2 more years?
5+ more years?
10 more years?
More than 10 more years?  :o :o

More than 10 more years?
Neoliberalism itself is dying.

2 more years?
5+ more years?
10 more years?
More than 10 more years?  :o :o


by 2015 it will be faded

I think we need to stop calling it a 'recession' and call it what it is: a failure of the entire economic system. They've been saying since day one "the recession is over" to pacify and appease the public, wishing doesn't make it so.

in 2009 they said it was over

and yet u hear in these tough economic  times as a  tag line in ads for products

We need to create more jobs.

I think we need to stop calling it a 'recession' and call it what it is: a failure of the entire economic system. They've been saying since day one "the recession is over" to pacify and appease the public, wishing doesn't make it so.


Exactly.  I hate to be pessimistic, but I think it's going to take a collapse (or near collapse) before people (lawmakers) realize that the current system is broken, and can't be salvaged no matter how much 'money' is pumped into it.  It could be a while.

When 10% of the population owns 90% of the wealth, there's obviously a problem.  And when you can't get a half-way decent job without first going into tens of thousands dollars in debt, there's a problem.  So unfortunately, I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

Exactly.  I hate to be pessimistic, but I think it's going to take a collapse (or near collapse) before people (lawmakers) realize that the current system is out of date in this global economy, and can't be salvaged no matter how much 'money' is pumped into it.  It could be a while.

Maybe a globalized economy is the problem. Jobs always go to the places where people are willing to take less money. Maybe the economy needs to be more localized.

Maybe a globalized economy is the problem. Jobs always go to the places where people are willing to take less money. Maybe the economy needs to be more localized.


Well I don't think globalization is going away anytime soon (and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing).  I think the problem all comes down to greed at the top.  We're never going to get out of this until that changes (which will probably require legal intervention).  As a country, we can't continue to consume more than we produce and expect to have a surplus.

I think we need to stop calling it a 'recession' and call it what it is: a failure of the entire economic system. They've been saying since day one "the recession is over" to pacify and appease the public, wishing doesn't make it so.


Interesting!

We need to create more jobs.


Yup.

Exactly.  I hate to be pessimistic, but I think it's going to take a collapse (or near collapse) before people (lawmakers) realize that the current system is broken, and can't be salvaged no matter how much 'money' is pumped into it.  It could be a while.

When 10% of the population owns 90% of the wealth, there's obviously a problem.  And when you can't get a half-way decent job without first going into tens of thousands dollars in debt, there's a problem.  So unfortunately, I think it'll get worse before it gets better.


Sadly I agree with you  :-\\, no offense to you of course!

Well I don't think globalization is going away anytime soon (and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing).  I think the problem all comes down to greed at the top.  We're never going to get out of this until that changes (which will probably require legal intervention).  As a country, we can't continue to consume more than we produce and expect to have a surplus.

I agree that this is unsustainable but I believe globalism as a concept was based on greed. The globalist movement was greed hidden behind a smokescreen. It was a way for business owners to use labor practices that would be illegal in the United States. I think globalization will probably go away once enough people are put out of work because jobs continue to go to where the labor is cheaper. People in first world nations will no longer be able to afford to buy these products produced in other nations because they are put out of work. Businesses will start going out of business and then there will be a movement to keep the economy more local.

I think the 'Recession' started in December 2007?  ???

I agree that this is unsustainable but I believe globalism as a concept was based on greed. The globalist movement was greed hidden behind a smokescreen. It was a way for business owners to use labor practices that would be illegal in the United States. I think globalization will probably go away once enough people are put out of work because jobs continue to go to where the labor is cheaper. People in first world nations will no longer be able to afford to buy these products produced in other nations because they are put out of work. Businesses will start going out of business and then there will be a movement to keep the economy more local.


I wonder if the recession has peaked (at its worse) yet?

I agree that this is unsustainable but I believe globalism as a concept was based on greed. The globalist movement was greed hidden behind a smokescreen. It was a way for business owners to use labor practices that would be illegal in the United States. I think globalization will probably go away once enough people are put out of work because jobs continue to go to where the labor is cheaper. People in first world nations will no longer be able to afford to buy these products produced in other nations because they are put out of work. Businesses will start going out of business and then there will be a movement to keep the economy more local.

That's already happening actually (part of the reason why China's economy is dragging).  You're right that globalism, as we currently know it, is based on greed.  When I said it's not necessarily a bad thing, I mean that it has the potential to be a beautiful thing -- the entire globe working in unison, allocating resources to create a better life for everyone.  But I don't think the human race is ready for that yet, and probably won't be in our lifetimes.

