I voted, are you kidding? heck no!   :o

A lot of people don't understand the extent to which our economy, and the world economy, was demolished by the greed of the past 30 years.  This is the worst situation since the great depression, which took 10 years to overcome, and some countries didn't ever really recover.  Just as in the great depression some made out just fine on the backs of the millions who lost everything through no fault of there own.

A lot of people don't understand the extent to which our economy, and the world economy, was demolished by the greed of the past 30 years.  This is the worst situation since the great depression, which took 10 years to overcome, and some countries didn't ever really recover.  Just as in the great depression some made out just fine on the backs of the millions who lost everything through no fault of there own.


You know what I just learned? They didn't call it a depression until it was almost over!

Yes, I agree with you, we're paying for our 'transgressions' we've had since the 80's.

We need money to survive,that's the name of the game.

We need money to survive,that's the name of the game.


Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.

Looks like I am in the minority here.  I think we have hit rock bottom, but I agree with Danoota that there won't be a quick recovery from it.  It will take years and hopefully people have learned from it all.  Credit is not always a good thing and save, save, save. 

We could well see another dip.  The present hoopla over foreclosures is in the end irrelevant because almost all of those foreclosures will proceed once the dust settles.  In fact this will tend to "dam up" the foreclosures, and when they resume, expect a flood of distressed properties to hit the market.

What amazes me is how the politicians play fast-and-loose with the proclamation that "the recession is over".  What this TECHNICALLY means is that the economy has stopped shrinking.  However this does not mean that the damage has been reversed.  Claiming that the "recession is over" is like telling a guy who fell off the Empire State Building to not worry, because he finally hit the sidewalk.

Unemployment is high... Consumer spending is continuing to shrink... The only thing on the growth pattern is government spending, funded by T-bills sold to the Chinese.

I said it's Lady GaGa's fault (but it should say It's all Cleveland's fault since my city IS the Butt of America)!

Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.


or else it's going to be gone.

I said it's Lady GaGa's fault (but it should say It's all Cleveland's fault since my city IS the Butt of America)!


Lady Gaga shouldn't be to blame.

Lady Gaga shouldn't be to blame.


Should Cleveland?

Should Cleveland?


Cleveland from Family Guy?

or else it's going to be gone.


But if you ask for a rise, it's no surprise that they're giving none away.

Cleveland from Family Guy?


Cleveland, Ohio...

The Mistake-on-the-Lake.

Cleveland from Family Guy?


No, I love Cleveland from Family Guy!  ;D

"Lay a thousand economists end to end and they wouldn't reach a conclusion."
 - G. B. Shaw.

But if you want economists' commentary, I'd suggest my daily econoblogger fix: Yves' Smith's Naked Capitalism for debunking the spin doctors and for taking Nouriel Roubini seriously before the Crash of 2008 (which he called months in advance), Across the Curve for bond commentary (although they're in flux and may be going away, but Aleablog still does bond coverage), and Zero Hedge for the day-to-day stuff that's going on down in the trenches.

Me?  I think we're Japan - and we're due for trendless choppy range-bound trading for the next 10 years.  Sure, the Dow's up this month, but is it up because the companies that make up the indexes are actually making more money, or is it just because the USD is down vs. gold and other commodoties?  As long as the Fed keeps up with quantitative easing, we're in a slightly-inflationary mode.  Dollar down, stocks up.  So for now, buy stocks.  What happens when the music stops?  Nobody knows.  But we'll deal with that mess when we come to it.  Even if we fail, we got to enjoy the intervening years.

Now, is a 10-year depression like the one that Japan's been into since the 1990s that a great scenario?  Well, no, not really.  But does it beat the hell out of the scenarios - commercial paper market implodes, container ships cost more to run with cargo than they do to scrap, truckers don't get paid, diesel fuel doesn't make it to gas stations, food can no longer ship from farms to urban centers, and a week or two later, the cities start burning - that we faced in late 2008?  Hell, yes.  

So I went with "It's all Lada Gaga's fault."  Because her boobs are nicer to look at than Ben Bernanke's.

"Lay a thousand economists end to end and they wouldn't reach a conclusion."
 - G. B. Shaw.

But if you want economists' commentary, I'd suggest my daily econoblogger fix: Yves' Smith's Naked Capitalism for debunking the spin doctors and for taking Nouriel Roubini seriously before the Crash of 2008 (which he called months in advance), Across the Curve for bond commentary (although they're in flux and may be going away, but Aleablog still does bond coverage), and Zero Hedge for the day-to-day stuff that's going on down in the trenches.

