I thought the 10s would be a cool decade, but Obama is really starting to piss me off. I'm starting to feel like Dem or Rep, we're fudgeed....at least for another 20 years... :( What ever happened to Americans choosing for themselves. Now-a-days it's "government this" and "government is doing that". We may call this America, but it's more lile Russia...

So that mean, that America's about to experience a reverse Red Dawn?

???

This may not be the right forum for this argument, but honestly, Obama's healthcare plan isn't the "GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER" that Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sarah Palin claim that it is. What it is is government INTERVENTION. Controversial, yes, but it is no bigger than Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid.

Anyway, I'll say more stuff later. I just wanted to get that out.

I'm also tired of people saying its a government takeover. It's reform. As an American, I'm proud that it got passed, but I'm really disgusted that people are threatening the lives of the congressman that voted on it. Really embarrassing.

The congress didnt want  to vote for it themselves, but Obama bribed and threatened their jobs. Doesn't sound like something fit for a president...Besides, the american dream is about everyone finding THEIR OWN way, and not about how they can force the majority to pay for something that will only benifit the minority

The congress didnt want  to vote for it themselves, but Obama bribed and threatened their jobs. Doesn't sound like something fit for a president...Besides, the american dream is about everyone finding THEIR OWN way, and not about how they can force the majority to pay for something that will only benifit the minority


Uh, where did you hear that he bribed and threatened their jobs? Maybe Bush would do that, but I'd really like to see some solid evidence because I've NEVER heard anything like that and I read a lot of these types of articles.

And for the millionth time, the bill IS NOT FORCING EVERYONE TO PAY FOR A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM. THEY HAVE CLEARLY SAID MANY TIMES THAT THOSE HAPPY WITH THEIR CURRENT INSURANCE WILL NOT HAVE TO GET A NEW DOCTOR OR ANYTHING. THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T ATTAIN THEIR AMERICAN DREAM BECAUSE OF UNAVOIDABLE ECONOMIC FACTORS. Yes, many people abuse welfare and such, but it's not worth ignoring those hardworking people who deserve healthcare.

superflykid, it is very obvious that you are totally misinformed about what health care reform is all about. I'm not too sure where you are getting your information. You might want to check out our political section (where this thread really belongs and I'm sure one of the mods will move it there eventually). We have a lot of well informed people who participate in our political debates-some agree with this new reform, some do not. If you wish to participate in our political debates, we always love having new people join in but you must become a member of the forum (it doesn't cost anything) and you must respect other people even if they disagree with you. And we usually want the people who participate to cite sources of where they got their information from.



Cat

The congress didnt want  to vote for it themselves, but Obama bribed and threatened their jobs. Doesn't sound like something fit for a president...Besides, the american dream is about everyone finding THEIR OWN way, and not about how they can force the majority to pay for something that will only benifit the minority
Obama can't threaten Congress people's job since we the people vote our representatives in unless they do something against the law. Examples: Mark Foley, Eric Massa, or Tom Delay(allegedly Tom did something wrong.)

And for the millionth time, the bill IS NOT FORCING EVERYONE TO PAY FOR A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM. THEY HAVE CLEARLY SAID MANY TIMES THAT THOSE HAPPY WITH THEIR CURRENT INSURANCE WILL NOT HAVE TO GET A NEW DOCTOR OR ANYTHING. THE POINT OF THE BILL IS TO HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T ATTAIN THEIR AMERICAN DREAM BECAUSE OF UNAVOIDABLE ECONOMIC FACTORS. Yes, many people abuse welfare and such, but it's not worth ignoring those hardworking people who deserve healthcare.


Sure it forces people to pay for a government program.

First off, it forces people to buy insurance.

Secondly, it enacts multibillion "fees" (read: taxes) on insurance companies and drug companies.  Of course those "fees" will simply be passed on in the form of increased drug prices to everybody.

Thirdly, it provides little incentive for businesses to provide health care coverage.  The "penalty" for not providing coverage is $2000 per year at the max, which is a pittance compared to an employer ponying up health insurance, which is somewhere around $5k-$6k per year.  My thought is that this was done intentionally, as a prelude to single-payer.

Fourthly, it increases taxes on high-earner categories, even though those earners will never see the benefits.

Even Robin Hood would blush at the confiscatory aspects of this bill, which is an involuntary government program.

I will agree that the whole fines for not buying insurance thing is bullsheesh; I do not like that.

However, I still stand by my position and also that it is not a government takeover. There will be taxes and taxes suck, but that is not a government takeover. If complete socialized-medicine was enacted, that would be different.

So that mean, that America's about to experience a reverse Red Dawn?

???


Nope, just another sequel:

http://www.infowars.com/images/red05.jpg

http://www.justseeds.org/blog/images/500x_phoca_thumb_l_propaganda_1.jpg

http://www.justseeds.org/blog/images/500x_phoca_thumb_l_propaganda_2.jpg

The scenes involving the propaganda posters were filmed shortly before the election, at a time in which many people were still in shock over the Crash of 2008 (the bottom of which was in March 2009), and the markets were still trying to figure out which wing of the Party would get control of all that bailout money.  Websites on both the looney right and the looney left were eating it up.  If the movie had been released at that time (or better yet, in summer of 2009), it would have been an Avatar-level blockbuster.  

