Outcry over Obama bowing to the Japanese Emperor

Here's the bow:

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091116/capt.photo_1258388640408-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=306&q=85&sig=obOLeSpTrFUKv2ZbiG7NRA--

Do you know what he did wrong?

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/miyagi.jpg

NO NO Obama-san!  ALWAYS LOOK EYE!!!

:D :D

At least he didn't barf on the dude!
8)

At least he didn't barf on the dude!
8)


That was my first thought. ;D

I don't see anything wrong with bowing to the guy.  It's a form of greeting in Japan.  People need to pull their heads out of their asses and learn about other cultures.

Clearly, Obama is weaksauce. His bow show timidness and fear. It's just a matter of time now before Japan turns on us and bombs Pearl Harbor all over again.

/lunaticfringerightwingmodeoff

Ant

That was my first thought. ;D

I don't see anything wrong with bowing to the guy.  It's a form of greeting in Japan.  People need to pull their heads out of their asses and learn about other cultures.


Well, that's why us Europeans had to stop bowing -- we're too dumb to bow without getting our heads stuck up our asses, you know, we can't figure out when to stop bending!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/buck.gif

Clearly, Obama is weaksauce. His bow show timidness and fear. It's just a matter of time now before Japan turns on us and bombs Pearl Harbor all over again.

/lunaticfringerightwingmodeoff

Ant


LOL  :D :D :D

Clearly, Obama is weaksauce. His bow show timidness and fear. It's just a matter of time now before Japan turns on us and bombs Pearl Harbor all over again.

/lunaticfringerightwingmodeoff

Ant


Don't worry, Americans have such large penis. Japanese penis, so small.

Well, that's why us Europeans had to stop bowing -- we're too dumb to bow without getting our heads stuck up our asses, you know, we can't figure out when to stop bending!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/buck.gif


http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy36/hixpixstix/head-up-ass.jpg


Don't worry, Americans have such RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALGE penis. Japanese penis, so small.


Fixed it for you. ;D

The same people crying about this are the same ones that defended GW kissing the Saudia Arabian king (you know, the head guy from the country that most of the 9/11 bombers came from).  More noise from people who know nothing.

My only problem is that he appears to have bowed lower than the Emporer did. (And that is a big deal in Japanese protocol)

No standing POTUS should be doing that, because that is a sign of subordination.  But doing a plain-Jane bow, I have no problem with whatsoever with that.

Back when I used to regularly deal with Japanese figures, I would bow (but never lower than the other guy), and I would always look 'em straight in the eye, so that it was clear that I was not conveying any idea of subservience.

He's still taller than the Emperor even after the bow.  Almost, anyway.

By the way, despite all of this, I'd rather be Obama having to live down bowing to the emperor, than Bush I having to live down blowing chunks in his lap.  ;D

I bet Bush I still gets a little sheepish whenever he thinks about that deal.  ;D

Beck is probally like...

"I knew it! Not only is Barack a secret Muslim, and Kenyan, but a secret Japanese, too!  Show us your birth certifcate!"

::)

My only problem is that he appears to have bowed lower than the Emporer did. (And that is a big deal in Japanese protocol)

No standing POTUS should be doing that, because that is a sign of subordination.  But doing a plain-Jane bow, I have no problem with whatsoever with that.

Back when I used to regularly deal with Japanese figures, I would bow (but never lower than the other guy), and I would always look 'em straight in the eye, so that it was clear that I was not conveying any idea of subservience.


It onry ancient custom, Obama-san; it not make difference in mattah at hand...
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/notworthy.gif

What are we, just a pack of dogs?

A de facto gesture of subservience is meaningless in foreign affairs when there is no subservience de jour.  While it is true debt is a sort of subservience, Obama was not on the scene when America started selling out to every Tom Dick and Harry so the a few super-rich bastards could light their cigars with hundred dollar bills.

As for the Foxtards, why should anyone pay any attention to their opinion?  We know what it is already.  Whatever Obama did, it was wrong.  What if Obama had NOT bowed to the emperor?  Imagine what Glenn Beck and Steve Douchebag say about him then!
::)

You know...  the more I think about it...  This is actually a great strategy for distracting the right wing.

As long as you do something that is of no consequence to piss off the right wingers, they'll waste so much time bitching about whatever the harmless gesture is that they'll lose sight of the real flaws in you.

People like Rush and Beck do a great job of making their side look less valid as opposition because of this.

Can anyone imagine a Republican president making a gesture of servile submission to a communist dictator responsible for the deaths of 70 million people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP_oOJiuvW4&feature=player_embedded

http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/17/attention-right-wing-idiots-nixon-bowed-to-chairman-mao/

Old Vulcan proverb: only Nixon could go to China. 

The same people crying about this are the same ones that defended GW kissing the Saudia Arabian king (you know, the head guy from the country that most of the 9/11 bombers came from).   More noise from people who know nothing.


