I am a true, saved child of Christ.

I want to reply so badly but instead I'll hold my tongue and suggest that you might want to ask to have this moved to TTT.






Good point, I was looking for the right place to put it in, but TTT says it's for non-religious topics.

You're right. The 2010s has a sub-thread that's current politics and religious topics. Ask a lead mod to move it for you via pm. And then they or we can delete these comments.
Then I'll


Done. Now let's just wait...

The Lord knows what a sinner I am but He still loves me nonetheless.  I have a personal relationship with the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.  I have accepted the Gift of salvation that Christ gave us all when He defeated death.  I know that I am safe no matter what because God has me held in His Hands.  Because of this I know that I will inherit paradise in the Father's many houses.  Praise Jesus!

The Lord knows what a sinner I am but He still loves me nonetheless.  I have a personal relationship with the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.  I have accepted the Gift of salvation that Christ gave us all when He defeated death.  I know that I am safe no matter what because God has me held in His Hands.  Because of this I know that I will inherit paradise in the Father's many houses.  Praise Jesus!





Well said, my spiritual brother. God loves everyone, and he can forgive even those who have blackened their hearts with sin.

DJBlaze...

I congratulate you for being Born-Again. Right now, I'm struggling in my faith. I go to church, I read the Bible when I can, I pray, but it seems that nothing is happening.

I'll give you a letter sometime this weekend. (And I'm surprised that Max hasn't commented yet....)

DJBlaze...

I congratulate you for being Born-Again. Right now, I'm struggling in my faith. I go to church, I read the Bible when I can, I pray, but it seems that nothing is happening.

I'll give you a letter sometime this weekend. (And I'm surprised that Max hasn't commented yet....)


You're doing fine, there's just one step left....

Ask Jesus to be your savior. That is the only thing left you have to do, but it is THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP. You can pray, read the Bible, go to church, but it won't mean anything unless you've put your life in Christ's hands.

But you're off to a good start already!

You're doing fine, there's just one step left....

Ask Jesus to be your savior. That is the only thing left you have to do, but it is THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP. You can pray, read the Bible, go to church, but it won't mean anything unless you've put your life in Christ's hands.

But you're off to a good start already!



Amen to that!  Accept the Gift!

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

DJBlaze...

I congratulate you for being Born-Again. Right now, I'm struggling in my faith. I go to church, I read the Bible when I can, I pray, but it seems that nothing is happening.

I'll give you a letter sometime this weekend. (And I'm surprised that Max hasn't commented yet....)


Sometimes the answer is NO

The Lord knows what a sinner I am but He still loves me nonetheless.  I have a personal relationship with the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.  I have accepted the Gift of salvation that Christ gave us all when He defeated death.  I know that I am safe no matter what because God has me held in His Hands.  Because of this I know that I will inherit paradise in the Father's many houses.  Praise Jesus!






Well said. DoRitos.  I am a child of God as well.  I am proud to call Jesus my Lord and Savior. 

Well said. DoRitos.  I am a child of God as well.  I am proud to call Jesus my Lord and Savior. 


Wonderful.

DJBlaze...

I congratulate you for being Born-Again. Right now, I'm struggling in my faith. I go to church, I read the Bible when I can, I pray, but it seems that nothing is happening.

I'll give you a letter sometime this weekend. (And I'm surprised that Max hasn't commented yet....)




McCleveland, when satan whispers into your ear and reminds you of your past, ask The Good Lord to remind him of his future.  Never speak to satan directly - always pray through Jesus.  We are far too weak to resist his lies and temptations and his trickery.  And above all remember that satan, as much as he would like to, cannot read your thoughts.  Only God can do that.  I am already praying for you my brother.

Sometimes the answer is NO



More often than not the answer instead of "no" is "wait".  That is when the real testing begins.  Our God is awesome.  All happens within His good time.

I'm not a true christian because I don't pray to Jesus. I believe he was nothing more than just a man, like Tom Selleck, or Wilford Brimley. Of course I thank him for "dying for my sins", even though I don't think he did. But it's the thought that counts.

As for whether or not I believe in a god...Well that's between me and god. ;)

I'm not a true christian because I don't pray to Jesus. I believe he was nothing more than just a man, like Tom Selleck, or Wilford Brimley. Of course I thank him for "dying for my sins", even though I don't think he did. But it's the thought that counts.

As for whether or not I believe in a god...Well that's between me and god. ;)



A personal relationship with Jesus requires a personal belief or commitment.  Our maker gave us free will and it is yours to decide.  Your beliefs are your business and are between you and whatever you perceive as your higher power, if that is anyone or anything at all.  Your commitments can only come from you.  I wish you peace my brother and I pray for your immortal soul.

I have prayed for Jesus to come into my heart when I was 9 with my dad.  That's 2 years after my brain tumor and doctors had told my dad that I was going to die.  I do not call myself a christian because I have a faith and don't follow a religion.  I talk and my mind is with God (Or higher athority) every day.  A while before I went deaf, a voice in my head asked me if I'd rather be blind or deaf.  I chose deaf and that's what happened.

Science-fiction, outright heresy, or a modern-day retelling of the Story of Job?  Holly Lisle: Sympathy for the Devil.

I'll find out in a few decades.  Or maybe I won't.

Science-fiction, outright heresy, or a modern-day retelling of the Story of Job?  Holly Lisle: Sympathy for the Devil.

I'll find out in a few decades.  Or maybe I won't.


If you call the Bible "science fiction," and then you call it "heresy" who are the heretics? 

I think those old stories just don't make any sense to some folks anymore.

So they don't believe in them.  I don't see a trend towards "pretend" Christianity (such as denominations that shall remain unnamed), I see a trend towards atheism...or a semi-gnostic "spirtitual" convictions.  More "ideals" fewer "convictions." 

The long and the short of it is, any "true" Christian would rather not self-identify as a "true Christian."
"Hi my name's Bob.  What's yours?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/dicktracy.jpg

I consider myself Christian but I certainly struggle with my faith at times though I've had some experiences that have given me more faith recently.

