Apparently, not everyone is thrilled about the film, with some seeing the idea, of the protantganist, coming to the aid of the Nav'i, as nothing sort of racist, or for that matter, yet another story, about someone who is white, coming to the aid of the natives, who need their help, after assimilating into their culture.

So, is the movie racist or not?

http://www.bvonmovies.com/2010/01/11/is-avatar-racist/

Apparently, not everyone is thrilled about the film, with some seeing the idea, of the protantganist, coming to the aid of the Nav'i, as nothing sort of racist, or for that matter, yet another story, about someone who is white, coming to the aid of the natives, who need their help, after assimilating into their culture.

So, is the movie racist or not?

http://www.bvonmovies.com/2010/01/11/is-avatar-racist/


http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/


;D

I saw it and didn't try to read too much into racial, military or religious comparisons or intentions. I went to be entertained by a movie and i was and choose to leave it at that. I will say that I saw emotional and physical bonds being made between humans and non humans and how they dealt with their differences and found that part very intriguing.

Geez, why can't people just ENJOY a movie without trying to read something into it....next thing you know Alvin & the Chipmunks, the Squeakquel will be sexist because Alvin came to the rescue of the Chipettes ::)

Geez, why can't people just ENJOY a movie without trying to read something into it....next thing you know Alvin & the Chipmunks, the Squeakquel will be sexist because Alvin came to the rescue of the Chipettes ::)


That chauvinist pig.  >:(  ;)

I didn't see it and I'm really not intending to see it.

God, it's like "Birth of a Nation" all over again (And THAT was a racist film, unless you're a WASP)!

http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/


That's funny.

Ant

I didn't see it and I'm really not intending to see it.

God, it's like "Birth of a Nation" all over again (And THAT was a racist film, unless you're a WASP)!


beg to differ... this is nothing like Birth of a Nation... nothing.

This is more like Dangerous Minds, Finding Forrester, Save the Last Dance, Glory Road, The Ron Clark Story, Freedom Writers. 
These films are dubbed White Savior movies where its only thru the intervention or grace of a white character that the characters of color can be saved...

Birth of a Nation is about White Pride and how they must stomp on the blacks to keep the sanctity of the white race in tact.

That's funny.

Ant


yeah I thought so too!  :)

beg to differ... this is nothing like Birth of a Nation... nothing.

This is more like Dangerous Minds, Finding Forrester, Save the Last Dance, Glory Road, The Ron Clark Story, Freedom Writers. 
These films are dubbed White Savior movies where its only thru the intervention or grace of a white character that the characters of color can be saved...

Birth of a Nation is about White Pride and how they must stomp on the blacks to keep the sanctity of the white race in tact.




I haven't seen ANY of those films and now I'm going to...in the near future. (I haven't seen "Birth of a Nation" either and I'm NOT planning on seeing that since it makes everyone else look bad...except their own kind).

But the other movies you quoted I will see sometime...okay.

I haven't seen ANY of those films and now I'm going to...in the near future. (I haven't seen "Birth of a Nation" either and I'm NOT planning on seeing that since it makes everyone else look bad...except their own kind).

But the other movies you quoted I will see sometime...okay.



The biggest problem with BoN is that while the content is racist and vile the film itself is actually quite beautiful... DW Griffith basically introduced every technique used in modern filmmaking in that film... cross-cutting, mise-en-sine, flashbacks, using scenes to evoke specific emotions, framing...all of this was done by Griffith first.

Geez, why can't people just ENJOY a movie without trying to read something into it....next thing you know Alvin & the Chipmunks, the Squeakquel will be sexist because Alvin came to the rescue of the Chipettes ::)


I also seen something on TV where they asked if the movie was "un-american". I have no clue why this happens, must be relatives of those who try to over-analyze songs to see if there is any subliminal messages.

I also seen something on TV where they asked if the movie was "un-american". I have no clue why this happens, must be relatives of those who try to over-analyze songs to see if there is any subliminal messages.


The reason...IMO...is because of the Native American/European infristructure. Some may say that we took land from the Natives (which some did) and dominated the land.

Well...at one point, many settlers came here and try to make friends with the natives.

This is my opinion so I may not be 100%. :-\\

I also seen something on TV where they asked if the movie was "un-american". I have no clue why this happens, must be relatives of those who try to over-analyze songs to see if there is any subliminal messages.


I think it has to do with the  idea of a Americans going into what is perceived as an uncivilized nation and trying to "civilize" and dominate that nation...   or conquer it..... or something

God, it's like "Birth of a Nation" all over again (And THAT was a racist film, unless you're a WASP)!


