Well, looks like Arizona is gonna get smacked around some more.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/12/arizona.ethnic.studies/

Of course, it should not be a surprise to most that I actually agree with this bill.  Just as I agree with the sentiment of a great philosopher and statesman of the past who said:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans.  Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad.  But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.  The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic.  There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

Ditto

And I was looking for information about this law, and found that another great American shares my beliefs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc

And I was looking for information about this law, and found that another great American shares my beliefs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc


http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sign10.gif

Unless you're a hippie who just wants to smoke some grass,
Then you can take your freedom and blow it out your ass!

Is that you, John Wayne?
Is this me?

Fresh on the heels of a new immigration law that has led to calls to boycott her state, Arizona's governor has signed a bill banning ethnic studies classes that "promote resentment" of other racial groups.

Arizona not wanting to talk about racism is like Jeffrey Dahmer not wanting to talk about cannibalism!
Gimme a frikkin' break!

Well, looks like Arizona is gonna get smacked around some more.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/12/arizona.ethnic.studies/

Of course, it should not be a surprise to most that I actually agree with this bill.  Just as I agree with the sentiment of a great philosopher and statesman of the past who said:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans.  Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad.  But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.  The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic.  There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.


I don't know who said this and don't really care.  Its bull dung regardless.  I remember a statement by a student who was asked how his ethnic background manifested itself in his life.  He said "I'm Irish and Italian background and all I know is that I love Guinness with my pasta."  And that's the whole point.

Tucson already has a history of pushing forward its own agendas with ethnic courses.  It's actually what inspired this law to begin with.

For the record, I completely support this law, because it's just as bad when a class tries to proselytize to students that they are victims of oppression as it is when curriculums are whitewashed to serve other agendas like what Texas is doing.

Unfortunately, it would seem that America is unable to simply educate students without pushing some agenda or another.

I don't know who said this and don't really care.  Its bull dung regardless.  I remember a statement by a student who was asked how his ethnic background manifested itself in his life.  He said "I'm Irish and Italian background and all I know is that I love Guinness with my pasta."  And that's the whole point.


Actually, it was Theodore Roosevelt.  I did not realize I did not say who it was. 

Wow, another bad idea law from Arizona,  this must be a day that ends in y!

::)

Why are people getting bent out of shape on this one?

The new law forbids elementary or secondary schools to teach classes that are "designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group" and advocate "the overthrow of the United States government" or "resentment toward a race or class of people."

Maybe it's this part "designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group".  Though even that sounds reasonable, there shouldn't be a need at the K-12 level for a course to focus exclusively on a particular minority group. I guess it's a good distraction from BP destroying the gulf coast at the moment.

What they REALLY mean is they want a nationalistic curriculum in which the white ruling class shall be proven to have done no wrong.  That's all.
::)

What they REALLY mean is they want a nationalistic curriculum in which the white ruling class shall be proven to have done no wrong.  That's all.
::)


That's the way it was when I was growing up.  I learned quickly that I was not quite an American, American Lite I guess you would call it today.

What they REALLY mean is they want a nationalistic curriculum in which the white ruling class shall be proven to have done no wrong.  That's all.
::)


You're confusing Arizona with Texas.

That's the way it was when I was growing up.  I learned quickly that I was not quite an American, American Lite I guess you would call it today.


Well, going to public school in Massachusetts, I learned we were the good guys because we were on the Union side and Boston was the cradle of the American Revolution.  Slavery, racism, bigotry, intolerance, that's the South, the dirty old South!  Not in Boston, no sireee, heh heh!

My parents lived in Dorchester while my dad was in grad school.  He was also a teacher in the 'burbs during the busing riots.  My mom pulled my oldest sister out of ballet classes when she found out Mrs. Whatshername didn't admit "Negro" students.  My mom bawled her out about it, but the ballet teacher couldn't care less about some hippie chick going on about the "darkies."  That was 1969!  My father had a friend in grad school from Charlotte, NC.  The first thing he commented when he got to Boston was how segregated the city was!

So, I figured the public schools were leaving inconvenient facts out of the curriculum. 
::)

Well, going to public school in Massachusetts, I learned we were the good guys because we were on the Union side and Boston was the cradle of the American Revolution.  Slavery, racism, bigotry, intolerance, that's the South, the dirty old South!  Not in Boston, no sireee, heh heh!


Yea, sure.  That is why some of the regions noted for inclusion in the 1965 Voting Rights act include:

New York City
Alaska
Arizona
California
South Dakota
New Hampshire
Michigan

In the act, it included part or all of 8 "Southern" states (9 if you count Florida), and 6 Northern and Western states.

Yea, sure.  That is why some of the regions noted for inclusion in the 1965 Voting Rights act include:

New York City
Alaska
Arizona
California
South Dakota
New Hampshire
Michigan

In the act, it included part or all of 8 "Southern" states (9 if you count Florida), and 6 Northern and Western states.


