Apparently, there is now a ban on having one of my favorite books, and a classic one, too. To Kill A Mockingbird, from local Toronto public schools.

I wonder, what other books, could theortically be banned, next?

::)

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/05/11302316-sun.html

Apparently, there is now a ban on having one of my favorite books, and a classic one, too. To Kill A Mockingbird, from local Toronto public schools.

I wonder, what other books, could theortically be banned, next?

::)

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/05/11302316-sun.html


Well, it isn't banned yet.
The school board has received a complaint, and "If the complaint proceeds under the board's policy for learning resource complaints, a review committee would issue a written report recommending whether the book is appropriate."

So as of right now it is still on the curriculum.

I see no problem with the book. Why get rid of books in order to be politically correct, as the article says? It is a materpiece that provokes thought and gives a view of the history that people had to endure.

Well, it isn't banned yet.
The school board has received a complaint, and "If the complaint proceeds under the board's policy for learning resource complaints, a review committee would issue a written report recommending whether the book is appropriate."

So as of right now it is still on the curriculum.

I see no problem with the book. Why get rid of books in order to be politically correct, as the article says? It is a materpiece that provokes thought and gives a view of the history that people had to endure.


Good point, especially they are also avialable at book stores, and libraries, too.

Oh no, not all this bullshirt again!
::)

Why don't the take TKAM and Tom Sawyer and replace all the "n*gg*rs" with "person of color."  Yeah, that'll really help the students understand historical context.  Real edjama-f**kin'- cational!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/iamwithstupid.gif

Oh no, not all this bullshirt again!
::)

Why don't the take TKAM and Tom Sawyer and replace all the "n*gg*rs" with "person of color."  Yeah, that'll really help the students understand historical context.  Real edjama-f**kin'- cational!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/iamwithstupid.gif


I agree, it's kind of sucks, that this is happening, all over again.  ::)  I wonder what Atticus Finch, would have though about this, happening.

Two years ago when I was in 9th grade, we had to read that, and it was one of the only books that I actually liked all year. And I'm not a reader. It shouldn't be banned, it may have racism in it, but it's true to the time and setting in which it took place. Racism is a terrible thing, but this wasn't a racist book.

Some people can't take a book in it's historical context so they try and ban it.  P.C. is appropriate in some context but not when you're dealing with an era that had such things as racism, slavery, excessive drinking and other things.  You can't portray history if you can't handle the truth about it.

Some people can't take a book in it's historical context so they try and ban it.  P.C. is appropriate in some context but not when you're dealing with an era that had such things as racism, slavery, excessive drinking and other things.  You can't portray history if you can't handle the truth about it.


That's right. History should never be sanitised....it happened and should be studied in order to learn some lessons.

The Toronto Sun is a tabloid.  I wouldn't exactly use it as a valid source for news.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Sun

Sometimes the word n*gg*r is needed and no other will do.  This ugliness is the white man's legacy and he's a coward all over again if he refuses to face its prevalence in American history.

Sometimes the word n*gg*r is needed and no other will do.  This ugliness is the white man's European's legacy and he's a coward all over again if he refuses to face its prevalence in American history.

Fixed.  Given modern racial descriptors, white and Hispanic are different races, but both engaged in the slave trade and in subsequent racist policies.

....... both engaged in the slave trade and in subsequent racist policies.



Who didn't?

Negative isms are something that are universal.  Educating people to the uses of them by the power structure would go a long way towards eradicating them. 

Some people can't take a book in it's historical context so they try and ban it.  P.C. is appropriate in some context but not when you're dealing with an era that had such things as racism, slavery, excessive drinking and other things.  You can't portray history if you can't handle the truth about it.


Absolutely!!!

History can not be whitewashed (sorry for using, the word), because it's too horrible, of an event to happen.

History can not be whitewashed (sorry for using, the word),


That's mighty white of you  ::)

You can't portray history if you can't handle the truth about it.

You want the truth?  You can't handle the truth </Nicholson>

But seriously, we (as a species, that is) are very good at forgetting nasty truths: that's why history keeps repeating itself.  Those who try and cover up the nastiness of history are the ones most likely to enable the nastiness to happen again

Shakespeare Books are/were banned at one time. During the Cromwell years of England, there was no plays done by Shakespeare and today they are questioned for their strong innuendos. But "Merchant of Venice" has many Anti-Semitisms in it.

I won't be surprised that "Gone With the Wind" is still banned because of Scarlett's reaction toward the blacks in the book and the word 'damn' mentioned in the end.

