I worry that conservative, religious right viewpoints have been gradually gaining strength and a majority in America's public opinion over the past 20 or so years. I'm 18, and I worry that in my lifetime we will see the end of the Public School system, in favor of homeschooling or charter schools which will indoctrinate kids to believe in young Earth creationism rather than evolution; I worrywe're witnessing the beginning of the end of Social Security and Welfare. I also worry that abortion will become illegal again within my lifetime.

Given current trends, does anyone more knowledgable than I think that my fears will become realized?

I worry that conservative, religious right viewpoints have been gradually gaining strength and a majority in America's public opinion over the past 20 or so years. I'm 18, and I worry that in my lifetime we will see the end of the Public School system, in favor of homeschooling or charter schools which will indoctrinate kids to believe in young Earth creationism rather than evolution; I worrywe're witnessing the beginning of the end of Social Security and Welfare. I also worry that abortion will become illegal again within my lifetime.

Given current trends, does anyone more knowledgable than I think that my fears will become realized?




Well let's see.

The President of the United States and a majority of the US Congress is in the control of the Democratic Party, whcih has its nose so far up the butts of the teachers' unions it can barely breathe

I think you have little about which to worry.  Rest assured that when it is time to send your kids to school, they will be able to attend a poorly-performing public school with a 60% dropout rate.

The fundies will have to send their kids to private schools where the dropout rate is likely (I am guessing here) 10% or less.

I worry that conservative, religious right viewpoints have been gradually gaining strength and a majority in America's public opinion over the past 20 or so years. I'm 18, and I worry that in my lifetime we will see the end of the Public School system, in favor of homeschooling or charter schools which will indoctrinate kids to believe in young Earth creationism rather than evolution; I worrywe're witnessing the beginning of the end of Social Security and Welfare. I also worry that abortion will become illegal again within my lifetime.

Given current trends, does anyone more knowledgable than I think that my fears will become realized?

The Religious Right is actually losing power -- even within the GOP.  The fastest growing religious demographic is actually the non-religious -- agnostics, atheists, etc.

It's not that the Religious Right is gaining power -- they are just more vocal than ever.  As a result, there's pressure for more options in education, like homeschooling.

While creationism could become rather significant among homeschooling and private schools, homeschoolers at least must still pass end of grade state tests that usually involve some aspect of understanding evolution.

Social Security's days are numbered, but it's likely that it will be replaced by socialized medicine.  Welfare is pretty much here to stay.

Abortion will probably never be illegal on a national level.  However, revoking Roe vs. Wade is possible.  Abortion could become a state issue again, but that is a somewhat remote possibility given the even split in the Supreme Court between the Left and the Right.

Well let's see.

The President of the United States and a majority of the US Congress is in the control of the Democratic Party, whcih has its nose so far up the butts of the teachers' unions it can barely breathe

I think you have little about which to worry.  Rest assured that when it is time to send your kids to school, they will be able to attend a poorly-performing public school with a 60% dropout rate.

The fundies will have to send their kids to private schools where the dropout rate is likely (I am guessing here) 10% or less.


You sure know yer Newt.

rant

The only public schools with a dropout rate that high are in economically destroyed inner cities and rural poverty pockets.  When the funnymentalists get in charge, they want to teach our kids the world is six thousand years old, created in six-literal 24-hour days by a man in the sky who sees all and has a list of 10 rules.  My kid (if I had one) would learn more biology staying home and watching porno videos.  

The "teachers unions" are a red herring.  The health of the public schools reflect the health of the community they serve.  The distresses of poverty -- broken homes, domestic violence, malnutrition, crime, social chaos, ontological insecurity -- are what ruins public schools NOT teachers unions.  The right-wing likes to point to the high per-pupil expenditure rates in poor communities (especially in the inner cities where Blacks and Latinos live) as a reason why "government schools" are a failure.  Once again, it goes back to the socioeconomic health of the community of which the public schools are a part.  Again, nothing to do with teachers unions.

Public schools often perform poorly in affluent communities.  This is a reflection of the priorities of society.  Often times home owners in rich towns don't want to pay the taxes to maintain a comprehensive curriculum.  Another problem is American values are downright fatuous.  You have the liberals with their self-esteem courses and the conservatives with their faith-based science nonsense.  Here, the teachers unions are indeed at fault--with everybody else.  

Private schools perform better because they can kick you out.  Public schools have to try to educate everybody.  

Vouchers are a subsidy for middle income and upper middle income families.  They won't help students in the poorest communities who can't afford tuition of any amount and the voucher system only serves to further de-fund the most vulnerable schools.

/rant

Anyway, when the petroleum-based economy collapses in the next 20 years, we might have a 60% dropout rate as we fight for our survival in the new dark age.  

The religious right's power is on the wane.  Unfortunately, America's power is on the wane and I don't see the trend reversing.  The 21st century will belong to China and India.  