I think the 'Recession' started in December 2007?  ???



you mean before Barack was president?  ???

I wonder if the recession has peaked (at its worse) yet?


If my understanding of the word "recession" is right (at least two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth) then technically, it's been over for a while now.

Of course, that doesn't mean much to someone that still cant find a job. I'm beginning to worry that a sluggish economy will be the defining feature of this entire decade.

Globalization is here to stay, unfortunately for the people who go to work everyday it is based on greed and not the greater good.  When people who go to work everyday realize that labor has to go global, just as greedy corporate heads have gone global, then maybe we will be able to get a fair share.

If my understanding of the word "recession" is right (at least two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth) then technically, it's been over for a while now.

Of course, that doesn't mean much to someone that still cant find a job. I'm beginning to worry that a sluggish economy will be the defining feature of this entire decade.


Agreed on both points.  What happened to Japan appears to be happening to us.


I agree that this is unsustainable but I believe globalism as a concept was based on greed. The globalist movement was greed hidden behind a smokescreen. It was a way for business owners to use labor practices that would be illegal in the United States. I think globalization will probably go away once enough people are put out of work because jobs continue to go to where the labor is cheaper. People in first world nations will no longer be able to afford to buy these products produced in other nations because they are put out of work. Businesses will start going out of business and then there will be a movement to keep the economy more local.


"When it gets down to it — talking trade balances here — once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwave ovens in Tadzhikistan and selling them here — once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel — once the Invisible Hand has taken away all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity — y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else:
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery"
  - Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash, 1992.

I work in the "microcode" business.  (At my office, we're about 50/50 split on whether Snow Crash was a dystopia or a utopia, LOL.)


and then there will be a movement to keep the economy more local.


This exists; it's the Maker Movement.  It's not often you have Forbes, SF Chronicle and the Washington Post in confused agreement about something they recognize as important, even if they don't fully grok why.

It's not all about keeping things local, because locality isn't the only issue here.  But locality is a big part of it.  Unemployed?  Bored?  Both?  Find a local hackerspace and go fix the being bored part.  After you've stopped the being bored part, you might even solve the job part, because there's even a buck to be made as venture capital slowly wakes up to what could well be the next big thing.

I think what will happen is that the economies of so many countries will collapse so far to the point that people will demand protectionism, fewer H1B visas granted, and anti outsourcing measures. It will be forced to happen because there will be so many people on public assistance and unable to buy things for other than basic living that it gets in the way of the "bottom line".

I think what will happen is that the economies of so many countries will collapse so far to the point that people will demand protectionism, fewer H1B visas granted, and anti outsourcing measures. It will be forced to happen because there will be so many people on public assistance and unable to buy things for other than basic living that it gets in the way of the "bottom line".


And since I'm already on a science fiction and economics kick tonight:

Required reading for everyone in this thread: a short story by Marshall Brain, Manna.

(It starts with the issue you cite: what happens when a fast food restaurant figures out how to operate without managers as well as without employees, and everyone - white-collar and blue-collar alike - can be replaced by robots who work even cheaper than outsourced labor.)

The f**king recession will end just in time for the next one to start.
>:(

It all depends on whose recession, and I don't mean country divisions I a mean economic divisions. 

It all depends on whose recession, and I don't mean country divisions I a mean economic divisions.


America I guess, since I live there/here.

According to the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugmen, we are not in a recession, we are in a depression. The thing is, we could get out of this in a matter of months if the idiots in charge of the House would get off their @$$es and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Instead of creating job bills, they create abortion bills. Here is a simple way to get the U.S. out of this depression:

1. Get rid of the Bush tax cuts for the 1%.

2. Invest in infrastructure. Rebuild U.S. roads, bridges, schools, etc. and put many construction workers to WORK.

3. Invest in renewables:  Solar, wind, etc. This also creates new jobs.

4. Hold Wall Street accountable and regulate them so they can't ruin this country like they already had.

By doing that, the economy is bound to come back fairly quickly.


Cat

According to the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugmen, we are not in a recession, we are in a depression. The thing is, we could get out of this in a matter of months if the idiots in charge of the House would get off their @$$es and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Instead of creating job bills, they create abortion bills. Here is a simple way to get the U.S. out of this depression:

1. Get rid of the Bush tax cuts for the 1%.

2. Invest in infrastructure. Rebuild U.S. roads, bridges, schools, etc. and put many construction workers to WORK.

3. Invest in renewables:  Solar, wind, etc. This also creates new jobs.

4. Hold Wall Street accountable and regulate them so they can't ruin this country like they already had.

By doing that, the economy is bound to come back fairly quickly.


