declined though.


It hasn't, its just changed. Thats all.

Bro.... please don't buy into that bullsh!t. There's a laundry list of reasons why Hillary was not a great candidate, due to her controversial past. Heres a few examples:


It hasn't, its just changed. Thats all.


I've seen half of these videos, and these were reasons why I didn't support Hillary in the first place. She got really unfortunate on the email scandal situation but it doesn't change the fact that it was on her and she broke the law when there was supposed to be justice for the 4 soldiers who got killed in Benghazi, and she had many other issues too and I didn't like how she campaigned the 2016 election. Her campaign was like a weaker, way watered down version of Obama's "Yes We Can" from 2008. I've said it millions of times on these boards but I still thought Trump was worse at the end of the day but I still was NOT going to sit out and NOT vote like a lot of idiots did. I'm voting midterm and I will be there 2020 and beyond.

Other than her position on the Iraq War (which most Americans at the time supported), none of things are.concrete evidence that she's corrupt or bad.

Those videos are conspiratorial, exaggeration, or just false. I'm sorry but I'm not going to jump on the "Hillary is the epitome of evil" train.

I was a member of that train back in 2015. I actually was very anti-Hillary and strongly pro-Bernie back then. It's because of videos and "information" like those that made me think that way. However, luckily, I hopped off that train as soon I found out that the evidence of her "corruption" was faulty and a bit misogynistic.

I still view Bill Clinton as a more successful Ronald Reagan. This is a guy who RAN on promising welfare reform, for example, and got rid of AFDC. That was one of his campaign promises. He enthusiastically deregulated businesses and is a big reason we live in a 21st century gilded age in terms of monopolies. I don't trust the Clintons and I think her victory would've, in the long run, been a bigger gift to the GOP than Trump.

Clinton was a terrible Senator and was massively corrupt. She practically changed the image of the Democratic Party in NY from the Progressive workers party it was known for much of the 20th century to the modern Neo-Liberal Party of today. I'm not saying she didn't do any good things as Senator, but clearly (and her terrible loss to Trump proves that), intentionally or not, lead to a decline in the Democratic Party, in particular to how it operates in the Empire State (just look at the current primary between Cuomo and Nixon as an example).

Trump, similarly, contributed to NY's decline with his overpriced real estate boom in the 1980s-2000s. Essentially, setting the rise for gentrification and the displacement of millions of traditional/blue collar NY residents. In today's world a TV show like All in the Family (which was set in Queens) or The Jeffersons (which focused on a working class African-American family moving up from Queens to Manhattan) wouldn't really fit in with the modern NYC echo system, simply because its not relatable anymore. Everything is overpriced, and inflation is out of control, to the point where many working-middle class New Yorkers would be hard pressed to make it big with their incomes where they live.

Thus, many of them (like my family) moved to the suburbs, where home prices are substantially cheaper and amenities (while not at NY levels) are still relatively efficient and good. Heck schooling in many aspects is better in Long Island and New Jersey, than it is in NYC. Unfortunately theres a lot of other traditional NYC residents that were straight up displaced and kicked out of their homes, many whole lived in the projects, to make way for high-end luxury apartments. Those people were simply 'left behind' from the prosperity of NYC's renaissance since the 1990s.

Don't get me wrong, I still love NYC. I have tons of relatives there, and I love visiting the city to do many different types of excursions. Its just that I don't find it as an attractive place to live anymore. I'd rather live in the (godforsaken) suburbs and commute to the city, even if it takes 2 hours door to door, than actually live in the city and the commute still takes 1.5-2 hours door to door. You catch my drift?

Ironically, the massive gentrification of the city has made it a great tourist hub, which is cool in my book. But it came at the cost of selling out some of the core aspects that made the city great to work and live in. But thats just the way things is, times change.


What about other sitcoms from the 1970s? ???

What about other sitcoms from the 1970s? ???


I was refering to sitcoms in the 70s/80s that featured main characters from NYC.

I was refering to sitcoms in the 70s/80s that featured main characters from NYC.


I'm pretty sure there were more characters from back then that would hate today's society?

To people in rural areas, people in NYC are thought of as crooks and gangsters even now. Our accen is mocked and thought of as sounding stupid. Trump is thought by these people, who have never set foot in the city, to represent as Ted Cruz put it, "New York Values." On a side note I hate how abhorred our accent is.