If you don't have kids and you're worried about what kind of future you're kids will have, the solution is simple: Don't have kids.  If you have children in the near future, I can guarantee you their lives will be much harder and their standard of living much lower than yours.  Of course, some folks feel a biological/philosophical imperative to perpetuate the human race and if that's an imperative to which you must submit, then just understand your children might not be able to bask in the leisurely lifestyle afforded to us by cheap oil.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/05/jaybee.gif

The health of the public schools reflect the health of the community they serve.  The distresses of poverty -- broken homes, domestic violence, malnutrition, crime, social chaos, ontological insecurity -- are what ruins public schools NOT teachers unions.  The right-wing likes to point to the high per-pupil expenditure rates in poor communities (especially in the inner cities where Blacks and Latinos live) as a reason why "government schools" are a failure.  Once again, it goes back to the socioeconomic health of the community of which the public schools are a part. 


Damned if I'm not about to agree with you Max!

St. Louis County school system dropout rate - Just under 4.5%.  And I quote - 'The racial makeup of the county was 70.83% White, 24.02% African American, 0.17% Native American, 2.22% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.47% from other races, and 1.26% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.01% of the population. The median income for a household in the county was $50,532, and the median income for a family was $61,680.'

St. Louis City school system - Unaccredited. The school system lost it's accreditation entirely two years ago and has not got it back - Dropout rate - Roughly 25%. The figures are a hard to get a grasp on because of the schools losing their accreditation, hence, some students who dropped out, aren't counted because they couldn't have 'graduated' anyway. Once again, I quote - 'At the 2005-2007 American Community Survey Estimates, the city's population was 47.2% White (44.2% non-Hispanic White alone), 50.4% Black or African American, 0.9% American Indian and Alaska Native, 2.4% Asian, 0.8% from some other race and 1.6% from two or more races. 2.6% of the total population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. The median income for a household in the city was $29,156, and the median income for a family was $32,585. Males had a median income of $31,106 versus $26,987 for females. The per capita income for the city was $18,108.'

Facts is facts. The county schools in the affluent suburbs have a very low dropout rate, the schools in the poorer city have higher dropout rates. Much as I'd normally like to dispute 'socio-economic blight' with Max. The facts are clear to see.

Nobody is disputing the disparity in dropout rates between the affluent suburbs and the poor inner cities.  The pop-cultural discourse is mainly about averting blame from the socioeconomic issues and redirecting the blame to "liberal values," to which all "poor minorities" have been enslaved by the corrupt Democrat party.  Oh, and listening to hip-hop and naming your kids funny names is another culprit ala Bill Cosby. 
I say this is a specious argument of political convenience and is not reflect reality.  There is a long tradition in the American ethos which equates poverty with character flaws.  This is also a grave error to make if you want to address issues of systemic poverty in a post-industrial state, which most politicians -- Republican AND Democratic -- do not.
::)

I worry that conservative, religious right viewpoints have been gradually gaining strength and a majority in America's public opinion over the past 20 or so years. I'm 18, and I worry that in my lifetime we will see the end of the Public School system, in favor of homeschooling or charter schools which will indoctrinate kids to believe in young Earth creationism rather than evolution; I worrywe're witnessing the beginning of the end of Social Security and Welfare. I also worry that abortion will become illegal again within my lifetime.

Given current trends, does anyone more knowledgable than I think that my fears will become realized?


No, I don't think so.  And I am a Conservtive.

You are talking about the "Extreme Fringe".  And while a lot of Conservatives support giving people more options in things like education and the phasing out of a "Lifetime Welfare" policy, you would find that most of us would resist the radical changes that some want to make.

And the odds of abortion becomming illegal are about as likely as JFK and Elvis stepping out of a flying saucer and running for office on the Bull Moose platform.

BTW, I support vouchers for accredited private schools, be they seccular or religious.  I find no fault of teaching creationism as an alternate theory, as long as evolution is also taught.  I support welfare, but think it should have time limits, and encourage and promote returning to work (Workfare).  I oppose abortion as a means of birth control, but do not feel it should be illegal.  I support it's use in the cases of mother's health or in the case of rape, but not just because the "adults" were to lazy to use birth control.  But I do not feel my distaste of that is a reason to make it illegal.

Much like I find liver and onions distastefull, but do not think that is sufficient reason to make it illegal.

Creationism as religion or mythology, NOT science.

Vouchers are a subsidy for middle income and upper middle income families.  They won't help students in the poorest communities who can't afford tuition of any amount and the voucher system only serves to further de-fund the most vulnerable schools.


Most of the voucher programs I have seen proposed are "100% vouchers" where the family of the student does not pony up any money (other than the property taxes etc that they are already paying into the system).

Note that here in the Picksburgh area we have an interstring situation.  The Catholic school system, on a per-student basis, spends vastly LESS per student than the public schools around here.  Yet graduation rates, dropout rates, test scores are all vastly BETTER than the public school systems.