Well, those are all understandable.  For instance, Alaska and South Dakota have significant Native American populations.  New Hampshire is an interesting case.  We actually lived in NH until I was 14.  There were very few Black people in NH to start with, and practically no Latinos until the seventies, and they tended to be in Manchester and Nashua, the largest cities.  If you heard somebody speaking a foreign language in NH in 1965, it was French.  NH borders Quebec. 

New Hampshire has traditionally been farther Right than it's surrounding New England states, but the funny thing is the rabid far-right craziness didn't really pick up until AFTER Civil Rights when a doojbag named Meldrim Thomson was voted in as governor.  He was somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun.  Between Thomson and William Loeb III, publisher of the Manchester Loony-Reader, I mean Union-Leader, the state became a political powder keg in the 1970s!
:o

Well, going to public school in Massachusetts, I learned we were the good guys because we were on the Union side and Boston was the cradle of the American Revolution.  Slavery, racism, bigotry, intolerance, that's the South, the dirty old South!  Not in Boston, no sireee, heh heh!


::)


George Wallace won South Boston in the 1976 Presidential primaries.  My understanding is that that was the only district north of the Mason Dixon that gave him the majority vote. He went there and was treated like a king. When you consider that Southie pols pretty much run the state, well.......

In 1981, I was living in the Kingston, New York area with my mother & step-father. I was in a play at the Woodstock Playhouse and there was this other girl who lived in Kingston also in the play. Since we had to go through Kingston, I asked my parents if they could pick her up since she needed a ride and it was on the way. No problem. She was waiting on the porch just like she said she would be and everything ran smoothly. She didn't need a ride home so when my parents picked me up after rehearsal, the first thing my step-father said to me was, "Why didn't you tell us she was black?"  :o :o :o :o  I was just caught off guard. She was my friend and she needed a ride. I didn't think the color of her skin was an issue. I don't recall if I asked him if he would have still agreed to pick her up if he had known.



Cat

My position on all of this is that the public schools (I am talking K-12 here) have no business teaching "ethnic studies" that single out any ethnic group, ie "Black studies", "Native American Studies", "Polish Studies", and so on.

I do believe that a healthy curriculum SHOULD include study of the general civil rights issue and its evolution.  Maybe 100 years ago, Italians were considered only one step up from a black, and Irish were considered only one step up from an Italian.  Chinese were not very high on the pecking order either.

A healthy civil rights curriculum would expose students to the evolution of racism (etc) in the United States and how the law has evolved to correct past sins (against the various aforementioned grouips), as this is a matter of civic history.  But to then extend this to some sort of "ethnic pride" thing I do not believe is the business of our schools.

I never understood this whole "ethnic pride" thing anyway.  I am Scottish and Irish.  But I am not "proud" of that.  Why would I be "proud" of that? I didn't do anything to cause it.  I am proud that I graduated from college.  Proud that I support myself financially.  Proud that I mentor younger people.  Proud that I think I usually "do the right thing".  I am proud of things that I have caused to happen.  My ethnicity is simply a matter of accident on my part.

Ethnic "pride" is nothing but a method of pitting ethnic groups against one another.  "Pride" in one's ethnic group implies that one is happy that they are not part of some other group.. which must in some way be inferior or an adversary.

I never understood this whole "ethnic pride" thing anyway.  I am Scottish and Irish. 


See, yinz ain't nothin' but po' hillbilly trash!  Go eat yer city chicken and dippy cruds, ya dumb coker!

;)

It's like I said to that old Polish polka guy who referred to Puerto Ricans as "spics," and the Irish mobster who was crowing about all the bodegas in Holyoke and the freeloaders on section 8 --

"They got names for your people too, and our people weren't wanted around these parts either when we came here!"

I do have an Irish ancestor who migrated to Holyoke, Mass., in 1857, but the truth is I'm mostly WASP.  You don't see any WASP PRIDE bumper stickers.  Why?  We don't need them!

I guess what I'm saying is the value of "ethnic studies" depends on how far you are from being treated like dirt because of the color of your skin, your creed, or your tongue. 

How can you study American History WITHOUT studying ethnic issues? When I was in high school, I didn't know that anyone did anything in the country except dead, white, European males. I didn't know how much blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, and even women all added to this nation's building. Unfortunately, most history books do NOT cover the achievements of other ethnic groups-except the dead, white, European males. And if they DO actually mention it, it is usually only a paragraph or two.

