And making things affordable for everyone, in the States?

::)

Depends on who you ask.  There are people who are getting screwed all the time by insurance companies who are against reform.  I don't know why.  Mis-education, mis-information, fear engendered by anti-Obama factions of a "socialist" revolution, sheer stupidity.

And making things affordable for everyone, in the States?

::)


Depends on how you define "affordable".

Last time I looked, "affordable" meant spending $1 trillion more over the next 10 years, and sending the bill to the public as a tax increase.  (That is what is called a "deficit neutral" approach).

So in this case, the definition of "affordable" is that YOU can afford to pay for MY health care.

What wrong with proposing to fix health care? Not a thing but the way the government wants to do it its wrong. I mean the public option would lead to a single payer which some liberals want I know but thats not the way to go. I mean everything the government touches they make worse I mean Amtrak, medicare is in debt, Fannie and Freddie. The US government deficit's are out of control. I mean the US governments deficits are going to go up to 9 trillion by 2019 I heard.

In order for any of these problems to be solved, our government has to dispossess corporations of their utter hegemony over society.  The corporations cannot be allowed to strong arm citizens out of money under the false pretenses of providing health insurance.  Furthermore, corporations cannot be allowed to use the U.S. taxpayer as a piggybank when they fail. 

Without reform of campaign finance and reform of lobbying as a system of legalized bribes, we will never begin to recover from our national debt nor will we ever be able to summon more resources for the greater public good, chief among them, the healthcare the rest of the civilized world has.

::)

Let's just hope that the final legislation includes free Eztenze for all, regardless of economic circumstances...

http://www.infomercial-hell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/extenze_drink_cans.jpg

:D

Last time I looked, "affordable" meant spending $1 trillion more over the next 10 years, and sending the bill to the public as a tax increase.  (That is what is called a "deficit neutral" approach).


A tax increase is a small price to pay to not have to pay large medical bills. 

Republicans: We're the Republican Party, we can't run anything except our mouths, so you just get down on your knees as do like we say!
Democrats: (supplicating) Yazza Yazza Yazza!!!

::)

There's nothing wrong with fixing healthcare, and we can use the French system as a good model to go by.

Let's just hope that the final legislation includes free Eztenze for all, regardless of economic circumstances...


http://tommychristopher.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/death_panel1.jpg

"That's right, Foo!  You lost!  And let me tell you what you didn't win: a 20-volume set of the Encyclopedia International, a case of Turtle Wax, and two cans of Extenze!  But that's not all.  You also made yourself look like a jerk in front of millions of people!  You brought shame and disgrace to your family name for generations to come!  You don't get to come back tomorrow, you don't even get a lousy copy of our home game!  You're a complete loser!"

http://tommychristopher.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/death_panel1.jpg

"That's right, Foo!  You lost!  And let me tell you what you didn't win: a 20-volume set of the Encyclopedia International, a case of Turtle Wax, and two cans of Extenze!  But that's not all.  You also made yourself look like a jerk in front of millions of people!  You brought shame and disgrace to your family name for generations to come!  You don't get to come back tomorrow, you don't even get a lousy copy of our home game!  You're a complete loser!"



Foo lost on Jeopardy, baby!

;D

Foo lost on Jeopardy, baby!

;D



Ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo.


He was tense. He was nervous. I just it wasn't his night. I sure hope he does better next weekend on the Price is Right.




Cat

He was tense. He was nervous. I just it wasn't his night. I sure hope he does better next weekend on the Price is Right.


Gads, I hate to get serious for a minute, but that's my biggest beef with US-style health care.  There's no pricing transparency, and there's therefore no market power.

When I go to my mechanic, I describe the symptoms, he makes his best guess, and he says "$100/hour to diagnose/fix it, plus the cost of parts."  I can even look up the prices of some of those parts on the web - and yup, his prices include a basic 50% markup on his price, or 25% below retail/dealer price.  (The difference is that if I buy the parts and he agrees to install 'em, there's no warranty.  I don't begrudge him the markup on the parts -- if a part doesn't fit, or is the wrong part due to a bug in the catalog, he eats the cost of sending it back and the hassle of explaining to his supplier the difference between what was sent and what was asked for...)  I even get a pretty good estimate before the wrench is first turned.  Sometimes the estimate turns out to be low, because he finds stuff that needs fixing along the way.  Sometimes the estimate turns out to be low, because the real problem was simpler than originally thought.  (And on his side, sometimes he takes a loss - billing me for a two hours of work, even if it took 4 hours because a rusted screw broke off in a nearly-inaccessible place, or because the fix didn't quite work.  Other times, he makes a gain on labor - the book says to bill two hours for XYZ, but he's done an XYZ replacement so often that he knows he'll have half an hour to spare.) 

