I was reading a story in the paper today that there is a public community college in Michigan which has suspended a number of its students who turn out to be registered child sex offenders.  When they enrolled there was no prohibition of their attendance. Apparently some dude was registering for classes a few weeks ago, and for whatever reason mentioned to the administrator that he was a registered sex offender.  They refused to let him enroll, and then later suspended the other ones , once they did a records search for all 4200 of its students.  There is no allegation that the suspended students had performed any perversions on campus or off (other than their original convictions).

This is madness.

Now mind you I have no sympathy for sex offenders, and I support laws that lock them up for extended periods of time, and in some egregious and pathological cases, fully support surgical castration, etc for the worst of them.

But once your prison sentence and parole/probation are up it seems to me that all of these other restrictions (where you can live, what PUBLIC school you can attend, etc) strike me as unconstitutional, along the lines of either "double jeapordy" or "cruel and unusual punishment".  And in the end, I think that many of these restrictions will simply aggravate the situation with these people and possibly CAUSE them to offend again.

I don't have a problem with restrictions in terms of certain specialized professions (child care, psychiatry), or lifelong restrictions that are agreed to at sentencing time as part of a plea bargain.  But these after-sentence-is-up piled-on restrictions I think are wrong and ultimately illegal.

Any constutional scholars out there?  What say you? ???


............................
Added thought:  I have no problem with a PRIVATE school banning anybody they want on the basis of criminal record.  My beef is with a government entity doing this.

If you check out my post on this matter on Tenacious Tuxedos, you'll see what happened to a kid a grew up with who ended up spending 15 years in NH state prison.  He pleaded to 7 counts of aggravated rape on persons under age 13 in 1994.  NH state law provides involuntary commitment for sex offenders deemed dangerous and likely to re-offend.  My former classmate, Raymond Fournier, met the criteria.  The courts and the prosecution screwed up.  They didn't get the paperwork filed on time, so Fourner was set free.

Once you have paid your debt to society, you should be free to rejoin it.  In fact, I think it is a good idea for states to fund rehabilitation and reemerging programs for ex-cons to ensure as best they can a successful return of the ex-con to society.  

Barring a provision in the state of Michigan's constitution, I would say refusal to allow the ex-con to enroll in the state university system is unconstitutional.  I'm against such provisions that permanently disenfranchise any citizen convicted of a felony, but that's another story.  

It's also stupid thinking.  I emphasized on my Tenacious Tuxedos post on Raymond Fournier that if we treat sex offenders like pariahs and don't give them a shot to make a new life for themselves, then it's likely they're going to turn to crime, and that might include, god forbid, their old crimes.  
::)

I Googled Raymond Fournier.  Wow his "release" certainly caused quite a kerfuffle in New Hampshire.  Your buddy was a real player, I see.

I also found a web entry for a Raymond Fournier who is an expert in "back end mainframes" but I think that he is somebody else and its just a cruel coincidence.

The NH law that says that a judge can extend a sex perv's sentence by 5 years at a pop if he feels that the perv is likely to offend again... My thought is that if this law was not in effect at the time of conviction, then it should not be applicable.  On the other hand, if at the time of sentencing the convict is appraised that he either shapes up or he's never getting out, then OK I'd say that passes muster.


I'm against such provisions that permanently disenfranchise any citizen convicted of a felony, but that's another story. 


I am OK with laws that prevent felons from pursuing certain post-incarceration activities as long as they are not unreasonable (which I guess is the rub).  Felons convicted of fraud and swindling should be enjoined from entering licensed positions of trust, such as stock broker, etc.  Child sex preverts should be enjoined from working with children (teachers, child care, etc).  Politicians convicted of political corruption should be enjoined from serving in any public office.  That sort of thing.

But the hysteria we see regarding sex offenders (even though their crime is reprehensible) to me sounds like "mob rule" and completely in violation of the Constitution.  I wonder how many of these laws have made it all the way to the SCOTUS yet? ???

I just wish we'd reform the sex laws themselves.  Too many minors with nude pics of their underage girlfriends are being charged like adult sex offenders.  The idiocy of these laws is getting unbearable....

I just wish we'd reform the sex laws themselves.  Too many minors with nude pics of their underage girlfriends are being charged like adult sex offenders.  The idiocy of these laws is getting unbearable....



Agreed.  Simply having a nudie pic of your girlfriend, that she was OK with when it was snapped on the iPhone, should not be a crime.

However, if you start maliciously emailing it to all your buddies then a crime has been committed and this does need to be addressed.  I don't see this as being a "sexual predator" unless the picture-taking was forced, or the pic depicts some really perverted stuff.

