The Vatican is now under fire, for comparing recent sex scandal allegations, to anti Semitism.

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http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=122359&sectionid=3510212

I mean, wow, where does one begin, on this subject?

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The Vatican is now under fire, for comparing recent sex scandal allegations, to anti Semitism.

::)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=122359&sectionid=3510212

I mean, wow, where does one begin, on this subject?

::)


While I think the person who made the "Anti Semitism" statement should not have done that, at the same time there is indeed an element of similarity.

Note that I am a Roamin' Catholic myself, and I have been pretty hostile towards any Church authority figure who has been caught with his or her hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.  Those sumbiches need to be defrocked and I have no problem saying so.

BUT... For quite some time it indeed is acceptable in some circles to bash the institution and the concept of the Catholic church.  We see it here in this forum.  In my local newspaper, a letter was printed which basically accused all of the priests in Pennsylvania of being pedophiles, and the writer looked forward to the Catholic Church "being brought down to its knees".  A similar letter written about bringing "the corrupt Jews" to their knees (or fill in whatever other religion you'd like to add in there) would be very unlikely to be printed in a newspaper.  But it was about Catholics and so that's OK.

But in the end here is the truth... the Catholic church is the oldest church in Christianity, and with more than 1,140,000,000 members and growing, it is not going away.  We're the only religion to have its own sovereign country.  And for every A-hole pedophile priest or negligent bishop, there are plenty of self-sacrificing priests or nuns, and lay people, who have dedicated their lives to helping people.


Many democrats like to bash the Church for its unrelenting position against abortion.
Plenty of Repubs like to bash the church for its teachings about economic justice.
People who lead their personal lives with not a shred of morality or accountability to their families like to bash the Church for its teachings of how one should conduct their lives.


...But ultimately, at the root of things, what really pisses these people off is that the Church is not a political organization and does not change its fundamental teachings in order to curry popular favor.  The Church holds positions that are absolutely firm and counter to major tenets of both the Left and the Right, much to their frustration.

Criticism and prosecution of priests who violate the law, who harm children is absolutely correct and it needs to be done (although I have serious questions about the motivation of 60-year-old men who suddenly want to file multimillion $$$ lawsuits against priests for allegations that have not been made for 50 years).  But the continuing "feeding frenzy" of generalized church-bashing by a considerably large number of people in the United States is indeed a chapter from the same book that teaches antisemitism.

I would have to say, that guy who make the comment, should be fired.

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I mean, wow, the nerve of him, even making that statement!

::)

While I think the person who made the "Anti Semitism" statement should not have done that, at the same time there is indeed an element of similarity.

Note that I am a Roamin' Catholic myself, and I have been pretty hostile towards any Church authority figure who has been caught with his or her hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.  Those sumbiches need to be defrocked and I have no problem saying so.

BUT... For quite some time it indeed is acceptable in some circles to bash the institution and the concept of the Catholic church.  We see it here in this forum.  In my local newspaper, a letter was printed which basically accused all of the priests in Pennsylvania of being pedophiles, and the writer looked forward to the Catholic Church "being brought down to its knees".  A similar letter written about bringing "the corrupt Jews" to their knees (or fill in whatever other religion you'd like to add in there) would be very unlikely to be printed in a newspaper.  But it was about Catholics and so that's OK.

But in the end here is the truth... the Catholic church is the oldest church in Christianity, and with more than 1,140,000,000 members and growing, it is not going away.  We're the only religion to have its own sovereign country.  And for every A-hole pedophile priest or negligent bishop, there are plenty of self-sacrificing priests or nuns, and lay people, who have dedicated their lives to helping people.


Many democrats like to bash the Church for its unrelenting position against abortion.
Plenty of Repubs like to bash the church for its teachings about economic justice.
People who lead their personal lives with not a shred of morality or accountability to their families like to bash the Church for its teachings of how one should conduct their lives.


...But ultimately, at the root of things, what really pisses these people off is that the Church is not a political organization and does not change its fundamental teachings in order to curry popular favor.  The Church holds positions that are absolutely firm and counter to major tenets of both the Left and the Right, much to their frustration.

Criticism and prosecution of priests who violate the law, who harm children is absolutely correct and it needs to be done (although I have serious questions about the motivation of 60-year-old men who suddenly want to file multimillion $$$ lawsuits against priests for allegations that have not been made for 50 years).  But the continuing "feeding frenzy" of generalized church-bashing by a considerably large number of people in the United States is indeed a chapter from the same book that teaches antisemitism.


