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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 04/22/10 at 5:57 pm
Seems here in Pennsylvania, in the primary election to see who will fill Senator Arlen "One Bullet" Spectre's senate seat, Senator Spectre has decided to "swift boat" his Democratic primary opponent, Joe Sestak.
Sestak is a 31-year veteran of the US Navy, who retired about 5 years ago with the rank of Three-star Admiral. Moved up through the ranks, commanded a number of missile frigates and destroyers, and ultimately commanded an Aircraft Carrier battle group, and then moved into one of those "desk Admiral" jobs as an assistant to the Chief Naval Officer.
When a new CNO was appointed, the new guy cleaned house and relieved Sestak of his assignment. Sestak then filed for returement a few months later, with an honorable discharge. GUy has quite an impressive array of service commendations and awards.
Spectre is running ads that say that Sestak "was relieved of duty due to a poor command climate", essentially quoting a rumor that was printed in the Navy Times at the time of Sestak's retirement.
Spectre's ads do not mention that ol' One Bullet never commanded a rubber raft let alone a carrier battle group; during the Korean War he served in the Air Force, stateside, piloting a desk.
Pretty crappy treatment of Sestak if you ask me.
Oh and by the way, I would NEVER vote for Sestak as his political positions are pretty crappy. But to attack him for a 31-year decorated career, which ultimately ended because a new Chief Naval Officer decided (as they usually do) that he wanted a new team, is terrible.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: ChuckyG on 04/22/10 at 9:06 pm
Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats???
Arlen Specter is hardly a Democrat after 44 years as a Republican. I agree it's sickening to watch, but to paint him as a Democrat attacking another one is frankly a huge distortion.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 04/22/10 at 10:02 pm
Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats???
Arlen Specter is hardly a Democrat after 44 years as a Republican. I agree it's sickening to watch, but to paint him as a Democrat attacking another one is frankly a huge distortion.
Spectre is the candidate that carries the formal endorsement of the Pennsylvania Democratic Party and is a darling of the DNC. The President has attended fund raisers for his campaign. Thus he is a Democrat. And he is attacking Sestak (whose political views would make Spectre look like Barry Goldwater) over his Naval career. That's not distortion, it is fact.
And the campaign ads are not being conducted by PACs or so-called "soft money". These are ads directly placed by the Spectre campaign and as required by law, in the ad, ol' One Bullet says that he approves of the ad.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/16/10 at 7:23 am
Arlen Specter is hardly a Democrat after 44 years as a Republican. I agree it's sickening to watch, but to paint him as a Democrat attacking another one is frankly a huge distortion.
The "non Democrat" is certainly getting alot of high-level Democrat help in this last week of his campaign.
President O'bama has been prominently featured in ads, proclaiming his support for Spectre, calling him "the real deal".
VP Joe Biden has been calling in to radio shows and call-in ads, aggressively pushing Spectre in this primary.
Bill Clinton is supposed to be showing up in the state on Monday to pitch Spectre's candidacy.
I wonder what these 3 guys were doing back in 2004 when One Bullet was a Republican and running against Democrat Joe Hoeffel? ??? At the time, he only won that election with 51% of the vote.
They had better hope that Spectre wins this primary. Because if he does not, the "Democratic Party establishment" will have clearly exposed themselves as being out of tune with the desires of their membership... the voters.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 05/16/10 at 2:39 pm
The "non Democrat" is certainly getting alot of high-level Democrat help in this last week of his campaign.
President O'bama has been prominently featured in ads, proclaiming his support for Spectre, calling him "the real deal".
VP Joe Biden has been calling in to radio shows and call-in ads, aggressively pushing Spectre in this primary.
Bill Clinton is supposed to be showing up in the state on Monday to pitch Spectre's candidacy.
I wonder what these 3 guys were doing back in 2004 when One Bullet was a Republican and running against Democrat Joe Hoeffel? ??? At the time, he only won that election with 51% of the vote.
They had better hope that Spectre wins this primary. Because if he does not, the "Democratic Party establishment" will have clearly exposed themselves as being out of tune with the desires of their membership... the voters.
