I was watching the evening news today here in the Picksburgh area, and reporter Marty griffin (husband of the lovely Kristine Sorensen :-* ) was exposing waste in the state/county methadone programs.

There is one guy who the government spends $46k per year to taxi him from his house to a methadone clinic 40 miles away, 6 days a week.  Been going on for 5 years.  There is another clinich down the block from his place, but he does not go there because they watch him when he has to give a urine sample.  The government has no problem with all of this, and that particular county is spending $1.5MM per year transporting methadone addicts to and from methadone clinics.

Another guy was interviewed, who has been on methadone for 11 years.

None of these guys has any intent to get off this government-dispensed junk.  First off I think that "replacement therapies" like methadone and suboxone are quackery (Dr Drew Pinsky feels likewise).  However, if somebody is to get on this junk, then they need to be tapered off (as is the design of these programs) in 6 months.  Anything longer than that and you're CLEARLY wasting money.

I can only imagine how much $$$ is being wasted in CALIFORNIA on this sort of thing.  Looks like we got a place to whack spending.

What say you? ???

There is no getting off Methadone for many people.  They have an addiction that has progressed to a chemical (not behavioral) addiction and will probably just go back to shooting up if you lower there dose past a certain amount no matter how much they want to stay clean. The first time someone shoots up with heroin they have altered their brain chemistry permanently.  It's not like other drugs where you can "experiment" and still stop easily after a few tries or a few months.  It's why I've always hated the Libertarian bent towards drugs of "let people do what they want".  The problem isn't that simple, neither is total prohibition of every mood altering drug aside from alcohol.

Paying to transport someone to a different clinic because he doesn't like the local one is pretty much grade A BS however.

There is no getting off Methadone for many people.  They have an addiction that has progressed to a chemical (not behavioral) addiction and will probably just go back to shooting up if you lower there dose past a certain amount no matter how much they want to stay clean. The first time someone shoots up with heroin they have altered their brain chemistry permanently.  It's not like other drugs where you can "experiment" and still stop easily after a few tries or a few months.  It's why I've always hated the Libertarian bent towards drugs of "let people do what they want".  The problem isn't that simple, neither is total prohibition of every mood altering drug aside from alcohol.

Paying to transport someone to a different clinic because he doesn't like the local one is pretty much grade A BS however.


Agreed. 

There is no getting off Methadone for many people.  They have an addiction that has progressed to a chemical (not behavioral) addiction and will probably just go back to shooting up if you lower there dose past a certain amount no matter how much they want to stay clean. The first time someone shoots up with heroin they have altered their brain chemistry permanently.  It's not like other drugs where you can "experiment" and still stop easily after a few tries or a few months.  It's why I've always hated the Libertarian bent towards drugs of "let people do what they want".  The problem isn't that simple, neither is total prohibition of every mood altering drug aside from alcohol.

Paying to transport someone to a different clinic because he doesn't like the local one is pretty much grade A BS however.


From what I could tell in the news article, neither of these guys has a job (despite their age being, I am guessing, mid-30's or 40's).  If getting off this junk is not part of the program, then why don't we simply cut 'em off and let them buy their own H?  They're addicts and they are leaching off the rest of us, with no intent to get off of it.  They have a sweet deal... they get their high courtesy of Uncle Sam, while the unwashed masses have to get their dope in the form of stamp bags from Dope Master C in Wilkinsburg or from Ali Dorsett's (that's Tony's nephew) dope ring in Aliquippa.

Best I can tell these guys are government-fertilized vegetables.  Methadone is not "medicine", it is a powerful opiate.  These guys are still getting high.

No rehab-no methadone I say.  If you want to get off the junk, fine, we'll work with you with whatever resources needed... but after that you're on your own.

Maybe "A Scanner Darkly" had the right idea.

If getting off this junk is not part of the program, then why don't we simply cut 'em off and let them buy their own H?
Because it's (a lot) cheaper to give them the dope than it is to clear up after the crime they'll do to fund buying it themselves?  Even with the 46k in taxi fares (you could hire a full-time chauffeur for that kind of money), it's probably still cheaper than keeping him in prison + all the other associated costs of getting him there.

I do wonder why methadone and not heroin, though: after all, if you're going to prescribe something, why not the thing that the guy's addicted to?  There may well be a medical reason, of course, but it's my guess that the reason is more likely to be political than medical.

No rehab-no methadone I say.  If you want to get off the junk, fine, we'll work with you with whatever resources needed... but after that you're on your own.


so your solution is to just do nothing instead.  Last time I checked there is nothing with any success rate for getting heroin junkies clean again, methadone at least keeps them from the full high.

funny how this was nothing you ever mentioned before the local news kicked up the outrage filter on it.  I'm sure there's plenty of bigger wastes in government right now, but this one won't affect a large advertiser if people decide to complain about it.

One has to say to 46K a year to taxi a junkie to the clinic is absurd.  There has got to be a better way.  Now, the "get tough on crime and lock 'em all up" wingnuts must concede that 46K is about half the cost of incarceration and in-house treatment.

The Libertarians would say legalize all drugs.  Let the poor dumb sumbit die in the street if he can't control his habits."  I have indeed seen junkies dying in the street.  It ain't a pretty sight.  I'd rather see them get some help even if it's pricy.  A lot of addicts in the throes of it don't want help.  They want dope.

Some methadone clinics let clients take a week's supply home with them once the client has established trust.  Methadone has street value and you can abuse it or O.D. on it easily. 

So what's the government to do? 

The private sector wouldn't be interested in the treatment end of addiction.  It's not profitable.  Supplying the dope is where the money's at!