Sadly the Catholic system is shrinking because while the spending is less than public school systems, the church has not been able to come up with enuf dough to fund even that.  A big part of the problem is because a big part of the funding comes from tuition.  But the parents end up "paying tuition twice" because they are still stuck paying public school taxes.

So... why is is that the private school (in this case a Roamin' Catholic one) can get the job done better with LESS MONEY in the same town?

So... why is is that the private school (in this case a Roamin' Catholic one) can get the job done better with LESS MONEY in the same town?


Maybe because it is not Government, and has to succeede or fail on it's own merits.  Not because of unions and apathy, where the solution to everything seems to be "throw more money at it" instead of "fix the problem".

And there is also the issue of things being better and worth more to the person when they are actually paid for, instead of handed over on a silver platter.

I worry that conservative, religious right viewpoints have been gradually gaining strength and a majority in America's public opinion over the past 20 or so years. I'm 18, and I worry that in my lifetime we will see the end of the Public School system, in favor of homeschooling or charter schools which will indoctrinate kids to believe in young Earth creationism rather than evolution; I worrywe're witnessing the beginning of the end of Social Security and Welfare. I also worry that abortion will become illegal again within my lifetime.

Given current trends, does anyone more knowledgable than I think that my fears will become realized?




I don't think your fears are justified.  The fundies are very vocal, and get lots of coverage from Foux news and talk radio, but I think most people reject their message.  Public schools are here to stay - I won't restate Max's arguments but they are right on.  By the way, my 4 kids were all homeschooled and were taught evolution - my oldest daughter is a Ph.D biologist who studies evolution.  I don't believe all the horror stories about the end of Soc Sec - it will be fixed, maybe modified, but not killed (much to Macphisto's chagrin) and welfare may change, but some form of social safety net will be there.  I don't see the repeal of Roe V Wade any time soon. 

I think you need to see trends as a pendulum which swings in both directions.  From Reagan through Bush it was swinging to the right.  Now it is swinging back towards the center and maybe to the keft of center.  What disturbs me is that it always swings further to the right than to the left.

Maybe because it is not Government, and has to succeede or fail on it's own merits.  Not because of unions and apathy, where the solution to everything seems to be "throw more money at it" instead of "fix the problem".

And there is also the issue of things being better and worth more to the person when they are actually paid for, instead of handed over on a silver platter.



And they can kick you out.

Some students are impossible.  Costs a fortune to educate them.  I know first hand.  It might not show in my posts, but I was one of those students. 

I came from a broken home and a horribly dysfunctional family.  I had numerous developmental and behavioral problems.  The district had to spend a ton of special ed money on me, mainly because I couldn't do math (or so they started telling me in first grade).  Then in high school I was truant a lot of the time and spent some time in an "alternative school," which was little more than a day reformatory.  I was trouble.  No, I was never into crime, drugs, or vandalism, but I was trouble...and the public schools HAD to deal with me. 

I never thought of my "public education" as free.  I certainly knew the taxpayers were funding it.  I used to hear my resource room instructor grumbling about budget cuts all the time. 

Handed to me on a silver platter?  I dunno.  It seemed more like one of those plastic ones you get from low budget caterers!

Now, here is the irony regarding Mushroom's sanctimonious statements about private schools.  Okay, there's George W. Bush, but I'll leave that one alone for now.  If you can pony up thirty or forty thousand a year, you can send your kid to prep school even if he's a car-stealing dope fiend.  No, he won't get into Andover or Groton but perhaps Brewster Academy or the Landmark School will take him.  Some of these fourth tier prep schools will even drug test your kid every week and watch him 24/7.  He'll have to fight really hard to get kicked out and in the end, you can do the same for college if you've got the bucks.  Now, if you're poor, well, then you get the same deal I got!

If anybody has education handed to him on a silver platter, it's the dumb rich kid!

Right-wingers poo-poo outcome-based education but never income-based education, or income-based education with the guaranteed outcome!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/05/freak6.gif

If anybody has education handed to him on a silver platter, it's the dumb rich kid!


Don't confuse a phrase of speech with the idea that public education is worth a damn.  Because I know it is a joke.

I graduated from Van Nuys High in 1983.  In the middle of the "Valley Girl" era.  The year before our Senior Class President was Paula Abdul.  Christine and Fast Times At Ridgemont High were filmed there while I attended.  It was also "Rock And Roll High School".  This was considered to be an "Elite Magnet School" for the LA Unified School District.  Alumni include Robert Redford, Natalie Wood, Ed Begley Jr, Stacy Keech, Don Drysdale, Marilyn Monroe, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

I will readily admit, I skipped 2/3 of my senior year.  There were 1 or 2 classes that I went to maybe once or twice in the entire year.  Yet, I still graduated.  And it still has a horrible drop-out record.  LAUSD graduates less then 50% of it's students.