I hear a lot of people predicting that pop culture will change dramatically as we enter the mid 10's. The thing is though, the early 2000's were not all that different than the mid 2000's. They were different but not dramatically. So I'm not even sure anymore. Do you think this current trend will continue and just change slightly, or do you think the mid 2010's (Starting 2013) will form a new identity and new culture?

Early 00s: Still a fair showing for VHS tapes in society
Mid 00s: DVDs for general society, if you allow for the exception of recording television shows on VHS

Early 00s: Music such as "You Sang To Me" by Marc Anthony
Mid 00s: Music such as "Where Is The Love" by Black Eyed Peas

Early 00s: Beginning of Survivor, Fear Factor
Mid 00s: Beginning of America's Next Top Model, Pimp My Ride

Early 00s: World Wrestling Federation (yeah it changed in mid-2002 but the "WWF" kind of lingered at first)
Mid 00s: World Wrestling Entertainment

Looks like a pretty dramatic change to me.

To answer the question, 2013 will be not just different, but VERY different. No doubt.

To answer the question, 2013 will be not just different, but VERY different. No doubt.

The change is now

The change is now


Yeah I think so too, I've been hearing all this indie stuff on my top 40 station. The music scene is definitely shifting away from the so called "autotune" now. This was in the top 5 countdown tonight.  :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVW81bXo0s

Early 00s: Still a fair showing for VHS tapes in society
Mid 00s: DVDs for general society, if you allow for the exception of recording television shows on VHS

Early 00s: Music such as "You Sang To Me" by Marc Anthony
Mid 00s: Music such as "Where Is The Love" by Black Eyed Peas

Early 00s: Beginning of Survivor, Fear Factor
Mid 00s: Beginning of America's Next Top Model, Pimp My Ride

Early 00s: World Wrestling Federation (yeah it changed in mid-2002 but the "WWF" kind of lingered at first)
Mid 00s: World Wrestling Entertainment

Looks like a pretty dramatic change to me.

These are not very good examples.

DVD's came out late 90's and VHS Tapes were not totally unused in the mid 00's either.

These are two completely different genres of music. Where is the Love by Black Eyed Peas actually defines the early 2000's more than Mark Anthony's You sang to Me. Where is the love has the exact same feel as an early 2000's song rather than a mid 00's song which I come to think of "My Humps" or Don't Phunk With My Heart" by Black Eyed Peas. That's the same thing as saying another pop song from the same time is different than a Hip-Hop song. Totally different genres. Rap was still popular in the early 2000's. Especially the Black Eyed Peas style Hip Hop. Nelly and Eminem were popular. R&B was also popular like Destiny's Child and Ashanti. It wasn't ALL teen pop in the early 2000's. Music in my opinion sounded almost the same with the early 2000's and mid 2000's. (Especially everything up to 2005)

The last two aren't really dramatic. These things can happen anytime on television and Fear Factor and Survivor were all still very popular throughout the mid 00's.

I really don't know. I'm supposed to think there is a big difference because I'm only 17, but the difference is so minimal to me. The big difference and change to me occoured in 08'. That's why I think we will still have the same culture with little changes throughout the mid 10's. The overall 00's culture has been occouring pretty much my whole life as I can remember it probably up until 2008, so both the early 2000's and mid 2000's are kinda similar to me and the late 90's aren't THAT far apart. The big change from 90's to the 00's vibe seems as if it happened in 1998, but don't quote me on this because I was very little then. Anyway that's just how I feel, I will accept an "I told you so" if you guys are right.  ;D

Early 00s: Beginning of Survivor, Fear Factor
Mid 00s: Beginning of America's Next Top Model, Pimp My Ride

Looks like a pretty dramatic change to me.


ANTM is dramatically different from Survivor and Fear Factor? I don't understand, are you saying its in the same caliber as the trashy VH1/MTV reality shows? Honestly, the early seasons of ANTM were pretty serious and more like Survivor/American Idol/Amazing Race/Big Brother (in that it focused more on the competition than trashy drama). Only recently has it become more and more ridiculous.

I agree they are different but not dramatically. I do agree 2003 was the start of the 00's culture. But 2008 was much more of a dramatic change.

These are not very good examples.

DVD's came out late 90's and VHS Tapes were not totally unused in the mid 00's either.