Trump does sound and look like a New York mafia mobster ;D

Trump does sound and look like a New York mafia mobster ;D


See. No. His accent sounds like how most people from here did and still do. But his being unable to speak coherently is unique to him. Tired of people thinking the accent sounds crooked or crude.

We're going to be build a waul and it's going to be the greatest waul the world has ever seen! I ordered, I ORDERED, two Big Macs and two filet-o-fish and for the drink I said "a chocolate milkshake please, I want something healthy", and the cash register guy he looks up to me and says "Why not a diet coke?" Have you ever seen a skinny person drinking diet coke? I say no way, there's no way folks. And what's the deal with hairspray? HAIRSPRAY? You want me to believe, in a sealed room, there's no openings, and if I use hairspray, that that affects the ozone layer? C'mon give me a break. I say no way folks, there's no way.

Trump’s accent is identical to like the stereotypical Northeastern used car salesman. “LET Merhh tell YOU! This 2007 Saturn ION is TREMENDOUS!!!!.....believe meh.” ;D.

Trump’s accent is identical to like the stereotypical Northeastern used car salesman. “LET Merhh tell YOU! This 2007 Saturn ION is TREMENDOUS!!!!.....believe meh.” ;D.


That's exactly what it sounds like ;D

Trump’s accent is identical to like the stereotypical Northeastern used car salesman. “LET Merhh tell YOU! This 2007 Saturn ION is TREMENDOUS!!!!.....believe meh.” ;D.


HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!

The first time I heard that accent was in those old school movies centered around New York!

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!

The first time I heard that accent was in those old school movies centered around New York!


I never even knew it was a real accent. I thought it was just a way shady/slimy people on TV talked, like mafia/gangster people, and yes, used cars salesmen. :P

Strangely enough, I never noticed Trump's accent while watching the Apprentice. But I did notice the accent in Seinfeld. In Everybody Loves Raymond, I thought it was an Italian American accent. Oh yeah, those two dorks in Home Alone is probably what cemented it early in life. ;D

I never even knew it was a real accent. I thought it was just a way shady/slimy people on TV talked, like mafia/gangster people, and yes, used cars salesmen. :P

Strangely enough, I never noticed Trump's accent while watching the Apprentice. But I did notice the accent in Seinfeld. In Everybody Loves Raymond, I thought it was an Italian American accent. Oh yeah, those two dorks in Home Alone is probably what cemented it early in life. ;D


You'd be surprised. While the accent is most prominent in Italians, other ethnicities also have relatively similar 'Nu Yawk' Accents. Primarily African Americans, Irish, Jews, Peurto Ricans, & Dominicans are known to have pretty heavy accents.

However, the younger generation has seen to have started to lost the distinct New York/Jersey accents (like how Bernie 'Sandahs' talks)

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I'm a New Yorker through and through but I hate most New York accents especially the Italian-American accent 8-P.

(I mean no offense).

I prefer our accent to sounding like a bunch of Dan Rather, high vocal fry, flat monotone clones. The accent in all its variety makes New Yorkers unique. There is no shame to be had in it. Why sound like Dan Rather?

I'm a New Yorker through and through but I hate most New York accents especially the Italian-American accent 8-P.

(I mean no offense).


Back in summer 2011 when I got off the plane to the NYC Airport I had to hold my laugh multiple times because the typical NY accent became actually real. It was a lot funnier in real life than actually seeing it in the movies.

One of the things that used to really crack me up about All In The Family was how Archie Bunker would say "terlet" instead of "toilet," as in , "Hey, Edit', we're all out of terlet papuh!"

Are there New Yorkers who really talk like that?

Another good video regarding NY accents:


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The Manhattan one sounds like a coffee induced Janice from F'R'I'E'N'D'S ;D

Which I'm watching on Nick@Nite right now :-X

Actually, I take that back. The Queens one sounds like Janice ;D.

Actually, I take that back. The Queens one sounds like Janice ;D.


Oh. My. Gwaaud. I was about to correct you on that *Janice laugh* hehheheheheheh

Oh. My. Gwaaud. I was about to correct you on that *Janice laugh* hehheheheheheh


"OHH.... MAH.... GAWD....

ID'S CHANDLAH BING!.... Hehehe" ;D

Back in summer 2011 when I got off the plane to the NYC Airport I had to hold my laugh multiple times because the typical NY accent became actually real. It was a lot funnier in real life than actually seeing it in the movies.