We learn about medical pioneers like Dr. Jonus Salk and Dr. Alexander Fleming but do people know who Dr. Charles Drew was? He developed a way to separate plasma from blood which saves many, many lives on a daily basis. The sad part about it was that he died at the age of 45 from injuries sustained by car crash in 1950-because he was not let into the hospital because he was black.


http://www.redcross.org/museum/history/charlesdrew.asp



Cat    

How can you study American History WITHOUT studying ethnic issues? When I was in high school, I didn't know that anyone did anything in the country except dead, white, European males. I didn't know how much blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, and even women all added to this nation's building. Unfortunately, most history books do NOT cover the achievements of other ethnic groups-except the dead, white, European males. And if they DO actually mention it, it is usually only a paragraph or two.

We learn about medical pioneers like Dr. Jonus Salk and Dr. Alexander Fleming but do people know who Dr. Charles Drew was? He developed a way to separate plasma from blood which saves many, many lives on a daily basis. The sad part about it was that he died at the age of 45 from injuries sustained by car crash in 1950-because he was not let into the hospital because he was black.


http://www.redcross.org/museum/history/charlesdrew.asp



Cat    


True.  And even most white males were considered rabble -- no money, no property, no literacy.  LB said his folks were Scottish and Irish, hence the hillbilly joke.  Most of that stock came over as indentured servants and died within three years.  The survivors who either paid off their debt or escaped from their masters ran into the hills -- the Appalachian mountains becoming the "hillbillies" of "Appalachia." 

The Pilgrims of the 17th century and the guys with the three-cornered hats of the 18th century were few in numbers.  There is an old saw, "history is written by the winners," but the winners don't own history.  If we only learn about Washington at Valley Forge and such, we get a very myopic view what went on in daily life.  It's tantamount to studying life in the 1980s by watching "Top Gun."
::)

How can you study American History WITHOUT studying ethnic issues? When I was in high school, I didn't know that anyone did anything in the country except dead, white, European males. I didn't know how much blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, and even women all added to this nation's building. Unfortunately, most history books do NOT cover the achievements of other ethnic groups-except the dead, white, European males. And if they DO actually mention it, it is usually only a paragraph or two.

We learn about medical pioneers like Dr. Jonus Salk and Dr. Alexander Fleming but do people know who Dr. Charles Drew was? He developed a way to separate plasma from blood which saves many, many lives on a daily basis. The sad part about it was that he died at the age of 45 from injuries sustained by car crash in 1950-because he was not let into the hospital because he was black.


http://www.redcross.org/museum/history/charlesdrew.asp  


I think the point of the Arizona law was to eliminate ethnic courses that push an agenda, like the Latino ones that are present in Tucson.  Obviously, U.S. History overall is a study of many cultures coming together to accomplish things.

I think the point of the Arizona law was to eliminate ethnic courses that push an agenda, like the Latino ones that are present in Tucson.  Obviously, U.S. History overall is a study of many cultures coming together to accomplish things.



The "Latino agenda"? WTF is that? To me, the term is just a euphemism for racism. It is the same thing as the "gay agenda". It is a term to make people afraid. Oh no, they are trying to , "promote the overthrow of the U.S. government".



Cat

The "Latino agenda"? WTF is that? To me, the term is just a euphemism for racism. It is the same thing as the "gay agenda". It is a term to make people afraid. Oh no, they are trying to , "promote the overthrow of the U.S. government".


The law is targeted against groups like MEChA, which has as it's motto "For the Race, everything, outside the Race, nothing", and their symbol an eagle holding an Aztec sword and a lit stick of dynamite.  Some of their (and other groups) have gone as far as suggesting that the Southern states be returned to Mexico, and all caucasians be ejected from the region.  To them, this is a fantasy-land known as Aztlan.  And their own Constitution states:

Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán.

And their constant self-referal to themselves as "The Race" reminds me all to much of past leaders and organizations that did the same thing.  There is a difference between self-awareness and settting yourself up as being superior.

MEChA is he new NAMBLA. 
::)

The "Latino agenda"? WTF is that? To me, the term is just a euphemism for racism. It is the same thing as the "gay agenda". It is a term to make people afraid. Oh no, they are trying to , "promote the overthrow of the U.S. government".



Cat


http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_freirian-pedagogy.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321427386/chainreadin04-20


Both links refer to significant books in the Tucson curriculum.  I'm all for giving people a comprehensive education regarding history, but clearly, there is an agenda being pushed by the Tucson curriculum.

It's tantamount to studying life in the 1980s by watching "Top Gun."
::)


Indeed.  Without a Jewish Ethnic Studies program, how else would people learn that Dave Skilken was the tour "Trim Cooordinator" for the Beastie Boys during that decade?  

;D

http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_freirian-pedagogy.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321427386/chainreadin04-20


Both links refer to significant books in the Tucson curriculum.  I'm all for giving people a comprehensive education regarding history, but clearly, there is an agenda being pushed by the Tucson curriculum.


