are Democrats and Republicans really working for the same masters to the same goals, and are friendly behind the scenes, but just disagree in the MEANS to their end? bush and clinton for example are actually great friends.

IMO yes, and no.  Both are committed to corporate capitalism, but the repubs are still hawking "supply side" or as GHW Bush called it, voodoo economics, while the dems are Keynesian. 

Of Course!

If Obama would...he would end the Rich Man's Tax Cut...but Obama IS rich, and many of his friends are too. Obama would end the war by the end of 2009, but he would end it in 2011 so he can get elected again!

I only voted for Obama for this reason...to see if he could fudge it up more than Bush...and I just made my point!

Big business has bought both parties, so in a way, yes.

are Democrats and Republicans really working for the same masters to the same goals, and are friendly behind the scenes, but just disagree in the MEANS to their end? bush and clinton for example are actually great friends.
Yes some of the Republican and Democrat politicians are friends. I think Al Franken is good friends with George Lemuiex(the Republican Senator from Florida), Pat Toomey and Joe Sestak are good friends and they are running against each other for the open US Senate Seat for the state of Pennsylvania this year, and Tom Coburn was close with Barack Obama when both were in the US Senate together even though they are very different politically idealogy wise.

Just because the Republicans and Democrats are different when it comes to the issues doesn't mean they can't be good friends.

Both parties are corporate-owned and corporate-controlled. 

I was a Democrat since I registered to vote for Dukakis
::)
until this year.  How many other guys does your girl have to run around with before you dump her?  Okay, that might be a little sexist, but you get my drift!

How does it feel to be an Independent, Mr. Maxwell?
How does it feel to be an azzwhole, Mr. Kerry?

However -- I think I would be a mite more nervous with Gramps McCaine stammering away and forgetting what city he's in with Sarah Palin just waiting for him to get a chicken bone in his esophagus!
:o

Well there is a liberal conservative split of course. The hoax is the Democrat/Republican thing, and the false idea that the Democrats are a "liberal" party or that Obama is a "socialist". It's all a setup by the corporate elite who are really in charge, they give us the fake choice between democrat and republican when really they're all working for the same Corporate Party. The real power rests in the hands of the lobbyists who are paying the congressmen.

Well there is a liberal conservative split of course. The hoax is the Democrat/Republican thing, and the false idea that the Democrats are a "liberal" party or that Obama is a "socialist". It's all a setup by the corporate elite who are really in charge, they give us the fake choice between democrat and republican when really they're all working for the same Corporate Party. The real power rests in the hands of the lobbyists who are paying the congressmen.
No, the Democrats and Republicans are not the same. Thats crazy, they are different politically completely.  The Democrats are a liberal party i mean people surveyed in a gallup poll indicated 49% of people surveyed thought the Democrats are too liberal. 

American Politics in a Nutshell

'Mornin, 'Pub.

'Mornin, 'Dem.

No, the Democrats and Republicans are not the same. Thats crazy, they are different politically completely.  The Democrats are a liberal party i mean people surveyed in a gallup poll indicated 49% of people surveyed thought the Democrats are too liberal. 


By American standards yes they're seen as liberal because this country is slanted so far to the right. The Democrats do not support universal health care, same-sex marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc. Not to mention how pro war they are in reality, Obama Seems like another war on terror guy just like Bush it seems. They're centrist at best to me center-right even. They're not exactly the same but they're not far off at all.

No, the Democrats and Republicans are not the same. Thats crazy, they are different politically completely.  The Democrats are a liberal party i mean people surveyed in a gallup poll indicated 49% of people surveyed thought the Democrats are too liberal. 


Both major parties are corporatist.  Democrats tend to be more "liberal" on social and economic issues than Republicans but they do indeed work for the same master as 2015 said.  Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama did not threaten the corporate status quo.  If Obama was a threat to the status quo as Glenn Beck likes to believe, Obama wouldn't have made it as far as the Democratic Party's nomination.  If Obama was ever a "Black Panthers" type of guy, he would have been smeared so bad at the state level his name would have been mud...even in Chicago.  The unconstitutional "USA PATRIOT Act" has not been abolished, and I doubt it will be.  The military-industrial complex and the  corporate-run government constitutes what Chris Hedges calls "a criminal class."  I agree. 