Our family was not spiritual before my brain tumor.  I'm not sure what faith My dad's mom had, but she prayed before meals.  His dad hated God.  My mom's mother had a rosary, prayer beads, and praised Mary.


I consider myself Christian but I certainly struggle with my faith at times though I've had some experiences that have given me more faith recently.


My guess is that It will continue to hapen until God is done strengthening you and you learn to recognise and resist the devil.

I'm christian, but I don't believe everything there is in the bible.

I have prayed for Jesus to come into my heart when I was 9 with my dad.  That's 2 years after my brain tumor and doctors had told my dad that I was going to die.  I do not call myself a christian because I have a faith and don't follow a religion.  I talk and my mind is with God (Or higher athority) every day.  A while before I went deaf, a voice in my head asked me if I'd rather be blind or deaf.  I chose deaf and that's what happened.






Hey girlfriend - I pray for you everyday and always marvel at your ability to write decent parody in spite of your disability.  God Bless you and trust in Jesus. 

Read your Bible and try to heed to these divne Words:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

I'm christian, but I don't believe everything there is in the bible.







And I also pray for you my brother that you become able to completely take every word in the Bible as coming directly from God.  Anything less, no matter how far fetched it is shows a lack of faith, so I pray for strength of faith for you.

I didn't believe a lot of things especially in prophesy back a few decades ago.  The mark of the beast was one that made no sense at the time.  It says that no man will be able to buy or sell without the sign of the beast on his hand or forehead.  We now have biometrics that can grant access based on finger prints and/or an eye scan.  I believe that this is the sign of the beast as could best be described by the person millenia ago who would see this in vision but could only describe it as that prophet saw it. 

And just how could everything from entering a bank to a grocery store require biometrics in which to enter?  The answer is that "big brother" at this time in prophesy, has ultimate control of the internet.  We are heading in that direction. 

Prophesy also declared that on the second coming Jesus will rule and people will live for 1,000 years as satan is bound.  The person of satan will be unbound in the final days as one last test to mankind.  I thought how could people live for 1,000 year?  Genetic advancments are going to make this possible in the near future.

So I now pray for your faith to be strenghtened.  God Bless. 

Hey girlfriend - I pray for you everyday and always marvel at your ability to write decent parody in spite of your disability.  God Bless you and trust in Jesus. 

Read your Bible and try to heed to these divne Words:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".






I need to get myself to record something again.  I was afraid that choosing the deafness would make me loose my ability to sing. I chose deaf over blind though because I wouldn't be able to stand not being able to see.

More often than not the answer instead of "no" is "wait".  That is when the real testing begins.  Our God is awesome.  All happens within His good time.





Thanks for praying for me DoRitos....

I also believe that Christianity is NOT a Religion...It's a relationship between you and Jesus...which is what it SHOULD be!

We use to go to a Christian Church and then to an evangelical  free church where the pastour said that Christianity was a fellowship.  Religions have sets of rules to follow.  The higher authority I believe in does not require a set of rules and rituals. 

As soon as you throw the "true" condition on being a Christian, the question becomes a loaded one.  The world is full of self-apponted Tom, Dick, and Harrys who all claim to know the "true" Christianity.

I grew up in a 2-religion family.  My Mum and we boys are all Roamin' Catholics, and my Dad was a Presby.  Never seemed odd to me except on Fridays when Dad got to pound down a burger whilst the rest of us were gagging on fish sticks.  :P

A friend of the family once won the Holy Name Society "Man of the Year" award, which is a really big deal for Catholics.  When he gave his acceptance speech he called out my Dad and another man as key spiritual mentors of his.  At the time my Mum said "Thank goodness he did not tell all those Catholics that your Dad and John are Presbys."  ;D

I also believe that Christianity is NOT a Religion...It's a relationship between you and Jesus...which is what it SHOULD be!


Amen, MrC.  People get too caught up in the rules and regulations and forget the relationship. 

I'm a "saved" Chritian - baptism of the Holy Spirit and the whole shebang -- just since you asked.  But I'm not big on on-line public evangelism thing so, I'm popping into and out of this thread.  But good for you all for having the conversation here.  Have a blessed day!  :)

As soon as you throw the "true" condition on being a Christian, the question becomes a loaded one.  The world is full of self-apponted Tom, Dick, and Harrys who all claim to know the "true" Christianity.

I grew up in a 2-religion family.  My Mum and we boys are all Roamin' Catholics, and my Dad was a Presby.  Never seemed odd to me except on Fridays when Dad got to pound down a burger whilst the rest of us were gagging on fish sticks.  :P

A friend of the family once won the Holy Name Society "Man of the Year" award, which is a really big deal for Catholics.  When he gave his acceptance speech he called out my Dad and another man as key spiritual mentors of his.  At the time my Mum said "Thank goodness he did not tell all those Catholics that your Dad and John are Presbys."  ;D


At the last family tragedy get together there spontaneously formed an Catholic table and a protestant table.  The Catholic table was the one making guzzling booze and singing songs.  They Protestants were not thrilled.

You can call yourself anything you want.  What counts is what you do from when you get up in the morning until when you go to sleep at night.

You can call yourself anything you want.  What counts is what you do from when you get up in the morning until when you go to sleep at night.


Can I be George W. Bush if I do it in my sleep?
8)

Can I be George W. Bush if I do it in my sleep?
8)



Why not?  He does.

Why not?  He does.


The question that matters in GWB's "born again" world is it doesn't matter what you do in your waking hours.  It doesn't matter what you do with free will so long as you've used it to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

I've had born againers say exactly that to me.  Most of them make a pro forma gesture towards "good works," but that's not what they teach at that C Street house!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/notworthy.gif

Why not?  He does.


Karma for that

I  was raised Catholic but gave it up for lent  :D

At the last family tragedy get together there spontaneously formed an Catholic table and a protestant table.  The Catholic table was the one making guzzling booze and singing songs.  They Protestants were not thrilled.



