Can someone give me the details of Obama's Universal Healthcare plan and keep it updated as to whether the plan is going through or not?

here you go

^ That was awesome! ;D

here you go


If that wasn't a karma-worthy reply, I don't know what is.

Ant

Karma for Karen ;D

If that wasn't a karma-worthy reply, I don't know what is.

Ant







Ditto!  How did you do that, Karen? Fantastic!!  One from me too!

Yeah, but I meant like in layman's english--Just simple. Also, I was just wondering if any headway was being made?

here you go


You make me cry with laughter.

here you go


Hey, that wasn't nice.  My insurance doesn't cover my sarcasm allergy meds!
:P

here you go


That was so cool!!! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/ylsuper.gif

Yeah, but I meant like in layman's english--Just simple. Also, I was just wondering if any headway was being made?


Simply put it's medicare for all.  Insurance companies are fighting it tooth and nail.  The A.M.A. isn't exactly too thrilled about the government having more say either.  They're propably still miffed about medicare payments being incredibly slow.  Anyway the best way to bring Universal Health care is on a state level.  National is just too damn big too not fail.

in layman's terms? good health = socialism. in a free market, sick people die. it's the invissible hand of the market at work!

in layman's terms? good health = socialism. in a free market, sick people die. it's the invissible hand of the market at work!


Yeah, what Tia said.

Remember, health insurance and health care are not one in the same thing. 

Thanks to Mitt Romney, all citizens of Massachusetts are required to carry health insurance.  If you can't buy a private plan, you wind up int he expanded medicaid program...Romneycare, to coin a term.

Romneycare means you have health insurance, but you might very well be denied the health care you need!
::)

Right.  With socialized medicine the state decides what care is available and to whom, with free market medicine some for profit insurance company does the same thing.

It's like back in the 70's & 80's when Maggie Thatcher said "totalitarian gov'ts oppress, torture, and kill their own people, authoritarian gov'ts leave these functions to the private sector." 

We don't have health care in this country. We have sick care.


I was talking to a friend of mine recently who is a die-heart Republican. (Yes, she voted for McCain and is so worried that Obama is going to take away her guns.  ::) but that is another story.) She said to me that she didn't want the government involved in her heath care. I didn't ask her (which I should have) why would she rather have some admin person at an insurance company dictate what procedure she can or can't have & why is that any different than if she went to the doctor & the doc sends the bill to Uncle Sam?



Cat

We don't have health care in this country. We have sick care.


I was talking to a friend of mine recently who is a die-heart Republican. (Yes, she voted for McCain and is so worried that Obama is going to take away her guns.  ::) but that is another story.) She said to me that she didn't want the government involved in her heath care. I didn't ask her (which I should have) why would she rather have some admin person at an insurance company dictate what procedure she can or can't have & why is that any different than if she went to the doctor & the doc sends the bill to Uncle Sam?



Cat


I just love the image of Obama walking into some gun lover's house, saying, "Excuse me, I'm here for the guns.  Give 'em to me right now," and then sauntering out with a cache of shotguns and rifles over his shoulder. 

8)

The only developed nation without universal healthcare. It's beside me how you're all not rioting everyday about it.

The only developed nation without universal healthcare. It's beside me how you're all not rioting everyday about it.


The AMA's propaganda is quite pervasive.

We don't have health care in this country. We have sick care.

I was talking to a friend of mine recently who is a die-heart Republican. (Yes, she voted for McCain and is so worried that Obama is going to take away her guns.  ::) but that is another story.) She said to me that she didn't want the government involved in her heath care. I didn't ask her (which I should have) why would she rather have some admin person at an insurance company dictate what procedure she can or can't have & why is that any different than if she went to the doctor & the doc sends the bill to Uncle Sam?

Cat


Because when Uncle Sam decides to under-fund her insurance program, she's gonna be SOL. 

Because when Uncle Sam decides to under-fund her insurance program, she's gonna be SOL. 