These are two completely different genres of music. Where is the Love by Black Eyed Peas actually defines the early 2000's more than Mark Anthony's You sang to Me. Where is the love has the exact same feel as an early 2000's song rather than a mid 00's song which I come to think of "My Humps" or Don't Phunk With My Heart" by Black Eyed Peas. That's the same thing as saying another pop song from the same time is different than a Hip-Hop song. Totally different genres. Rap was still popular in the early 2000's. Especially the Black Eyed Peas style Hip Hop. Nelly and Eminem were popular. R&B was also popular like Destiny's Child and Ashanti. It wasn't ALL teen pop in the early 2000's. Music in my opinion sounded almost the same with the early 2000's and mid 2000's. (Especially everything up to 2005)

The last two aren't really dramatic. These things can happen anytime on television and Fear Factor and Survivor were all still very popular throughout the mid 00's.

I really don't know. I'm supposed to think there is a big difference because I'm only 17, but the difference is so minimal to me. The big difference and change to me occoured in 08'. That's why I think we will still have the same culture with little changes throughout the mid 10's. The overall 00's culture has been occouring pretty much my whole life as I can remember it probably up until 2008, so both the early 2000's and mid 2000's are kinda similar to me and the late 90's aren't THAT far apart. The big change from 90's to the 00's vibe seems as if it happened in 1998, but don't quote me on this because I was very little then. Anyway that's just how I feel, I will accept an "I told you so" if you guys are right.  ;D


I think your a little misguided and like you said, you are only 17 so you are likely to remember the year 2000 the way a 2007 born will remember today. Different genres or not Marc Anthony is a typical example of 2000 music, Black Eyes Peas for 2003 onwards music. And even if you think it had the 'feel' of an early 2000s song (which I disagree with and think 2003 is overall more like 2004 than 2002, and maybe even 2005 is more like 2003) it can't define what it wasn't a part of. That's like saying Star Wars Episode III defines the late 1970s, never mind that it came out in 2005. The early 2000s was 2000-02. The '3' year of any decade is "mid", at least in the mathematical sense. And as far as Fear Factor or Survivor, compare for example season one of Fear Factor with season three/four. Same show, but obvious it's a different era.

ANTM is dramatically different from Survivor and Fear Factor? I don't understand, are you saying its in the same caliber as the trashy VH1/MTV reality shows? Honestly, the early seasons of ANTM were pretty serious and more like Survivor/American Idol/Amazing Race/Big Brother (in that it focused more on the competition than trashy drama). Only recently has it become more and more ridiculous.


It clearly said BEGINNING of Survivor and Fear Factor. And it's got nothing to do with being a "serious" competiton it's the fashion, social slang, attitudes and so on of the contestants and in some ways the hosts that are different in 2000-01/02 and 2003+

It clearly said BEGINNING of Survivor and Fear Factor. And it's got nothing to do with being a "serious" competiton it's the fashion, social slang, attitudes and so on of the contestants and in some ways the hosts that are different in 2000-01/02 and 2003+


I still don't see them as dramatically different.

I still don't see them as dramatically different.


So between now and the time I posted my comment, you've actually just gone and watched an episode from season one of Fear Factor and then watched an episode from season three/four? Wow, at least your fast forward button works.

I think your a little misguided and like you said, you are only 17 so you are likely to remember the year 2000 the way a 2007 born will remember today. Different genres or not Marc Anthony is a typical example of 2000 music, Black Eyes Peas for 2003 onwards music. And even if you think it had the 'feel' of an early 2000s song (which I disagree with and think 2003 is overall more like 2004 than 2002, and maybe even 2005 is more like 2003) it can't define what it wasn't a part of. That's like saying Star Wars Episode III defines the late 1970s, never mind that it came out in 2005. The early 2000s was 2000-02. The '3' year of any decade is "mid", at least in the mathematical sense. And as far as Fear Factor or Survivor, compare for example season one of Fear Factor with season three/four. Same show, but obvious it's a different era.


I see what you mean, I was 12 in '03 and even then it felt way different from 2002. LOL

So between now and the time I posted my comment, you've actually just gone and watched an episode from season one of Fear Factor and then watched an episode from season three/four? Wow, at least your fast forward button works.


All I needed was for you to clarify what you meant. Once you did that I gave my opinion based on your explanation. I didn't need to go back and rewatch anything because I remember early seasons of both Survivor and ANTM.