I'm a WASP... and Birth of a Nation is pretty offensively racist.  Unfortunately, Snoz has already covered why it's worth watching: Griffiths invented modern filmmaking with it.  Prior to BoN, most movies were indistinguishable from having a movie camera set up in front of a (live) theatrical stage. 

Avatar?  Nothing like that.  If anything, it's about an intelligence that only decides to act - with the greatest of reluctance - when it pokes at a human's brain for just long enough to finally understand what our culture is really all about.  If you've played Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri ten years ago, you will enjoy Avatar. 

This is more like Dangerous Minds, Finding Forrester, Save the Last Dance, Glory Road, The Ron Clark Story, Freedom Writers. 
These films are dubbed White Savior movies where its only thru the intervention or grace of a white character that the characters of color can be saved...


Which I guess is the antithesis of the "Magic Negro", from such movies as Bagger Vance, The Green Mile, The Matrix, and The Stand.

I always hate when people try to look to deep into movies.  It is almost as bad as when they take a movie out of context-frame-time.

Which I guess is the antithesis of the "Magic Negro", from such movies as Bagger Vance, The Green Mile, The Matrix, and The Stand.

I always hate when people try to look to deep into movies.  It is almost as bad as when they take a movie out of context-frame-time.


You're saying there is no validity to movie analysis? Scholars have been studying films for years for a reason.

You're saying there is no validity to movie analysis? Scholars have been studying films for years for a reason.


Oh no, not at all.  But if somebody is going an analyze a movie, take it in context.

One thing that bugs the heck out of me is when somebody looks at a 50+ year old movie through modern eyes, then tries to pick it apart based on current ideas of "Political Corectness".

One of my favorite movies growing up is "Song Of The South", but it is verboten because of political corectness.  And I am sure that if the remake of Arthur is ever made, current beliefs of alcoholism will take the charm our of the main character of Arthur Bach and turn him into a pathetic creature.

Oh no, not at all.  But if somebody is going an analyze a movie, take it in context.

One thing that bugs the heck out of me is when somebody looks at a 50+ year old movie through modern eyes, then tries to pick it apart based on current ideas of "Political Corectness".

One of my favorite movies growing up is "Song Of The South", but it is verboten because of political corectness.  And I am sure that if the remake of Arthur is ever made, current beliefs of alcoholism will take the charm our of the main character of Arthur Bach and turn him into a pathetic creature.





so are you saying Birth of Nation is not a racist film because it was made in 1915  ???

The reason...IMO...is because of the Native American/European infristructure. Some may say that we took land from the Natives (which some did) and dominated the land.

Well...at one point, many settlers came here and try to make friends with the natives.

This is my opinion so I may not be 100%. :-\\


Oh, okay.


I think it has to do with the  idea of a Americans going into what is perceived as an uncivilized nation and trying to "civilize" and dominate that nation...   or conquer it..... or something



I see now.

I'm a WASP... and Birth of a Nation is pretty offensively racist.  Unfortunately, Snoz has already covered why it's worth watching: Griffiths invented modern filmmaking with it.  Prior to BoN, most movies were indistinguishable from having a movie camera set up in front of a (live) theatrical stage. 

Avatar?  Nothing like that.  If anything, it's about an intelligence that only decides to act - with the greatest of reluctance - when it pokes at a human's brain for just long enough to finally understand what our culture is really all about.  If you've played Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri ten years ago, you will enjoy Avatar. 


For BoN...I watched a bio on the Klan on The Biography Channel yesterday (When I'm housitting grandma's while she's in rehab, I would watch her TV) and the Klan was once similar to a Frat Club...a Frat Club gone wrong, and I may see BoN for its filmaking not for its prejudice.

Now for Avatar...The biggest contraversey is mostly that it makes people depressed.

But...do you think it will win an Oscar for Best Pic?

But...do you think it will win an Oscar for Best Pic?


I doubt that it will go that far, but I could be wrong. I have a feeling that the best pic oscar will be Inglorious Bastards.

so are you saying Birth of Nation is not a racist film because it was made in 1915  ???


*looks back*  I do not even remember mentioning Birth Of A Nation.

And while I would admit it is racist, it is also in some ways true in ways that make people very uncomfortable.

To begin with, you have to recognize what the movie was in many ways.  It was a telling of the Civil War and it's aftermath by a son of a Southern soldier.  It was told from the point of view of a Southerner that lived through reconstruction and it's aftermath.  And because of that, it brings up a lot of things that are not really taught in textbooks or classrooms today.