The problem is that all education has an agenda.  The question is, whose agenda.  Traditional teaching, pegged to the standard narrative, was just as political as anything Freire advocated.  For example, in grad school one week we read two books on US foreign policy, one called "Dollar Diplomacy" and the other called "US Intervention in the Caribbean", one Marxist the other traditional.  The seminar was asked which was most biased.  Most students said Dollar Diplomacy.  I said they were equally biased because every interpretation is biased in one way or another.  The problem is that we don't recognize the bias in the interpretations we have been fed from kindergarten on.

Not being familiar with the Tucson curriculum I can't say that it doesn't go too far, but I do think this law does.

The problem is that all education has an agenda.  The question is, whose agenda.  Traditional teaching, pegged to the standard narrative, was just as political as anything Freire advocated.  For example, in grad school one week we read two books on US foreign policy, one called "Dollar Diplomacy" and the other called "US Intervention in the Caribbean", one Marxist the other traditional.  The seminar was asked which was most biased.  Most students said Dollar Diplomacy.  I said they were equally biased because every interpretation is biased in one way or another.  The problem is that we don't recognize the bias in the interpretations we have been fed from kindergarten on.

Not being familiar with the Tucson curriculum I can't say that it doesn't go too far, but I do think this law does.


Well, wouldn't you say that the optimal law here would require a balance of the perspectives involved?

Maybe the best approach would be to require that the volume of material on either extreme should be equal.  That way, students are given a more balanced perspective overall.

The problem is that all education has an agenda.  The question is, whose agenda. 


Exactamundo!  For ten thousand years, education consisted of teaching children the history of the tribe and how to survive in the world.  Pretty good agenda.  So, you're a six-year-old Navajo boy living on foodstamps in a rusty trailer and watching jumbo jets headed for Phoenix, and you're wondering, "well, how did we get here?"

To answer that boy's question with any degree of truth, you're going to have to engage in what the Arizona legislature is trying to call "ethnic studies." 

When they say "no ethnic studies," it's like saying we will teach the Jewish kids about World War II, but no mentioning the holocaust!
::)

When they say "no ethnic studies," it's like saying we will teach the Jewish kids about World War II, but no mentioning the holocaust!
::)



That's how history was taught in Germany AFTER WWII. They didn't want to admit the Holocaust happened in their country.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

                                            -George Santayana


Cat

That's how history was taught in Germany AFTER WWII. They didn't want to admit the Holocaust happened in their country.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

                                            -George Santayana


Cat


Well, Japan still doesn't teach its students what it did to Manchuria or the Philippines.  They certainly teach them about the bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima though.  They just don't bother to provide a context for why we did that.

Exactamundo!  For ten thousand years, education consisted of teaching children the history of the tribe and how to survive in the world.  Pretty good agenda.  So, you're a six-year-old Navajo boy living on foodstamps in a rusty trailer and watching jumbo jets headed for Phoenix, and you're wondering, "well, how did we get here?"

To answer that boy's question with any degree of truth, you're going to have to engage in what the Arizona legislature is trying to call "ethnic studies." 

When they say "no ethnic studies," it's like saying we will teach the Jewish kids about World War II, but no mentioning the holocaust!
::)


Surely you can elaborate on American history without relying on a Marxist propagandist.  Unfortunately, Tucson apparently can't.

When they say "no ethnic studies," it's like saying we will teach the Jewish kids about World War II, but no mentioning the holocaust!
::)


That's odd.  I have never taken an "ethnic studies" course in my public school near Picksburgh, yet somehow they managed to teach us about the Holocaust, slavery, discrimination against Italians and Irish, the civil rights movement, the whole bit.

That's odd.  I have never taken an "ethnic studies" course in my public school near Picksburgh, yet somehow they managed to teach us about the Holocaust, slavery, discrimination against Italians and Irish, the civil rights movement, the whole bit.


Nothing about the holocaust, slaves actually had it pretty good, but we freed you anyway so why don't you go back where you came from because you haven't done anything since anyway, All Capone, The Irish...well growing up in the Boston area you were pretty much forced into green on St Patricks Day, taught Irish songs, and were taught(by teachers) there were two kinds of people, those who were Irish and those who wish they were, I grew up in the civil rights era, but I know kids who came after me don't have a clue, I know one guy who was surprised when I told him there was a President who got shot and died(NO WAY!)

I grew up in the civil rights era, but I know kids who came after me don't have a clue, I know one guy who was surprised when I told him there was a President who got shot and died(NO WAY!)


Well there is certainly no shortage of stupidity in the schools, that's for sure.

I was watching the news last night and there was a story about Chicago.  They asked a couple of high school kids "How many murders do you think there were in Chicago in 2009" and the students replied "I don't know, maybe 15 or 16?".  ;D

Nothing about the holocaust, slaves actually had it pretty good, but we freed you anyway so why don't you go back where you came from because you haven't done anything since anyway, All Capone, The Irish...well growing up in the Boston area you were pretty much forced into green on St Patricks Day, taught Irish songs, and were taught(by teachers) there were two kinds of people, those who were Irish and those who wish they were, I grew up in the civil rights era, but I know kids who came after me don't have a clue, I know one guy who was surprised when I told him there was a President who got shot and died(NO WAY!)