Yeah I think so too, I've been hearing all this indie stuff on my top 40 station. The music scene is definitely shifting away from the so called "autotune" now. This was in the top 5 countdown tonight.  :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVW81bXo0s


People still use autotune?  :-\\ Last time I heard autotune was in 2008, what music do yall listen to? LOL

People still use autotune?  :-\\ Last time I heard autotune was in 2008, what music do yall listen to? LOL


I'd say I heard it quite a bit till maybe 2010 (Ke$ha is a good example of 2010 autotune) , I don't think it's big anymore but some people like to claim it is (on this board I've seen posts that say it's all autotune now). I'm guessing a lot of people just haven't paid attention for a few years and they're probably still going by 2010 or something lol.

These are not very good examples.

DVD's came out late 90's and VHS Tapes were not totally unused in the mid 00's either.

These are two completely different genres of music. Where is the Love by Black Eyed Peas actually defines the early 2000's more than Mark Anthony's You sang to Me. Where is the love has the exact same feel as an early 2000's song rather than a mid 00's song which I come to think of "My Humps" or Don't Phunk With My Heart" by Black Eyed Peas. That's the same thing as saying another pop song from the same time is different than a Hip-Hop song. Totally different genres. Rap was still popular in the early 2000's. Especially the Black Eyed Peas style Hip Hop. Nelly and Eminem were popular. R&B was also popular like Destiny's Child and Ashanti. It wasn't ALL teen pop in the early 2000's. Music in my opinion sounded almost the same with the early 2000's and mid 2000's. (Especially everything up to 2005)

The last two aren't really dramatic. These things can happen anytime on television and Fear Factor and Survivor were all still very popular throughout the mid 00's.

I really don't know. I'm supposed to think there is a big difference because I'm only 17, but the difference is so minimal to me. The big difference and change to me occoured in 08'. That's why I think we will still have the same culture with little changes throughout the mid 10's. The overall 00's culture has been occouring pretty much my whole life as I can remember it probably up until 2008, so both the early 2000's and mid 2000's are kinda similar to me and the late 90's aren't THAT far apart. The big change from 90's to the 00's vibe seems as if it happened in 1998, but don't quote me on this because I was very little then. Anyway that's just how I feel, I will accept an "I told you so" if you guys are right.  ;D


I can understand why feel that way but that has a lot to do with the fact that you're still young (I mean in terms of being a child) and back then you weren't worrying about stuff like that so of course some of that stuff wasn't that different to you. I do agree with you on the DVD/VHS thing, I was still using my VHS until 2006/2007. When I look back there was a big difference between the early 00s and mid 00s. In the mid 2000s from 2003/04-2006 Myspace was the thing and Youtube was something brand new and awesome to people who were in my age group and older. Not many people had digital cable until late the late 00s.

All I needed was for you to clarify what you meant. Once you did that I gave my opinion based on your explanation. I didn't need to go back and rewatch anything because I remember early seasons of both Survivor and ANTM.


Apart from the fact that Pearl Islands is pre-All Stars, do you really consider it to be on par with Borneo? I'm tempted to even say Amazon is a different time to Borneo. And by the time you get to Guatemala (2005) we're already in a different world to at least Thailand. As a Survivor watcher for 25 seasons now, I would say that Thailand is the last season to be like Borneo.

I see what you mean, I was 12 in '03 and even then it felt way different from 2002. LOL


Once you get into your mid 20's you'll notice that it will be harder to distinguish between years. I am 26 now and 2012 feels exactly like 2009. Especially if you are not into current pop culture or if you don't adopt new technology immediately. I am finally noticing that year boundaries start to blurr and that's the reason why I find such discussions (e. g. 2010 starting to show its age) ridiculous.

Once you get into your mid 20's you'll notice that it will be harder to distinguish between years. I am 26 now and 2012 feels exactly like 2009. Especially if you are not into current pop culture or if you don't adopt new technology immediately. I am finally noticing that year boundaries start to blurr and that's the reason why I find such discussions (e. g. 2010 starting to show its age) ridiculous.


With the '02 and '03 situation, I was talking in terms of pop culture shift, not age. That 2010 thread made no sense to me whatsoever.

With the '02 and '03 situation, I was talking in terms of pop culture shift, not age. That 2010 thread made no sense to me whatsoever.


Yes, but (young) age is probably a factor that makes pop culture shifts look stronger than they actually were.

Early 00s: Still a fair showing for VHS tapes in society
Mid 00s: DVDs for general society, if you allow for the exception of recording television shows on VHS

Early 00s: Music such as "You Sang To Me" by Marc Anthony
Mid 00s: Music such as "Where Is The Love" by Black Eyed Peas

Early 00s: Beginning of Survivor, Fear Factor
Mid 00s: Beginning of America's Next Top Model, Pimp My Ride

Early 00s: World Wrestling Federation (yeah it changed in mid-2002 but the "WWF" kind of lingered at first)
Mid 00s: World Wrestling Entertainment

Looks like a pretty dramatic change to me.


