It's pretty bad out there, with massive rioting going on.

::)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/11/2010-03-11_striking_workers_riot_in_greece_over_debt_austerity_plan.html

Could the same thing, happen over here?

It's pretty bad out there, with massive rioting going on.

::)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/11/2010-03-11_striking_workers_riot_in_greece_over_debt_austerity_plan.html

Could the same thing, happen over here?


Could and did, during the great depression and 1930's labor struggles, like the General Motors sit in strike

We're STILL in Depression 2.0.

Don't think we're out of the woods yet.

Greece has not many options going here.

Bottom line is they were spending like drunken Greek sailors, and now they gotta knock that stuff off.   Far as I have read (although I must admit I have not done extensive research on the Greek thing), nobody who is protesting has really offered any alternative to the spending cuts.  They just want to keep borrowing, spending, and partying.

Hopefully a Greek collapse does not serve as a trigger to my prediction (various posts I have made in the past re: the European Union) that an incident like this could kick off belligerent ultranationalism in one or more member countries.

In the old days, a problem like this would be addressed by a country (like Greece) essentially devaluing their currency (a large government debt default does the trick), which tends to increase demand for the country's exports, and combined with rampant inflation, eventually diminishes the country's debt.  Painful, but neveretheless the "pain" largely stays more within that country.

The one-Euro approach now ties everybody together with one Euro currency, so the currency-devaluation option is not so easy to do, and that forces the spending cuts to a much greater degree.  A big problem is that lots of European (non-Greek) banks hold that Greek euro-denominated debt, and a Greek default could wreak havoc in other member nations' banking systems.

The creators of the European Union made an often-made mistake, thinking that "bigger is better".  All they really did was come up with a system in which somebiody else's problem now becomes my problem.

FORTUNATELY... very little of the greek debt is held by American banks, so we do not have much exposure there.  But we could have indirect exposure in terms of investments made with other EU-member-nation banks.

The other EU member nations must be extremely careful as to lending Greece more money, as they run the risk of simply perpetuating the problem and further endangering their own economies.  The lending MUST be predicated on Greek practice changes, with enforcement provisions.  And that's where the whole ultranationalism thing comes in.  There are doubtless plenty of Greeks who will not like their government being forced to do things by other countries.

We're STILL in Depression 2.0.

Don't think we're out of the woods yet.


Oh, I agree with you there.  The American economy is still in a very fragile and depressed state.

All this talk that "the economy is growing"... It has not yet grown back to where it was pre-recession.  In my book that does not mean that politicians should be "high fiving" about the economy.  Call me when industrial production is back to prior levels and stimulus money is paid back.  And we are still seeing plenty of bank failures.

The recent hooplah and government-abetted fibs about the "GM Loan Payback" are a classic case of our Government being more than happy to not tell the truth about the economy.

Our economy has a long way to go to get straightened out.

I alluded to a "neo-medieval basketcase" in another post if the EU breaks down.  It would start with the "ultra-nationalism" LB mentioned.  If Greece feels humiliated and demoralized, if it feels abandoned by the rest of the EU, if civil unrest gets worse, then I can see a fascist party talking "national pride" and "revenge" might have scary appeal.  Of course, if Greece turned into some sort of fascist state (and it was 40 years ago), it wouldn't be the same kind of threat as Nazi Germany was.  It doesn't have the strategic advantages Germany had even when Germany's economy was in the dumper in the 1920s.  Greece could turn into Albania, a miserable totalitarian backwater, and that would be a terrible disgrace.
:(

Painfully true fact...

Britain has worse debt problems than Greece!  :o

Just how much worse is still to be announced...can't wait!

Painfully true fact...

Britain has worse debt problems than Greece!  :o

Just how much worse is still to be announced...can't wait!