Ewww.

I'd rather barf on an emporer than kiss a Saudi king.  8-P

Heck, I'd probably rather have an emporer barf on me than kiss a Saudi king.  ;D

I remember the barf!

;D

It's easy when you're Big in Japan!

It's easy when you're Big in Japan!




About 23 years ago I took a group of 25 American factory managers all through Japan.

We had this one guy who was 6' 4" and prolly 260 pounds, all muscle, and he was black.

He was the only black guy I saw during 3 weeks in Japan.  When we walked on the Ginza one weekend, just the presence of this guy (big, and black) just about caused all the pedestrians to stop and gawk at him, as he towered over everybody.  More than a couple of people stopped to ask him if he was a "big American football player".  ;D

About 23 years ago I took a group of 25 American factory managers all through Japan.

We had this one guy who was 6' 4" and prolly 260 pounds, all muscle, and he was black.

He was the only black guy I saw during 3 weeks in Japan.  When we walked on the Ginza one weekend, just the presence of this guy (big, and black) just about caused all the pedestrians to stop and gawk at him, as he towered over everybody.  More than a couple of people stopped to ask him if he was a "big American football player".  ;D


During WWII my father was sent to the Netherlands for a while.  He said there were people there who had never seen a black person in person.  He hinted that the ladies were quite, ummmmm, curious  ;), and went to great lengths to satisfy that curiosity, I often wonder if I have a brother of sister that I have never met.  ::)

During WWII my father was sent to the Netherlands for a while.  He said there were people there who had never seen a black person in person.  He hinted that the ladies were quite, ummmmm, curious  ;), and went to great lengths to satisfy that curiosity, I often wonder if I have a brother of sister that I have never met.  ::)


Who knows, maybe Henk could be a relative.  ;D

Who knows, maybe Henk could be a relative.   ;D


That would be soooooo cooooolllllll!  :)

During WWII my father was sent to the Netherlands for a while.  He said there were people there who had never seen a black person in person.  He hinted that the ladies were quite, ummmmm, curious  ;), and went to great lengths to satisfy that curiosity, I often wonder if I have a brother of sister that I have never met.  ::)


My dad (a tall white guy) was stationed in England for a while.  The Brits use to say that there were three things wrong with the Yanks.  They were over paid, over sexed and over here.  I guess he got tumbled a bit too.

My dad (a tall white guy) was stationed in England for a while.  The Brits use to say that there were three things wrong with the Yanks.  They were over paid, over sexed and over here.  I guess he got tumbled a bit too.


;D

I don't know anything about bow customs and all, I don't see a big deal.  This is exactly the kind of thing that Rush would make a big deal about. 

During WWII my father was sent to the Netherlands for a while.  He said there were people there who had never seen a black person in person.  He hinted that the ladies were quite, ummmmm, curious  ;), and went to great lengths to satisfy that curiosity, I often wonder if I have a brother of sister that I have never met.  ::)


Dutch luck, I guess!

Dutch luck, I guess!


More like Dutch Treat

I don't see anything wrong with bowing to the guy.  It's a form of greeting in Japan.  People need to pull their heads out of their asses and learn about other cultures.


Well, for one, bowing and shaking hands is a huge fax paus.  You do either one or the other.  And when greeting Westerners, Japanese almost universally shake hands (unless they are germophobic).

And there is a lot of ritual in a bow.  When a head of state meets the Emperor, the bows are to an equal level (slight movement forward and down, about the amount that the Emperor does in the picture).  For an elected head of state bowing slightly more is allowable (because he is an Emperor, and some still consider him a God).  But the degree that President Obama went down was greatly excessive.  It was along the level of saying "I am subservient to you", or "I am your subject".  Not quite a kowtow, but as far as a Westerner would go without getting on their knees.

To me, it mostly shows that his advisors did a piss-poor job of coaching him how to greet the Emperor.  Either that, or he did not pay any attention to them.

More like Dutch Treat


Heh-heh!
;)

Well, for one, bowing and shaking hands is a huge fax paus.  You do either one or the other.  And when greeting Westerners, Japanese almost universally shake hands (unless they are germophobic).

And there is a lot of ritual in a bow.  When a head of state meets the Emperor, the bows are to an equal level (slight movement forward and down, about the amount that the Emperor does in the picture).  For an elected head of state bowing slightly more is allowable (because he is an Emperor, and some still consider him a God).  But the degree that President Obama went down was greatly excessive.  It was along the level of saying "I am subservient to you", or "I am your subject".  Not quite a kowtow, but as far as a Westerner would go without getting on their knees.

To me, it mostly shows that his advisors did a piss-poor job of coaching him how to greet the Emperor.  Either that, or he did not pay any attention to them.


I've read several accounts from people raised in Japan that the old rules of how much to bow are largely ignored and they saw nothing unusual about it. Almost all commentary about it is strictly from conservative commentators that probably have no direct experience with bowing in Japan at all.