In all honesty, I thought you were being sarcastic there. But apparently you're being very serious about this.

I doubt you'll be saying the same thing in 15 years from now, though. 2001 or 2006 - it'll all be a blurr by then (unless your name is Jeff and you still enjoy Shakira's Laundry Service album  ;)).

People still use autotune?  :-\\ Last time I heard autotune was in 2008, what music do yall listen to? LOL

lol Autotune has been used as the standard for almost every single song on the Top 40 since 2008.

Apart from the fact that Pearl Islands is pre-All Stars, do you really consider it to be on par with Borneo? I'm tempted to even say Amazon is a different time to Borneo. And by the time you get to Guatemala (2005) we're already in a different world to at least Thailand. As a Survivor watcher for 25 seasons now, I would say that Thailand is the last season to be like Borneo.


Borneo was definitely different from the seasons that followed. The budget was clearly smaller and the "game" hadn't quite been "invented" yet (hopefully I don't need to explain this), there was more emphasis on the surviving aspect than the strategy aspect. Everyone thought Gretchen would win because she was the best worker/outdoor person. But if that's the case you should have compared apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. The first season of ANTM also had that smaller-budget quality and serious focus. As for things like fashion...again, apples to oranges. You're comparing the fashion of a modeling competition to the fashions of people stranded on an island :o

In all honesty, I thought you were being sarcastic there. But apparently you're being very serious about this.

I doubt you'll be saying the same thing in 15 years from now, though. 2001 or 2006 - it'll all be a blurr by then (unless your name is Jeff and you still enjoy Shakira's Laundry Service album  ;)).


Well 1991 vs. 1996 isn't a "blur" to me now, or even 1986 vs. 1989. Saw them as distinct then, see as distinct today, and will probably always see them that way.

I think it will be slightly different, but I actually don't think we'll see a culture that's completely different until the mid 2030's when the middle third of this century starts. I think 1993-2033 or so will eventually be thought of as a long era, maybe as the 'Millennial era'. I don't think people really think of time in decades anymore, I think it's gone back to the pre-20th century state when time is thought of in long eras like the Victorian, Renaissance, etc.

Not many people had digital cable until late the late 00s.


Actually my family had digital cable by about 2003, maybe even earlier. I think it even existed in the mid '90s. But yes it probably wasn't 40% penetration the standard I use for technology being 'dominant' until maybe 2008ish.

Borneo was definitely different from the seasons that followed. The budget was clearly smaller and the "game" hadn't quite been "invented" yet (hopefully I don't need to explain this), there was more emphasis on the surviving aspect than the strategy aspect. Everyone thought Gretchen would win because she was the best worker/outdoor person. But if that's the case you should have compared apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. The first season of ANTM also had that smaller-budget quality and serious focus. As for things like fashion...again, apples to oranges. You're comparing the fashion of a modeling competition to the fashions of people stranded on an island :o


No, I think YOU are comparing apples with oranges.

Borneo had more survival aspect? Watch Palau - and that's season 10! You've got a significant portion of Bobby Jon airtime to begin with. And then there's Kim making people angry by not contributing. Then you've got the Shark, the clam and any other animal that Tom and Ian catch, either by themselves or with the Palau locals who showed them how to fish traditionally. And that's not even getting started on the rats that the contestants had to deal with. And this is just what I can think of without watching any footage as I type.

And find the comment where I said in exact words anything along the lines of America's Next Top Model clothing should be like Survivor clothing. The social attitudes/dialogue about topics outside of the show were quite distinct when you consider only three year difference and before you start saying I'm just comparing models talk with castaways talk, just look at any model that has done anything survivor-like in their life, or any survivor contestant that was/had been a model in real life 2000-02 episodes vs. 2003+ episodes. For example, Brian Heidik who won Survivor: Thailand is what you'd expect a current/former male model to be like in the early 2000s, while Ryan Aiken who was voted off first in Survivor : Amazon is what you'd expect a current/former male model to be like in the mid-2000s.

So in short, you are just jumping to self-misguided assumptions :o

I think it will be slightly different, but I actually don't think we'll see a culture that's completely different until the mid 2030's when the middle third of this century starts. I think 1993-2033 or so will eventually be thought of as a long era, maybe as the 'Millennial era'. I don't think people really think of time in decades anymore, I think it's gone back to the pre-20th century state when time is thought of in long eras like the Victorian, Renaissance, etc.