Bro you'd be surprised on how accurate the television's depiction of the New York accent is. If anything, I don't think it does it enough justice.

"OHH.... MAH.... GAWD....

ID'S CHANDLAH BING!.... Hehehe" ;D


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This is my hell... :(

An iconic scene from The Sopranos

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Back in summer 2011 when I got off the plane to the NYC Airport I had to hold my laugh multiple times because the typical NY accent became actually real. It was a lot funnier in real life than actually seeing it in the movies.

LOL.

The funny thing is that I also don't like the Georgian accent (to be fair this applies to most Southern accents).

One of the things that used to really crack me up about All In The Family was how Archie Bunker would say "terlet" instead of "toilet," as in , "Hey, Edit', we're all out of terlet papuh!"

Are there New Yorkers who really talk like that?

Yes but they're mostly old white New Yorkers (ages 60 and up).

LOL.

The funny thing is that I also don't like the Georgian accent (to be fair this applies to most Southern accents).


I feel like Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi are the strongest southern states with the strongest southern accents. While Georgia has a lot too at least we have Atlanta which has a different type of southern accent (including the southern style type rappers) and Atlanta is the most liberal/free part of Georgia without a question so it gives the state some balance.

You want to know how a REAL southern black accent sounds like? Listen to Shannon Sharpe on here, and he happened to grow up in Georgia too. Won a couple Super Bowls with the Broncos and Ravens. My parents met him and his older brother when they were much younger.

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We're going to be build a waul and it's going to be the greatest waul the world has ever seen! I ordered, I ORDERED, two Big Macs and two filet-o-fish and for the drink I said "a chocolate milkshake please, I want something healthy", and the cash register guy he looks up to me and says "Why not a diet coke?" Have you ever seen a skinny person drinking diet coke? I say no way, there's no way folks. And what's the deal with hairspray? HAIRSPRAY? You want me to believe, in a sealed room, there's no openings, and if I use hairspray, that that affects the ozone layer? C'mon give me a break. I say no way folks, there's no way.


;D

I'm a New Yorker through and through but I hate most New York accents especially the Italian-American accent 8-P.

(I mean no offense).


I like most accents occasionally I can't understand most of them.

One of the things that used to really crack me up about All In The Family was how Archie Bunker would say "terlet" instead of "toilet," as in , "Hey, Edit', we're all out of terlet papuh!"

Are there New Yorkers who really talk like that?


That might have been exaggerated.

Another good video regarding NY accents:


1hrA9-6o4tI


The Manhattan one sounds like a coffee induced Janice from F'R'I'E'N'D'S ;D

Which I'm watching on Nick@Nite right now :-X


;D

"OHH.... MAH.... GAWD....

ID'S CHANDLAH BING!.... Hehehe" ;D


;D

_tyuQrWu1F0


Maggie Wheeler is funny.

And this is why I hated NJ. You have your bland Dan Rather accent, I have mine. Let it be. Stop trying to stigmatize mine and render it extinct.

And this is why I hated NJ. You have your bland Dan Rather accent, I have mine. Let it be. Stop trying to stigmatize mine and render it extinct.


Lol I get where you're coming from. Generally speaking, the closer North in Jersey one is, the heavier their 'Nu Yawk'/'Nauf Joursey' accent is. South Jerseyans, aka the Philly burbs, sound like a bunch of General American Dan Rathers to me. South Eastern Jersey (Cape May, Cumberland Counties) have a bit of Southern accent weirdly enough.

All in all, for much sh!t we North(& Central) Jerseyans and New Yorkers get for our accent, I prefer it to the weird South Jersey accents. Like they say Coffee as 'Cahfeah' not 'Cauwfee like us ;D.

They also have different nomenclature for different things like; Jimmies for Sprinkles, Water Ice (whatever that sh!t is) for Italian Ice, Hoagies for Subs/Heroes, etc. etc.

An interesting article regarding where New Yorkers move to:

https://streeteasy.com/blog/where-are-new-yorkers-moving-other-expensive-places/

Lol I get where you're coming from. Generally speaking, the closer North in Jersey one is, the heavier their 'Nu Yawk'/'Nauf Joursey' accent is. South Jerseyans, aka the Philly burbs, sound like a bunch of General American Dan Rathers to me. South Eastern Jersey (Cape May, Cumberland Counties) have a bit of Southern accent weirdly enough.