I am a recoverying Roman Catholic - I realized my personal relationship with Jesus way after I quit going to the RC church when I became of age.  My father always made sure that we attended Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation.  He was first generation Italian and believed in the RC church.  I never felt any peace or benefit from attending mass and cathecism.  It seemed that most of the sermons I heard were about giving the Church more money and letting go of more money during collections.  The weekly bulletin listed donations putting the highest donators' with the amount at the top of the bulletin.  Every week I would read the stats and how petty it became as the top few would bump their donation up a few dollars in the expectation of making the top of the list. 

I have written a few anti RC parodies on the RC Church.  One of them won the Song of the Month competiton on the "Song Parody Contests" thread on this board's Song Parody Contests for September 2008. Here is the link to "Unda Da See" that sort of sums it all up.  Give it a read.  You may get a chuckle or two from it.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml

Raised as a Jewish Episcopalian, I'm now a born again Pagan.



Cat

Raised as a Jewish Episcopalian, I'm now a born again Pagan.



Cat




Cat, Did you read the parody?  Someone did because the read counter went from 1104 to 1105.  If you read it what did you think?

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml





Must have missed that.  I can sing the whole OS from memory.

Cat, Did you read the parody?  Someone did because the read counter went from 1104 to 1105.  If you read it what did you think?






Missed it the first time around but I did see it. Very cute.



Cat

Dad was Catholic...Mom Episcopal...so I got the worst of both worlds...but I gotta say the Catholics seem to be losing a lot of ground what with pedophile priests, abusive nuns, and now this.  Maybe they will let them go to the front of the line at their food bank.


www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2010/12/12/boston_archdiocese_to_freeze_lay_workers_pensions/



Boston Archdiocese to Freeze Lay Workers' Pensions
December 12, 2010

BOSTON—The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston says it will freeze pensions for about 10,000 church secretaries, parochial school teachers and other lay employees.

The archdiocese, which has been struggling with financial problems, says the recent financial meltdown badly hurt its pension fund.

Retirees' pensions will not be affected under the change, but workers who are already vested or become vested would see their benefits freeze on Dec. 31, 2011. They would be offered an alternative plan similar to a 401(k) investment plan.

Many dioceses are making that transition, including Brooklyn, N.Y., Detroit, Dallas, and Phoenix.

Some beneficiaries say they are unhappy with the change and made salary sacrifices to work for the church.

Missed it the first time around but I did see it. Very cute.



Cat



Cat, thanks for reading.  Hope you got some chuckles.  :) ;)  And karma atcha for indulging me.

I am a recoverying Roman Catholic - I realized my personal relationship with Jesus way after I quit going to the RC church when I became of age.  My father always made sure that we attended Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation.  He was first generation Italian and believed in the RC church.  I never felt any peace or benefit from attending mass and cathecism.  It seemed that most of the sermons I heard were about giving the Church more money and letting go of more money during collections.  The weekly bulletin listed donations putting the highest donators' with the amount at the top of the bulletin.  Every week I would read the stats and how petty it became as the top few would bump their donation up a few dollars in the expectation of making the top of the list. 

I have written a few anti RC parodies on the RC Church.  One of them won the Song of the Month competiton on the "Song Parody Contests" thread on this board's Song Parody Contests for September 2008. Here is the link to "Unda Da See" that sort of sums it all up.  Give it a read.  You may get a chuckle or two from it.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml





I'm born and raised Lutheran and I believe that some Catholics are going to Heaven...it's the people who follow Catholicism that are fudgeed!

And Jack Chick thinks ALL Catholics are going to be in Hell!

(These are in the tract "The Last Rite")....

http://media.chick.com/tractimages4794/0082/0082_06.gif
http://media.chick.com/tractimages4794/0082/0082_07.gif
http://media.chick.com/tractimages4794/0082/0082_08.gif
http://media.chick.com/tractimages4794/0082/0082_09.gif

Dad was Catholic...Mom Episcopal...so I got the worst of both worlds...but I gotta say the Catholics seem to be losing a lot of ground what with pedophile priests, abusive nuns, and now this.  Maybe they will let them go to the front of the line at their food bank.


www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2010/12/12/boston_archdiocese_to_freeze_lay_workers_pensions/



Boston Archdiocese to Freeze Lay Workers' Pensions
December 12, 2010

BOSTON—The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston says it will freeze pensions for about 10,000 church secretaries, parochial school teachers and other lay employees.

The archdiocese, which has been struggling with financial problems, says the recent financial meltdown badly hurt its pension fund.

Retirees' pensions will not be affected under the change, but workers who are already vested or become vested would see their benefits freeze on Dec. 31, 2011. They would be offered an alternative plan similar to a 401(k) investment plan.

Many dioceses are making that transition, including Brooklyn, N.Y., Detroit, Dallas, and Phoenix.

Some beneficiaries say they are unhappy with the change and made salary sacrifices to work for the church.


Several parishes between Springfield and Northampton have consolidated in the past year.  Bad PR and low recruitment don't help.  There are tens of thousands of Latino Catholics in this area, but most of them don't have any money!  The story comes as no surprise.  Don't worry about the bishops, though, they ain't missing any meals!
;)

But, uh, listen, padre, Jesus did not come to advise us on our retirement plans.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel10.gif

  Don't worry about the bishops, though, they ain't missing any meals!
;)



It doesn't affect any of the ordained priests, just the lay workers, and you think that since the pedophile scandals, and the scandals involving priests having affairs and children they would come up with a better term.  ::)

Another blog and my pics are gone!

What is going on here?! :(

It doesn't affect any of the ordained priests, just the lay workers, and you think that since the pedophile scandals, and the scandals involving priests having affairs and children they would come up with a better term.   ::)


LAY PRIESTS NOT KIDS

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_scratch.gif

Dad was Catholic...Mom Episcopal...so I got the worst of both worlds...but I gotta say the Catholics seem to be losing a lot of ground what with pedophile priests, abusive nuns, and now this.  Maybe they will let them go to the front of the line at their food bank.
teachers and other lay employees.