Agreed.  Simply having a nudie pic of your girlfriend, that she was OK with when it was snapped on the iPhone, should not be a crime.

However, if you start maliciously emailing it to all your buddies then a crime has been committed and this does need to be addressed.  I don't see this as being a "sexual predator" unless the picture-taking was forced, or the pic depicts some really perverted stuff.


Well, even in the case of the guy sending the pics to his buddies, I think the crime should be no different from what an adult would be charged with for sending nude pics of an adult would be.

The thing is...  A minor should not be considered the same as a child sex offender, because the intent of sex laws is to prosecute pedophiles, not minors.  A minor that has sex with another minor (both minors being pubescent, of course) is not a pedophile.  Likewise, a minor looking at pics of minors is not a pedophile either.

The problem is that these laws don't delineate the complexities of a situation, because the lawmakers themselves are either too lazy or too embarassed to address these issues.

I Googled Raymond Fournier.  Wow his "release" certainly caused quite a kerfuffle in New Hampshire.  Your buddy was a real player, I see.

I also found a web entry for a Raymond Fournier who is an expert in "back end mainframes" but I think that he is somebody else and its just a cruel coincidence.

The NH law that says that a judge can extend a sex perv's sentence by 5 years at a pop if he feels that the perv is likely to offend again... My thought is that if this law was not in effect at the time of conviction, then it should not be applicable.  On the other hand, if at the time of sentencing the convict is appraised that he either shapes up or he's never getting out, then OK I'd say that passes muster.

I knew when we were kids there was a dark side to Ray and if it ever got out, there would be some bad trouble.  He could be scary when he was 14.  I don't mean like he was "evil" or anything, just from a deprived background with some serious rage issues.  Truth is, nobody gives one goddam about a guy like Ray until something terrible happens.  Interesting that I missed it way back when he got busted.  I wasn't living in the area anymore, but I used to drive through there regularly in the '90s.  I'd stop for coffee and gas, and check out the local papers.  Missed this one completely.  There are a bunch of Raymond Fourniers out there, most of 'em French Canadian.  

Anyway, I've got one childhood acquaintance on his way out, Raymond, and another on his way in.  The cat on his way in is named Zebadiah Kellogg-Roe.  There aren't too many of those around!  I knew Zeb because we went to Waldorf kindergarten together and my old man used to buy weed from his old man.  The Roes lived on a rundown commune a few towns over from us where Gene Roe ran a cider press, sold organic grains, pot and psychedelic drugs, and tuned pianos.  Zeb later did a stint at Bennington College when my brother was there.  My old man said, "Oh yeah, Gene Roe, I used to buy brown rice and acid from him!"  Always remembered that line.  Well the story of Zebadiah Kellogg-Roe involves him partying with a 12-year-old girl, then going to court and asking for the death penalty for it.  Well, they don't have the death penalty for statutory rape in NH, but Zeb's going away for so long that if he ever gets out he'll be too old to party with anybody, even himself!
:(

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/604429-196/woman-testifies-to-having-sex-at-12.html
http://www.ledgertranscript.com/newsblog/update-kellogg-roe-guilty-of-rape-defense-says-he-went-to-trial-to-be-crucified

I knew when we were kids there was a dark side to Ray and if it ever got out, there would be some bad trouble.  He could be scary when he was 14.  I don't mean like he was "evil" or anything, just from a deprived background with some serious rage issues.


I know what ya mean there, Max.

I knew a couple of dudes when I was a kid that pretty much fit that bill too.  One ended up getting convicted for a home invasion and rape of a young woman; the other was a gay dude who molested a mentally challenged kid at some sort of day camp.  In our school days, everybody pretty much knew that these guys had something wrong in their heads.

The rape dude was interesting.  Before he was convicted, my Dad (who stayed active in Scouts after LyricBoy was done) came home from a committee meeting and was incensed.  He said "You know what I just heard, LB?  That no-good John Doe was just named scoutmaster of the other scout troop over at the church! "  It seems that troop's committee did not know this guy's history of arrests and of being expelled from LB High School for, uh, "whipping it out" in study hall.  But once word got out to parents in that troop, they revolted and this cat was ejected before the next troop meeting could be held.

Then a year or so later came the rape conviction.

This is madness.


http://www.monstercloset.net/images/caution.jpg

Sorry.  Had to be done.

My first beef with the sex offender registry concept is that so many things have become "sex offences" (Take a leak in the back alley behind the bar at 3 in the morning?  Just get out of the shower?  Blue-haired little old lady is peeping through the crack in your window?  You're the sex offender!) that it's watered down the concept. 