Dr. Rumsfeld told me an appendectomy was a simple operation they do all the time, but my kidneys and my liver are still on the table and Dr. Cheney and Dr. Obama are still arguing about wtf to do next...maybe they'll sew me up next week if the insurance company can come up with another 20 million!
:(

The AMA's propaganda is quite pervasive.


Well they need to get over it or people need to stop listening to them,one of the two.

You don't see it happening anywhere else and doctor lobbies are powerful in every country so i don't buy that excuse.

The members of Congress don't seem to have a problem having the government run their health care

www.tscl.org/NewContent/101421.asp


Members of Congress enjoy excellent health benefits under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP).  For 2002, Representative Hoeffel could choose from 11 different health care plans under FEHBP.  All plans offer prescription drug benefits.

The government (meaning taxpayers like you and me) pays 72% of the average premium but not more than 75%.  Your Congressman saw the remaining 25% deducted from his $12,500 monthly paycheck (also paid for by you and me).  This is similar to the amount the government pays under Medicare.  Under Medicare, the government pays 75% of the Part B premium and the other 25% monthly premium is deducted from your Social Security check (which is much, much less than $12,500 per month).

Among the 11 health plans, the federal employee share of monthly premiums ranges from a low of $55.58 per month to a high of $354.08 per month. 

Well they need to get over it or people need to stop listening to them,one of the two.

You don't see it happening anywhere else and doctor lobbies are powerful in every country so i don't buy that excuse.


Pharmaceutical lobbies are more powerful here than anywhere else.

The members of Congress don't seem to have a problem having the government run their health care

www.tscl.org/NewContent/101421.asp


Members of Congress enjoy excellent health benefits under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP).  For 2002, Representative Hoeffel could choose from 11 different health care plans under FEHBP.  All plans offer prescription drug benefits.

The government (meaning taxpayers like you and me) pays 72% of the average premium but not more than 75%.  Your Congressman saw the remaining 25% deducted from his $12,500 monthly paycheck (also paid for by you and me).  This is similar to the amount the government pays under Medicare.  Under Medicare, the government pays 75% of the Part B premium and the other 25% monthly premium is deducted from your Social Security check (which is much, much less than $12,500 per month).

Among the 11 health plans, the federal employee share of monthly premiums ranges from a low of $55.58 per month to a high of $354.08 per month. 


Yeah, I'd love to have the same health ins. as my congressman.

I keep hearing Republicans present these convoluted Rube Goldberg schemes for reforming health care without really reforming it.  Anything--anything--but admit single payer is cheaper and easier!
::)

The Reagan Administration opened up the health care for profit door and it has been a tragedy for the working person ever since.  Still the people who he hurt the most genuflect.

I saw some of the testimony on C-Span.

Blue Cross canceled on this one woman because she developed breast cancer.  It was not a pre-existing condition, but they did find, after nitpicking through her health records, that she had some kind of skin rash in the '80s and she didn't mention it on her application.  So, they canceled her.  She fought it.  The tumors grew and grew as they denied her benefits.  Finally she got reinstated.  By that time she had to have a double mastectomy and all her lymph nodes removed.  

Congressman Phil Gingrey (R. GA), himself an OB/GYN, told her she should be grateful we don't have nationalized health care like in Canada or the UK, because then it would be rationed and she would have had to wait in a long line to have the operations.

These crooks are so in the back pocket of the insurance industry it has rendered them clinically insane.  

No mention from Gingrey that she had been denied coverage because of a minor clerical error utterly unrelated to the life-threatening condition at hand.  That woman was standing there in front of Gingrey, again a physician himself, was haggard, fatigued, and lucky just to be alive and all the congressman could talk about was how bad they have it up in Canada.

I don't want a public option, I want a public health care system.  The insurance companies are amoral and psychopathic.  They have done NOTHING to earn our confidence.  If Obama and the Dems let them get themselves bullied by the Greedy Old Party into this "public option,"* which will arrive as nothing more than a slight amplification to medicaid, the insurance industry hand-in-hand with the legislators they own will destroy it by attrition.  The goal unstated by the insurance goons will be to not only render the public option useless, but destroy medicaid/ medicare in the process.  