More propaganda awesomeness is at the Red Dawn 2010 fansite blog.

I still have high hopes for the movie.  It should be epic camp.  But the propaganda art is beautiful - in that evilly-twisted way that only propaganda can be.  

The congress didn't want to vote for it themselves, but Obama bribed and threatened their jobs. Doesn't sound like something fit for a president...Besides, the American dream is about everyone finding THEIR OWN way, and not about how they can force the majority to pay for something that will only benefit the minority


I'd like to see facts (not opinions) that back up the Obama threatening congress jobs. And it's set up in the Constitution that our government does protect minority rights. I think all of America needs to make sure they have thoroughly payed attention to the facts on Health Care Reform and then make their opinions.

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal about this health care reform. It seems to have more benefits than drawbacks. I don't see how they can call it "socialist", when its not even going to be complete Universal Healthcare like Canada or Sweden. It appears to be more like Japan's system, in which most people who are earning income will still have to pay for insurance. It is only those who cannot afford it that the government can help cover. To me, I think it is similar to the school systems. A parent can either send their child to public school for free, or pay to send them to private school. Well, maybe its different from that, but the point is if you want to label something as socialist, than public schools would be the same thing.

I think its a fear of change that is causing Americans to panic, mixed with Fox News inducing fear in people's minds that America is becoming a socialist or even communist country, just because everyone is entitled to seek treatment if they get ill now.

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal about this health care reform. It seems to have more benefits than drawbacks. I don't see how they can call it "socialist", when its not even going to be complete Universal Healthcare like Canada or Sweden. It appears to be more like Japan's system, in which most people who are earning income will still have to pay for insurance. It is only those who cannot afford it that the government can help cover. To me, I think it is similar to the school systems. A parent can either send their child to public school for free, or pay to send them to private school. Well, maybe its different from that, but the point is if you want to label something as socialist, than public schools would be the same thing.

I think its a fear of change that is causing Americans to panic, mixed with Fox News inducing fear in people's minds that America is becoming a socialist or even communist country, just because everyone is entitled to seek treatment if they get ill now.



Well said (and karma). But you have to recognized that the right-wing propaganda machine (which Fox Noise is part of) have been stirring up people's fears. That is how the right-wing has ALWAYS operated-feeding on people's fears-going back almost 100 years with the Red Scare, with Medicare, with the Civil Rights Act, etc. etc.


What cracks me up is these tea party protesters don't see the contradiction in their arguments (like you mentioning the public school system). Some of them are saying, "Keep the government out of my Medicare" not recognizing the fact that Medicare IS a government program. Or the fact that most of them are collecting Social Security checks. They also use words that they have no idea what they mean. They call Obama a Marxist, Fascist, Socialist, Commie, Nazi. Those words contradict each other.


But my question is, What is wrong with socialism? Personally, I would like to see this country be more socialist. I think we (as a country) would be much better off if we were.



Cat     

Well said (and karma). But you have to recognized that the right-wing propaganda machine (which Fox Noise is part of) have been stirring up people's fears. That is how the right-wing has ALWAYS operated-feeding on people's fears-going back almost 100 years with the Red Scare, with Medicare, with the Civil Rights Act, etc. etc.


What cracks me up is these tea party protesters don't see the contradiction in their arguments (like you mentioning the public school system). Some of them are saying, "Keep the government out of my Medicare" not recognizing the fact that Medicare IS a government program. Or the fact that most of them are collecting Social Security checks. They also use words that they have no idea what they mean. They call Obama a Marxist, Fascist, Socialist, Commie, Nazi. Those words contradict each other.


But my question is, What is wrong with socialism? Personally, I would like to see this country be more socialist. I think we (as a country) would be much better off if we were.



Cat       


Don't let Glenn Beckenstein, here you say that!

;D

Socialism..... bad!!!!!!  Fire....... also bad!

;D

Well said (and karma). But you have to recognized that the right-wing propaganda machine (which Fox Noise is part of) have been stirring up people's fears. That is how the right-wing has ALWAYS operated-feeding on people's fears-going back almost 100 years with the Red Scare, with Medicare, with the Civil Rights Act, etc. etc.


What cracks me up is these tea party protesters don't see the contradiction in their arguments (like you mentioning the public school system). Some of them are saying, "Keep the government out of my Medicare" not recognizing the fact that Medicare IS a government program. Or the fact that most of them are collecting Social Security checks. They also use words that they have no idea what they mean. They call Obama a Marxist, Fascist, Socialist, Commie, Nazi. Those words contradict each other.


But my question is, What is wrong with socialism? Personally, I would like to see this country be more socialist. I think we (as a country) would be much better off if we were.



Cat       
Why, do you want Obama to be like Hugo Chavez?

Why, do you want Obama to be like Hugo Chavez?


I NEVER said that! Don't put words into my mouth that I never said. It has nothing to do with the president-not matter who the president may be. What I said that I wish that THIS COUNTRY was more socialist. I want this country to be more like Sweden.



Cat