That seems more like a statement against public schooling than a defense of ethnic studies or pushing agendas.

Nothing about the holocaust, slaves actually had it pretty good, but we freed you anyway so why don't you go back where you came from because you haven't done anything since anyway, All Capone, The Irish...well growing up in the Boston area you were pretty much forced into green on St Patricks Day, taught Irish songs, and were taught(by teachers) there were two kinds of people, those who were Irish and those who wish they were, I grew up in the civil rights era, but I know kids who came after me don't have a clue, I know one guy who was surprised when I told him there was a President who got shot and died(NO WAY!)


Top o' the marnin' to ye!  They didn't call it "ethnic studies," now did they?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/pfiade.gif

Top o' the marnin' to ye!  They didn't call it "ethnic studies," now did they?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/pfiade.gif


Nope!  They called it history.

That seems more like a statement against public schooling than a defense of ethnic studies or pushing agendas.


Problem is what should be all a part of history, but is pretty much excluded, is called ethnic studies.

Some PC people resented the term "ethnic," the reason being that only white Christians were considered non-ethnics when white Christians made up less than 10% of the world's population.  That's one way of looking at it.

I found this out when I started using the term "ethnic music" instead of "world music."  The irony was I used "ethnic" to describe the folk and ceremonial musics of various cultures because "world music" had been co-opted by Peter Gabriel, David Byrne, and Paul Simon -- three white guys!
:D

Anyway, we're all "ethnic" in our own way, it's just that the white Christians dominated the world for 500 years.  Now, we could soon be out of a job owing to low birth rates and high debts destroying our hegemony.  Maybe in a century our Chinese overlords will be saying, "Irish, French, German...who cares?  You all look the same.  School doesn't do you people any good anyway.  Get back to the rice paddies!"
:o

Some PC people resented the term "ethnic," the reason being that only white Christians were considered non-ethnics when white Christians made up less than 10% of the world's population.  That's one way of looking at it.

I found this out when I started using the term "ethnic music" instead of "world music."  The irony was I used "ethnic" to describe the folk and ceremonial musics of various cultures because "world music" had been co-opted by Peter Gabriel, David Byrne, and Paul Simon -- three white guys!
:D

Anyway, we're all "ethnic" in our own way, it's just that the white Christians dominated the world for 500 years.  Now, we could soon be out of a job owing to low birth rates and high debts destroying our hegemony.  Maybe in a century our Chinese overlords will be saying, "Irish, French, German...who cares?  You all look the same.  School doesn't do you people any good anyway.  Get back to the rice paddies!"
:o


Sometimes people use "ethnic" as a code word, much like they use "urban" as a code word.  Like "Urban Utes".  ;)

Problem is what should be all a part of history, but is pretty much excluded, is called ethnic studies.


If it's any consolation, I support making the general history curriculum more comprehensive regarding all the major cultural contributions to our history.  However, I think we should be careful not to include any especially slanted sources.  We don't need a whitewashed, patriotic version of history, but we also don't need a Marxist propagandist version either.

If it's any consolation, I support making the general history curriculum more comprehensive regarding all the major cultural contributions to our history.  However, I think we should be careful not to include any especially slanted sources.  We don't need a whitewashed, patriotic version of history, but we also don't need a Marxist propagandist version either.



A little less Texas, a lot more Zinn

A little less Texas, a lot more Zinn


I can go for that.

A little less Texas, a lot more Zinn


My favorite Texans are Molly Ivins and Hank Hill.  One of them is dead, the other one is a cartoon!
:-\\

I can go for that.


Me too, but there are those who say that Zinn is very biased and very left wing.

Me too, but there are those who say that Zinn is very biased and very left wing.


Which translates to "educated beyond his station"  ;D

A little less Texas, a lot more Zinn



A good place to post these photos again.  ;)



http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww64/CatwomanofV/Zinn/Zinn004.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww64/CatwomanofV/Zinn/Zinn006.jpg



Cat

^ A meeting of two great spirits. 
:)

I once got to shake Zinn's hand.  It was electrifying!  (No, Dr. Zinn was not wearing a joy buzzer!)

My sister is home-schooling my niece.  When she gets to high school, I hope she will read "People's History."  It is written from the point-of-view of labor, rather than big government and big capital.

Exactamundo!  For ten thousand years, education consisted of teaching children the history of the tribe and how to survive in the world.  Pretty good agenda.  So, you're a six-year-old Navajo boy living on foodstamps in a rusty trailer and watching jumbo jets headed for Phoenix, and you're wondering, "well, how did we get here?"