They've been doing that since 1993! Bill Clinton, who exposed himself in more ways than one, let the Repubs bully him out of healthcare reform. He also pushed through NAFTA and welfare reform. All completely destructive to the health and morale of the American people. Al Gore published "Earth in the Balance" in 1992, and then kept his trap shut for eight years before picking Satan's bum-wiper Joe Lieberman as his running mate. Kerry was a staunch hawk and Wall Street acolyte who promised little different than what Dubya was giving us. I was just listening to a speech the Keynesian economist James Galbraith (son of John Kenneth) gave in October of 2008 talking about all the great stuff he hoped Obama was going to do to counter the damage Dubya had done. Galbraith said Obama would either be and FDR or a Herbert Hoover. Yeah, we were all hoping for FDR, but it's Hoover all over again.
::)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/16/10 at 3:40 pm
I work for Specter's campaign. First of all he started out as a Democrat. He has always sided more with Democrats than Republicans. When he was a Republican his own party called him a R.H.I.N.O. As for Sestak, let's talk about his slightly underhanded campaign tactics. How he has a keen ability to use parts of what Specter say without being prepared to backtrack and admit what Specter really said. Sestak throw the mud but he sure in heck can't take it. I also heard he's a pain in the ass to work for. :P
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/16/10 at 3:45 pm
I was just listening to a speech the Keynesian economist James Galbraith (son of John Kenneth) gave in October of 2008 talking about all the great stuff he hoped Obama was going to do to counter the damage Dubya had done. Galbraith said Obama would either be and FDR or a Herbert Hoover.
Of course, as a University of Chicago grad who studied economics, I have to state that Keynesian economists' view of the world is quite distorted. Why? Because their heads are so far up their arses that they see the world through a glass belly button. ;D
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/16/10 at 3:56 pm
I work for Specter's campaign. First of all he started out as a Democrat. He has always sided more with Democrats than Republicans. When he was a Republican his own party called him a R.H.I.N.O. As for Sestak, let's talk about his slightly underhanded campaign tactics. How he has a keen ability to use parts of what Specter say without being prepared to backtrack and admit what Specter really said. Sestak throw the mud but he sure in heck can't take it. I also heard he's a pain in the ass to work for. :P
Spectre has no allegiance but unto himself. Way back when, when he initially switched from Democrat to Republican, it was because the incumbent Democrat (I think it was for District Attorney in Philly) was endorsed by the Dem party. So he switched teams to the Republicans so he could F-over his own party. Now we see him doing the same thing in reverse.
And when you talk about mud-throwing, the worst Sestak has done is in the attached video, which is pretty obvious. Meanwhile, Spectre, who did nothing more than fly a desk during the Korean War, tried to throw mud at Sestak, a 3-star Admiral who has combat experience.
What I would like to see is a public debate between Spectre and Cyril Wecht about his famous "one bullet" theory. Wecht would tear him to shreds in a debate over that. Spectre for whatever reasons was part of a massive coverup of the death of a President... who interestingly was of his own Democratic party.
In any event the primary result will be interesting to say the least. I of course want Sestak to beat out Spectre in the primary, to expose how out-of-touch the Democratic hierarchy is with the voters. Then, of course, I want to see Toomey then whip Sestak in the general election. Meanwhile, the Republican party would prefer that Spectre win the primary, as they believe that he will be easier to beat than Sestak, who does not carry near the baggage that Spectre does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x97DdZho11k
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/16/10 at 4:11 pm
He gives the reason in his book as to why he left the Democratic Party. He stated he did not like the way they dealt with things. Philly Democrats were very corrupt back than and in some respects still are. Out of touch Democratic. ::) Specter was gracious enough to hold a web-cam confrerence with his campaign workers in Lancaster. We had the chance to text our comments. I told him the following joke . . . "A senator walks into a bar, the bartender says "Why the long speech". Corny joke but he laughed. Sestak is so freakin out of touch you can't get him on the phone. By the way there is no way in hell Sestak can beat Toomey. He can't carry the mid-state.
Here's one for ya. Arlen asks a very important question. http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/politics/2010/05/16/sotu.specter.ducks.dodges.cnn.html
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 05/16/10 at 5:13 pm
Of course, as a University of Chicago grad who studied economics, I have to state that Keynesian economists' view of the world is quite distorted. Why? Because their heads are so far up their arses that they see the world through a glass belly button. ;D
And you learned supply side economics cannot fail, it can only BE failed!