I agree with mmmmost of what you're saying here.  However, I really don't think the church has risen to the occasion when it comes to dealing with the pedophile priest.  Take our former Archbishop in Boston, Bernard Law.  Back in 2002 the story broke that the Archdiocese in Boston under Law's reign, five priests with peculiar persuasions were moved from parish to parish in lieu of dealing with allegations against them.  Yes, ecclesiastical politics and PR came into play, but Law did not do the RIGHT thing and more children were molested because he didn't want to make waves.  Cardinal Law's punishment?  Pope John Paul II made him an Archpriest at the Vatican.  That's not what I call dealing with it.  Furthermore, Fr. Geoghan, the biggest offender, was murdered in prison in 2003.  A lot of people who were mad at Geoghan called it justice, I could not in spite of how big a pervo Geoghan was.  Even a defrocked priest who had transgressed as severely as Fr. Geoghan could still be forgiven by the Big Guy if he was a serious penitent. 

I have no patience for anti-Semitism and I wish Jews and Gentiles alike would stop throwing that term around.  The Vatican needs to stop finger-pointing and look into its own back yard. 

Nonetheless, it is important to remember how many priests there are in the world-wide Catholic church versus how many are pedophiles.  Very few.  It might be a little higher than in the general population because men sometimes flee into the priesthood to bypass their sexual hangups, which is not to say a man would go through the rigors of divinity school and ordination just to avoid facing the fact that he's a pedophile, but it could be a motivating factor.
:(

Seems to me that part of the problem arises because the church is so hierarchical.  In the more loosely structured protestant denominations horny or pedophile pastors are dealt with at the local level and are fired and prosecuted.  There  is no hierarchy to hid in.

Seems to me that part of the problem arises because the church is so hierarchical.  In the more loosely structured protestant denominations horny or pedophile pastors are dealt with at the local level and are fired and prosecuted.  There  is no hierarchy to hid in.


Yes, and as they say, with great power comes great responsibility...and great accountability.  Since the Vatican exercises great central power, of course its critics -- including a great many Catholics -- are going to point their fingers right back at it and hold it accountable.  If the Vatican chooses to retain power and deny accountability, it could shake the faith of many more Catholics, which would be an awful shame. 

One thing that happened with the "pedophile priests" is their victims were confounded about whether they had even been victimized.  What is a child to say when his parents confess their sins to the same priest who fondled him?

I'd personally prefer to see all organized religion brought to its knees, but I guess that's just me.

Seems to me that part of the problem arises because the church is so hierarchical.  In the more loosely structured protestant denominations horny or pedophile pastors are dealt with at the local level and are fired and prosecuted.  There  is no hierarchy to hid in.


Speaking strictly as a Catholic from my neck of the woods, if me and my pals found out that the local priest was attempting to party with one of our kiddies, we'd take him out back for a good old fashioned ass kicking.  That white collar means nothing to us if a guy is a pervert.

Speaking strictly as a Catholic from my neck of the woods, if me and my pals found out that the local priest was attempting to party with one of our kiddies, we'd take him out back for a good old fashioned ass kicking.  That white collar means nothing to us if a guy is a pervert.


Email your bishop.  Maybe the pope will take your prescription under advisement.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/saint.gif

I wish that Catholocism would let priests marry, like their Orthodox counterparts.

While I think the person who made the "Anti Semitism" statement should not have done that, at the same time there is indeed an element of similarity.

Note that I am a Roamin' Catholic myself, and I have been pretty hostile towards any Church authority figure who has been caught with his or her hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.  Those sumbiches need to be defrocked and I have no problem saying so.

BUT... For quite some time it indeed is acceptable in some circles to bash the institution and the concept of the Catholic church.  We see it here in this forum.  In my local newspaper, a letter was printed which basically accused all of the priests in Pennsylvania of being pedophiles, and the writer looked forward to the Catholic Church "being brought down to its knees".  A similar letter written about bringing "the corrupt Jews" to their knees (or fill in whatever other religion you'd like to add in there) would be very unlikely to be printed in a newspaper.  But it was about Catholics and so that's OK.

But in the end here is the truth... the Catholic church is the oldest church in Christianity, and with more than 1,140,000,000 members and growing, it is not going away.  We're the only religion to have its own sovereign country.  And for every A-hole pedophile priest or negligent bishop, there are plenty of self-sacrificing priests or nuns, and lay people, who have dedicated their lives to helping people.


Many democrats like to bash the Church for its unrelenting position against abortion.
Plenty of Repubs like to bash the church for its teachings about economic justice.
People who lead their personal lives with not a shred of morality or accountability to their families like to bash the Church for its teachings of how one should conduct their lives.