Catholic church has been scoring quite a few Episcopalian recruits, including priests, ever since the Episcopalian church started ordaining openly practicing homosexuals.

Although a high school buddy of mine, who was an ordained Catholic priest, recently left the priesthood, moved to San Francisco, converted to Episcopalianism, and got married (to a woman).  He hasn't told me but I think he is studying to become an Episcopal priest.  Score one for the Anglicans.  ;)

Catholic church has been scoring quite a few Episcopalian recruits, including priests, ever since the Episcopalian church started ordaining openly practicing homosexuals.

Although a high school buddy of mine, who was an ordained Catholic priest, recently left the priesthood, moved to San Francisco, converted to Episcopalianism, and got married (to a woman).  He hasn't told me but I think he is studying to become an Episcopal priest.  Score one for the Anglicans.   ;)


The worst-kept secret in the history of Western Civilization is the Catholic Church ordains gay priests.  They just have to stay in the closet, or the tabernacle as the case might be!
::)

I've thought about monastic life, but...

Russell Ziskey: You could join a monastery.
John Winger: Did you ever see a monk get wildly ****ed by some teenage girls?
Russell Ziskey: Never.
John Winger: So much for the monastery.

-- Stripes

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/hiding.gif

I just found this thread.  I too am a Christian....baptized for the remission of sins February 2005.  Growing up, we did not attend church very often; though I did believe in God and prayed often.  Once I found a local congregation and really began studying the Bible; I found many of the questions I had before were answered...and when more questions arise; I found that studying and speaking with other Christians has been truly  helpful and has helped me grow more in my faith.  I am glad to have found a board where I can discuss these things with other Christians.  :)  Hope you all have a blessed day!

I am a recoverying Roman Catholic - I realized my personal relationship with Jesus way after I quit going to the RC church when I became of age.  My father always made sure that we attended Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation.  He was first generation Italian and believed in the RC church.  I never felt any peace or benefit from attending mass and cathecism.  It seemed that most of the sermons I heard were about giving the Church more money and letting go of more money during collections.  The weekly bulletin listed donations putting the highest donators' with the amount at the top of the bulletin.  Every week I would read the stats and how petty it became as the top few would bump their donation up a few dollars in the expectation of making the top of the list. 

I have written a few anti RC parodies on the RC Church.  One of them won the Song of the Month competiton on the "Song Parody Contests" thread on this board's Song Parody Contests for September 2008. Here is the link to "Unda Da See" that sort of sums it all up.  Give it a read.  You may get a chuckle or two from it.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml



Really?  I know more "Christian" churches that are focused on money than Catholic ones....there are quite a few rather large ones near where I live that REQUIRE you to tithe (which I though was non-existent, but I guess is a "dirty little secret" in many of the "mega-churches") in order to be a member.  Yep, in order to be one of the "chosen many", you must pledge at least 10% of your income and, as an added convenience, they do direct deposit.  Of course, they don't publicize this, and you can attend "on the sly", but once they realize you're coming on a regular basis....get ready to fork over your financials...can't afford it?  Well, then I guess you'd better find another church because hardship doesn't matter, which is more important, the fate of your soul or having a few luxuries? (and yes, one church actually said that to a neighbor, needless to say, they found a different church where they DON'T have to tithe and are much happier)

The worst-kept secret in the history of Western Civilization is the Catholic Church ordains gay priests.  They just have to stay in the closet, or the tabernacle as the case might be!
::)


The Church never said that it does not ordain homosexual preists.  It only objects to those who are active practitioners of the lifestyle.  For that matter it objects to priests who are active practitioners of the hetero lifestyle too.

The Church never said that it does not ordain homosexual preists.  It only objects to those who are active practitioners of the lifestyle.  For that matter it objects to priests who are active practitioners of the hetero lifestyle too.


That's what I mean, jellybean!

Priests have to be celibate, so the young man who likes other fellows sometimes decides he doesn't want to like other fellows, so he goes for the priesthood.  I'm sure all those conservative Catholics would LOVE to know they priest who gives them communion every week, officiated their marriage, and baptized their babies is a flaming fruitcake!
::)

That's what I mean, jellybean!

Priests have to be celibate, so the young man who likes other fellows sometimes decides he doesn't want to like other fellows, so he goes for the priesthood.  I'm sure all those conservative Catholics would LOVE to know they priest who gives them communion every week, officiated their marriage, and baptized their babies is a flaming fruitcake!
::)




I am a recoverying Roman Catholic - I realized my personal relationship with Jesus way after I quit going to the RC church when I became of age.  My father always made sure that we attended Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation.  He was first generation Italian and believed in the RC church.  I never felt any peace or benefit from attending mass and cathecism.  It seemed that most of the sermons I heard were about giving the Church more money and letting go of more money during collections.  The weekly bulletin listed donations putting the highest donators' with the amount at the top of the bulletin.  Every week I would read the stats and how petty it became as the top few would bump their donation up a few dollars in the expectation of making the top of the list. 

I have written a few anti RC parodies on the RC Church.  One of them won the Song of the Month competiton on the "Song Parody Contests" thread on this board's Song Parody Contests for September 2008. Here is the link to "Unda Da See" that sort of sums it all up.  Give it a read.  You may get a chuckle or two from it.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml

I am a recoverying Roman Catholic - I realized my personal relationship with Jesus way after I quit going to the RC church when I became of age.  My father always made sure that we attended Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation.  He was first generation Italian and believed in the RC church.  I never felt any peace or benefit from attending mass and cathecism.  It seemed that most of the sermons I heard were about giving the Church more money and letting go of more money during collections.  The weekly bulletin listed donations putting the highest donators' with the amount at the top of the bulletin.  Every week I would read the stats and how petty it became as the top few would bump their donation up a few dollars in the expectation of making the top of the list. 