So you don't think time had sped up though? For example, remembering that we went from records to cassette tapes to CDs to MP3s to MP4s in only a number of decades. Or VHS to DVD to Blu-ray etc.

Yes, but (young) age is probably a factor that makes pop culture sheeshs look stronger than they actually were.

EDIT: I am pretty sure I have written "changes" and not sheeshs. What kind of moderation is this here???? Editing my posts without announcement?????  >:(


see above  >:(

Actually my family had digital cable by about 2003, maybe even earlier. I think it even existed in the mid '90s. But yes it probably wasn't 40% penetration the standard I use for technology being 'dominant' until maybe 2008ish.


I never said it didn't exist in the early 00s or even in the 90s, I mean my grandparents did in the early 00s (and even now) but most people didn't have digital cable like that in the early 00s.

lol Autotune has been used as the standard for almost every single song on the Top 40 since 2008.


...Since when? Ok I need to listen to the radio because even in Hip Hop I have not heard a single song in autotune since '08. BTW, autotune isn't a new thing anyway, Zapp and Roger was known for using autotune.

I never said it didn't exist in the early 00s or even in the 90s, I mean my grandparents did in the early 00s (and even now) but most people didn't have digital cable like that in the early 00s.


Digital cable became a technology over here in Germany around 1997. I only know so since I have seen promotion videos for it on Youtube. I don't know anybody who actually had it - even in the early-mid 2000s.

I'd say I heard it quite a bit till maybe 2010 (Ke$ha is a good example of 2010 autotune) , I don't think it's big anymore but some people like to claim it is (on this board I've seen posts that say it's all autotune now). I'm guessing a lot of people just haven't paid attention for a few years and they're probably still going by 2010 or something lol.


I figured some people were exaggerating LOL. 

So you don't think time had sped up though? For example, remembering that we went from records to cassette tapes to CDs to MP3s to MP4s in only a number of decades. Or VHS to DVD to Blu-ray etc.


No, I disagree with Ray Kurzweil that technology and time are still accelerating. I think there was an acceleration of time from about 1800 to 1995, and since then it's slowed down. Change is still rapid but not as quick as it was. Case in point, MP3 to MP4 and DVD to Blu-Ray are pretty minor changes. I'm pretty sure DVD still outsells Blu-Ray and I still use MP3s, and the differences between the two formats are pretty small anyways.

A video game from 2002 is much more like a 2012 game than like a 1992 game.

see above  >:(


Yeah I think the server that supports this site might be located in a psychiatric hospital. There's some awkward posts running around...

No, I disagree with Ray Kurzweil that technology and time are still accelerating. I think there was an acceleration of time from about 1800 to 1995, and since then it's slowed down. Change is still rapid but not as quick as it was. Case in point, MP3 to MP4 and DVD to Blu-Ray are pretty minor changes. I'm pretty sure DVD still outsells Blu-Ray and I still use MP3s, and the differences between the two formats are pretty small anyways.

A video game from 2002 is much more like a 2012 game than like a 1992 game.


You have a point, I'll give you that much.

No, I think YOU are comparing apples with oranges.

Borneo had more survival aspect? Watch Palau - and that's season 10! You've got a significant portion of Bobby Jon airtime to begin with. And then there's Kim making people angry by not contributing. Then you've got the Shark, the clam and any other animal that Tom and Ian catch, either by themselves or with the Palau locals who showed them how to fish traditionally. And that's not even getting started on the rats that the contestants had to deal with. And this is just what I can think of without watching any footage as I type.

And find the comment where I said in exact words anything along the lines of America's Next Top Model clothing should be like Survivor clothing. The social attitudes/dialogue about topics outside of the show were quite distinct when you consider only three year difference and before you start saying I'm just comparing models talk with castaways talk, just look at any model that has done anything survivor-like in their life, or any survivor contestant that was/had been a model in real life 2000-02 episodes vs. 2003+ episodes. For example, Brian Heidik who won Survivor: Thailand is what you'd expect a current/former male model to be like in the early 2000s, while Ryan Aiken who was voted off first in Survivor : Amazon is what you'd expect a current/former male model to be like in the mid-2000s.

So in short, you are just jumping to self-misguided assumptions :o


This STILL doesn't make sense...you realize Thailand and Amazon were part of the same television season and were only filmed a few months apart right? Amazon was filmed in late 2002 so I'm not sure how Ryan Aiken apparently went all "mid-00s male model" on us contrasting from Brian Heidik a just a few months before.