::)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/16/10 at 5:24 pm
And you learned supply side economics cannot fail, it can only BE failed!
::)
Sadly, Laffer was a U of C tenured professor who did not follow the analytical rigor that is a hallmark at Chicago. His "Laffer curve" literally was developed on a cocktail napkin when dining at the White House. He later claimed that he learned it from John Maynard Keynes. Fortunately he left Chicago some time in the late 1970's, and good riddance.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Don Carlos on 05/17/10 at 9:54 am
Of course, as a University of Chicago grad who studied economics, I have to state that Keynesian economists' view of the world is quite distorted. Why? Because their heads are so far up their arses that they see the world through a glass belly button. ;D
I must say, this is a highly penetrating analysis
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 05/17/10 at 11:18 am
Sadly, Laffer was a U of C tenured professor who did not follow the analytical rigor that is a hallmark at Chicago. His "Laffer curve" literally was developed on a cocktail napkin when dining at the White House. He later claimed that he learned it from John Maynard Keynes. Fortunately he left Chicago some time in the late 1970's, and good riddance.
Exactly! It reminds me of my old Marxist-Leninist friends. The problem is not that the economic system doesn't work, but that in each case where it fails, it's because the leadership corrupted the ideology. Troglodytes like Cheney, Kemp, and Reagan needed a crude drawing on a cocktail napkin to understand what Uncle Miltie really wanted to do. Friedman was the lauded as the great market liberator in the early 1980s. He was the yuppie folk hero.
Remember, if something goes wrong, just blame it on "too much government." Works every time.
::)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: tv on 05/17/10 at 11:34 am
Sestak seems like a nice guy but he's too left wing for my tastes.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: tv on 05/17/10 at 11:39 am
Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats???
Arlen Specter is hardly a Democrat after 44 years as a Republican. I agree it's sickening to watch, but to paint him as a Democrat attacking another one is frankly a huge distortion.
Arlen is a Democrat now. I mean he voted for stimulus when he was still a Republican, and he voted yes on the Healthcare Bill.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: tv on 05/17/10 at 11:49 am
They've been doing that since 1993! Bill Clinton, who exposed himself in more ways than one, let the Repubs bully him out of healthcare reform. He also pushed through NAFTA and welfare reform. All completely destructive to the health and morale of the American people. Al Gore published "Earth in the Balance" in 1992, and then kept his trap shut for eight years before picking Satan's bum-wiper Joe Lieberman as his running mate. Kerry was a staunch hawk and Wall Street acolyte who promised little different than what Dubya was giving us. I was just listening to a speech the Keynesian economist James Galbraith (son of John Kenneth) gave in October of 2008 talking about all the great stuff he hoped Obama was going to do to counter the damage Dubya had done. Galbraith said Obama would either be and FDR or a Herbert Hoover. Yeah, we were all hoping for FDR, but it's Hoover all over again.
::)
Not true, Clinton didn't want to push the Health Care Bill through Reconciliation I think on the US Senate side. Remember, when Obama pushed the Health Care Bill through the US Senate with reconciliation even US Senator Robert Byrd(D-WV) even criticized that move.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/17/10 at 12:16 pm
Sestak seems like a nice guy but he's too left wing for my tastes.
Oh, I agree with you there. I do not like much of Sestak's positions. But I do beleive that he is more "genuine" than Specter, and I do have to admire his impressive military career.
I'd rather do business with a genuine uber-liberal like Sestak than a snake-in-the-grass like Spectre.
Hopefully I will have to do neither and we'll have Mr. Toomey in the senate this fall. ;)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/17/10 at 2:58 pm
Oh, I agree with you there. I do not like much of Sestak's positions. But I do beleive that he is more "genuine" than Specter, and I do have to admire his impressive military career.
I'd rather do business with a genuine uber-liberal like Sestak than a snake-in-the-grass like Spectre.
