Check out the following story:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD9ALBDM80

It seems that indeed, various legislators are advocating allowing illegals into the program (in stealth form, of course, by voting down requirements to prove citizenship).

My advice to the President would be to make this issue go away, or else Joe Wilson will be seen as a prophet instead of a pariah.

Check out the following story:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD9ALBDM80

It seems that indeed, various legislators are advocating allowing illegals into the program (in stealth form, of course, by voting down requirements to prove citizenship).

My advice to the President would be to make this issue go away, or else Joe Wilson will be seen as a prophet instead of a pariah.


The problem with the citizenship challenges is that they always end up ensuring that the poor are denied.  Plus I thought the conservatives would be opposed to anything that basically required people to travel with citizenship papers (ie. National ID).  Maybe that was before they realized it could be used as a cudgel against the poor.

The problem with the citizenship challenges is that they always end up ensuring that the poor are denied.  Plus I thought the conservatives would be opposed to anything that basically required people to travel with citizenship papers (ie. National ID).  Maybe that was before they realized it could be used as a cudgel against the poor.


That is the problem with making an assumption.

Actually, I support the idea of a "National ID".  And from a debate in here a few years ago, I think most other "Conservatives" iin this board agreed.  It was the "Liberals" that objected, stating it was fascism in action.  Not to mention that not only does every Citizen and Legal Resident already have a "National ID" (Social Security Card), a lot of other's also have them (in my case, both a Military ID and a VA card).

In fact, with all of the computerization we have today, I would love to see an optional National ID.  Make one that incorporates many different forms of ID, such as drivers license, passport card (already issued to people for visits to Canada and Mexico), Social Security Card, Military ID, medicare ID, food stamp ID, and multiple others.  The cards can all be the same, and with a smart chip or bar code, it can then scanned and then a database would show the appropriate information.

And yes, the information can be segmented.  After all, a cop writing a person a ticket would have no need to know that they are getting foodstamps and are a BATF licensed gun dealer.

The modern military ID is very much like this.  I can scan it at the chow hall to authorize my meal.  I put it in a slot on my computer, and it logs me onto my account.  When I enter or leave base, it is scanned again so they have a record of when I entered or left, and who was with me (this is not normal, but procedure where I am currently at).  And many gates on base also have smart card readers, which only open if an authorized card is used.

And I think that the situation should simply be solved along the lines of Prop 187 that was passed in California.  When somebody applies for medical care, it is not to be refused, no matter what.  But information is then collected, which will be turned over to the INS and other officials.  If the person is not a legal resident, they then should be collected up and deported.  Giving medical care should be the first priority.  And afterwards, then the person can be given the boot back to where they belong.

Nobody is denied care, and the illegal immigrants are dealt with. 

That is the problem with making an assumption.

Actually, I support the idea of a "National ID".  And from a debate in here a few years ago, I think most other "Conservatives" iin this board agreed.  It was the "Liberals" that objected, stating it was fascism in action.  Not to mention that not only does every Citizen and Legal Resident already have a "National ID" (Social Security Card), a lot of other's also have them (in my case, both a Military ID and a VA card).




sorry, I must be thinking of the conservatives from the Clinton era, back when the real radical right would drive around without license plates and protest anything that can be used to track them.  I guess 8 years of Bush changed that.

The problem with the citizenship challenges is that they always end up ensuring that the poor are denied.  Plus I thought the conservatives would be opposed to anything that basically required people to travel with citizenship papers (ie. National ID).  Maybe that was before they realized it could be used as a cudgel against the poor.


Karma +1.  Absolutely. 

No national ID card.

Furthermore, when they say "illegal immigrants," they mean Latinos.

::)

Karma +1.  Absolutely. 

No national ID card.

Furthermore, when they say "illegal immigrants," they mean Latinos.

::)


"They" in this case includes the current President of the United States, who could not have been more emphatic during his speech that illegals will not be granted access to the system.

With the "Wilson incident" making this position/statement crystal clear, Obama has no choice but to make good on his statement.

Sort of a "read my lips" situation...

The problem with the citizenship challenges is that they always end up ensuring that the poor are denied.  Plus I thought the conservatives would be opposed to anything that basically required people to travel with citizenship papers (ie. National ID).  Maybe that was before they realized it could be used as a cudgel against the poor.


All a red herring.  Life is filled with situations where you have to provide documentation.  Cops pull you over for a traffic stop... you have to show a valid license and (in some states) proof of insurance.  Come across the border?  Produce a passport.  Be a teacher? Get a background check.  Drive a truck? Produce a CDL.

This business that "the poor are aleays denied" is really just the opponents of the rule of law (as regards legal entry into the USA) way of saying "to hell with the rule of law". It is the same thing with people who want to prevent ID checks ar the polls.  It is supremely easy to get an identification card in every state in the United States, but the anti-ID forces seem to thnk that the poor are so inept or stupid that they cannot remember to get an ID until it is too late to vote.