...by finding himself in a beautiful house, with a beautful wife?

Actually, I'd annoy both the left and the right by handing out Guns, Germs, and Steel. 

He's there because of an accident of geography: his people (and the people of Africa) had nobody in the same climate with whom to trade, and the Europeans - having migrated from original Fertile Crescent (where cattle and horses were first domesticated, and humanity adapted to the diseases associated with cows, chickens, and pigs) were able to trade along easily-traveled east/west routes, which led to technology transfer between Europe and China (where gunpowder was invented), and the rest, quite literally, was history.

His people were no less smart than the Europeans, but their immune systems didn't have a 4000+ year headstart on the diseases that come from living with cows (cowpox, a close relative of smallpox), and their engineers never had the chance to meet anyone who'd forged steel or figured out how gunpowder worked.  Pure dumb luck on both sides.

...and then I'd get sued because his culture's creation myth conflicts with the evidence that his ancestors got here by crossing the land bridge ~11K years ago during the last ice age.  Creationists on the right, creationists on the left, here I am, stuck in the middle with rationality.  *sigh*

...by finding himself in a beautiful house, with a beautful wife?

Actually, I'd annoy both the left and the right by handing out Guns, Germs, and Steel. 

He's there because of an accident of geography: his people (and the people of Africa) had nobody in the same climate with whom to trade, and the Europeans - having migrated from original Fertile Crescent (where cattle and horses were first domesticated, and humanity adapted to the diseases associated with cows, chickens, and pigs) were able to trade along easily-traveled east/west routes, which led to technology transfer between Europe and China (where gunpowder was invented), and the rest, quite literally, was history.

His people were no less smart than the Europeans, but their immune systems didn't have a 4000+ year headstart on the diseases that come from living with cows (cowpox, a close relative of smallpox), and their engineers never had the chance to meet anyone who'd forged steel or figured out how gunpowder worked.  Pure dumb luck on both sides.

...and then I'd get sued because his culture's creation myth conflicts with the evidence that his ancestors got here by crossing the land bridge ~11K years ago during the last ice age.  Creationists on the right, creationists on the left, here I am, stuck in the middle with rationality.  *sigh*


+ Karma for picking up on the Talking Heads reference and citing Jared Diamond. 
:)

^ A meeting of two great spirits. 
:)

I once got to shake Zinn's hand.  It was electrifying!  (No, Dr. Zinn was not wearing a joy buzzer!)

My sister is home-schooling my niece.  When she gets to high school, I hope she will read "People's History."  It is written from the point-of-view of labor, rather than big government and big capital.


I used to assign "Peoples History" to my freshmen, along with a standard text.  Less well know but just as good is Zinn's "Declarations of Independence".  He also did a cartoon book called "A Peoples History of the American Empire" which is quite good.

http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_freirian-pedagogy.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321427386/chainreadin04-20


Both links refer to significant books in the Tucson curriculum.  I'm all for giving people a comprehensive education regarding history, but clearly, there is an agenda being pushed by the Tucson curriculum.


When the first review of the book on Amazon praises Ward Churchill, I know the book has to be one big piece of coprolite.

And that is exactly what the law is trying to prevent.  My wife is Hispanic, my son is Hispanic.  I certainly have no problem learning about their culture.  But in Tuscon, it means Mexican -American culture, with heavy emphasis on the Mexican part.  And how the Americans stole their land, and how they have been oppressed for over 150 years, even though they deserve to be the masters.

Well, Japan still doesn't teach its students what it did to Manchuria or the Philippines.  They certainly teach them about the bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima though.  They just don't bother to provide a context for why we did that.


Sure they do.  The evil and racist United States cut off their natural resources for no reason, and tried to limit their expansion into what was their natural sphere of influence.  They were finally forced to go to war, against their will, rather then see their nation starve.

And no, I am not kidding.  Some even tell how the Chinese invited them in, and that the Rape of Nanking was simply a purge of bandits.

And don't forget their treatment of Koreans.  But since Korea was part of Japan, they do not feel the need to mention the decades of slave labor the Koreans were forced to endure.

When the first review of the book on Amazon praises Ward Churchill, I know the book has to be one big piece of coprolite.

And that is exactly what the law is trying to prevent.  My wife is Hispanic, my son is Hispanic.  I certainly have no problem learning about their culture.  But in Tuscon, it means Mexican -American culture, with heavy emphasis on the Mexican part.  And how the Americans stole their land, and how they have been oppressed for over 150 years, even though they deserve to be the masters.


But Americans DID steal their land, and DID oppress them for 150 years!??

But Americans DID steal their land, and DID oppress them for 150 years!??


;)

But Americans DID steal their land, and DID oppress them for 150 years!??

But Spaniards also stole their land and oppressed them for longer than that beforehand.

We can play this game all day, but it gets you nowhere.