Hey, let's have a book-burning rather than read a book near an open fire...we throw books in the fire. Oh sheesh...that means The Bible is one of those books too...sheesh! :P    

Shakespeare Books are/were banned at one time. During the Cromwell years of England, there was no plays done by Shakespeare and today they are questioned for their strong innuendos. But "Twelfth Night" has many Anti-Semitisms in it.
"Twelfth Night"?  You want to try the Merchant of Venice ;) 

Cromwell didn't like anything that even suggested that people might have a good time - he was a strange bloke.


Hey, let's have a book-burning rather than read a book near an open fire...we throw books in the fire. Oh sheesh...that means The Bible is one of those books too...sheesh! :P   

Well, the bible does have more sex, violence, bigotry and intolerance than almost every other book ever published. A candidate for burning, if ever there was one.  And while you're at it, stick the Koran on, just so as not to show any kind of favouritism.

Who didn't?

Negative isms are something that are universal.  Educating people to the uses of them by the power structure would go a long way towards eradicating them. 


No argument here.  It was actually Arabs who started the African slave trade.

That's mighty white of you  ::)


Karamel, no questions asked.

No argument here.  It was actually Arabs who started the African slave trade.


I began well before that, and was, and continues to be, pretty universal.  I skunk by any other name still stinks.

I began well before that, and was, and continues to be, pretty universal.  I skunk by any other name still stinks.


If we're specifically talking about the spread of the African Slave Trade beyond Africa itself, it did begin with Arabs.

Now, slavery as an institution is as old as prostitution.

If we're specifically talking about the spread of the African Slave Trade beyond Africa itself, it did begin with Arabs.

Now, slavery as an institution is as old as prostitution.


Well, it's like saying the Norse peoples "discovered" North America before Columbus.  True, but so what? 

The fact that Arabs were enslaving Africans before Western Europeans does not speak to the atrocities of the trans-Atlantic slave trade for a mass agricultural labor force. 

But we digress...

Why don't the take TKAM and Tom Sawyer and replace all the "n*gg*rs" with "person of color."  Yeah, that'll really help the students understand historical context.  Real edjama-f**kin'- cational!


"But Teacher, I don't see the problem!  I mean, they treated Jim with respect, everyone even went out of their way to call him a Person of Color, obviously there was no racism, not even in the deep South!"

I don't care for the word.  But sometimes the word has to be used.  Used right, it still cuts deep - cue Lenny Bruce's routine on the word.

Well, it's like saying the Norse peoples "discovered" North America before Columbus.  True, but so what?  

The fact that Arabs were enslaving Africans before Western Europeans does not speak to the atrocities of the trans-Atlantic slave trade for a mass agricultural labor force.  

But we digress...


But had that trade never been established by Arabs, the likelihood of Europeans discovering this lucrative trade would have been considerably lower.

Then again, I guess you could also point out how if these African tribes weren't fighting and enslaving each other to begin with, then no trade would have occurred in the first place.

But had that trade never been established by Arabs, the likelihood of Europeans discovering this lucrative trade would have been considerably lower.

Then again, I guess you could also point out how if these African tribes weren't fighting and enslaving each other to begin with, then no trade would have occurred in the first place.


Much more complicated than can be answered here. The nature of slavery in Europe, Africa, and United States was very different.  Of course in Europe and Africa they weren't so hypocritical that they would espouse the lofty ideal that "all men are created equal",  then go on to legislate the definition of who counts as "men"

Apparently, there is now a ban on having one of my favorite books, and a classic one, too. To Kill A Mockingbird, from local Toronto public schools.

I wonder, what other books, could theortically be banned, next?

::)

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/05/11302316-sun.html


There's been a request to ban it. It hasn't been banned yet and probably won't be. Although I have a few suggestions for required reading in Canadian high schools myself (like perhaps introducing the students to some of the great Canadian works of literature).

There's been a request to ban it. It hasn't been banned yet and probably won't be. Although I have a few suggestions for required reading in Canadian high schools myself (like perhaps introducing the students to some of the great Canadian works of literature).


Robertson Davies, Margaret Atwood, and Farley Mowat for start.

Much more complicated than can be answered here. The nature of slavery in Europe, Africa, and United States was very different.  Of course in Europe and Africa they weren't so hypocritical that they would espouse the lofty ideal that "all men are created equal",  then go on to legislate the definition of who counts as "men"


No doubt...  Also, slavery in the New World was hereditary, quite unlike many other forms of slavery.