Non-euro zone, so don't turn to us for help. :P

Non-euro zone, so don't turn to us for help. :P


Didn't stop Greece asking us for assistance, though...funny, that!  ::)

I alluded to a "neo-medieval basketcase" in another post if the EU breaks down.  It would start with the "ultra-nationalism" LB mentioned.  If Greece feels humiliated and demoralized, if it feels abandoned by the rest of the EU, if civil unrest gets worse, then I can see a fascist party talking "national pride" and "revenge" might have scary appeal.  Of course, if Greece turned into some sort of fascist state (and it was 40 years ago), it wouldn't be the same kind of threat as Nazi Germany was.  It doesn't have the strategic advantages Germany had even when Germany's economy was in the dumper in the 1920s.  Greece could turn into Albania, a miserable totalitarian backwater, and that would be a terrible disgrace.
:(


Max, you and I need to hit the political talk show circuit with our theories regarding the Eurozone.  We'll need a name for our segment... how about "LB to the Max" ???

;D

It's pretty bad out there, with massive rioting going on.

::)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/11/2010-03-11_striking_workers_riot_in_greece_over_debt_austerity_plan.html

Could the same thing, happen over here?


Not likely...  well, not likely outside of California.

California and Greece have a lot in common, actually.  Both of them demanded a ton of entitlements from the government both as citizens and as civil servants.  Both also didn't want to pay the taxes necessary to cover them.  Now, both of them are suffering economically for it.

Greece is far worse off than California, but with their extremely dysfunctional referendum system, they're headed for massive debts much like Greece has already reached.  Both also have people who would rather riot than actually do something productive to fix their problems.

Finally, both will get bailed out by larger entities to compensate for their own fiscal stupidity.  Greece is getting bailed out by the EU and by the IMF, and California will likely get bailed out by the U.S. government.

Granted, as we've seen in the last few years, bailouts are pretty common in America.  We've bailed out the fat cats in Wall Street, GM, and AIG.  It looks like we'll be bailing out more of Wall Street with Goldman Sachs up next.

Rioting won't fix Greece's problems, but higher taxes and fewer entitlements will.

Rioting won't fix our problems either, but sniping a few key individuals on Wall Street and in Congress might....

Max, you and I need to hit the political talk show circuit with our theories regarding the Eurozone.  We'll need a name for our segment... how about "LB to the Max" ???

;D


Greece is the word!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumright.gif


Painfully true fact...

Britain has worse debt problems than Greece!  :o

Just how much worse is still to be announced...can't wait!


Ain't nobody knows how bad Uncle Sam's in debt.  Hope they don't find out!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/usa2.gif

Didn't stop Greece asking us for assistance, though...funny, that!  ::)


I can't speak for Greece.

Oh, I agree with you there.  The American economy is still in a very fragile and depressed state.

All this talk that "the economy is growing"... It has not yet grown back to where it was pre-recession.  In my book that does not mean that politicians should be "high fiving" about the economy.  Call me when industrial production is back to prior levels and stimulus money is paid back.  And we are still seeing plenty of bank failures.

The recent hooplah and government-abetted fibs about the "GM Loan Payback" are a classic case of our Government being more than happy to not tell the truth about the economy.

Our economy has a long way to go to get straightened out.


I agree. My dad has a paving buisness...and he had to sell stuff before he could start-up!

I'm thinking of returning to College to get my Bachelor's Degree!

And IMO...the economy won't recover until we hit 15,000 in the Dow Jones!

It's pretty bad out there, with massive rioting going on.


You're not kidding!.  Crazy friggin' day :)

This would be a good time for the Turks to make good with Greeks.  They could send their own bail-out package.  There will be a big wooden horse parked outside of Athens one morning...
8)

This would be a good time for the Turks to make good with Greeks.  They could send their own bail-out package.  There will be a big wooden horse parked outside of Athens one morning...
8)


Well perhaps the loans could be restructured.  Instead of the paying interest up-front, the Greeks could do just one big back-end transaction.

Well perhaps the loans could be restructured.  Instead of the paying interest up-front, the Greeks could do just one big back-end transaction.


Now you're just talking horsesh*t!
:D

I'm just saying beware of bearing gifts to Greeks...or something.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/dontknow.gif

Timeo Danaos et dona.. hold on, what's the Latin for "requests for bailout packages"?

Now you're just talking horsesh*t!
:D

I'm just saying beware of bearing gifts to Greeks...or something.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/dontknow.gif


I think you mean "Beware of Greeks wearing sneakers"

;D