I have written a few anti RC parodies on the RC Church.  One of them won the Song of the Month competiton on the "Song Parody Contests" thread on this board's Song Parody Contests for September 2008. Here is the link to "Unda Da See" that sort of sums it all up.  Give it a read.  You may get a chuckle or two from it.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/disney33.shtml



MAX, I THINK HE WANTS YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VamNTBRvnt0

At the center of my heart there sits a throne
That the rightful occupant's not always
free to call His own
For how can I give the King
His place of worth above all else
When I spend my time striving
to place the crown upon myself?

Battle cry, to engage
for the war, set the stage
and armies march and kings arise
for the choice, the time has come
mine or thy will be done?
and the pain reflects in holy eyes
for the will to obey
for the night to the day
and the seasons change and rulers die
not of flesh, not of men
wage the war deep within
on and on uit rages undenied

I TAKE MY CROWN AND CAST IT DOWN
CASTLES BURNING
CASTLES BURNING
LEARN TO GROW, GROW TO BE
A FLESH AND BLOOD THEOCRACY
TO TAKE THE LOSS AND BEAR THE CROSS
RAISE THE KINGDOM
RAISE THE KINGDOM
BURN AWAY ALL IVE BEEN
TO RESURRECT THEOCRACY WITHIN

and the would-be rulers of my heart
that I place upon the throne
each lead the kingdom of my life to ruin
to bring every though into submission
to tear the idols down
is to break the chains, to rearrange,
to give the king his crown

I TAKE MY CROWN AND CAST IT DOWN
CASTLES BURNING
CASTLES BURNING
LEARN TO GROW, GROW TO BE
A FLESH AND BLOOD THEOCRACY
TO TAKE THE LOSS AND BEAR THE CROSS
RAISE THE KINGDOM
RAISE THE KINGDOM
BURN AWAY ALL IVE BEEN
TO RESURRECT THEOCRACY WITHIN

Rather, use me to be your hands down here
a mirror to reflect your glory into hurting eyes
and let me see the world with vision clear
and not through selfishness and lies
for if I am consumed with my own cares
what right have I to speak the words
Thy Kingdom Come?
And if I am consumed with my own will,
what right to pray Thy Will Be Done?

As all round me I see bleeding souls
please give me strength to never pass them idly by
and as the angry storm clouds start to roll
may they see comfort in my eyes
for just as you are full of love
the same to others you have called me to be
and by the covenant of grace above and below
within our souls: theocracy

I TAKE MY CROWN AND CAST IT DOWN
CASTLES BURNING
CASTLES BURNING
LEARN TO GROW, GROW TO BE
A FLESH AND BLOOD THEOCRACY
TO TAKE THE LOSS AND BEAR THE CROSS
RAISE THE KINGDOM
RAISE THE KINGDOM








If only Theocracy were the most popular musical act in the world. Then maybe, the glory of God would be widespread. I say we kill Justin Bieber with fire and holy water, he is the musical Antichrist, fornicating our daughters with lyrics of underage relationships. JB is taking the world's women further away from the light of God. I can't see how he lives knowing this.

MAX, I THINK HE WANTS YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS!!!!!


BELIEVE IT OR NOT...

I am initiating into the Roman Catholic church at the same time as I don't begrudge "recovering Catholics" or "lapsed Catholics."  Church doctrine and church hypocrisy can indeed traumatize people. 

My father supports my conversion but he will never again set foot in a Catholic church.  I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe or not to believe. 

On the other hand, I am going Catholic.  It's what I'm doing now.  I have heard the criticisms and the spoofs and the embittered anti-Catholic testimonies all my life.  I've heard them and I weighed them in my decision to become Catholic.  Now that I have made my decision, I'm not terribly interested in commenting on some or other parody the likes of which I have seen time and time again.  Thanks you very much and God bless.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel4.gif

MAX, I THINK HE WANTS YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS!!!!!



And Mr. Smart I grew up in the Catholic church and it's just not for me.  You have my blessings to beieve what you wish.  Even though the 1st amendment has been kicked to the curb and thrown under the bus it still survives and I'll defend your right to use it as you see fit.  When I was in the military I took an oath to defend the constitution with my very life if necessary.  I don't have to do that anymore but if they keep stepping on it I will not be afraid to fight for her if it comes to that and even if it causes my death.  THANK YOU!




BELIEVE IT OR NOT...

I am initiating into the Roman Catholic church at the same time as I don't begrudge "recovering Catholics" or "lapsed Catholics."  Church doctrine and church hypocrisy can indeed traumatize people.  

My father supports my conversion but he will never again set foot in a Catholic church.  I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe or not to believe.  

On the other hand, I am going Catholic.  It's what I'm doing now.  I have heard the criticisms and the spoofs and the embittered anti-Catholic testimonies all my life.  I've heard them and I weighed them in my decision to become Catholic.  Now that I have made my decision, I'm not terribly interested in commenting on some or other parody the likes of which I have seen time and time again.  Thanks you very much and God bless.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel4.gif


BELIEVE IT OR NOT...

I am initiating into the Roman Catholic church at the same time as I don't begrudge "recovering Catholics" or "lapsed Catholics."  Church doctrine and church hypocrisy can indeed traumatize people.  

My father supports my conversion but he will never again set foot in a Catholic church.  I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe or not to believe.  

On the other hand, I am going Catholic.  It's what I'm doing now.  I have heard the criticisms and the spoofs and the embittered anti-Catholic testimonies all my life.  I've heard them and I weighed them in my decision to become Catholic.  Now that I have made my decision, I'm not terribly interested in commenting on some or other parody the likes of which I have seen time and time again.  Thanks you very much and God bless.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel4.gif



I didn't plug the parody to get comment or votes.  Lord knows I have enough of them.   I have over 1113 seperate views on the parody.  I could care less about if anyone pays attention to it or not.  You are being totally unfair and I do not appreciate it.  We parody writers write parody because it's in our blood to do so.  

And Mr. Smart I grew up in the Catholic Church and it's just not for me.  You have my blessings to believe what you wish.  Even though the 1st amendment has been kicked to the curb and thrown under the bus it still survives and I'll defend your right to use it as you see fit.  When I was in the military I took an oath to defend the constitution with my very life if necessary.  I don't have to do that anymore but if they keep stepping on it I will not be afraid to fight for her if it comes to that and even if it causes my death.  THANK YOU!