Me?  I think we're Japan - and we're due for trendless choppy range-bound trading for the next 10 years.  Sure, the Dow's up this month, but is it up because the companies that make up the indexes are actually making more money, or is it just because the USD is down vs. gold and other commodoties?  As long as the Fed keeps up with quantitative easing, we're in a slightly-inflationary mode.  Dollar down, stocks up.  So for now, buy stocks.  What happens when the music stops?  Nobody knows.  But we'll deal with that mess when we come to it.  Even if we fail, we got to enjoy the intervening years.

Now, is a 10-year depression like the one that Japan's been into since the 1990s that a great scenario?  Well, no, not really.  But does it beat the hell out of the scenarios - commercial paper market implodes, container ships cost more to run with cargo than they do to scrap, truckers don't get paid, diesel fuel doesn't make it to gas stations, food can no longer ship from farms to urban centers, and a week or two later, the cities start burning - that we faced in late 2008?  Hell, yes.  

So I went with "It's all Lada Gaga's fault."  Because her boobs are nicer to look at than Ben Bernanke's.

I gave you 1 karma for such a nice quote at the beggining and a nice answer.

Are you kidding? Heck no!

With the announcement of the government cutbacks (in the UK) set for October 20th, it is only just beginning (again)!

Are you kidding? Heck no!

With the announcement of the government cutbacks (in the UK) set for October 20th, it is only just beginning (again)!


You're from London? Yeah, it depends on where you live.

I'm from the US, but I voted like you because there's no way (in my opinion) that we have seen the worse yet!

But if you ask for a rise, it's no surprise that they're giving none away.


I wish they were giving away free money,maybe to save our Pathmark.

What does Lady Gaga have to do with the economy? ???

What does Lady Gaga have to do with the economy? ???
Is Lady Gaga providing financial backing for the banking system?

The Potemkin Village economy of high debts and cheap oil is coming to an end.  We will have to farm and build for ourselves in the future.  No more T-bills for China.  If our economic elites don't scream and cry about the solutions, they're probably the wrong ones.

Is Lady Gaga providing financial backing for the banking system?


How much does she have?

How much does she have?
How many albums has she sold?

How many albums has she sold?


a lot I hear.

a lot I hear.
hopefully not in the bargain basket?

hopefully not in the bargain basket?


no,no bargains here.

Could we just blame it on Bush like we used to, or is it just a phase now? :-\\

How about blaming it on Canada?...Like in "South Park"? :-\\ :-\\

90% of Canadian live within 100 miles of the U.S. boarder. 

Sorry you got a crummy country.  You can grow some serious wheat until the Canadian Shield.  There the soil is no longer arable.  It gets colder than a witch's t*t up there.  Everything's frozen over eight months out of the year.  So, I don't blame Canadians for where they chose to live.  I just wonder what's going to happen to Edmonton after there's no more oil!

::)

Could we just blame it on Bush like we used to, or is it just a phase now? :-\\

How about blaming it on Canada?...Like in "South Park"? :-\\ :-\\


Why would you blame it on someone? ???

You're from London? Yeah, it depends on where you live.

I'm from the US, but I voted like you because there's no way (in my opinion) that we have seen the worse yet!


If you ask me, it's all relative. Northeast Ohio, along with a large slice of the Midwest, seems to have been in a recession for more than thirty years. There was all this talk about how great the economy was during the Reagan and Clinton years, but you'd be hard pressed to know it in this area. Even in the good times, the local unemployment rate often tops most other urban areas of the state.
Are we through the worst of the economic doldrums? I'd like to think that things are beginning to look up, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm just happy I've been able to keep a job and move to another on my own terms. Quite a few former co-workers can't say the same thing.

If you ask me, it's all relative. Northeast Ohio, along with a large slice of the Midwest, seems to have been in a recession for more than thirty years. There was all this talk about how great the economy was during the Reagan and Clinton years, but you'd be hard pressed to know it in this area. Even in the good times, the local unemployment rate often tops most other urban areas of the state.
Are we through the worst of the economic doldrums? I'd like to think that things are beginning to look up, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm just happy I've been able to keep a job and move to another on my own terms. Quite a few former co-workers can't say the same thing.


Thank You!

In the 80's and 90's, Cleveland had a Renaissance which made me feel good about Cleveland, but in areas like Slavic Village has been deteriorating for years and it may take awhile for that part of Cleveland to recover since many of the people there were Blue-Collared.

