http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-protest-20100913,0,4630198.story

Seems the Muslims in Afghanistan decided to protest the Koran-burning even though the whack-job Floridian minister who was gonna do it cancelled the event.

Which once again demonstrates that... the worst enemies of Muslims... are Muslims themselves...

It's amazing.  Anywhere else in the world when there is interreligious strife, you go out and kill the guys in the other religion.  In the Islamic world perceived offenses afainst Islam result in Muslims just going out and killing more Muslims.

Sure, Christians never kill other Christians!
::)

Sure, Christians never kill other Christians!
::)


Outside of Africa and Northern Ireland, Christians seem to mostly refrain from killing each other over religious reasons.

There's no question that a significant minority of Muslims are batshi# insane.

Outside of Africa and Northern Ireland, Christians seem to mostly refrain from killing each other over religious reasons.

There's no question that a significant minority of Muslims are batshi# insane.


I agree.  There are also a significant number of American Christians who are batshirt insane!  However, it's a little different to be batshirt insane when you get to ride around on a golf cart in the country club!
::)

Who were the first to marshal disdain and distrust after 9/11?  I mean general disdain and distrust not just of Muslims but of liberal neighbors! The American Christian Right.  We didn't even have all the facts in* and Franklin Graham was calling the Muslim prophet a "child molester."  Then Pat Robertson and Jerry Fartwell blamed it on lesbians, feminists, and pagans!

*We didn't get all the facts in, we don't have all the facts in, and we'll never get all the facts in.  Live with it.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad3.gif

I agree.  There are also a significant number of American Christians who are batshirt insane!  However, it's a little different to be batshirt insane when you get to ride around on a golf cart in the country club!
::)

Who were the first to marshal disdain and distrust after 9/11?  I mean general disdain and distrust not just of Muslims but of liberal neighbors! The American Christian Right.  We didn't even have all the facts in* and Franklin Graham was calling the Muslim prophet a "child molester."  Then Pat Robertson and Jerry Fartwell blamed it on lesbians, feminists, and pagans!

*We didn't get all the facts in, we don't have all the facts in, and we'll never get all the facts in.  Live with it.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad3.gif


Hey, I'm no fan of the Christian extremists either.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-protest-20100913,0,4630198.story
Which once again demonstrates that... the worst enemies of Muslims... are Muslims themselves...


The worst enemies of anyone are narrow-minded extemists whatever their religion, nationality, creed or race.

Outside of Africa and Northern Ireland, Christians seem to mostly refrain from killing each other over religious reasons.


John Lennon, abortion providers, the Inquisition etc.  Christian whackjobs have killed their own over religious nonsense on plenty of occasions and will continue to do so.


There's no question that a significant minority of Muslims are batshi# insane.


as is the minority of every other religion

Sure, Christians never kill other Christians!
::)


I'm afraid that unfortunately some Catholics, have killed other Catholics.

::)

I'm afraid that unfortunately some Catholics, have killed other Catholics.

::)


Northern Ireland?

John Lennon, abortion providers, the Inquisition etc.  Christian whackjobs have killed their own over religious nonsense on plenty of occasions and will continue to do so.

as is the minority of every other religion


I think the proportion of crazies is a bit higher with Islam.

I think the proportion of crazies is a bit higher with Islam.


Let's hypothetically swap places on the world stage with the Muslim world.  Consider how totally whacky some of these right wing Christian groups would get if they thought they were victims of an international Jewish conspiracy!
:-\\

Northern Ireland?


Pretty much.

I think the proportion of crazies is a bit higher with Islam.


you've never been to the southern US I take it...

you've never been to the southern US I take it...


The Blacks the Christian knights of the Ku Klux Klan hanged from tree limbs were all...Jewish.
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you've never been to the southern US I take it...


I live in NC.  Trust me, I've seen the crazies here, but they don't take things as far as Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan do.

You could probably even say the majority of people in some of these countries are pretty crazy.

Let's hypothetically swap places on the world stage with the Muslim world.  Consider how totally whacky some of these right wing Christian groups would get if they thought they were victims of an international Jewish conspiracy!
:-\\


I'll give you that.  If these cultures had progressed ahead of Europe and became the most individualist and technologically advanced societies while Europe remained medieval in mindset, yeah...  the Christians would be worse here by now.

So, I agree that it's not just religion that is the cause of this mess.  Cultural advancement includes things like technology and education -- both of which are lacking in places like Afghanistan and even most of Pakistan.

I'll give you that.  If these cultures had progressed ahead of Europe and became the most individualist and technologically advanced societies while Europe remained medieval in mindset, yeah...  the Christians would be worse here by now.

So, I agree that it's not just religion that is the cause of this mess.  Cultural advancement includes things like technology and education -- both of which are lacking in places like Afghanistan and even most of Pakistan.



Granted, so the question becomes how does the modern, industrial, quasi-secular world interact with an essentially feudal society?  I'm now reading a history of the Vikings - just for fun - and they seem to have been responding to threats similar to what Muslims now receive, ie challenges to their religion and cultural identity.  Its a tough nut to crack.

Granted, so the question becomes how does the modern, industrial, quasi-secular world interact with an essentially feudal society?  I'm now reading a history of the Vikings - just for fun - and they seem to have been responding to threats similar to what Muslims now receive, ie challenges to their religion and cultural identity.  Its a tough nut to crack.


Erik the Red wasn't a communist.  He was a Christian!
;)

Let's hypothetically swap places on the world stage with the Muslim world.  Consider how totally whacky some of these right wing Christian groups would get if they thought they were victims of an international Jewish conspiracy!
:-\\

There's a little bit of a heated discussion ( to put it mildly) going on the build a Mosque at ground zero. Imagine the backlash from Islam if Christians asked to build a church within Mecca. ;)


Hey, I'm no fan of the Christian extremists either.