And I never said the survival aspect was ignored in the later seasons, but you have to admit by the time Palau rolled around there was definitely a bigger focus on strategy and alliances. The catching fish and making fire/rice stuff is mostly supplementary now. It wasn't like that in Borneo though until Richard Hatch invented the concept of alliances halfway into the season. And at the time, the editors didn't quite know how to handle that kind of storyline like they do now where the whole season story-arc revolves around it.

This STILL doesn't make sense...you realize Thailand and Amazon were part of the same television season and were only filmed a few months apart right? Amazon was filmed in late 2002 so I'm not sure how Ryan Aiken apparently went all "mid-00s male model" on us contrasting from Brian Heidik a just a few months before.

And I never said the survival aspect was ignored in the later seasons, but you have to admit by the time Palau rolled around there was definitely a bigger focus on strategy and alliances. The catching fish and making fire/rice stuff is mostly supplementary now. It wasn't like that in Borneo though until Richard Hatch invented the concept of alliances halfway into the season. And at the time, the editors didn't quite know how to handle that kind of storyline like they do now where the whole season story-arc revolves around it.


I think you might be confusing Palau with a season like Cook Islands or China. There was plenty of strategy in Palau but it didn't have a large airtime ratio over the survival aspect. Jeff and Janu even left the game for non-strategic reasons. Amazon was filmed in LATE 2002 but it was still part of 2003 culture, not 2002 culture.

lol Autotune has been used as the standard for almost every single song on the Top 40 since 2008.


and it has become annoying.

So you don't think time had sped up though? For example, remembering that we went from records to cassette tapes to CDs to MP3s to MP4s in only a number of decades. Or VHS to DVD to Blu-ray etc.


It's amazing how technology has changed over the past 35 years.

No, I disagree with Ray Kurzweil that technology and time are still accelerating. I think there was an acceleration of time from about 1800 to 1995, and since then it's slowed down. Change is still rapid but not as quick as it was. Case in point, MP3 to MP4 and DVD to Blu-Ray are pretty minor changes. I'm pretty sure DVD still outsells Blu-Ray and I still use MP3s, and the differences between the two formats are pretty small anyways.

A video game from 2002 is much more like a 2012 game than like a 1992 game.


I don't know if we can accurately measure something like technological change in holistic sense but in the area of information technology, it has been accelerating over the past 15 years, your comparisons are extremely selective, looking the big picture the internet/digital revolution is the biggest technological change of the past 50 years. Exponential change is hard is notice when a new technology is in it's early developmental stages(like the internet in the late '60s, '70s, '80s) but at a certain threshold it explodes and you start to see noticeable changes in relatively short periods of time(the late '90s-present), I don't see how you cannot notice the immense changes in information technology since the late '90s ???.

A video game from 2002 is much more like a 2012 game than like a 1992 game.


I actually agree with that. Best example is probably Max Payne 2 (2003) vs. Max Payne 3 (2012). There was definetly not much development and the game atmosphere is nearly the same. That's probably because video games became as realistic as they could be already in the first half of the 2000's. How far could it go? The only difference is that the games became bigger: 4 CDs vs. 4 DVDs as for Max Payne.

I still think in some ways things are changing more than ever, cell phones have evolved TREMENDOUSLY in the last 5 years. I'm shocked everyday by how far phones have come. We now have mobile internet connections faster than home connections available (of course data is insanely expensive), a 50 Mbps LTE connection was absolutely unimaginable back in 2007. I disagree with this idea of "slow down" really. The evolution just happens in different ways and different things over time.

I don't know if we can accurately measure something like technological change in holistic sense but in the area of information technology, it has been accelerating over the past 15 years, your comparisons are extremely selective, looking the big picture the internet/digital revolution is the biggest technological change of the past 50 years. Exponential change is hard is notice when a new technology is in it's early developmental stages(like the internet in the late '60s, '70s, '80s) but at a certain threshold it explodes and you start to see noticeable changes in relatively short periods of time(the late '90s-present), I don't see how you cannot notice the immense changes in information technology since the late '90s ???.