...But ultimately, at the root of things, what really pisses these people off is that the Church is not a political organization and does not change its fundamental teachings in order to curry popular favor.  The Church holds positions that are absolutely firm and counter to major tenets of both the Left and the Right, much to their frustration.

Criticism and prosecution of priests who violate the law, who harm children is absolutely correct and it needs to be done (although I have serious questions about the motivation of 60-year-old men who suddenly want to file multimillion $$$ lawsuits against priests for allegations that have not been made for 50 years).  But the continuing "feeding frenzy" of generalized church-bashing by a considerably large number of people in the United States is indeed a chapter from the same book that teaches antisemitism.


I'd never take you for a Catholic.  Awesome. :D

I agree with what you said, although I still have issues with some of the Catholic teachings.  I'm a lapsed Catholic, but I do still have fond memories of going to Mass and listening to our beloved hippie priest.  He was cool.  I was toying with the idea of picking up my Catholic faith again, but like I said, issues with some of their teachings.


I wish that Catholocism would let priests marry, like their Orthodox counterparts.


Letting them marry won't solve shyt.  A pedophile is a pedophile, and even if they were allowed to marry, the pedophile priests would probably just molest their kids.

I'd never take you for a Catholic.  Awesome. :D

I agree with what you said, although I still have issues with some of the Catholic teachings.  I'm a lapsed Catholic, but I do still have fond memories of going to Mass and listening to our beloved hippie priest.  He was cool.  I was toying with the idea of picking up my Catholic faith again, but like I said, issues with some of their teachings.

Letting them marry won't solve shyt.  A pedophile is a pedophile, and even if they were allowed to marry, the pedophile priests would probably just molest their kids.


I agree.  Molestation is an abuse of power.  What has come out regarding Pope Benedict XVI's past is disappointing.  The church needs to adopt a zero tolerance position on sexual abuse by clerics.  You get caught messing with kids, you get defrocked.  Period.  No more of this shuffling naughty priests from parish to parish B.S.

While I think the person who made the "Anti Semitism" statement should not have done that, at the same time there is indeed an element of similarity.
Sorry, but that's bollocks.  The reaction to the way the Catholic church hierarchy has acted to cover up abuse is one thing and general anti-Catholic sentiment which may be comparable is another.  There would only be an element of similarity if the Jews actually *were* responsible for all the world's ills.

But if you think he's right.. why should he not have said it?


But in the end here is the truth... the Catholic church is the oldest church in Christianity, and with more than 1,140,000,000 members and growing, it is not going away.  We're the only religion to have its own sovereign country.  And for every A-hole pedophile priest or negligent bishop, there are plenty of self-sacrificing priests or nuns, and lay people, who have dedicated their lives to helping people.
The Catholic church is only the oldest because it traces its own roots to three hundred years before it started.  There was no "catholic church" as you'd understand it today before Constantine decided he'd better get these Christian types under his aegis.

And for every paedophile priest it's not just a negligent bishop covering up.  You can't simply make the assertion that every bishop who covered up and moved on an abusing priest without reporting them to the proper authorities was negligent, in effect to say that 100% of those in a position to make that decision were negligent.

This wasn't negligence, it was a policy of covering up to save face.  Which, of course, is what the Catholic church does best.  If the Church had behaved like the moral body it purports itself to be, there wouldn't have been any chance for lawsuits based on allegations of molestation that happened 50 years ago.

And as for giving a paedophile priest a swift ass-kicking.. no.  That stops him from moving somewhere else and molesting someone else exactly how?  Not to mention the difficulty in proving you've actually got the right person - there is a reason we have a judicial system, all that's required is for it not to be circumvented.



...But ultimately, at the root of things, what really pisses these people off is that the Church is not a political organization and does not change its fundamental teachings in order to curry popular favor.  The Church holds positions that are absolutely firm and counter to major tenets of both the Left and the Right, much to their frustration.
I can't speak for people over there, but what pisses me off most about the Catholic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with politics: it's that the Church is hypocritical in the extreme: claiming to be a (or even *the*) moral guardian while behaving in a completely immoral way.  It claims its morals are absolute and unchanging, when any student of history will see that's not the case.


As for Ratzinger's part in all this.. well, here's what I think

Letting them marry won't solve shyt.  A pedophile is a pedophile, and even if they were allowed to marry, the pedophile priests would probably just molest their kids.


Than should we get Chris Hanson to go to Rome?

http://sites.google.com/site/swoimages/_/rsrc/1271172720812/images/pedo%20pope%20thedw.jpg

I'll just leave this here.

http://sites.google.com/site/swoimages/_/rsrc/1271172720812/images/pedo%20pope%20thedw.jpg

I'll just leave this here.

LOL...  I love it..