It's still more respectful to their culture than Cheney was when he visited (which was no bow at all). 

To me, it mostly shows that his advisors did a piss-poor job of coaching him how to greet the Emperor.  Either that, or he did not pay any attention to them.

Or.. on meeting the chap, he found he had a lot more respect for him than he thought?

A Japanese karate instructor once told me (well, the whole dojo) that while the etiquette of bowing had largely gone from Japanese society, it was rigorously maintained in the dojo, but simpler - you bowed lower to your sensei, but no fine gradations in rank within the teachers and the taught (which was bollocks as far as the Brit instructors went: their bows went so low to this chap that it must have taken all their flexibility training to stand back up again.. but he did inspire & deserve, IMO, that kind of respect).

Or.. on meeting the chap, he found he had a lot more respect for him than he thought?

A Japanese karate instructor once told me (well, the whole dojo) that while the etiquette of bowing had largely gone from Japanese society, it was rigorously maintained in the dojo, but simpler - you bowed lower to your sensei, but no fine gradations in rank within the teachers and the taught (which was bollocks as far as the Brit instructors went: their bows went so low to this chap that it must have taken all their flexibility training to stand back up again.. but he did inspire & deserve, IMO, that kind of respect).




Look EYE!  ALWAYS look EYE!!!

More like Dutch Treat


That's better than a Dutch Runner...  ;D

That's better than a Dutch Runner...   ;D


is that like a Dutch Rudder?

is that like a Dutch Rudder?


Yes they appear to both be the same thing with similar names.  :P

I've read several accounts from people raised in Japan that the old rules of how much to bow are largely ignored and they saw nothing unusual about it. Almost all commentary about it is strictly from conservative commentators that probably have no direct experience with bowing in Japan at all.

It's still more respectful to their culture than Cheney was when he visited (which was no bow at all). 


Well, I lived over there for over a year.  And they actually have greeters in most stores, who's entire job is to give a deep bow to everybody that comes in.

Most of the "old rules" are pretty much gone.  ANd they were elaborate.  It went into how deep you were supposed to bow, depending on the other person's rank and your own.  And how to do it, how long to hold it, who initiated the bow, and the like.

And they actually have greeters in most stores, who's entire job is to give a deep bow to everybody that comes in.
It's behaviour like that which devalues the tradition, IMO: once you start giving deep bow respect to people just because they happen to have gone into your shop, it would certainly make me start thinking "well, what's the point?"

Well, I lived over there for over a year.  And they actually have greeters in most stores, who's entire job is to give a deep bow to everybody that comes in.

Most of the "old rules" are pretty much gone.  ANd they were elaborate.  It went into how deep you were supposed to bow, depending on the other person's rank and your own.  And how to do it, how long to hold it, who initiated the bow, and the like.


It's like a handshake over here.  You can judge people by how they shake hands (few do), and there are various articles on how to shake hands with who to indicate what), but mostly, we just ignore them.  I think I remember analyses on how such-and-such politician shook hands with such-and-such foreign leader, but nobody cared. 

Right now, they're just trying to "get" Obama no matter how desperate the measure!
::)

Right now, they're just trying to "get" Obama no matter how desperate the measure!
::)


Only if they have nothing else of value to do at the moment.

Personally, I still think it is simply a case of his advisors dropping the ball.  And from what I have seen of his Protocol Staff (IE the crashers), they seem to have some serious issues.  The President should have been fully briefed before he even left the country as to how he should expect to be greeted, and his response.

After all, we have over 60 years of instances of the President meeting the Emperor of Japan.  How hard would it have been for his protocol advisor to do 20 minutes of research, and let his Chief know "Sir, this is how the greetings are traditionally given"?

I do not blame the President here for not knowing, I blame his advisors for not letting him know.  And while it is possible that they did do the research and the President simply did blew them off, I doubt that very much myself.

Maybe it was Obama's way of saying, I can bow real low to you 'coz it don't matter.  Sixty-five years ago we nuked you punks 'till you glowed in the dark, and we could do the same sh*t to you a hundred times over tomorrow.  When the rubber hits the road, we got the power, and you don't got dick.  So think about that sh*t while I bow to your Japanese ass!

:-\\

I highly doubt the Japanese are making as much of a deal about this as Americans with nothing else to do that analyze Obama's every move.  They're just happy it's not Bush.  I thought Obama's bow was fine.  It was sincere for someone who's pretty new to the Presidency. 

I highly doubt the Japanese are making as much of a deal about this as Americans with nothing else to do that analyze Obama's every move.  They're just happy it's not Bush.  I thought Obama's bow was fine.  It was sincere for someone who's pretty new to the Presidency. 


And in the final analysis, who gives a flying F?

And in the final analysis, who gives a flying F?


Exactly.