If intotech was still accelerating than the changes from 1990-2000 would seem small compared to the changes between 2000-2010. It's still going fast, but I wouldn't say the rate of change is exponential. It's the same with world population. It's commonly believed world population is still growing at exponential pace. It's not. World population grew exponentially from the Black Death of the 1300s up to the 1960s when the growth rate peaked at about 2% a year. The world population grew like this:

1 billion: 1804
2 billion: 1927 (123 years)
3 billion: 1959 (32 years)
4 billion: 1974 (15 years)
5 billion: 1987 (13 years)
6 billion: 1999 (12 years)
7 billion: 2012 (13 years)

So as you can see, in terms of gross numbers (which is not the growth rate per se) the rate of world population growth stopped increasing in the recent past, though it's still fast and we'll likely hit 8 billion before 2035 I'd say, possibly even before 2030. I think it's the same with technology, its rate of growth has slowed slightly but it's still fast enough that the layperson would buy into the idea it's still growing exponentially. Of course you can't quantify technological change as easily as population.

Yes, but (young) age is probably a factor that makes pop culture sheeshs look stronger than they actually were.

EDIT: I am pretty sure I have written "changes" and not sheeshs. What kind of moderation is this here???? Editing my posts without announcement?????  >:( I didn't even know this word since I am not a native speaker. Either close the thread if it does not match with the forum rules or leave it alone, Mr. or Mrs. Moderator


I think you may have accidentally mistyped "shifts" (not "changes"). "Shifts-without-the-f" gets moderated automatically, no human interaction required. ;)

Actually my family had digital cable by about 2003, maybe even earlier. I think it even existed in the mid '90s. But yes it probably wasn't 40% penetration the standard I use for technology being 'dominant' until maybe 2008ish.


My family first got digital cable back in the year 2000, I remember it vividly, we had just moved and I remember getting the new high tech cable box installed. Of course I had already experienced similar technology when we had satellite tv at our old house. Satellite we first got back in '96 and the on screen guide and hundreds of channels were amazing for that time, being able to hit an "info" button and see a description of your program, etc. that was amazing stuff in 1996. Before that we had these old zeinth cable boxes with the big red numbers and if you wanted to know anything about the program you were watching you had to look in the tv guide.  ;D

I still think in some ways things are changing more than ever, cell phones have evolved TREMENDOUSLY in the last 5 years. I'm shocked everyday by how far phones have come. We now have mobile internet connections faster than home connections available (of course data is insanely expensive), a 50 Mbps LTE connection was absolutely unimaginable back in 2007. I disagree with this idea of "slow down" really. The evolution just happens in different ways and different things over time.


and we also have 4G networks.

I think you may have accidentally mistyped "shifts" (not "changes"). "Shifts-without-the-f" gets moderated automatically, no human interaction required. ;)


Thanks for clearing that up.

being able to hit an "info" button and see a description of your program, etc. that was amazing stuff in 1996. Before that we had these old zeinth cable boxes with the big red numbers and if you wanted to know anything about the program you were watching you had to look in the tv guide.  ;D


I know that is not common anymore in the US, but didn't they still have teletext in the 90's?

That's pretty old technology (70's) but it is still famous and common over here - a bit like primitive internet on your TV screen with news and the tv program. Especially if you still have analog cable (like I have in my room), it is very practical and faster than to look-up on the internet.

Yeah I think so too, I've been hearing all this indie stuff on my top 40 station. The music scene is definitely shifting away from the so called "autotune" now. This was in the top 5 countdown tonight.  :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVW81bXo0s


Yes this is true  the dance pop aspect of music is fading
Carly Rae jespen is upbeat in tempo but is not a dance pop song so shes an exception.

If intotech was still accelerating than the changes from 1990-2000 would seem small compared to the changes between 2000-2010. It's still going fast, but I wouldn't say the rate of change is exponential. It's the same with world population. It's commonly believed world population is still growing at exponential pace. It's not. World population grew exponentially from the Black Death of the 1300s up to the 1960s when the growth rate peaked at about 2% a year. The world population grew like this:

1 billion: 1804
2 billion: 1927 (123 years)
3 billion: 1959 (32 years)
4 billion: 1974 (15 years)
5 billion: 1987 (13 years)
6 billion: 1999 (12 years)
7 billion: 2012 (13 years)

So as you can see, in terms of gross numbers (which is not the growth rate per se) the rate of world population growth stopped increasing in the recent past, though it's still fast and we'll likely hit 8 billion before 2035 I'd say, possibly even before 2030. I think it's the same with technology, its rate of growth has slowed slightly but it's still fast enough that the layperson would buy into the idea it's still growing exponentially. Of course you can't quantify technological change as easily as population.


The change in information technology from '00-'10 is smaller compared to you, do you have any other sources to support that because most informed sources(in this particular area) contradict your statement, Moore's law has still been holding, it will reach it's limit within the next 10-15 years(but even that could be extended a lot further in the future).