All in all, for much sh!t we North(& Central) Jerseyans and New Yorkers get for our accent, I prefer it to the weird South Jersey accents. Like they say Coffee as 'Cahfeah' not 'Cauwfee like us ;D.

They also have different nomenclature for different things like; Jimmies for Sprinkles, Water Ice (whatever that sh!t is) for Italian Ice, Hoagies for Subs/Heroes, etc. etc.


It's not as exaggerated as what you see on TV. Even like, Tony Soprano - James Gandolfini had to go to a vocal coach because he didn't sound "tough" enough despite being an Italian from north NJ. His real voice:
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Now, I've lived in Bensonhurst and Bay Ridge in Brooklyn and I lived from ages 6-11 in Lakewood, NJ. The most stereotypical features of my accent are I say: "youse", "RAD-e-ate-er" instead of radiator, dawg instead of dog, dawr instead of door.

It's not as exaggerated as what you see on TV. Even like, Tony Soprano - James Gandolfini had to go to a vocal coach because he didn't sound "tough" enough despite being an Italian from north NJ. His real voice:
YcNhjbdrcAY

Now, I've lived in Bensonhurst and Bay Ridge in Brooklyn and I lived from ages 6-11 in Lakewood, NJ. The most stereotypical features of my accent are I say: "youse", "RAD-e-ate-er" instead of radiator, dawg instead of dog, dawr instead of door.


I agree, like all accents it’s a bit overblown. Also ditto, my family also migrated from Brooklyn, NY to Middlesex County where we live now. I notice that the younger generations, in both New York and Jersey, don’t really have as much of a heavy accent as our parents (and especially grand parents) did.

Mine, like yours, is pretty General American, but I do pronounce some words more stereotypically NYC/NJish. I say “Wata” instead of “Water”, “Cawfee” instead of “Coffee”. Some words with ‘t’s in them I don’t really pronounce it and instead it sounds like a ‘d’ like I say “Donu..d” instead of “Donut” of “Restaraund” instead of “Restaurant”.

I also use NY lingo like “heroes” for sandwich’s, “low key” when describing something discrete, etc. etc.

I agree, like all accents it’s a bit overblown. Also ditto, my family also migrated from Brooklyn, NY to Middlesex County where we live now. I notice that the younger generations, in both New York and Jersey, don’t really have as much of a heavy accent as our parents (and especially grand parents) did.

Mine, like yours, is pretty General American, but I do pronounce some words more stereotypically NYC/NJish. I say “Wata” instead of “Water”.


You should talk to Rainbowz on how she says "water" in Philly.... "werter"  ;D

I agree, like all accents it’s a bit overblown. Also ditto, my family also migrated from Brooklyn, NY to Middlesex County where we live now. I notice that the younger generations, in both New York and Jersey, don’t really have as much of a heavy accent as our parents (and especially grand parents) did.

Mine, like yours, is pretty General American, but I do pronounce some words more stereotypically NYC/NJish. I say “Wata” instead of “Water”, “Cawfee” instead of “Coffee”. Some words with ‘t’s in them I don’t really pronounce it and instead it sounds like a ‘d’ like I say “Donu..d” instead of “Donut” of “Restaraund” instead of “Restaurant”.

I also use NY lingo like “heroes” for sandwich’s, “low key” when describing something discrete, etc. etc.


Same, I say cawfee and wata and donud. My accent is close to Tony Soprano's in the first season of that show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ua0Kg7Gqg I also say whatchamacallit, and things like pickyoon (Italian slang) and other Italian slang words. It gets even more thick when I'm angry.

I do think it is fluid, though. I don't think the accents are disappearing. I think it's more a matter of economic status and who raised you. My brother-in-law was born in 1969 and has only a slight accent; my sister, his wife, was born in 73 and has a verrry stereorypical accent. Both were raised in the same area within ten blocks of each other and my mother, who raised my sisters as a single mother, doesn't have much of an accent. Neither did her father, who was of the first generation of my family born here in the US. I think the accent will still be around in 50 years, it just depends on where you live, class, and who raised you.

I agree, like all accents it’s a bit overblown. Also ditto, my family also migrated from Brooklyn, NY to Middlesex County where we live now. I notice that the younger generations, in both New York and Jersey, don’t really have as much of a heavy accent as our parents (and especially grand parents) did.