But overall, it works out.  Here's what you need to fix the thing, here's what it cost me, and here's what I'm charging you.  I don't make an insurance claim every time I need an oil change, or even a transmission overhaul.  I just pay the man what he's owed, and if I don't like it, I can go to another mechanic.  (And if he doesn't want to take on the job, he might even send me to another mechanic who specializes in that sort of work.)

When I go to my doctor, it's the exact opposite.  I find out after the visit what he charged for his time.  And depending on whether or not I have insurance, and a combination of what insurance company I have vs. what doctor I'm going to vs. the doctor's relationship with that insurance company, an asprin can cost me anywhere from a $0.00 copay on a $0.99 pill, to a $15.00 copay on a $15.01 pill, to - and this is the weird part - the people who don't have insurance, who get charged $49.99 per pill.  Double the WTF factor on that $49.99 pill, because the people without insurance typically say "No way I can pay that", and the hospital knocks the price down to... well, I don't know, but from the stories I've heard, it could be $5/pill (less than the price the insured patient pays), or it could be $25/pill (which is still more than the price charged to the insured patient). 

It's like taking the most annoying parts of auto repair and combining them with the most annoying pricing practices of the airlines.

And it makes no economic sense whatsoever.

"The Price Is Right" - the doctor who bills you nearest to the amount the patient (or, if insured, the patient's insurance company) is willing to pay, but not over that amount, wins. 

The really ironic thing is that the doctors hate the game even more than the patients.

President's speech is making me tear up.  My parents went bankrupt due to medical bills and having their insurance pulled out from under them without any prior notice. :(

Sorry, had a moment there.

President's speech is making me tear up.  My parents went bankrupt due to medical bills and having their insurance pulled out from under them without any prior notice. :(

Sorry, had a moment there.


You're allow to have one.

So in this case, the definition of "affordable" is that YOU can afford to pay for MY health care.

Given that (according to this page, anyway) healthcare costs in the US are way over double what we pay per capita in the UK, and that's for universal coverage, for the amount you're spending over there you really ought to be able to fund first class care for everyone without people worrying they'll be broke if they have to be picked up by an ambulance before they even get to the hospital.

It seems like there's an idealogical, even dogmatic response over there to the thought of paying for someone else's treatment costs, even if it meant you might be paying less because the whole system's more efficient.

It becomes even more apparent when, in order to justify the current system over there, opponents of change start telling lies and making stuff up.


President's speech is making me tear up.  My parents went bankrupt due to medical bills and having their insurance pulled out from under them without any prior notice. :(

How can *anybody* who isn't some kind of self-centred egomaniac (who obviously has their own cover but doesn't give a sheesh about anyone else) defend the status quo when that sort of thing is happening?

Given that (according to this page, anyway) healthcare costs in the US are way over double what we pay per capita in the UK, and that's for universal coverage, for the amount you're spending over there you really ought to be able to fund first class care for everyone without people worrying they'll be broke if they have to be picked up by an ambulance before they even get to the hospital.

It seems like there's an idealogical, even dogmatic response over there to the thought of paying for someone else's treatment costs, even if it meant you might be paying less because the whole system's more efficient.

It becomes even more apparent when, in order to justify the current system over there, opponents of change start telling lies and making stuff up.
How can *anybody* who isn't some kind of self-centred egomaniac (who obviously has their own cover but doesn't give a sheesh about anyone else) defend the status quo when that sort of thing is happening?




Of course its ideological, but the fear mongers, fanatics, morons do get support from the ignorant.

How can *anybody* who isn't some kind of self-centred egomaniac (who obviously has their own cover but doesn't give a sheesh about anyone else) defend the status quo when that sort of thing is happening?


Exactly.  It pisses me off that Blue Cross did that to my parents.  They screwed them up and piled even MORE stress on my family, which I think eventually caused my dad to be thisclose to having a heart attack, which of course piled on more medical bills. ::)  Now my dad has to buy about $700 worth of medicine each month, but luckily, my mom's insurance actually gets that right and they only have to pay about $70 a month.

They did the bankruptcy route, but to them it was a massive humiliation because they have worked hard all their lives to pay their bills.

The big problem is that people will want to blame your parents. They only way some of these people get it is when it happens to them.  All of the sudden they understand, but it is too late.

Obama sold us out.

Maybe this country is just not mature enough to implement sensible healthcare policy. 

We like the organized crime of the "insurance companies" better.