Hopefully I will have to do neither and we'll have Mr. Toomey in the senate this fall. ;)
If Specter wins tomorrow I will be laughing my head off. If this happens I so look forward to Toomey getting beat. :)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/19/10 at 6:50 am
If Specter wins tomorrow I will be laughing my head off. If this happens I so look forward to Toomey getting beat. :)
ROTFALMFAOAPIMFP ;D
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/19/10 at 11:36 am
ROTFALMFAOAPIMFP ;D
Hey Lyricboy, if Sestak beats Toomey I expect you to be prepared to kiss some Democratic you know what. PA is shifting Democrat. ;)
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/19/10 at 11:50 am
This is why I voted for Specter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Toomey
Toomey is hard core Tea Party material. Anyone who voted for Sestak is doing exactly what Republicans wanted. Nice going PA Dems. :P
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/19/10 at 12:00 pm
This is why I voted for Specter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Toomey
Toomey is hard core Tea Party material. Anyone who voted for Sestak is doing exactly what Republicans wanted. Nice going PA Dems. :P
Actually, I think that the Repub party was hoping that Spectre would win the primary, because they saw him as an easier target in the general election than was Sestak.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/19/10 at 12:02 pm
Actually, I think that the Repub party was hoping that Spectre would win the primary, because they saw him as an easier target in the general election than was Sestak.
So you think it'll be close between Sestak and Toomey? BTW how did the Murtha special election turn out?
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: tv on 05/19/10 at 12:33 pm
Hey Lyricboy, if Sestak beats Toomey I expect you to be prepared to kiss some Democratic you know what. PA is shifting Democrat. ;)
No, PA is very moderate(independent-like politically) like Indiana or Arkansas. Yeah, PA has voted for a Democrat in the past 5 presidential elections but they did have a Republican Governor in the 1990's with Tom Ridge and a very conservative US Republican Senator in Rick Santorum from 1995-2006. Finally, PA was a swing state(i.e. purple state) in the 2004 presidential election with Kerry beating Bush 51%-49%.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 05/19/10 at 12:37 pm
No, PA is very moderate(independent-like politically) like Indiana or Arkansas. Yeah, PA has voted for a Democrat in the past 5 presidential elections but they did have a Republican Governor in the 1990's with Tom Ridge and a very conservative US Republican Senator in Rick Santorum from 1995-2006. Finally, PA was a swing state(i.e. purple state) in the 2004 presidential election with Kerry beating Bush 51%-49%.
Santorum lost to Bob Casey who is a moderate. With PA being a moderate state why is it now playing with extremes? You have Toomey who is a Right Wing Conservative and Sestak who is a Progressive. Doesn't this suggest a shift?
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/19/10 at 6:10 pm
Santorum lost to Bob Casey who is a moderate. With PA being a moderate state why is it now playing with extremes? You have Toomey who is a Right Wing Conservative and Sestak who is a Progressive. Doesn't this suggest a shift?
Sestak a "progressive"? ???
He's as left-wing as they come.
I do agree that Casey is not an ultra left-winger.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/19/10 at 9:13 pm
BTW how did the Murtha special election turn out?
Mark Critz (Democrat) beat out Tim Burns, the Republican.
But Critz campaigned as being anti-abortion, pro-gun, and anti-healthcare bill. So he would not appear to be a hard-core Obamaite.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: Don Carlos on 05/20/10 at 10:10 am
Mark Critz (Democrat) beat out Tim Burns, the Republican.
But Critz campaigned as being anti-abortion, pro-gun, and anti-healthcare bill. So he would not appear to be a hard-core Obamaite.
Nevertheless, the repubs poured a ton of $$$ into that race and lost.
Subject: Re: Democrats "Swift Boating" Democrats
Written By: LyricBoy on 05/20/10 at 12:35 pm
Nevertheless, the repubs poured a ton of $$$ into that race and lost.
Oh, absolutely, no doubt about that. Repubs spent $947k on TV ads, while the Dems spent $950k. Everybody put down the big kwan for this race. That said, in a district that is registered 2:1 Democrat, Burns got a reasonably good 43% of the vote, but no cee-gar of course.
I think Critz' main saving grace is he was not an incumbent.
Critz and Burns face off again this fall in the general electtion for the same seat (for the next Congress) and it will be interesting to see how Burns and Critz tweak their campaign strategies.