Cat


Karma.

The recession is technically over. But we'll be in a sheeshty economic state for the rest of the decade most likely. China and Europe might worsen the recovery.

The recession is technically over. But we'll be in a sheeshty economic state for the rest of the decade most likely. China and Europe might worsen the recovery.


3 more years

It isn't just a recession, it is a world wide depression, and now we are being hit with drought which will raise the price of food.  You can speculate on how long it will last, but there isn't anyone who really knows.  It took 10 years and a world war to get us out of the last one, but we had a large manufacturing base, something that was shipped out when Reagan "opened up the Pacific Rim" and gave tax breaks to companies who moved their operations overseas where they could get cheaper labor.  I am not against imports, but I am against American companies like Nike,  who call themselves USA but don't make anything, not even a shoelace, here, and are able to claim tax credits because of it. 

until we get more money back.

It isn't just a recession, it is a world wide depression, and now we are being hit with drought which will raise the price of food.  You can speculate on how long it will last, but there isn't anyone who really knows.  It took 10 years and a world war to get us out of the last one, but we had a large manufacturing base, something that was shipped out when Reagan "opened up the Pacific Rim" and gave tax breaks to companies who moved their operations overseas where they could get cheaper labor.  I am not against imports, but I am against American companies like Nike,  who call themselves USA but don't make anything, not even a shoelace, here, and are able to claim tax credits because of it.


food prices have already been rasied by a dollar

It isn't just a recession, it is a world wide depression, and now we are being hit with drought which will raise the price of food.  You can speculate on how long it will last, but there isn't anyone who really knows.  It took 10 years and a world war to get us out of the last one, but we had a large manufacturing base, something that was shipped out when Reagan "opened up the Pacific Rim" and gave tax breaks to companies who moved their operations overseas where they could get cheaper labor.  I am not against imports, but I am against American companies like Nike,  who call themselves USA but don't make anything, not even a shoelace, here, and are able to claim tax credits because of it.


Looks like the 10s is like 1936 all over again!  :o

food prices have already been rasied by a dollar


That's why it's getting more expensive to go food shopping.

That's why it's getting more expensive to go food shopping.


Go 2 stop and shop and see

That's why it's getting more expensive to go food shopping.


No joke! I can't believe the amount of money I spend on groceries in general per week.

Looks like the 10s is like 1936 all over again!  :o


Exactly...This is the worst economic depression since the crash of 29. People hear that but don't want to understand it.  The only reason it doesn't feel that way is because now we have unemployment compensation, social security, and welfare to forestall long breadlines. 

Exactly...This is the worst economic depression since the crash of 29. People hear that but don't want to understand it.  The only reason it doesn't feel that way is because now we have unemployment compensation, social security, and welfare to forestall long breadlines.


And the debt keeps growing... The dollar will collapse eventually.  It's like trying to put a bandade on a gaping wound.  It'll slow down the bleeding, but at some point it needs surgery (i.e. drastic changes to the economic system).

Go 2 stop and shop and see


I go to Pathmark.

No joke! I can't believe the amount of money I spend on groceries in general per week.


just to feed a family.

This is actually a pretty serious look at the ideologies behind Keynes and Hayek.

GTQnarzmTOc

Which way should we choose,
More bottom up or more top-down?
The fight continues,
Keynes and Hayek, Second Round.

(You can find Round 1 in our random YouTube thread.)

I'm a Chicago-school guy at heart, but I'm poking my nose around modern monetary theory, if for no reason other than that every time the ECB promises to bail out Europe, or Bernanke hints at QE3, I make money, and every time some moron in Washington or Germany talks about the need for austerity, I lose money. 

I say we print our way out of the mess for a few years, and then, when the immediate crisis is over, everyone gets a ringside seat for Keynes vs. Hayek, Round 3.

I LIKE HAYEK!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ChpOvOWRL9Y/T5nPkYb2aXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/Htzs04zkohE/s1600/001.jpg

I LIKE HAYEK!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ChpOvOWRL9Y/T5nPkYb2aXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/Htzs04zkohE/s1600/001.jpg


Finally, we agree on something!  (The Paradox of Thrift: Saving Selma Hayek from the big gold-backed spider!)

I LIKE HAYEK!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ChpOvOWRL9Y/T5nPkYb2aXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/Htzs04zkohE/s1600/001.jpg


YUM!  8)