I know so many people whose lives were ruined by the bad economy.  People are hurting but they are lying down and taking it.  They feel dis-empowered.  Some of them think it's time to take our guns and march on Washington D.C.  Nothing could be so stupid.  We need to apply the nonviolent methods of Gandhi and MLK.  It is much harder to do in the short run, but in the long run, any violent insurrections are going to give the azzwholes in charge a reason to impose martial law.  They can.  They will.  Show your papers and shop as usual.  Today the government has the goods on you and there ain't no sense in trying to hide.  The first thing you will do when you get to the appointed safehouse is update your Facebook.  The goon squad will find you!
:o

By American standards yes they're seen as liberal because this country is slanted so far to the right. The Democrats do not support universal health care, same-sex marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc. Not to mention how pro war they are in reality, Obama Seems like another war on terror guy just like Bush it seems. They're centrist at best to me center-right even. They're not exactly the same but they're not far off at all.



Couldn't have said it any better myself. It really bothers me how many people in this country does NOT understand how right leaning this country really is.


Karma to you.



Cat

By American standards yes they're seen as liberal because this country is slanted so far to the right. The Democrats do not support universal health care, same-sex marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc. Not to mention how pro war they are in reality, Obama Seems like another war on terror guy just like Bush it seems. They're centrist at best to me center-right even. They're not exactly the same but they're not far off at all.
Brian, I;m gonna say this because this has been on my mind for a long time, it seems like minorities(blacks, Hispanics, and Asians) and Generation Y(yes this includes whites) are liberal I don;t know why your generation is liberal politically but you guys are.

Well some liberal democrats do support universal health care like Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi,  and Dennis Kucinich.

About the war or wars, thats the only thing Obama and The Republicans agree on.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are centrists, I don;t what to say. Is throwing money out the door that they don;t have left and right like the Democrats have been doing for the last year and a half "centrist"? No way. The Dems spent 782 billion dollars on a stimulus that didn;t stimulate and they didn;t pay a penny up front to pay for the thing.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. It really bothers me how many people in this country does NOT understand how right leaning this country really is.


Karma to you.



Cat
I think when I;m 70 years old the US will be socialist or a pretty left wing country. Why do I say this? Because when I;m that age Hispanics will be the majority race in the US and most Hispanics like a big government.

CAT, don;t let Washington politics bother you, life is too short for that!

"Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians" covers a wide swath of the population.

In America, Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians tend to be more religious, traditional, and family-oriented than White Americans.  Most of them don't vote Republican because it's not in their economic interest. 

You might point to the prevalence of out-of-wedlock births and single-parent households among certain "minority" groups as evidence of liberalism.  I don't consider that "liberal" in the first place.  There are misguided liberals who advocate the destruction of the nuclear family, but these liberals come from the ivory tower elite and not the hardscrabble streets.  The reason for social instability among "minority" families is born out of poverty.  When their living situations are stable, they tend to be socially conservative.

Furthermore, the last thing I would consider revolutionaries from Malcolm X to Fidel Castro is "liberal." 

Brian, I;m gonna say this because this has been on my mind for a long time, it seems like minorities(blacks, Hispanics, and Asians) and Generation Y(yes this includes whites) are liberal I don;t know why your generation is liberal politically but you guys are.

Well some liberal democrats do support universal health care like Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi,  and Dennis Kucinich.

About the war or wars, thats the only thing Obama and The Republicans agree on.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are centrists, I don;t what to say. Is throwing money out the door that they don;t have left and right like the Democrats have been doing for the last year and a half "centrist"? No way. The Dems spent 782 billion dollars on a stimulus that didn;t stimulate and they didn;t pay a penny up front to pay for the thing.


Ironically most of my family even the younger ones, they're conservative. Talking politics with some of them is impossible though I can still get along. Well I mean my Dad's family, hardcore Catholics and some Born Again Christians. On a worldwide scale yes they are centrists. Harry Reid is big on the death penalty and is opposed to abortion, isn't he pro gun too? Pelosi is more liberal than Reid though on a worldwide scale someone like her would still be considered fairly centrist. The problem is most Americans think the world begins and ends with the United States. This sure isn't the only country in the world and I don't really think it's the best either honestly, sure it's better than many other places but out of the supposed "Democratic" countries we're toward the lower end of the scale. Why am I liberal? Because I watched George W. Bush tell lie after lie and destroy this country for 8 years. I think the government's purpose should be to serve the greater good of society instead of starting wars and protect corporate interests. The power needs to be taken away from the corporations and given back to the people.