If you don't do your job, somebody else has to do it for you.  GM turned to the government hat in hand because they spent the past three decades destroying their own company.  The Republicans are outraged the government has the temerity to demand a say in the administration of the remnants of GM if they're going to "lend" it billions.  

Similarly, the insurance companies since the inception of the HMO during the Nixon administration have fought bitterly to deny coverage in every corner they can.  This is NOT why consumers purchase health plans.  We do NOT pay premiums so insurance bureaucrats can tell us to go screw when we get sick and insurance execs can retire with 8-figure golden parachutes.  The insurance industry has wantonly perverted its mission and have forfeited their right to a voice in the well-being of our country's citizens...of course, since we live in a fascist state masked by a Potemkin village democracy, they're going to remain in charge until the citizens start resorting to extralegal measures to dethrone them.

*Oh, wait, silly me, the Republicans don't want ANY "public option" to begin with.  Silly me, silly, silly, silly!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/vogel.gif

Congressman Phil Gingrey (R. GA), himself an OB/GYN, told her she should be grateful we don't have nationalized health care like in Canada or the UK, because then it would be rationed and she would have had to wait in a long line to have the operations.
Im with kaiser and they have a three month waiting list for routine checkups.  ::)

Im with kaiser and they have a three month waiting list for routine checkups.  ::)


Well, that's because you can't buy health insurance across state lines!  See, it's the government meddling in the free market again.  If Kaiser in Maryland had to compete with Blue Cross in New Jersey, well, then you could just walk in and see your doctor any old time!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/coffee.gif

Im with kaiser and they have a three month waiting list for routine checkups.  ::)
dude...you need to pick a different HMO or PPO if you gotta wait that long  ::)  I have United Health and get appts in 2 days 

dude...you need to pick a different HMO or PPO if you gotta wait that long   ::)   I have United Health and get appts in 2 days  
i picked it because they would allow me to add someone with a pre-existing condition if i needed to. there was another policy where i assume the waiting list wasn't so long but you couldn't add people with pre-existing conditions.

there's always something, reason is because no matter what, if they can't profit from you, they won't cover you. that's how this system works. if you're sick, the idea is to find a way to let you die. that's the only way to profit from healthcare. only insure people who don't need it.

i picked it because they would allow me to add someone with a pre-existing condition if i needed to. there was another policy where i assume the waiting list wasn't so long but you couldn't add people with pre-existing conditions.

there's always something, reason is because no matter what, if they can't profit from you, they won't cover you. that's how this system works. if you're sick, the idea is to find a way to let you die. that's the only way to profit from healthcare. only insure people who don't need it.
it's no wonder they're not urgently trying to heal or get people well because the tests and treatments are so darn expensive and medical facilities seem to focus more on cutting costs and the sick and dying don't or can't be productive &  contribute . the long wait from Kaiser still sounds longer than many here in Cal that I know that have Kaiser, they seem to get appts. with not much of a wait. maybe you need to move to Cal.  nice Badfinger reference  8)

When my sister was living in California she had Kaiser and had a heck of a time getting care.  She had a bad hip and needed a replacement, they kept putting it off saying it wasn't "necessary at this time".  She was having a hard time walking and paid out of pocket for a second opinion.  The doctor asked to see the x-rays of the hip from Kaiser.  Kaiser hadn't okayed x-rays on her hip for 5 years.  The doctor ordered x-rays and my sisters hip had degenerated so far that she was within weeks of having the bone entirely disintergrate.  The doctor called Kaiser and they okayed the surgery 2 days later. If she had depended on Kaiser she would have lost the whole hip, not to mention the additional complications

Pharmaceutical lobbies are more powerful here than anywhere else.


I believe that's more a worldwide problem. Americans like to come up with "oh but here is different,it would never work", guess what? You are not that different. If some kind of universal healthcare works in almost every other place on earth it could work there too,is only complicated when you don't want to do it

What the AMA seems to forget is that they would still be the highest paid professions,no one asks doctors and other health workers to work for free, the only difference is that the State is gonna pay the bill this time. At least you could finally say: "i know where my tax money is going now."