The change in information technology from '00-'10 is smaller compared to you, do you have any other sources to support that because most informed sources(in this particular area) contradict your statement, Moore's law has still been holding, it will reach it's limit within the next 10-15 years(but even that could be extended a lot further in the future).


I didn't necessarily say it was smaller I just don't think it's exponentially increasing. Exponential growth goes along a logarhythmic curve. I think the growth from 2000-2010 is comparable or maybe a tiny bit less than 1990-2000, but if it was exponential it would be significantly greater than the change of the 90's.

If we are speaking in terms of technology, no doubt has the shift from 00-09 been the greatest. No other decade before it has had such a dramatic change. It's probably because technology is changing and improving so rapidly, more and more every decade. As for pop culture trends and fashion, 00-09 seems like it has the weakest and most little change especially when comparing to the 80's and 90's imho.

If we are speaking in terms of technology, no doubt has the shift from 00-09 been the greatest. No other decade before it has had such a dramatic change. It's probably because technology is changing and improving so rapidly, more and more every decade. As for pop culture trends and fashion, 00-09 seems like it has the weakest and most little change especially when comparing to the 80's and 90's imho.


I agree with you about technology for sure. 2000 and 2009 are different worlds in that sense. But I also think 2000 and 2009 are two different worlds in pop culture. I mean, Vengaboys vs Justin Bieber?

I agree with you about technology for sure. 2000 and 2009 are different worlds in that sense. But I also think 2000 and 2009 are two different worlds in pop culture. I mean, Vengaboys vs Justin Bieber?

I agree too that there was a change just like every decade but it was not as significant of a change than 90-99 or 90-89 in terms of fashion and pop culture.

I agree too that there was a change just like every decade but it was not as significant of a change than 90-99 or 90-89 in terms of fashion and pop culture.


Well, I never said fashion was too different. Clothing that "worked" in 2000, would likely still "work" in 2009. Although I couldn't imagine Hammer pants from 1990 as looking too out of place in 1999 either.

I think we're already noticing a change compared to 2010. You can tell there's a change in music that hasn't gone full blast yet. People are getting tired of Facebook. Things seem to be getting more toned down, not as flashy or crazy, almost has an early 2000's vibe to it. I like it. :3

I think we're already noticing a change compared to 2010. You can tell there's a change in music that hasn't gone full blast yet. People are getting tired of Facebook. Things seem to be getting more toned down, not as flashy or crazy, almost has an early 2000's vibe to it. I like it. :3


Some people notice it, others don't.

I think we're already noticing a change compared to 2010. You can tell there's a change in music that hasn't gone full blast yet. People are getting tired of Facebook. Things seem to be getting more toned down, not as flashy or crazy, almost has an early 2000's vibe to it. I like it. :3


you mean  a toned down  90s vibe      like the 80s to 90s toned down feeling

Some people notice it, others don't.


I'm seeing it.

Pop culture is sort of too small today to matter as much. Its like the 1700s. they had a fashion yeah. but it wasnt all pervasive like the 70s or 80s.

Pop culture is sort of too small today to matter as much. Its like the 1700s. they had a fashion yeah. but it wasnt all pervasive like the 70s or 80s.


Huh ???, I don't know what to make of this statement, it is soooo wrong on soooo many levels.

Pop culture is sort of too small today to matter as much. Its like the 1700s. they had a fashion yeah. but it wasnt all pervasive like the 70s or 80s.


How was fashion like the 1700's?  ???

Pop culture is sort of too small today to matter as much. Its like the 1700s. they had a fashion yeah. but it wasnt all pervasive like the 70s or 80s.


I don't necessarily agree with that.  The "hipster" fad today which is about being unique and rebelling against mainstream pop culture has become pop culture and pretty much all hipsters are the same.  As far as pop culture's influence, the late '00s through today is probably the most its had since the '90s. 

I don't necessarily agree with that.  The "hipster" fad today which is about being unique and rebelling against mainstream pop culture has become pop culture and pretty much all hipsters are the same.  As far as pop culture's influence, the late '00s through today is probably the most its had since the '90s.


I think the difference is two fold. For one thing, today's pop culture trends don't last nearly as long. Generally speaking only a few months, the only long-enduring trends of today are the ones that started way back in the 90's. Another thing is that just about everyone under 30 was into pop culture in the 60's, 70's, 80's, nowadays people often grow too old for pop culture before they turn 20. So it doesn't effect the populace as much and you have people feeling like they belong in microgenerations.