No doubt...  Also, slavery in the New World was hereditary, quite unlike many other forms of slavery.


There's the rub.  The child "followed the condition of the mother" making rape a profitable part of the owners business plan.

Robertson Davies, Margaret Atwood, and Farley Mowat for start.


Thank you! Especially Davies ( ;)).

And not only is Atwwod the powerhouse of CanLit, she is also the expert, having published her analysis, Survival, on it in 1972. Literature is the soul of every nation.   

"But Teacher, I don't see the problem!  I mean, they treated Jim with respect, everyone even went out of their way to call him a Person of Color, obviously there was no racism, not even in the deep South!"

I don't care for the word.  But sometimes the word has to be used.  Used right, it still cuts deep - cue Lenny Bruce's routine on the word.


Damn straight.  Lenny nailed it!

Ironically, Jim had it better than the so-called "field n*gg*rs," and the "Jims" of the antebellum South had it better than most poor whites...BUT, Jim was still just "Miss Watson's big n*gg*r."

::)

But had that trade never been established by Arabs, the likelihood of Europeans discovering this lucrative trade would have been considerably lower.

Then again, I guess you could also point out how if these African tribes weren't fighting and enslaving each other to begin with, then no trade would have occurred in the first place.


Even if that were true--and I don't think it is--it would STILL do nothing to mitigate the aforementioned atrocities by European-American slave traders and slave owners.

Even if that were true--and I don't think it is--it would STILL do nothing to mitigate the aforementioned atrocities by European-American slave traders and slave owners.



I'm still not sure where you're getting that I'm saying it would mitigate it....

All I'm saying is that slavery on the scale that was seen in the New World was only possible with multiple guilty parties involved -- European and otherwise.

I'm still not sure where you're getting that I'm saying it would mitigate it....

All I'm saying is that slavery on the scale that was seen in the New World was only possible with multiple guilty parties involved -- European and otherwise.



That is pretty much true of all atrocities, but, that fact should never be used to explain or diminish the the culpability of either party.  The argument that the slaves brought from Africa we sold to Europe and America by Africans does not diminish the the responsibility of the latter, as if because the Africans were brought into slavery by other Africans somehow should make it more palatable.  It is also true that the American form of slavery was much more insidious than the form of slavery practiced by Europeans and Africans. 

That is pretty much true of all atrocities, but, that fact should never be used to explain or diminish the the culpability of either party.  The argument that the slaves brought from Africa we sold to Europe and America by Africans does not diminish the the responsibility of the latter, as if because the Africans were brought into slavery by other Africans somehow should make it more palatable.  It is also true that the American form of slavery was much more insidious than the form of slavery practiced by Europeans and Africans.   


I'm assuming you meant that the form of slavery practiced in the New World was worse than that of the Old World.  I would agree that hereditary slavery is worse.

And again, I'm not saying that the involvement of other parties makes it any less worse to have engaged in.  I just believe that the blame shouldn't always be directed at Europeans.

You rarely hear people denounce Arabs for engaging in slavery, for example.

I'm assuming you meant that the form of slavery practiced in the New World was worse than that of the Old World.  I would agree that hereditary slavery is worse.

And again, I'm not saying that the involvement of other parties makes it any less worse to have engaged in.  I just believe that the blame shouldn't always be directed at Europeans.

You rarely hear people denounce Arabs for engaging in slavery, for example.


I hear people denounce Arabs for slavery and just about everything else under the sun.  Though it is illegal, slavery and indentured servitude still goes on in underground communities here in the U.S.

I hear people denounce Arabs for slavery and just about everything else under the sun.  Though it is illegal, slavery and indentured servitude still goes on in underground communities here in the U.S.




Sex slaves are definitely still an issue here and in a lot of the world in general.

As far as indentured servitude goes though...  they call that credit these days....  ;)

Osmund Saddler, Mac?
Hannibal Lecter, Max?

When did that happen?

Osmund Saddler, Mac?
Hannibal Lecter, Max?

When did that happen?


For me, it began with Las Plagas...  ;)

Osmund Saddler, Mac?
Hannibal Lecter, Max?

When did that happen?


You need to visit some other areas of the board philbo - there's a thread or two in PPP/WOW that might explain things

You need to visit some other areas of the board philbo - there's a thread or two in PPP/WOW that might explain things

Nah... they expect people to be nice in other areas of the board ;)

Nah... they expect people to be nice in other areas of the board ;)




You should've been a member of the smite club