I'm an old fart, so if the guy next door wants to abuse kids, I'll gladly kick his ass along with the rest of the lynch mob (it's why witch hunts are fun!), even if he's not a threat to me.  Problem is, odds are that his only offence was taking a leak in a back alley when a cop happened to be walking by at the wrong time.

How about a murderer's registry, an aggravated assault registry, or even just a burglar's registry?

The other problem I have with the concept is that a false accusation and the ensuing trial by media is a death sentence.  If I'm in public, and I see a kid fall down and injure himself, I'll look around for a female adult within visual range, I'll point to her and tell HER to call 911 and take care of the kid.  If there isn't, I will ignore it and walk away.

Rendering first aid to a minor in post-9/11 America, and risk the consequences of a paranoid helicopter parent asking "Where, on the doll, did the man touch you?  Did it hurt?"  Sorry, kid, sucks to be you.  Your parents were simultaneously too neglectful to prevent your injury, and yet collectively too paranoid to trust the 99.99999% of strangers who would have helped you. 

The only good thing about our paranoid culture is that kids are rarely permitted outdoors anymore, and the odds of an adult actually seeing a kid injuring itself are nil, so at least my hypothetical scenario will remain hypothetical. 

My first beef with the sex offender registry concept is that so many things have become "sex offences" (Take a leak in the back alley behind the bar at 3 in the morning?  Just get out of the shower?  Blue-haired little old lady is peeping through the crack in your window?  You're the sex offender!) that it's watered down the concept. 

I'm an old fart, so if the guy next door wants to abuse kids, I'll gladly kick his ass along with the rest of the lynch mob (it's why witch hunts are fun!), even if he's not a threat to me.  Problem is, odds are that his only offence was taking a leak in a back alley when a cop happened to be walking by at the wrong time.

How about a murderer's registry, an aggravated assault registry, or even just a burglar's registry?

The other problem I have with the concept is that a false accusation and the ensuing trial by media is a death sentence.  If I'm in public, and I see a kid fall down and injure himself, I'll look around for a female adult within visual range, I'll point to her and tell HER to call 911 and take care of the kid.  If there isn't, I will ignore it and walk away.

Rendering first aid to a minor in post-9/11 America, and risk the consequences of a paranoid helicopter parent asking "Where, on the doll, did the man touch you?  Did it hurt?"  Sorry, kid, sucks to be you.  Your parents were simultaneously too neglectful to prevent your injury, and yet collectively too paranoid to trust the 99.99999% of strangers who would have helped you. 

The only good thing about our paranoid culture is that kids are rarely permitted outdoors anymore, and the odds of an adult actually seeing a kid injuring itself are nil, so at least my hypothetical scenario will remain hypothetical. 


Sayyyyy....just what do you think you're doing hanging around here watching the kids play?  What are ya, some kinda pre-vert?  We jest better not ketch you 'round here agin, understand?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/nono.gif

http://www.monstercloset.net/images/caution.jpg

Sorry.  Had to be done.

Completely off-topic, but have you seen the Stick Figures In Peril flickr group?

From what I found, it appears that registered sex offenders are prohibited from entering ANY school property where minors attend.  Since minors could be attending a community college, it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to attend.  The school, once alerted that the student was a registered sex offender would have a legal obligation to keep him off campus.  Upon enrolling, however, they do not have to do a background check unless he would be an employee.  I'm not sure what their legal obligation would be on the others, though ???

From what I found, it appears that registered sex offenders are prohibited from entering ANY school property where minors attend.  Since minors could be attending a community college, it makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed to attend.  The school, once alerted that the student was a registered sex offender would have a legal obligation to keep him off campus.  Upon enrolling, however, they do not have to do a background check unless he would be an employee.  I'm not sure what their legal obligation would be on the others, though ???


Well, then the state should have to make accommodations: Hire a security guard follow the guy on campus!
8)

Completely off-topic, but have you seen the Stick Figures In Peril flickr group?


Yup... love it... but back on topic, I'd forgotten about Perry Bible Fellowship's two bits' worth on the topic:

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF215-Kitty_Photographer.jpg

Yup... love it... but back on topic, I'd forgotten about Perry Bible Fellowship's two bits' worth on the topic:

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF215-Kitty_Photographer.jpg


;D

You know what they say...it's funny 'cos it's true!

Walmart called the cops on a guy because he took a picture of his shirtless daughter.  How old was the daughter?  Three!  Guy didn't even see what was wrong.

"So my wife and my son and daughter were playing in the pool and I took a picture, what's the problem?"
"Oh, you're sick, buddy!  You're goin' away for everrrrr!
:o

When my sister worked at Ritz Camera (now out of business) the store policy mandated any picture featuring nude children was to be reported and an extra print was to be made for the BOSS (as evidence, of course).
::)