Seems that at the G20, O'bama was chiding the G20 countries to try and deficit-spend their way out of the recession.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/27/eveningnews/main6624612.shtml

This advice was generally greeted by a "yawn", especially since a number of European countries have gotten their economic a$$es in a crack due to deficit spending.

Leave this president to his own devices and we will have rampant inflation that will make the Carter years (and the first Reagan year or two) look like a dream.

And the opportunity will be ripe, as it was in 1980, to get the rubes voting against their own interests on a wink and a nod from the military industrial complex!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/BangHead.gif

The problem is that what we really need to do is the least popular option of all.

Raise taxes and lower spending.

The problem is that what we really need to do is the least popular option of all.

Raise taxes and lower spending.


Yes.  We're all going to be SOL.  However, some of us will be less SOL than others.  That's going to be the next arms race!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/headbang.gif

Yes.  We're all going to be SOL.  However, some of us will be less SOL than others.  That's going to be the next arms race!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/headbang.gif


Well, that would depend on whether or not we go to war with Pakistan.  Assuming we don't, we'll also cut back on military spending.

Seems that at the G20, O'bama was chiding the G20 countries to try and deficit-spend their way out of the recession.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/27/eveningnews/main6624612.shtml

This advice was generally greeted by a "yawn", especially since a number of European countries have gotten their economic a$$es in a crack due to deficit spending.

Leave this president to his own devices and we will have rampant inflation that will make the Carter years (and the first Reagan year or two) look like a dream.


Great, instead we'll follow the advice of G20 and Herbert Hoover and cause a depression instead.  Deficit spending is exactly what is needed during a recession.  You want to cut the deficit real quick? End the two wars we're still fighting. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/osbornes-first-budget-its-wrong-wrong-wrong-2011501.html

"If you have a household that can't pay its debts, you tell it to cut back on spending to free up the cash to pay the debts. But in a national economy, if you cut back on your spending, then economic activity goes down, nobody invests, the amount of tax you take goes down, the amount you pay out in unemployment benefits goes up – and you don't have enough money to pay your debts. "

this is the same BS FDR went through in the 1930s.  Recovery began to take hold, and the Republicans complained about spending being out of control, he cut back on spending and the economy dropped again until WWII.  The ONLY people to benefit from the deficit being cut are people who hold US Govt Bonds, in other words, banks.

Great, instead we'll follow the advice of G20 and Herbert Hoover and cause a depression instead.  Deficit spending is exactly what is needed during a recession.  You want to cut the deficit real quick? End the two wars we're still fighting. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/osbornes-first-budget-its-wrong-wrong-wrong-2011501.html

"If you have a household that can't pay its debts, you tell it to cut back on spending to free up the cash to pay the debts. But in a national economy, if you cut back on your spending, then economic activity goes down, nobody invests, the amount of tax you take goes down, the amount you pay out in unemployment benefits goes up – and you don't have enough money to pay your debts. "

this is the same BS FDR went through in the 1930s.  Recovery began to take hold, and the Republicans complained about spending being out of control, he cut back on spending and the economy dropped again until WWII.  The ONLY people to benefit from the deficit being cut are people who hold US Govt Bonds, in other words, banks.


Karma!  Great points. 

And they now tell us the New Deal didn't work...after GOP sabotaged it.*  They did the same crap with the Great Society programs.  The wars are profitable for the same capitalist class who hold no allegiance to anything but multinational corporations.  Anybody who thinks Rupert Murdoch actually gives a damn about America OR Australia needs to stop smoking the stuff. 

*Hard to draw up a hypothetical of what would have happened if the U.S. hadn't entered WWII because the issues are totally interconnected.

The ONLY people to benefit from the deficit being cut are people who hold US Govt Bonds, in other words, banks.


Anybody who has a bank account loses out, because when rampant inflation hits, the intrinsic value fo their life savings is diminished.

The Europeans are now seeing (once again) what happens when somebody tries to spend their way out of a recession.

Anybody who has a bank account loses out, because when rampant inflation hits, the intrinsic value fo their life savings is diminished.


If you believe in the inflationary scenario, buy gold, silver, and stocks in miners thereof.  It's not that the price of gold is going up, it's that the value of the dollars printed is going down as more of 'em get printed.

Great, instead we'll follow the advice of G20 and Herbert Hoover and cause a depression instead.  Deficit spending is exactly what is needed during a recession.  You want to cut the deficit real quick? End the two wars we're still fighting.  

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/osbornes-first-budget-its-wrong-wrong-wrong-2011501.html

"If you have a household that can't pay its debts, you tell it to cut back on spending to free up the cash to pay the debts. But in a national economy, if you cut back on your spending, then economic activity goes down, nobody invests, the amount of tax you take goes down, the amount you pay out in unemployment benefits goes up – and you don't have enough money to pay your debts. "

this is the same BS FDR went through in the 1930s.  Recovery began to take hold, and the Republicans complained about spending being out of control, he cut back on spending and the economy dropped again until WWII.  The ONLY people to benefit from the deficit being cut are people who hold US Govt Bonds, in other words, banks.