The fact is, we've owned the land for a long time now.  Some of them are trying to get it back via immigration, and well, they'll probably succeed in the long run.  This is why I'm moving to Canada, because the last thing I'd want to deal with is living in a country similar to Mexico.

But Spaniards also stole their land and oppressed them for longer than that beforehand.

We can play this game all day, but it gets you nowhere.

The fact is, we've owned the land for a long time now.  Some of them are trying to get it back via immigration, and well, they'll probably succeed in the long run.  This is why I'm moving to Canada, because the last thing I'd want to deal with is living in a country similar to Mexico.



It isn't the immigrants that are bringing us closer to the lifestyle of Mexico, it is the corporations trying to bring the lifestyle of the common person down to that level.

It isn't the immigrants that are bringing us closer to the lifestyle of Mexico, it is the corporations trying to bring the lifestyle of the common person down to that level.


I'd say it's both, actually.

I'd say it's both, actually.


Immigrants have always added to the cultural mix while assimilating.  The fear of immigrant cultures "taking over" America is one that goes back to the mass migration of Irish, Italians, and Jewish peoples.  Most would care to ignore that there ancestors came here under similar circumstances, and lived similar lives as the lives being experienced by the wave we are currently seeing.  These waves became loyal Americans, as will the current crop.

Corporations, on the other hand, have become multinationals holding allegiance only to the bottom line, be it in dollars, francs, yen, or pounds.

Immigrants have always added to the cultural mix while assimilating.  The fear of immigrant cultures "taking over" America is one that goes back to the mass migration of Irish, Italians, and Jewish peoples.  Most would care to ignore that there ancestors came here under similar circumstances, and lived similar lives as the lives being experienced by the wave we are currently seeing.  These waves became loyal Americans, as will the current crop.

Corporations, on the other hand, have become multinationals holding allegiance only to the bottom line, be it in dollars, francs, yen, or pounds.


Barry Dunsmore, former diplomat and now editorial regular, wrote about this today with regard to hedge fund operators and the financial sector having more power than governments because of their control over the value of the various currencies

Barry Dunsmore, former diplomat and now editorial regular, wrote about this today with regard to hedge fund operators and the financial sector having more power than governments because of their control over the value of the various currencies



Who's in charge here?

Published: May 30, 2010

oo many Greek men are sitting around in cafes drinking ouzo and dreaming of retirement at age 52. If you believe what passes for analysis on the financial pages and the cable TV business shows, that's why what's left of my retirement funds are now once again on the skids. For most of this month, "investors are nervous" has been the cliché of the day. Investors are said to fear: Greek government debt, contagion of debt problems to Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy, the falling value of the Euro – and how all of this will thwart global economic recovery. Those fears have driven world markets down about 10 percent and wiped out all of the stock market gains of 2010.

Even as a modest investor I have been nervous. But what I truly fear is not lazy Greek workers or, even more relevant to the debt issue, the well-heeled Greeks, Italians and Spaniards for whom tax evasion is the real national pastime. What I dread are the giant hedge funds and currency speculators who wield trillions of dollars in assets with which to drive a country – or an entire continent – into financial ruin. Using the same instruments that greatly exacerbated the Crash of 2008 – "naked shorts" and "credit default swaps" – these people have been systematically driving down the value of the euro and making all of us tiny investors poorer, while they make a killing.

Without going into the weeds to explain these instruments, trust me when I say they make it possible for large speculators to bet against any currency they decide to attack — at very little risk to themselves. It's like placing bets at the roulette table when you pretty much control the wheel. These financial behemoths of various nationalities truly are a world – and a power – unto themselves.

This is not meant to be a screed against the rich. (I would like very much to be rich myself.) I also concede that Europe has real sovereign debt issues. But these problems are being greatly aggravated by unelected currency speculators and hedge fund managers whose sole motive is quick and massive profit, no matter the costs to society. Yet, I regret to report that in my geezerdom, one of things that has become clear to me is that presidential or prime ministerial power, and/or governmental power generally, is increasingly limited. The real power seems to be in the world's financial markets and the mega multi-national corporations that effectively control them.

Perhaps the best illustration of the markets' power is that when greed and corruption threatened to bring the whole system down in 2008, governments around the world threw all caution to the wind and stepped in to prevent global economic collapse (which for all of our sakes was absolutely necessary.) But within a year the same banks and financial institutions that were saved by us taxpayers again began rewarding themselves with obscene bonuses on grounds that their companies had made billions in 2009. (If I could have obtained virtually free money from the government and could loan unlimited amounts out at 4 percent to 6 percent, I would have had a good year too.)

In spite of whatever gets passed in terms of new financial reform, I can't escape the anxiety that we have permanently entered the territory where profits are privatized but losses are socialized. It's not just that several major American financial institutions are "too big to fail." It's that far too many international corporations are too big and powerful to effectively regulate. I'm thinking particularly of Big Oil.