Mine, like yours, is pretty General American, but I do pronounce some words more stereotypically NYC/NJish. I say “Wata” instead of “Water”, “Cawfee” instead of “Coffee”. Some words with ‘t’s in them I don’t really pronounce it and instead it sounds like a ‘d’ like I say “Donu..d” instead of “Donut” of “Restaraund” instead of “Restaurant”.

I also use NY lingo like “heroes” for sandwich’s, “low key” when describing something discrete, etc. etc.
I'm also a NY native, I was born in Queens and lived there for about 11 years till I moved to North Carolina. Even though I've been living in the south for half my life I still say things that my come off New York is like caw fee, wata, store as stawr, but my accent is pretty General American for the most part. I do use a lot of NY lingo as well like Hero, Mad, Wats good, Word, Son, etc. Some of things I say may come off as Northeastern or "Yankee" to people outside the northeast.

You should talk to Rainbowz on how she says "water" in Philly.... "werter"  ;D


Damn so many Northeasteners are on this forum :o.

Yeah I have heard that accent numerous times. I have a lot of friends that go to school in South Jersey and Philly so it’s pretty common to hear “wudder” or “werter”, “cahfee”, “dahnut”, etc.

Also they use different terminology for things like referring to “subs” as “hoagies”, or calling seasonal beach tourists as “shoobies” instead “Benny’s” like we Central/North Jerseyans refer to them.

The big borderline of the state is arguably around Six Flass Great Adventure (the best Six Flags in the country mind you :D, although the Six Flags in Georgia is pretty good too though) which is about 1 hour south of NYC and 1 hour north of Philly. Since it’s also a major destination for other communities in the Northeast (like people from the Lehigh Valley, Pittsburg, Boston, etc.) you tend to see a wide variety of accents from across the region. It’s pretty funny actually ;D.

I'm also a NY native, I was born in Queens and lived there for about 11 years till I moved to North Carolina. Even though I've been living in the south for half my life I still say things that my come off New York is like caw fee, wata, store as stawr, but my accent is pretty General American for the most part. I do use a lot of NY lingo as well like Hero, Mad, Wats good, Word, Son, etc. Some of things I say may come off as Northeastern or "Yankee" to people outside the northeast.


Yeah I have a lot of family in Queens. I notice that in Queens, that since its the biggest borough in land mass and in its the most diverse borough in the city (and the most diverse county in the country I believe) that its accent is the most varied.

The Southern Queens accent (JFK region or the Jamaica, Ozone Park, neighborhoods.) is more kin to like a Brooklyn accent, since its so close it. While in North Queens (so essentially the Laguardia region or places like Astoria or Long Island City) is more kin to like a Bronx accent in the eastern areas or a stereotypical hipsteresque accent found in like Chelsea or Greenwich Village by LIC, due to its proximity to the Whitestone Bridge and Midtown Manhattan respectively.

Then you got Central Queens which is in a league of its own. The areas by like Bayside and Flushing have a stereotypical 'Lawng-A-Land' accent. The areas around by CitField are the most distinct in the borough (essentially where you'll find the most 'Janice' or 'Joey' sounding people in the borough ;D).

A perfect example of the Brooklyn v. Queens divide in accents, is the way Jay Z and 50 Cent talks. To outsiders, these guys sound pretty similar, but to any Brooklynite or Queensnite, these accents (while subtly different in the grand scheme of things) can be picked apart:

The Posterboy for Brooklyn: Jay Z

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The Posterboy for Queens: 50 Cent

WBORUZPtB4s

Yeah I have a lot of family in Queens. I notice that in Queens, that since its the biggest borough in land mass and in its the most diverse borough in the city (and the most diverse county in the country I believe) that its accent is the most varied.

The Southern Queens accent (JFK region or the Jamaica, Ozone Park, neighborhoods.) is more kin to like a Brooklyn accent, since its so close it. While in North Queens (so essentially the Laguardia region or places like Astoria or Long Island City) is more kin to like a Bronx accent in the eastern areas or a stereotypical hipsteresque accent found in like Chelsea or Greenwich Village by LIC, due to its proximity to the Whitestone Bridge and Midtown Manhattan respectively.