That's just what I'm on about.  Nobody told me I had to choose the Catholic Church.  I chose it.  I don't have children, but if I did, I'm not entirely sure I would have them baptized into the Catholic Church.  If had been baptized in infancy and raised in a strict Catholic home, my beliefs about the Church and its creed might be quite different.  Since I don't want children I don't spend a lot of time pondering the hypothetical. 

I believe in the First Amendment because the First Amendment gave me the freedom to believe what I believe and the freedom for you to believe what you want to believe.  If I don't respect your choice of belief or non-belief, I do a disservice to First Amendment principles.

The Religious Right always says the First Amendment is to keep the government out of the church and not the church out of the government.  To me, this is one and the same thing.  The First proscribes the government from establishing a religion.  If I'm a voting citizen, I have a stake in the government.  I want legislators to legislate on secular principles.  That is, even if secular principles are born out of religious beliefs, I don't want the underpinning of legislation to be "Because the Bible says so" or "Because the Qur'an says so." 

Some Americans are trying to throw the First Amendment under the bus.  I'm not one of them. 

That's just what I'm on about.  Nobody told me I had to choose the Catholic Church.  I chose it.  I don't have children, but if I did, I'm not entirely sure I would have them baptized into the Catholic Church.  If had been baptized in infancy and raised in a strict Catholic home, my beliefs about the Church and its creed might be quite different.  Since I don't want children I don't spend a lot of time pondering the hypothetical. 

I believe in the First Amendment because the First Amendment gave me the freedom to believe what I believe and the freedom for you to believe what you want to believe.  If I don't respect your choice of belief or non-belief, I do a disservice to First Amendment principles.

The Religious Right always says the First Amendment is to keep the government out of the church and not the church out of the government.  To me, this is one and the same thing.  The First proscribes the government from establishing a religion.  If I'm a voting citizen, I have a stake in the government.  I want legislators to legislate on secular principles.  That is, even if secular principles are born out of religious beliefs, I don't want the underpinning of legislation to be "Because the Bible says so" or "Because the Qur'an says so." 

Some Americans are trying to throw the First Amendment under the bus.  I'm not one of them. 





Well said Max and I cannot argue you with what you say.  The inalienable rights were God given.  What man does with them and if he offends God doing it then he will have to answer for that.  God gave us these rights and He also gave us free will.  I think you are well adjusted and I respect you and your right to the First Amendment.  ;)

Really?  I know more "Christian" churches that are focused on money than Catholic ones....there are quite a few rather large ones near where I live that REQUIRE you to tithe (which I though was non-existent, but I guess is a "dirty little secret" in many of the "mega-churches") in order to be a member.  Yep, in order to be one of the "chosen many", you must pledge at least 10% of your income and, as an added convenience, they do direct deposit. 

I wonder why churches have not yet gone electronic with the collection.

Instead of passing the hat, they could pass a plate that has a credit card reader on it and you could swipe in.

Or... an iPhone app where you could make your offering during the sermon.  "We take PayPal"  ;D

I wonder why churches have not yet gone electronic with the collection.

Instead of passing the hat, they could pass a plate that has a credit card reader on it and you could swipe in.

Or... an iPhone app where you could make your offering during the sermon.  "We take PayPal"   ;D


When my wallet is feeling skinny, I slip the bills in the plate folded.  Hey, there's a $20 under that $1, and it ain't your business no how!
Now, if you just want to toss a quarter into the offertory, you can do that.  If you nickel-and-dime the offering with a credit card, you're gonna get surcharged.  Thus, it might be a smart move for the church.  If there's a surcharge for going under five bucks...you'll just give good old cash. 
8)

I'm sure you can donate to your dioceses online with PayPal.  If not, the Church is missing the bus again!  As for credit card swipes from the pews, I dunno, that just don't have the same old-timey 'ligion feel to it like the coins and bills.  It's like the Methodist grape juice Eucharist.  It just doesn't cut it for the sacrament, IMO. 
:P

MAJOR TOPIC REVIVAL

I'm an orthodox christian. Regards to all christian brothers!

I'm an orthodox christian. Regards to all christian brothers!

Amen, brother.  Don't forget about your sisters!

Do you mean Eastern Orthodox?
???

I'm an orthodox christian. Regards to all christian brothers!


Latvian Orthodox? ???

I know more "Christian" churches that are focused on money than Catholic ones....there are quite a few rather large ones near where I live that REQUIRE you to tithe (which I though was non-existent, but I guess is a "dirty little secret" in many of the "mega-churches") in order to be a member

A couple of points here :

1.  Becoming a member of a church should be distinguished from becoming a Christian.  You don't have to pay a church anything to be a Christian.  You don't have to belong to a church to be a Christian.
2.  A "Mega-church" is a huge organization, in a big building, with a large staff.  All that costs money.
3.  You can attend and participate in a "Mega-church" or any church without being a member.  Membership is usually what allows you to vote on policy and budget or hold a leadership osition.  So if you want that level of involvement, you can sign on the dotted line and pay your 10% tithe.

I don't like churches requiring the tithe for membership, but if you can participate without being a full-fledged member, then I don't see a big problem with it.  If a person doesn't want to pay that money, there are many other churches with different (or no) membership requirements.

A couple of points here :

1.  Becoming a member of a church should be distinguished from becoming a Christian.  You don't have to pay a church anything to be a Christian.  You don't have to belong to a church to be a Christian.
2.  A "Mega-church" is a huge organization, in a big building, with a large staff.  All that costs money.
3.  You can attend and participate in a "Mega-church" or any church without being a member.  Membership is usually what allows you to vote on policy and budget or hold a leadership osition.  So if you want that level of involvement, you can sign on the dotted line and pay your 10% tithe.

I don't like churches requiring the tithe for membership, but if you can participate without being a full-fledged member, then I don't see a big problem with it.  If a person doesn't want to pay that money, there are many other churches with different (or no) membership requirements.