Ironically most of my family even the younger ones, they're conservative. Talking politics with some of them is impossible though I can still get along. Well I mean my Dad's family, hardcore Catholics and some Born Again Christians. On a worldwide scale yes they are centrists. Harry Reid is big on the death penalty and is opposed to abortion, isn't he pro gun too? Pelosi is more liberal than Reid though on a worldwide scale someone like her would still be considered fairly centrist. The problem is most Americans think the world begins and ends with the United States. This sure isn't the only country in the world and I don't really think it's the best either honestly, sure it's better than many other places but out of the supposed "Democratic" countries we're toward the lower end of the scale. Why am I liberal? Because I watched George W. Bush tell lie after lie and destroy this country for 8 years. I think the government's purpose should be to serve the greater good of society instead of starting wars and protect corporate interests. The power needs to be taken away from the corporations and given back to the people.


What are you, a commie...like me?
8)

.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are centrists, I don;t what to say. Is throwing money out the door that they don;t have left and right like the Democrats have been doing for the last year and a half "centrist"? No way. The Dems spent 782 billion dollars on a stimulus that didn;t stimulate and they didn;t pay a penny up front to pay for the thing.


Try this on for size:


www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100810/OPINION03/708109985/1039/OPINION03

The gist is that local and state gov't have cut back on at least as much as the fed is spending.  The results are obvious.  Gov't employees laid off (including teachers, or in Hawaii, the school year cut by 20%), lights turned off in major cities, roads being UNpaved, while we have slipped to twelfth in annual college grads, while conservatives and "centrists" want to cut taxes on the rich.  By the time you are 70 we will be a third world country and a third rate power.  Hell we will be there by the time I'm 70, and that aint that far away.

Ironically most of my family even the younger ones, they're conservative. Talking politics with some of them is impossible though I can still get along. Well I mean my Dad's family, hardcore Catholics and some Born Again Christians. On a worldwide scale yes they are centrists. Harry Reid is big on the death penalty and is opposed to abortion, isn't he pro gun too? Pelosi is more liberal than Reid though on a worldwide scale someone like her would still be considered fairly centrist. The problem is most Americans think the world begins and ends with the United States. This sure isn't the only country in the world and I don't really think it's the best either honestly, sure it's better than many other places but out of the supposed "Democratic" countries we're toward the lower end of the scale. Why am I liberal? Because I watched George W. Bush tell lie after lie and destroy this country for 8 years. I think the government's purpose should be to serve the greater good of society instead of starting wars and protect corporate interests. The power needs to be taken away from the corporations and given back to the people.


Well put.

Try this on for size:


www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100810/OPINION03/708109985/1039/OPINION03

The gist is that local and state gov't have cut back on at least as much as the fed is spending.  The results are obvious.  Gov't employees laid off (including teachers, or in Hawaii, the school year cut by 20%), lights turned off in major cities, roads being UNpaved, while we have slipped to twelfth in annual college grads, while conservatives and "centrists" want to cut taxes on the rich.  By the time you are 70 we will be a third world country and a third rate power.  Hell we will be there by the time I'm 70, and that aint that far away.


Just because a road is gravel doesn't make it maintenance-free.  Ask your local road agent.  Gravel roads (and dirt roads) cost a lot of money to maintain.  Absent routine grading, weather-related repairs, vegetation removal, and replacement of gravel, such a road would become impassible by automobile within six months.  Donkey cart, on the other hand...

I can't believe we even have to speculate on such a thing.  This is NOT the same country I was born in.
:\'(

I think when I;m 70 years old the US will be socialist or a pretty left wing country. Why do I say this? Because when I;m that age Hispanics will be the majority race in the US and most Hispanics like a big government.

CAT, don;t let Washington politics bother you, life is too short for that!



If Hispanic will be the majority in the U.S.,...The Country might as well be called Estados Unidos da Americanos and we'll all have to speak Spanish...or die!

Don't get me wrong, but if that happens...I'll be a Canadian. (IMO-I think America will be a mixed-bag in 2050. We'll have all the races in us...almost all of us.)

Try this on for size:


www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100810/OPINION03/708109985/1039/OPINION03

The gist is that local and state gov't have cut back on at least as much as the fed is spending.  The results are obvious.  Gov't employees laid off (including teachers, or in Hawaii, the school year cut by 20%), lights turned off in major cities, roads being UNpaved, while we have slipped to twelfth in annual college grads, while conservatives and "centrists" want to cut taxes on the rich.  By the time you are 70 we will be a third world country and a third rate power.  Hell we will be there by the time I'm 70, and that aint that far away.
Carlos, I don;t want to cut taxes on the rich. I made this point on another thread on here: why should we give millionare NBA players like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James a tax cut? It just doesn't make any sense, Obama is doing right yes I agree with Obama on cutting taxes for people making 250,000 dollars and down!