Then you got Central Queens which is in a league of its own. The areas by like Bayside and Flushing have a stereotypical 'Lawng-A-Land' accent. The areas around by CitField are the most distinct in the borough (essentially where you'll find the most 'Janice' or 'Joey' sounding people in the borough ;D).
Yea true, I grew up in LIC in the Ravenswood projects so I can see midtown manhattan right from my front window. Queens is a pretty diverse borugh being so vast and so culturely diverse. A lot of people I know from Brooklyn moved to Southeastern Queens due to it being a lil less crime and Southeast queens has a high concentration of Black people. Where I lived most of the black people lived in public housing but there was a large Hispanic, Indian, Asain and White population in LIC, so I never'd had the typical "hood" NY experience because my neighborhood was so diverse and had one of the lowest crime rates in the city.Western Queens (Near Manhattan) is the most urban experience you'll get in Queens since it's very dense and have the best subway access. Central Queens (around the Van Wyck) is pretty much the typical Queens experience, not as dense as Brooklyn or Manhattan but not too suburban like Staten Island while Eastern Queens (Near the Nassu county line) is pretty nice and affluent but far removed from the trains.

This is going on in my state:

https://www.app.com/story/money/business/main-street/2018/07/02/nj-suburbs-cool-again-millennials-others-return-affordable-homes/717281002/

Sort of a reversal from several years of Millennials flocking to the cities/inner ring NYC suburbs for closer proximity to work, as many move back to the suburbs to escape VERY high living costs of the city.

Also, a similar trend is brewing in the West Coast, primarily in the Silicon Valley Region:

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The 2018-2019 Television Season is about to start :D!

It seems like this season will be pretty transformative, in the sense that it will be the first to be devoid of many core cultural TV shows that were paramount to the 2010s. Perhaps its a sign that the core 2010s have ended and that we have entered a new cultural era, something we wont fully be able to rectify until potentially years laters. For the foreseeable future in the realm of television, 18'-19' seems to be a new 'fresh start', although not as 'loud' as the shows that premiered last year like Sheldon, The Good Doctor, Seal Team, and Dynasty to name a few, which have all been granted second seasons. However, these news shows set to premiere seem to signal a change in tune for something greater, or not, but certainly 'different', if that makes any sense.


https://www.refinery29.com/2018/08/206147/fall-tv-shows-2018-new-series

Some of the most notable shows that are set to premiere this Fall seem to be all marketed/created under Warner Bros. Studios for the CW and or Netflix:

The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina will debut on Netflix in October
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The reboot of Charmed will debut on the CW in October
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The thrilling new black comedy Maniac will debut on Netflix in September
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What are some of your guys thoughts?

Something interesting I found the other day:


https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/abby-huntsman-join-view-host/story?id=57452847

CMH9RbKoeCE


As Autumn of 2018 dawns closer & closer, there's going to be a bit of a shakeup in the long running ABC talk show, The View. The show is going to have a new host. Her name is Abby Huntsman and she's coming from FOX News, yep... that FOX News. This was done to 'balance conservative view points on the show'. However, this would be the first time in the shows history where there will be more than one conservative guest on the show. So it appears that ABC is trying to massively pander to the right. The new season is set to air next week, she's replacing Sara Haines who is going to be on GMA.

Ok so it’s February 4th, 2019, and there are some important updates.... depending on how you define ‘important’  ;D.

In short, while 2018 proved to be a pivotal year for television, in particular for the 2010s decade, it looks to be that 2019 is going to be even more pivotal with even more iconic 2010s TV shows getting proper endings or cancelled:

https://m.eonline.com/news/1010775/why-is-fuller-house-ending#photo-963107

It almost seemed like this exodus just came out of nowhere. Nonetheless, it’s going to be a shame seeing these shows go :\'(.

Ok so it’s February 4th, 2019, and there are some important updates.... depending on how you define ‘important’  ;D.

In short, while 2018 proved to be a pivotal year for television, in particular for the 2010s decade, it looks to be that 2019 is going to be even more pivotal with even more iconic 2010s TV shows getting proper endings or cancelled:

https://m.eonline.com/news/1010775/why-is-fuller-house-ending#photo-963107

It almost seemed like this exodus just came out of nowhere. Nonetheless, it’s going to be a shame seeing these shows go :\'(.


Even Fuller House is ending this year

Mid 2010s were more of dark tv