Now, I feel that Cleveland is becoming like Detroit and there's no way to go but down.... :(

I think what we need is more money.

I think what we need is more money.


Me too!  I Xeroxed a a few $20s, but none of the stores in the mall would let me buy anything with them and then security threw me out on my butt.
:(

Me too!  I Xeroxed a a few $20s, but none of the stores in the mall would let me buy anything with them and then security threw me out on my butt.
:(


serves you right!  :P

Why would you blame it on someone? ???


5 years ago we blamed everything on Bush, just because he exists...and Kanye West! ;D

5 years ago we blamed everything on Bush, just because he exists...and Kanye West! ;D


and Osama Bin Laden.

Sorry you got a crummy country.  You can grow some serious wheat until the Canadian Shield.  There the soil is no longer arable.  It gets colder than a witch's t*t up there.  Everything's frozen over eight months out of the year.  So, I don't blame Canadians for where they chose to live.  I just wonder what's going to happen to Edmonton after there's no more oil!

::)


The Canadian Shield is a lump of granite in the general direction of Quebec and Ontario.  All that farmland in Saskatchewan and Alberta that's frozen for 8 months of the year?  Wait'll global warming moves the zone of arable land north by about 100 miles over the next 50 years?

And the oil?  The oil's in the form of tar sands - and there's more of it there than there is in Saudi Arabia.  More gas in the shale than you can shake a stick at, too.  The difference between Canada and Saudi Arabia is that the Candians aren't digging their oil out of the ground and building pipelines for the gas, and the Saudis are running low on oil, and have to pay extra to liquefy the gas if they want to ship it across the Atlantic.

So Edmonton will probably be a pretty nice place once it's no longer frozen solid for 8 months of the year, and the Canadians will all be speaking American after the invasion, but who'd notice, eh? :)

Obligatory Pop Culture: The The's Heartland was actually about the UK, not Canada, but the chorus is now running through my head like an earbug.

The Canadian Shield is a lump of granite in the general direction of Quebec and Ontario.  All that farmland in Saskatchewan and Alberta that's frozen for 8 months of the year?  Wait'll global warming moves the zone of arable land north by about 100 miles over the next 50 years?

And the oil?  The oil's in the form of tar sands - and there's more of it there than there is in Saudi Arabia.  More gas in the shale than you can shake a stick at, too.  The difference between Canada and Saudi Arabia is that the Candians aren't digging their oil out of the ground and building pipelines for the gas, and the Saudis are running low on oil, and have to pay extra to liquefy the gas if they want to ship it across the Atlantic.

So Edmonton will probably be a pretty nice place once it's no longer frozen solid for 8 months of the year, and the Canadians will all be speaking American after the invasion, but who'd notice, eh? :)

Obligatory Pop Culture: The The's Heartland was actually about the UK, not Canada, but the chorus is now running through my head like an earbug.


What about Real Life's "Heartland"?
???

Anyway:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Wpdms_ruperts_land.jpg

This is the drainage basin for Hudson Bay.  It was known as Rupert's Land in from the 17th - 19th century.  When the sea levels rise, Rupert's Land will all go under water.  When the permafrost melts up north, you'll get the biggest mud puddle in the world.  I don't share your optimism for boreal agriculture.  Duluth and Toronto will teem with flood refugees....until the Great Lakes rise and become saline.  Then we set sail for Kansas!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/05/jarswim.gif

What about Real Life's "Heartland"?


Great album, but doesn't have the right lyrics.

As for the drainage basin - it's all far enough above sea level it won't matter that much.  Mud'll drain out, tons of peat, practically limitless source of topsoil once it settles itself out... at least, it'll be a lot more arable than a dust bowl. 

The really interesting action, microclimate-wise and during my lifetime, is going to be seeing the wine industry migrate from California to Washington, Oregon, and BC.  Everyone'll make it, but the varietals and terroir will change.

Back to the economy:  Today's required reading.  (Warning: a few naughty words.)  As foreclosuregate intensifies, this is how Atlas will shrug.

Great album, but doesn't have the right lyrics.

Steve Hillage produced the first album saving the band from themselves.  You should hear the "Flame" album (1985), peeeuuuw!


Back to the economy:  Today's required reading.  (Warning: a few naughty words.)  As foreclosuregate intensifies, this is how Atlas will shrug.