If Hispanic will be the majority in the U.S.,...The Country might as well be called Estados Unidos da Americanos and we'll all have to speak Spanish...or die!

Don't get me wrong, but if that happens...I'll be a Canadian. (IMO-I think America will be a mixed-bag in 2050. We'll have all the races in us...almost all of us.)
Yeah we will have to all learn spanish!! :)

Ironically most of my family even the younger ones, they're conservative. Talking politics with some of them is impossible though I can still get along. Well I mean my Dad's family, hardcore Catholics and some Born Again Christians. On a worldwide scale yes they are centrists. Harry Reid is big on the death penalty and is opposed to abortion, isn't he pro gun too? Pelosi is more liberal than Reid though on a worldwide scale someone like her would still be considered fairly centrist. The problem is most Americans think the world begins and ends with the United States. This sure isn't the only country in the world and I don't really think it's the best either honestly, sure it's better than many other places but out of the supposed "Democratic" countries we're toward the lower end of the scale. Why am I liberal? Because I watched George W. Bush tell lie after lie and destroy this country for 8 years. I think the government's purpose should be to serve the greater good of society instead of starting wars and protect corporate interests. The power needs to be taken away from the corporations and given back to the people.
Yes I agree with you Pelosi would be a centrist in a country like Europe.

I agree the government should be tougher on coorperations. Isn;t that what the financial reform bill was for?

Thats what young people think that they should be a liberal because they didn;t like George W. Bush. I never understood that. Maybe I should be a conservatve because Jimmy Carter was a bad president!

Yeah we will have to all learn spanish!! :)


Like I said...if that happens...I'm retiring in Canada!

And as the hoax...Bush II and Clinton actually take tours to Haiti and soon...Pakistan as well as other countries that suffered high disasters.

My Grandfather was irate when he saw Bush I and Clinton together talking about the Tsunami in SE Asia.

I agree with Obama on cutting taxes for people making 250,000 dollars and down!


For families (married-filing-jointly with an unnamed number of children).  For single filers, the proposed budget raises taxes on capital gains/dividends starting at $200K, not $250K. 

Here's a Tax Calculator that claims to summarize it for any situation.

I've played with it a bit, and it actually makes a point in Obama's favor: there are offsets to AMT and to tax bracketing that reduce the impact to manageable levels.  For instance, a single filer making $250K (and an extra $30K in the form of $10K long-term, $10K short-term, and $10K dividends) pays $70700 under the Bush plan, $81000 if the bush tax cuts were completely repealed, and $72000 under the proposed Obama budget.  The tax hike is closer to $1K than $10K, so even digging into the "over $200K" part of income scale, it's pretty much a wash.  (If the extra $1K really matters, you can always time your capital gains/losses to manage the hike in any one year.  Just wait until next January to sell a winner, or dump a loser in December.)

About the only thing you can do wrong under the proposed budget is earn a large income and earn it all in the form of wages: but if you're earning $500K in salary, but if you're playing at that level and not supplementing your income with an $100K in dividend, and another $100-200K in capital gains, you're doing it wrong anyways.  Even in those cases, the Obama budgets don't turn out to be anywhere near as bad as "just letting the Bush cuts expire".

For most taxpayers, and I'm pleasantly surprised to say it, it looks like it'll be rounding error.

^

If you live on wages, you're a chump. 

^

If you live on wages, you're a chump. 


Looks like I'm a Chump...I basically live on Below Minimum Wage. (I may be getting SSI and SSDI soon, but in Ohio the cap is the lowest...$1500? No wonder Ohio's in the gutter and should be called Northwest Virginia)!

Like I said...if that happens...I'm retiring in Canada!

And as the hoax...Bush II and Clinton actually take tours to Haiti and soon...

Pakistan as well as other countries that suffered high disasters.My Grandfather was irate when he saw Bush I and Clinton together talking about the Tsunami in SE Asia.


I think Clinton just seems like a friendly guy that likes to get along with every one.

I don't know I was just at comment on political sites. People seems think the Democratic is too left and the Republican's party is a little too much to the right. Notice I said a little, thats why the Republicans will have huge gains in House Seats and have a last half dozen seat gain in the US Senate. The independent voters that decide elections think they are closer to the Republican Party right now than the Democratic Party in terms of their views "on the issues". Those US Senate races in Washington State and in Colorado should be interesting to watch!