Methadone is prescribed as a painkiller in extenuating circumstances.  As far as I know, it's not as addictive as OxyContin, which doctors are still handing out like candy.

I know a guy who's been on methadone for 15 years.  He has the money for a private physican, which most addicts do not.  He uses it only to keep his withdrawal from acting up.  He had been hooked on H for about 10 years before that!
::)
It depends on the indidual neurochemistrry.  Some brains can kick it, some cannot.  Say nope to dope kids!

so your solution is to just do nothing instead.  Last time I checked there is nothing with any success rate for getting heroin junkies clean again, methadone at least keeps them from the full high.

funny how this was nothing you ever mentioned before the local news kicked up the outrage filter on it.  I'm sure there's plenty of bigger wastes in government right now, but this one won't affect a large advertiser if people decide to complain about it.



You are correct, I was unaware of just how much money was being blown on government-funded drug addiction.  I was shocked that a mainly-rural county like PA's Westmoreland County was spending $1.5MM/year on the transportation alone.

Here is my alternative:


Government sells the addicts all the methadone they want, at cost
Stock the product at pharmacies, so no need for transportation
Addicts have to come and get it, and pay in cash.
I guarantee that the addicts will manage to figure out how to get a ride and how to get the money


That way they can get all the dope they want, and we don't have to foot the bill.

You are correct, I was unaware of just how much money was being blown on government-funded drug addiction.  I was shocked that a mainly-rural county like PA's Westmoreland County was spending $1.5MM/year on the transportation alone.

Here is my alternative:


Government sells the addicts all the methadone they want, at cost
Stock the product at pharmacies, so no need for transportation
Addicts have to come and get it, and pay in cash.
I guarantee that the addicts will manage to figure out how to get a ride and how to get the money


That way they can get all the dope they want, and we don't have to foot the bill.


Slight error in your logic, most addicts can't hold jobs and don't have any money.  Thus, they will steal purses from old ladies to get their dope.  Then they'll get caught, go to jail, and the government will foot the bill!
:o

The crap hit the fan in Pennsylvania after that news story ran.

Today a group of state senators announced that they will develop and introduce a methadone reform bill in the state legislature.

Turns out there are some people who have been getting free Methadone for 30+ years.  8-P

Didn't realize methadone had been around as a heroin substitute for that long.  You live and learn...

Didn't realize methadone had been around as a heroin substitute for that long.  You live and learn...


The first time I heard it mentioned was Woody Allen's "Annie Hall."

"I used to be a heroin addict, now I'm a methadone addict."

That movie came out in 1977.

The Germans developed the drug in the late 1930s and it has actually been used in opiate addiction treatment since the 1950s.

The Germans developed the drug in the late 1930s and it has actually been used in opiate addiction treatment since the 1950s.

Do I detect a pattern here.. after all, it was Bayer who developed heroin a few years earlier as a "treatment" for morphine addiction

Do I detect a pattern here.. after all, it was Bayer who developed heroin a few years earlier as a "treatment" for morphine addiction


Bayer makes some cool stuff.

I had a carpenter ant problem in one of my trees that I discovered last week.  I hit that tree hard with some Bayer carpenter ant elixir, and now there is not Ant One anywhere near that tree.  ;)

Bayer makes some cool stuff.

I had a carpenter ant problem in one of my trees that I discovered last week.  I hit that tree hard with some Bayer carpenter ant elixir, and now there is not Ant One anywhere near that tree.   ;)


Them carpenter ants, they ain't stoned.  They dead
8)

I was listening to Dr Drew on Loveline the other night.

He commented that withdrawal from Methadone is much more difficult than from heroin, and that in fact methadone is far more addictive than heroin.  Thus he never advocates methadone treatment for addiction because it actually WORSENS the addiction problem.

I was listening to Dr Drew on Loveline the other night.

He commented that withdrawal from Methadone is much more difficult than from heroin, and that in fact methadone is far more addictive than heroin.  Thus he never advocates methadone treatment for addiction because it actually WORSENS the addiction problem.


The problem is they've made heroin a schedule I substance, which makes its use totally illegal anytime anywhere.  Thus they use synthetics such as methadone for treatment.  However, Dr. Drew is right, as far as I can see.  It is not treatment so much as maintenance.  Methadone from a clinic does not contain the various toxins in impure street heroin.  It also obviates the needle, which reduces the chance of contracting hepatitis, HIV, and other communicable diseases from dirty needles. 

However, a long tapering off of heroin using heroin provided by a clinic would be better than methadone, but as it stands, it's illegal. 

The bottom line is the addict must want to overcome his addiction and few addicts who are court-ordered into treatment really want to, so they won't.
::)

The problem is they've made heroin a schedule I substance, which makes its use totally illegal anytime anywhere.  Thus they use synthetics such as methadone for treatment.  However, Dr. Drew is right, as far as I can see.  It is not treatment so much as maintenance.  Methadone from a clinic does not contain the various toxins in impure street heroin.  It also obviates the needle, which reduces the chance of contracting hepatitis, HIV, and other communicable diseases from dirty needles. 

However, a long tapering off of heroin using heroin provided by a clinic would be better than methadone, but as it stands, it's illegal. 

The bottom line is the addict must want to overcome his addiction and few addicts who are court-ordered into treatment really want to, so they won't.
::)


I have a friend who has been prescribed a form of opium, so its doable. 

I have a friend who has been prescribed a form of opium, so its doable. 


Heck, you can a scrip for morphine (INN), which is a step down in refinement from heroin...but the heroin junkie wants his heroin, and that's that!