For example, I was curious as to how they depicted the Reconstruction Assembly in South Carolina.  Then I checked, and found that indeed, the ratio was indeed 78 blacks, and 48 whites.  And that in the State Senate, it was 21 blacks and 10 whites.  There were cockfights held in the assembly chambers, and that many of the assemblymen were illiterate.  And that Carpetbaggers did incredible damage to the economy of the south.  That thousands of whites were disenfranchised, and had their property siezed.

Yes, the movie was racist.  But the biggest "enemy" in the movie was not Blacks, but Republicans, Carpetbaggers, and those that supported them.

Trying to pick-out discrimination in movies can be very difficult, because of what was acceptable at the time it was made are not acceptable today.  One of the biggest movie franchises was the Charlie Chan series, which will probably never be made again because of it's perceived racism.  And of course there is the Agatha Christie story that is most commonly called "Ten Little Indians", because the original title is unprintable today (look it up).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians_(novel)#Publication_history

*looks back*  I do not even remember mentioning Birth Of A Nation.

And while I would admit it is racist, it is also in some ways true in ways that make people very uncomfortable.

To begin with, you have to recognize what the movie was in many ways.  It was a telling of the Civil War and it's aftermath by a son of a Southern soldier.  It was told from the point of view of a Southerner that lived through reconstruction and it's aftermath.  And because of that, it brings up a lot of things that are not really taught in textbooks or classrooms today.

For example, I was curious as to how they depicted the Reconstruction Assembly in South Carolina.  Then I checked, and found that indeed, the ratio was indeed 78 blacks, and 48 whites.  And that in the State Senate, it was 21 blacks and 10 whites.  There were cockfights held in the assembly chambers, and that many of the assemblymen were illiterate.  And that Carpetbaggers did incredible damage to the economy of the south.  That thousands of whites were disenfranchised, and had their property siezed.

Yes, the movie was racist.  But the biggest "enemy" in the movie was not Blacks, but Republicans, Carpetbaggers, and those that supported them.

Trying to pick-out discrimination in movies can be very difficult, because of what was acceptable at the time it was made are not acceptable today.  One of the biggest movie franchises was the Charlie Chan series, which will probably never be made again because of it's perceived racism.  And of course there is the Agatha Christie story that is most commonly called "Ten Little Indians", because the original title is unprintable today (look it up).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians_(novel)#Publication_history




I can see why they changed the title!

:o

I can see why they changed the title!

:o


lol

And this is not the only instance like that.

In the 1955 movie The Dam Busters, there was a dog that was fairly important to the flight crews.  And in that era, it was common in England to name black dogs "that word", much like in the US you may hear them today named "Blackie".  Anybody that has seen the movie "Pink Floyd: The Wall" will recognize parts of the movie that played in the background of the hotel scene.

But in a lot of broadcasts of the movie in recent years, the words are edited to call the dog "Trigger".  And even though Peter Jackson is about to do a remake of the movie, he is undecided if he will change the name of the dog or not.  He says that if he changes it, people will scream that he is caving in to political corectness, and if he does not others will scream racism.  So either way, he looses.

Myself, I prefer to look at things like this as an artifact of their time.  I think it would be better to not mess with things like that, and instead understand why it is not acceptable today.  Because I am sure that in future generations, people will look back at us and be equally critical of things we do and say today.

More controversy.....

China wants to pull Avatar from theatres....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ivnCOsc_gsGKMY3xqsxTU63d50rQ

*looks back*  I do not even remember mentioning Birth Of A Nation.

And while I would admit it is racist, it is also in some ways true in ways that make people very uncomfortable.

Yes, the movie was racist.  But the biggest "enemy" in the movie was not Blacks, but Republicans, Carpetbaggers, and those that supported them.



Thanks for giving me the info.

Karma for that!

I definitely saw a cowboys and indians theme running through the film but I don't really think it was racist (despite their being a definite white/'colour' divide). Sully's main motivation to help the people was his love and respect for their traditions and his mate Neytiri rather than trying to save them to promote his own superiority.

I thought the film and CGI was absolutely brilliant but I was pretty dissapointed with the 3D aspect of it.

Visit Mt. Avatar!

;D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8480954.stm

The movie is gonna beat Titanic! It made $594 million in the US.

Which I guess is the antithesis of the "Magic Negro", from such movies as Bagger Vance, The Green Mile, The Matrix, and The Stand.

I always hate when people try to look to deep into movies.  It is almost as bad as when they take a movie out of context-frame-time.


Actually with The Matrix, pretty all of the main characters are "magic", outside of Laurence Fishburne's character, and The Oracle.

The Oscar Nominees are out and I think "Avatar" may win Best Pic this year.