That's the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the American Constitution.  There would be no Church of the United States of America like there was the Church of England, which did force members to pay tithes and was a governmental-ecclesiastical collusion.  My Puritan ancestors who showed up on Cape Cod in 1620 were fleeing the C of E.

That's the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the American Constitution.  There would be no Church of the United States of America like there was the Church of England, which did force members to pay tithes and was a governmental-ecclesiastical collusion.  My Puritan ancestors who showed up on Cape Cod in 1620 were fleeing the C of E.



And imposed their own brand of orthodoxy

To be truthful...being a Catholic and having Jesus as your God is the best way in Heaven. In John 14:6 Jesus said...

"I am the way, the truth, and the life! No one comes to the Father, but by me"!

Being Catholicist is dangerous. You'll be set into the traps of the Saints who were actually sinners.


I'm an orthodox christian. Regards to all christian brothers!


Hey...that's fine. Your priests can have a family unlike the Catholic Priests who tells you to have 10 kids while they remain celibate.

To be truthful...being a Catholic and having Jesus as your God is the best way in Heaven. In John 14:6 Jesus said...

"I am the way, the truth, and the life! No one comes to the Father, but by me"!

Being Catholicist is dangerous. You'll be set into the traps of the Saints who were actually sinners.



Catholics pray to saints for the saintly patronages but they do not worship saints as they worship the Holy Trinity. 

http://images3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/266561923v5_400x400_Front_Color-Black.jpg

^ What does that mean?
???

^ What does that mean?
???

It's a D&D reference.. he's doing a saving roll with a D20


Can't help but wonder - are there any Christians here who would identify as *not* being "true Christians"?


Being Catholicist is dangerous.

"Catholicist"???

It's a D&D reference.. he's doing a saving roll with a D20
Oh, I see, I see, I get the picture!
:D


Can't help but wonder - are there any Christians here who would identify as *not* being "true Christians"?



Well, in my politically correct area, we have a lot of what I call "Christian Butts."  Guys who start sentences with, "I am a Christian, but..."  They want to disassociate themselves from the prosllytizing fanatics who muck it up for the rest of us, as with the Muslims.  Unitarians, for instance, are Protestants, but their domination has watered itself down so much, it's only nominally Christian. 

Catholics pray to saints for the saintly patronages but they do not worship saints as they worship the Holy Trinity. 


Theological sideline: Good so far - I never saw Catholics as worshipping saints, but it still confused me.  Got a link to some reasonably-authoritative Catholic references to explain how that works? 

Background: I was raised Protestant, and always thought it was weird that Catholics prayed to entities they knew weren't God.  Like, what's the point, why not talk to the Big Guy Himself?  (Of course, I'm biased, because that was the whole point of the Reformation - why fess up to a priest as the middleman, when the Boss's first clone, as another aspect of the Boss Himself, is, by definition, as omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent as the Boss Himself?  It's not like He needs an army of saints to act as first-line tech support...)

I'm not being snarky here (for once :); that whole "saints" thing was the second-biggest thing (we'll skip transubstantiation, on which I can't resist snarking, but I'm willing to gloss over it on account of no explanation'll ever make sense to me :)... Anyways, that "saints" thing was the other thing I never understood about Catholicism.  So, like, from a Catholic perspective, how's that supposed to work / why's it neccessary?

Theological sideline: Good so far - I never saw Catholics as worshipping saints, but it still confused me.  Got a link to some reasonably-authoritative Catholic references to explain how that works? 

Background: I was raised Protestant, and always thought it was weird that Catholics prayed to entities they knew weren't God.  Like, what's the point, why not talk to the Big Guy Himself?  (Of course, I'm biased, because that was the whole point of the Reformation - why fess up to a priest as the middleman, when the Boss's first clone, as another aspect of the Boss Himself, is, by definition, as omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent as the Boss Himself?  It's not like He needs an army of saints to act as first-line tech support...)

I'm not being snarky here (for once :); that whole "saints" thing was the second-biggest thing (we'll skip transubstantiation, on which I can't resist snarking, but I'm willing to gloss over it on account of no explanation'll ever make sense to me :)... Anyways, that "saints" thing was the other thing I never understood about Catholicism.  So, like, from a Catholic perspective, how's that supposed to work / why's it neccessary?



I am second generation Italian on my Father's side and they were all members of the RC church.  I never and still don't understand that saint's thing.  Before my wiife and I married, the first time I ever went to her church was on reformation Sunday when Martin Luther laid the law on the doors of the church blasting the pope and the RC Church.  Needless to say that my wife grew up a Missouri Synod Lutheran.  My first time in a non Catholic Church made a lot more sense to me then that saint's thing.  I am and have been now for quite a while a recovering Catholic.  ::)  8)

Saints are there to intercede for you.  Kinda like having the favorite child in the family ask for something for you(the not so favorite child).  Different saints(patron saints) are prayed to for intercession, and  there is a patron saint for just about anything or anyone.  Just more reinforcement of the idea of hierarchy.

http://saints.sqpn.com/

Saints are there to intercede for you.  Kinda like having the favorite child in the family ask for something for you(the not so favorite child).  Different saints(patron saints) are prayed to for intercession, and  there is a patron saint for just about anything or anyone.  Just more reinforcement of the idea of hierarchy.


Thanks for the link - I still can't buy into whole need for intercession bit (even when I put on my theist-worldview goggles - but those goggles are biased by an axiom in which God doesn't spend much time ranking umpteen-billion sinners - but yeah, if I remove that axiom, I could probably see where it comes from), but I will give you guys this much:  Setting up the lives of (comparatively, in terms of the historical record) recently-departed individuals as examples to follow was a pretty neat idea.  "Here's St. $name, he lived like $this, so we made him the patron Saint of whatever $that was."

Protestants are pretty much stuck with the book as it was eventually settled on (and there's a whole other debate on canonicity) a few hundred years after the events in question. 

Wow, I didn't really intend this thread to have so many different viewpoints....

Wow, I didn't really intend this thread to have so many different viewpoints....