::)

Cost of Health Care Reform 900 billion over 10 years

Cost of War in Ira/Afghanistan 700 billion to date and climbing


They are pretty quick to kill us, pretty slow to save us.

Cost of Health Care Reform 900 billion over 10 years

Cost of War in Ira/Afghanistan 700 billion to date and climbing


They are pretty quick to kill us, pretty slow to save us.






And so many of those who are pro-war and anti-healthcare reform call themselves "pro-life" all the same.
::)

And so many of those who are pro-war and anti-healthcare reform call themselves "pro-life" all the same.
::)

And completely fail to see the irony in it.

A bit like failing to see the irony in Bush invading to bring democracy to Afghanistan, then the Afghans having a corrupt election ;)

Well, I had my first brush with the ol' Teabaggers (*snort*) today.  We were in Schaumburg, stopped at a red light, and I noticed two people handing out something.  Then I read the signs they were wearing....something along the lines of, "Obama is going to kill you" and "Obama is a Nazi".  I was just getting ready to snap a picture of this f*ckery with my camera phone, when one of them approached Rice's side of the car and handed him the papers, all the while bleating on about how Obama sucks and his healthcare plan is going to kill us all.

The stuff he handed us was a picture of Obama with a Hitler 'stache, and some literature and a website about how Obama is a Socialist Kenyan Muslim grandma killer or some shyt like that.  The front of the booklet had a picture of Hitler and Obama.

I ripped the whole lot up.  I hope the two dickasses saw me doing it before the light turned green and we drove away.

Well, I had my first brush with the ol' Teabaggers (*snort*) today.  We were in Schaumburg, stopped at a red light, and I noticed two people handing out something.  Then I read the signs they were wearing....something along the lines of, "Obama is going to kill you" and "Obama is a Nazi".  I was just getting ready to snap a picture of this f*ckery with my camera phone, when one of them approached Rice's side of the car and handed him the papers, all the while bleating on about how Obama sucks and his healthcare plan is going to kill us all.

The stuff he handed us was a picture of Obama with a Hitler 'stache, and some literature and a website about how Obama is a Socialist Kenyan Muslim grandma killer or some shyt like that.  The front of the booklet had a picture of Hitler and Obama.

I ripped the whole lot up.  I hope the two dickasses saw me doing it before the light turned green and we drove away.


Didja ever notice how these are the same folks who will tell you liberals are ruled by their emotions and how liberals get hysterical about stuff instead of thinking rationally?

:D

Given how these gun-toting rednecks with room-temperature IQs won't shut TF up and leave off, here is Uncle George to tell the truth about the Bible, guns, and your rights as an American.  RIP George, I sure miss ya!

GEORGE CARLIN: YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E&feature=related

GEORGE CARLIN: YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E&feature=related


RIGHTON RIGHTON RIGHTON!!!

Obama sold us out.

Maybe this country is just not mature enough to implement sensible healthcare policy. 

We like the organized crime of the "insurance companies" better.

::)
How did Obama sellout  the American people out? I mean the healthcare bill isn;t even done yet.

How did Obama sellout  the American people out? I mean the healthcare bill isn;t even done yet.


But as far as some are convinced, it is already.

::)

And completely fail to see the irony in it.

A bit like failing to see the irony in Bush invading to bring democracy to Afghanistan, then the Afghans having a corrupt election ;)


Well...  Afghanistan is one of those countries that would be corrupt no matter who's running it.  They're basically the ass end of the Islamic World.

The Taliban was infinitely worse than what we've put in place.

Granted, in hindsight, I think we should've just nuked the place.  It's pretty useless other than being a massive producer of opium.

How did Obama sellout  the American people out? I mean the healthcare bill isn;t even done yet.


I think what Max means is that what Obama now seems willing to accept is nothing more than another boon for insurance companies with no real reform.

F**ck the motherf***King insurance companies.  They prey on our illlness and deaths.  They have no right to exist in a leeeeeeegal consTITutional reeepub-LICK!

Get it, got it, good!

:P

Fug the insurance companies, let
s stuff an apple in the mouths and roast them like the pigs they are over a harvest bonfire, and then let's eat their fat flesh sloooooowl!!!! 


zo jsyr yjr,  zo

I hate theme, I hate them!

>:(

C'mon Max, don't hold back: let us know what you *really* think

C'mon Max, don't hold back: let us know what you *really* think


That was the whiskey talking...but I'm not going to retract it!  BTW, the line before "I hate them, I hate them" would have sounded phonetically the same had I been speaking!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/drunken_smilie.gif