Well, actually, it was WW2 that helped us get out of the Depression.  However, FDR was working with an economy that was crippled less from debt and more from a lack of liquidity.  We're on the other side of the coin nowadays.


Debt is our enemy now, since the money supply is much larger than before, and our interest payments on debt are absolutely absurd.  Basically cutting inflation is what we need to do now, and that's most easily accomplished with cutting spending and raising taxes.

What inflation?  The danger is a deflationary cycle which will create the same thing it did for Japan a decade or so ago

If you believe in the inflationary scenario, buy gold, silver, and stocks in miners thereof.  It's not that the price of gold is going up, it's that the value of the dollars printed is going down as more of 'em get printed.



The reason why gold is still worth anything is there's only so much of it to go around.  You can't print it.  If world currencies collapse, those who have gold will horde it.  Gold could rise from 1200 USD/OZ to 12000 USD/OZ.  In fact, the U.S. dollar would be a worthless measurement.  That's not going to be a fun world even for the Rothschilds!
:o

What inflation?  The danger is a deflationary cycle which will create the same thing it did for Japan a decade or so ago


Deflation only happens when the money supply is in a shortage state.  While the severity of our current recession is comparable to the Great Depression, it is a very different animal.  The level of debt we currently have can only be remedied by budget cuts, unless you're talking about committing to an all out war with Pakistan, since it would require a conflict of that scale to stimulate our economy via military spending.  Even under that scenario, you'd still have a massive bill to pay back afterwards.

here's a fun little toy:

http://www.cepr.net/calculators/calc_deficit.html

As is shown on the calculator below, the debt burden has been much higher for the United States in the past and is currently far higher for many countries than it is projected to be in the baseline scenario for the United States in 2020.

You know what Lyndon La Rouche said about the national debt?

"Repudiate it." *

Yeah, we're not paying!  What do you think of that?  Now fuggoff!

* c. 1992

here's a fun little toy:

http://www.cepr.net/calculators/calc_deficit.html

As is shown on the calculator below, the debt burden has been much higher for the United States in the past and is currently far higher for many countries than it is projected to be in the baseline scenario for the United States in 2020.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

While it is true that, when adjusting for % of GDP, we've had higher debts in the 40s, that was during a world war.  Debts have risen considerably as a % of GDP ever since the bailouts.  If things continue as they have with government spending, we will reach and possibly surpass the peak in the 40s.


The problem with a lot of the assumptions that this calculator makes involves things like taxes.  For example, they include a gas tax proposal that would generate more revenue for the government and would discourage driving somewhat, but it would much more significantly increase the cost of living and general cost of shipping.  If costs rise significantly enough and quickly enough, that slows economic productivity, which, in turn, results in less government revenue on the whole.  If spending isn't decreased to accommodate that, then debts rise.

The latest eco indicators show the economy slowing on all fronts, meanwhile, the Fed has started to recoup some of the bailout $$, and is making a profit on some of the stock it took in.  But repubs are refusing to extend unemployment bennies.  Look for a double dip recession guys.

The latest eco indicators show the economy slowing on all fronts, meanwhile, the Fed has started to recoup some of the bailout $$, and is making a profit on some of the stock it took in.  But repubs are refusing to extend unemployment bennies.  Look for a double dip recession guys.


They might try and backtrack on cutting unemployment extension.  It's not just Democrats who are unemployed.  If I'm flat out of cash because you voted to terminate my benefits, I'm sure as hell not going to vote for you. 

The latest eco indicators show the economy slowing on all fronts, meanwhile, the Fed has started to recoup some of the bailout $$, and is making a profit on some of the stock it took in.  But repubs are refusing to extend unemployment bennies.  Look for a double dip recession guys.


There is still no net profit on the bailout program, and the Fed has predicted that (the total of all the programs) will be a loser approaching $100 Billion.  :o

The economy is indeed in slowdown mode.  I spent the week working with steel mills.  All of the steel companies have reduced operations, and they are quietly lowering their sales forecasts for the third quarter.

Interestingly, EXPORTS of manufactured goods from the USA to Mexico are extremely strong.  It is very hard to get a truck to haul something to Mexico lately, 'cause the trucking companies are already booked full.  Shipments back from Mexico are a tad weak.

More convincingly, ocean-vessel freight rates are dropping very quickly, which is a clear indicator that economic activity is sliding downward.  If you need to ship 75,000 tons of rocks across the world, now's the time to get it hauled on the cheap.

Check out Paul Krugman's latest.  And to those who question his analysis, he has been right on most of his projections/predictions

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100703/OPINION/707039979/1039/OPINION03