That's what happens when you talk politics and religion

Wow, I didn't really intend this thread to have so many different viewpoints....


No matter where you start this conversation, you'll get this breadth of opinion and consideration.  I'm impressed, though, about how civil the conversation is here.  I've participated in similar discussions on forums created for people who want to discuss religion, and it gets sooooo messy.

No matter where you start this conversation, you'll get this breadth of opinion and consideration.  I'm impressed, though, about how civil the conversation is here.  I've participated in similar discussions on forums created for people who want to discuss religion, and it gets sooooo messy.


Since religion is a matter of faith rather than fact there is nothing to get messy about, unless someone starts proselytizing.

I think praying to saints is left over from the old polytheist religions. The worship of Mary is left over from the worshiping of the Goddess from the old Pagan religions. There are also many aspects of Christianity (doesn't matter the sect) that stem from early Paganism-including our celebration of Dec. 25th.



Cat

Since religion is a matter of faith rather than fact there is nothing to get messy about, unless someone starts proselytizing.


Proselytizing or criticizing (in a personal way), yes.  So bravo to the 00s crowd for having a discussion that didn't go there.

I think praying to saints is left over from the old polytheist religions. The worship of Mary is left over from the worshiping of the Goddess from the old Pagan religions. There are also many aspects of Christianity (doesn't matter the sect) that stem from early Paganism-including our celebration of Dec. 25th.



Cat


That's why the protestants don't go for so much of the saints and the Virgin.  A lot of them even find the Eucharist a disgusting quasi-cannibalistic ritual...but, make no mistake:

"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Amighty,
Maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen..."

--Nicene Creed

I think praying to saints is left over from the old polytheist religions. The worship of Mary is left over from the worshiping of the Goddess from the old Pagan religions. There are also many aspects of Christianity (doesn't matter the sect) that stem from early Paganism-including our celebration of Dec. 25th.


Now that's comedy!

First off - you're right.  Us Protestants, why they taught us all about those crazy Pagan Catholics! 

(And then the really Protestant Protestants told their kids they couldn't have candy on Hallowe'en, presents on Christmas, or chocolate eggs on Easter for the same reasons, thereby removing any incentive for any kid to have anything to do with any of those holidays.  And making sure their kids wanted nothing to do with the latter two as religious holidays, either.  Fundie parents probably created more atheists than Sagan ever did.)

I was lucky enough to be born into a family of non-fanatics.  Yup, Hallowe'en is actually the day before a Catholic holiday.  Now what are you going to wear for your costume, and make sure Dad gets to taste-test some of your candy.  So Santa gives you presents on Jesus's birthday, and the Easter Bunny gives you candy when Jesus got nailed to a tree for saying how neat it would be to be nice to people for a change.  But what's more important?  The calendar date on which the candy and presents get handed out, or the ideas of the guy we're supposedly celebrating?

(Umm, and in passing, Cat, my parents might not be, but even as a kid, once I found about about the existence of pagans, I felt kinda bad about our hijacking of your holidays.  That really was a dick move on our part.  If it's any consolation, I roll dice every once in a while to see if I'm going to post as a theist, an atheist, or under some vague version of deism.  The d6 got kinda stuck in the corner of the box this time, but I think I can stand by that comment no matter which way it landed.)

Human cultures always celebrated and prayed to the gods at similar times of year.  Solar, lunar, and celestial events were always observed.  So were the seasons relative to agriculture, hunting, and animal husbandry.  People prayed the gods would grant them health and harvest so they wouldn't suffer and die.  They offered sacrifice and thanksgiving in numerous forms throughout time immemorial. 

Christians didn't exactly "hijack" the Pagan holidays so much as they incorporated pre-Christian celebrations into Christian worship.  True, imperial political powers who happened to be Christian, such as Europeans in the Americas, did suppress native religions and enforce Christianity.  I think this was an atrocity for it was an ethnocentric and political will to power, but it is what happened.

Humans still react to a comet streaking across the sky.  We might understand it as an astronomical phenomenon and not a divine harbinger, but we still view it with that primal awe. 

Human cultures always celebrated and prayed to the gods at similar times of year.  Solar, lunar, and celestial events were always observed.  So were the seasons relative to agriculture, hunting, and animal husbandry.  People prayed the gods would grant them health and harvest so they wouldn't suffer and die.  They offered sacrifice and thanksgiving in numerous forms throughout time immemorial. 

Christians didn't exactly "hijack" the Pagan holidays so much as they incorporated pre-Christian celebrations into Christian worship.  True, imperial political powers who happened to be Christian, such as Europeans in the Americas, did suppress native religions and enforce Christianity.  I think this was an atrocity for it was an ethnocentric and political will to power, but it is what happened.

Humans still react to a comet streaking across the sky.  We might understand it as an astronomical phenomenon and not a divine harbinger, but we still view it with that primal awe. 



You are right that humans have always recognized the changing of the seasons and such and how Christianity incorporated them into their religion. I do not have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a lot of Christian religions claiming them as their own-rather than seeing that they are part of humanity that dates back longer than Christianity itself. What do I care if people celebrating Beltane on a Sunday a couple of weeks earlier by going to church and searching for eggs and eating chocolate bunnies or dancing around a Maypole or any other kind of celebration. And what do I care if people celebrate Imbolc (pronounced "IM-bulk" or "EM-bowlk"), Oimealg, ("IM-mol'g) or Candlemas by watching a groundhog or not. The only Wiccan holiday that is NOT really recognized is Lughnasadh (pronounced "Loo-nas-ah." ) which is celebrated July 31st. It is to celebrate the first harvest. 



Cat

Wow, I didn't really intend this thread to have so many different viewpoints....

How could it not?

..there are many, many different flavours of Christian, and I bet pretty much all of them would resent being called not a "true" one.


Christians didn't exactly "hijack" the Pagan holidays so much as they incorporated pre-Christian celebrations into Christian worship.
Just trying to work out what the difference is ;)

Here's something I wrote earlier...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBt5Lr1KVdo