During Bush II, we had both a president and vice president who had become wealthy through their ties to the oil business. It's now known that at some point during Dick Cheney's secret consultations with the oil companies to remake energy policy, the oil folks complained that the government's proposed acoustic blow-out preventers at half a million dollars each, were too expensive. They claimed this was a waste of money as drilling off shore was perfectly safe and such a device would never be needed. Cheney and Bush gave them a pass.

It's long been known that the Department of the Interior has been co-opted by Big Oil. Gale Norton, Bush's Interior secretary for six years, has been under investigation by the Justice Department for allegedly using her position to further the interests of Royal Dutch Shell — a company she joined as legal counsel just a few months after she left her government job.

Another real mess at Interior has been in the Mineral Management Services, the office charged with collecting the royalties, conducting the inspections and enforcing the regulations for off shore drillings. A series of investigations by the department's inspector general have found major ethical lapses on the part of numerous MMS employees. In return for lax enforcement of regulations, they received everything from sex, drugs and alcohol to free tickets to major sporting events and offers of employment. Much of this has been known since 2007. Obama's Interior Secretary Ken Salazar claims he has been trying to change that corruptive culture since he took over, but based on the latest inspector general findings which came out just this past week, without apparent success.

Both political parties have been infected by the toxic tentacles of Big Oil. And you don't have to look far to see how this shapes the political debate. In theory, BP should be stuck with the full tab of the Gulf of Mexico catastrophe. But there is a law on the books which conceivably could limit certain liabilities to just $75 million. So far, the efforts in the Senate to boost that limitation into the billions have been blocked by two Republican senators from oil states — Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and James Inhofe of Oklahoma — he who famously said in a Senate speech that global warming was the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." In fact the greatest hoax may be the quaint notion that in a democracy, the elected representatives of the people are actually in control.

Barrie Dunsmore is a veteran diplomatic and foreign correspondent for ABC News now living in Charlotte.


http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100530/FEATURES15/5300325/1030/FEATURES15




Cat

Immigrants have always added to the cultural mix while assimilating.  The fear of immigrant cultures "taking over" America is one that goes back to the mass migration of Irish, Italians, and Jewish peoples.  Most would care to ignore that there ancestors came here under similar circumstances, and lived similar lives as the lives being experienced by the wave we are currently seeing.  These waves became loyal Americans, as will the current crop.

Corporations, on the other hand, have become multinationals holding allegiance only to the bottom line, be it in dollars, francs, yen, or pounds.


It's not loyalty I'm worried about.  It's poverty.  My ancestors actually came here before the big waves of the early 1900s, but I understand the parallel.  While it is true that the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans that came during those times did add to our culture and helped fuel our factory economy, it also resulted in depressing wages.

Also, you have to consider that our economy is no longer based on manufacturing.  While there are a significant number of jobs that it seems only illegals will do because of how cheap some employers are, it doesn't address the underlying problem regarding wages.

Finally, you have the issue of poverty in and of itself.  With poverty comes crime.  Several border areas have experienced rises in crime, especially in relation to groups like MS-13.  Phoenix is now the city with the second-highest per capita kidnapping rate in the world.  It would seem that Mexico is exporting its problems here.

That being said, I don't trust multinational corporations either.

I wonder what Linda Ronstadt thinks about what's happening in Arizona? (She's highly Liberal Opinionated).

I wonder what Linda Ronstadt thinks about what's happening in Arizona? (She's highly Liberal Opinionated).


Huh?  Ronstadt said something once at a show in Vegas, and the ditto-heads practically lynched her.  Linda had not realized the proportion of the population that had turned into violent stormtrooper-lite morons since the seventies!
::)

Huh?  Ronstadt said something once at a show in Vegas, and the ditto-heads practically lynched her.  Linda had not realized the proportion of the population that had turned into violent stormtrooper-lite morons since the seventies!
::)


Ronstadt praised Michael Moore with "Farenheit 9/11" and she got booed in Vegas.

Now if she was with Bruce Springsteen...Ronstadt would get an ovation!

Huh?  Ronstadt said something once at a show in Vegas, and the ditto-heads practically lynched her.  Linda had not realized the proportion of the population that had turned into violent stormtrooper-lite morons since the seventies!
::)


Well, Vegas tends to be full of morons in general.

Well, Vegas tends to be full of morons in general.


Luckily, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas  ;) ;)

Luckily, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas  ;) ;)



I hope you are not planning anything when we go in Sept. http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/brodkavelarg.gif




Cat

Luckily, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas  ;) ;)


I don't hear of anything going on in Vegas that would be beneficial to export to society at large, but it sure sounds fun!
;)

I don't hear of anything going on in Vegas that would be beneficial to export to society at large, but it sure sounds fun!
;)


I was referring to the morons