There are nice people (and wackos) in all religions. They key word there is extremists. Most (if not all) religious movements have them. Sometimes how the extremetists function and what they do is pretty much how the rest of that movement is perceived.   :-[

There's a little bit of a heated discussion ( to put it mildly) going on the build a Mosque at ground zero. Imagine the backlash from Islam if Christians asked to build a church within Mecca. ;)


Why are you comparing New York City to Mecca? ???

No mosques in Vatican city. So no church in Mecca for you!

Erik the Red wasn't a communist.  He was a Christian!
;)


Yes, but the Vikings that raided the English, French, Irish, Byzantine, etc monasteries, slaughtered monks, etc, were not, and were reacting, in part, to Charlemagne's wars against the Saxons and Danes.  Clearly, monasteries had accumulated wealth, but the "sacrileges" that were committed had nothing to do with looting.  They were acts of religious defiance.  We face a similar reaction from some sectors of Islam.  So I think you missed my point

Why are you comparing New York City to Mecca? ???

No mosques in Vatican city. So no church in Mecca for you!


Vatican City is too small for a mosque.  Mecca is the size of a typical city.

Vatican City is too small for a mosque.  Mecca is the size of a typical city.


You completely missed the point.

We missed the point.  Happens all the time.  It is the point-giver's prerogative to clarify....

:P

We missed the point.  Happens all the time.  It is the point-giver's prerogative to clarify....

:P


Let me know exactly what you didn't understand about my statement and I'll try to clarify it for you  :P

You completely missed the point.



Here's another part of why your point isn't valid.  Mecca doesn't even allow non-Muslims to step foot there.  Vatican City is open to everyone.

So, clearly, the upper ranks of Islam are more xenophobic than the upper ranks of Catholics.

Don't get me wrong though.  I despise all religion.

If people would end their silly superstitions, the world would be a much better place.

If people would end their silly superstitions, the world would be a much better place.


Agreed, but some superstition are harmless.

Agreed, but some superstition are harmless.




True...  amusing but harmless...

Yes, but the Vikings that raided the English, French, Irish, Byzantine, etc monasteries, slaughtered monks, etc, were not, and were reacting, in part, to Charlemagne's wars against the Saxons and Danes.  Clearly, monasteries had accumulated wealth, but the "sacrileges" that were committed had nothing to do with looting.  They were acts of religious defiance.  We face a similar reaction from some sectors of Islam.  So I think you missed my point


Hold on, Professor Carlos.  I 'm still a little unclear on the matter...
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Here's another part of why your point isn't valid.  Mecca doesn't even allow non-Muslims to step foot there.  Vatican City is open to everyone.

So, clearly, the upper ranks of Islam are more xenophobic than the upper ranks of Catholics.

Don't get me wrong though.  I despise all religion.

If people would end their silly superstitions, the world would be a much better place.


My point was not made to prove which religion was more tolerant of others. It was made to point out whether or not NYC should be compared to Mecca. Besides, I don't buy into the whole "they can do it so why can't we?" that you hear so much in this argument.

Even without religion, people would still find a way to make themselves, and others miserable. I think for the most part religion does a lot to help make this world a better place than it would be without it.

My point was not made to prove which religion was more tolerant of others. It was made to point out whether or not NYC should be compared to Mecca. Besides, I don't buy into the whole "they can do it so why can't we?" that you hear so much in this argument.

Even without religion, people would still find a way to make themselves, and others miserable. I think for the most part religion does a lot to help make this world a better place than it would be without it.


Well, as I've said in another thread, I support the right of these property owners to build a Community Center at Ground Zero, but I reserve the right to point out the hypocrisies of the Islamic World in general.

Well, as I've said in another thread, I support the right of these property owners to build a Community Center at Ground Zero, but I reserve the right to point out the hypocrisies of the Islamic World in general.


But it's not even at ground zero.

Hold on, Professor Carlos.  I 'm still a little unclear on the matter...
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Charlemagne was making war on "heathendom" in large measure to force christianity  on the Saxons and other heathens, so it was a precursor of the crusades a few centuries later.  In part, the Viking attacks were retribution for his attacks, and any church or monastery was fair game.  And the Norse persistence to conversion lasted well beyond Charlemagne.  It was a clash of civilizations and cultures, which is what we are facing now.  And the terms and issues are mostly the same

True...  amusing but harmless...


Some times more than harmless.  Whether or not you believe in the godess, "Do what you will, harm none" is a good way to live a life.

Charlemagne was making war on "heathendom" in large measure to force christianity  on the Saxons and other heathens, so it was a precursor of the crusades a few centuries later.  In part, the Viking attacks were retribution for his attacks, and any church or monastery was fair game.  And the Norse persistence to conversion lasted well beyond Charlemagne.  It was a clash of civilizations and cultures, which is what we are facing now.  And the terms and issues are mostly the same


We make mistakes in all directions if we don't know how to read a culture.  You can't just talk like you're at the Rotary Club in Appleton.  You have to understand the daily social rites, the economy, the productivity, the lack of productivity, the conflicts, and table side manners.  A lot of the old tragedies told of recipes of not to treat a sudden death!
:o

But it's not even at ground zero.


There seems to be a dispute over how far would be socially acceptable.  Some say 2 blocks is too close, some don't.

Personally, I like the segment that Jon Stewart did on it.

I think they should replace the mosque that was IN the damned WTC

I think they should replace the mosque that was IN the damned WTC


Mosques don't levitate!.  It was on the 17th floor!

I think they should replace the mosque that was IN the damned WTC


Well, the "liberal" media missed that detail.

Mosques don't levitate!.  It was on the 17th floor!


Which is where they they should rebuild it