Never mind the sea level of the Hudson Bay drainage basin,  this economic stuff is getting so wiggy it's all blurring together.  It's like one of those word panels from "Wisconsin Death Trip."  There's a book worth reading.  It's marketed as a photography book, but the texts are much more powerful, for me at least.  The author, Michael Lesy, teaches over here at Hampshire College. 

mortgage fraud--tea party--mortgage fraud--bank fraud--candidate is not a witch--mortgage fraud...

::)

The economy is making the 'feeling' of 2010 very gloomy and stagnant. Actually, the feeling of quiet stagnation has been around since 2009.  :-\\ But it seems to get worse every year.

The economy is making the 'feeling' of 2010 very gloomy and stagnant. Actually, the feeling of quiet stagnation has been around since 2009.  :-\\ But it seems to get worse every year.




And all these raising fares of buses and tolls is getting ridiculous.  ::)

Me too!  I Xeroxed a a few $20s, but none of the stores in the mall would let me buy anything with them and then security threw me out on my butt.
:(


Unbelievable...

When Obama Xeroxes $20, they call it money...but when YOU Xerox $20, they call it counterfeit! >:(

Unbelievable...

When Obama Xeroxes $20, they call it money...but when YOU Xerox $20, they call it counterfeit! >:(


unless you can get away with it.

unless you can get away with it.


That's when they send me.  Bond, James, Bond!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/urcool.gif

That's when they send me.  Bond, James, Bond!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/urcool.gif


send you to jail.

It appears that the worst is over, yet unemployment in the US is still hovering around 10%.

We have pulled out of recent recessions on the back of consumers and people buying things.  With middle class office jobs going overseas, it will be interesting to see how:

1. Jobs are created

2. How economy will recover.  On the backs of consumers again?  If banks aren't lending money and are very selective, how will we recover?

It appears that the worst is over, yet unemployment in the US is still hovering around 10%.

We have pulled out of recent recessions on the back of consumers and people buying things.  With middle class office jobs going overseas, it will be interesting to see how:

1. Jobs are created

2. How economy will recover.  On the backs of consumers again?  If banks aren't lending money and are very selective, how will we recover?


We will probably never fully recover to pre 2008 economy, most of the so called "prosperity" the US had for the past few decades has been an illusion built off credit, around 1980 the US dept hit 1 trillion and ever since then the US government has been exponentially adding more and more dept, it now sits at 13 trillion, you can print all the money in the world to pay it off but there has to be some substantial growth in the ecomony to back up that extra money flowing through the ecomony or we could have an inflation problem(like germany in the early 1920s, but that is a very severe case). Not to mention that the era of cheap oil is coming to a close and that will stall growth too. In fact, if the world has hit peak oil or very soon(most likely), economic growth WILL STOP, we will face chronic recessions(an optimistic scenario) and all the"alternatives" to replace oil make me laugh(because most are based off oil and even if they weren't, they don't come close to the rich, energy density of petroleum). Nuclear and solar energy is promising but still has a few decades to fully implement, the world will have scale down, we are in a serious dilemma in the 21st century.

It appears that the worst is over, yet unemployment in the US is still hovering around 10%.

We have pulled out of recent recessions on the back of consumers and people buying things.  With middle class office jobs going overseas, it will be interesting to see how:

1. Jobs are created

2. How economy will recover.  On the backs of consumers again?  If banks aren't lending money and are very selective, how will we recover?


But what jobs were created? ::)

But what jobs were created? ::)


Two words: Census Jobs!

Can they create a cartguy job,I need some help over there.

But what jobs were created? ::)


Paper or plastic? 

I worked at a supermarket for four years, and at the rate I'm going, I'll work there again and be damn proud to have any job at all!
::)

Paper or plastic? 

I worked at a supermarket for four years, and at the rate I'm going, I'll work there again and be damn proud to have any job at all!
::)


Did you work on the carts? ???

Did you work on the carts? ???


Sure did!  We called it "chariot chasing"!
:)

Sure did!  We called it "chariot chasing"!
:)


How'd you like pushing carts? ???

How'd you like pushing carts? ???


Not bad.  Depended on the weather.  It could be sweltering in the summer and cold and wet in the winter, but most of the time it was good exercise with low pressure from the management.
:)

Not bad.  Depended on the weather.  It could be sweltering in the summer and cold and wet in the winter, but most of the time it was good exercise with low pressure from the management.
:)


I don't mind pushing carts myself,It is good excersize but I don't LOVE it,I like it and the one thing that doesn't change are the pigs and slobs in the parking lot. :P