In the end it is all about looking the other way when the fraudsters want to vote for your candidates.  Anybody who feels otherwise, of course, is then branded a right-winger, racist, or poor-hater.

There will always be loopholes.  It was a loophole that put bush in the White House.  Hey, have we finally stopped blaming the Clinton Administration?

Furthermore, when they say "illegal immigrants," they mean Latinos.

::)


Absolutely. 

All a red herring.  Life is filled with situations where you have to provide documentation.  Cops pull you over for a traffic stop... you have to show a valid license and (in some states) proof of insurance.  Come across the border?  Produce a passport.  Be a teacher? Get a background check.  Drive a truck? Produce a CDL.

This business that "the poor are aleays denied" is really just the opponents of the rule of law (as regards legal entry into the USA) way of saying "to hell with the rule of law". It is the same thing with people who want to prevent ID checks ar the polls.  It is supremely easy to get an identification card in every state in the United States, but the anti-ID forces seem to thnk that the poor are so inept or stupid that they cannot remember to get an ID until it is too late to vote.

In the end it is all about looking the other way when the fraudsters want to vote for your candidates.  Anybody who feels otherwise, of course, is then branded a right-winger, racist, or poor-hater.


sorry, I don't care how "secure" they make it, it's still going to get circumvented.  It's still possible to get fake IDs, it's still possible to get a fake SSN number.  There simply will be no measure strong enough where someone isn't going to come along and scream that Obama wants all the illegals to have health care access.

I'm one of these ACLU-type whackos who think the pigs already have too much power over citizens. 

Furthermore, the people I saw saying to hell with the rule of law today were a bunch of sheepish goons hollering and waving signs at the fascist rally in Washington DC today.  Of course, what they meant was "I got mine so skareeeew you!"  They want "freedom" for them and a nightstick across the skull for anybody they don't like, which probably includes YOU!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/cussing.gif

I'm one of these ACLU-type whackos who think the pigs already have too much power over citizens. 

Furthermore, the people I saw saying to hell with the rule of law today were a bunch of sheepish goons hollering and waving signs at the fascist rally in Washington DC today.  Of course, what they meant was "I got mine so skareeeew you!"  They want "freedom" for them and a nightstick across the skull for anybody they don't like, which probably includes YOU!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/cussing.gif


Big Ditto

Just want to point out that a Social Security card is not, and never has been a valid ID for any purpose other than Social Security.  It is written into the SS act.

What I've read of S.A.V.E. makes sense to me.  I've always been in favor of a National ID as well.

sorry, I must be thinking of the conservatives from the Clinton era, back when the real radical right would drive around without license plates and protest anything that can be used to track them.  I guess 8 years of Bush changed that.


Those are not "Conservatives", those are the nutcase loony tunes.  I no more consider them to be Conservatives then I do those that promote enforcing Veganism in schools are Liberals.

I simply aknowledge the nutcase fringe as that, the nutcase fringe.  And I would never try to claim they were the mainstream.


Furthermore, when they say "illegal immigrants," they mean Latinos.


Oh yes, get rid of all those Latinos.


I'm one of these ACLU-type whackos who think the pigs already have too much power over citizens. 


Max, do you have a passport?  Do you have a Social Security card?  Have you ever had a Short Wave, Aviation, or Ships license?  Have you ever served in the Military?  Have you ever been a licensed gun dealer?Or worked for the DOD, BATF, FBI, or any other Federal Agency?  Have you ever registered for the draft?  Are you a convicted Felon?

Then you already have a "National ID".


Just want to point out that a Social Security card is not, and never has been a valid ID for any purpose other than Social Security.  It is written into the SS act.


That is true.  Yet it is also listed on the Form I-9, that everybody fills out before they can be legally hired in this country.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

Darn it. I dunno, I'm drunk on scotch and slobbering on my wifebeater T-shirt. WTF do you want from me, a Socratic exercise in reason?  I don't care where yoou're born, you is just like me DNA wise, and you are entitled to whatever health care you need, and I don't care how many Mushrooooooms go broke 'cuz of it.  Health care is your right as a human bean!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

Oh, man, I really was blotto last night!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/puke.gif

Oh well, at least I was home and not behind the wheel!

Darn it. I dunno, I'm drunk on scotch and slobbering on my wifebeater T-shirt. WTF do you want from me, a Socratic exercise in reason?  I don't care where yoou're born, you is just like me DNA wise, and you are entitled to whatever health care you need, and I don't care how many Mushrooooooms go broke 'cuiz of it.  Health care is your right as a human bean!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif




http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/wav.gif


It goes to humanity.  It goes to mans inhumanity to man.