My friend suggested that the USA is so big and spread out that each state should set up its own state-specific healthcare system.  A federal system would likely be overwhelmed and destined for failure given the population that needs service and the demographics.

I admit though that I don't know enough about this topic to make a definitive statement one way or the other, but I guess the big thing would be, "who's paying for this?"  :-\\

My friend suggested that the USA is so big and spread out that each state should set up its own state-specific healthcare system.  A federal system would likely be overwhelmed and destined for failure given the population that needs service and the demographics.

I admit though that I don't know enough about this topic to make a definitive statement one way or the other, but I guess the big thing would be, "who's paying for this?"  :-\\


You are. Just like i am here.

I used to bitch so much about taxes and social security discounts i had to do, what a fudgeing robbery that was. Well look at me now,where would i be now if i lived in the US? 'Cause i sure can't afford all the treatments and hospital stays.

Living in society is this, you give some and even if you don't get some back you agree to it. Why is that concept so difficult to grasp?

You are. Just like i am here.

I used to bitch so much about taxes and social security discounts i had to do, what a fudging robbery that was. Well look at me now,where would i be now if i lived in the US? 'Cause i sure can't afford all the treatments and hospital stays.

Living in society is this, you give some and even if you don't get some back you agree to it. Why is that concept so difficult to grasp?



The American attitude is sort of the opposite of what you propose...they want everything, but they don't want to have to work for/pay for it.  Kind of dumb, no?

I believe that's more a worldwide problem. Americans like to come up with "oh but here is different,it would never work", guess what? You are not that different. If some kind of universal healthcare works in almost every other place on earth it could work there too,is only complicated when you don't want to do it

What the AMA seems to forget is that they would still be the highest paid professions,no one asks doctors and other health workers to work for free, the only difference is that the State is gonna pay the bill this time. At least you could finally say: "i know where my tax money is going now."


That's right, Dizzy.  If Peru and Costa Rica can do it, the United States can do it too; however, the plutocrats in charge have different interests than the people.  The disinformation campaign against healthcare is running full tilt.  

As Dennis Kucinich said, I'm not interested in health insurance, I'm interested in health care.  Americans will have to stop being obedient serfs and stand up and say, "I have the right to health care and private insurance companies don't have the right to deny me access."  The conservatives will always say healthcare is not a right because it is not mentioned explicitly in the U.S. constitution.  If the conservatives want an 18th century document to deny the rights to healthcare, said conservatives should pledge they will only accept medical treatments for themselves that were available in 1791.  If it was good enough for George Washington, by gum, it's good enough for you!
:D

Dick Morris, evil personified, is leading the charge in the disinformation campaign.  Among his arguments is if we have universal healthcare doctors will stop practicing in this country.  Where are they going to go?  Canada? The UK?  France?  Spain?  D'oh!  One thing that would help doctors is affordable med school tuition.  If you can prove you've got the mettle to make it through medical school and excel at the rigors of all the disciplines therein, then you should be able to go for free.  That way, the doctor would not emerge from her education and owe $150,000 at the age of 27 before she even starts her residency.  Conservatives cringe at the idea of anything being free.  I agree here, attending medical school...and for that matter associated professions such as nursing and physical therapy...must not be FREE.  While little or no money will be charged to the student, the student will work his ass off becoming the best physician, nurse, physical therapist, dentist, etc., he can be.  If you can develop such skills, that is a social good society should invest in.  

A cardiologist might make only $200,000 a year under nationalized healthcare, as opposed to $450,000 now, but if your goal as a doctor is to make as much money as possible, you should be unwelcome in the profession.  Go be a commodities broker or something.

The American attitude is sort of the opposite of what you propose...they want everything, but they don't want to have to work for/pay for it.  Kind of dumb, no?


Very dumb since your system is way more sick than i can ever be.

Very dumb since your system is way more sick than i can ever be.


The system is grossly mismanaged...too much paperwork, too many admins, not enough actual doctoring. 

The American attitude is ...they want everything, but they don't want to have to work for/pay for it. 


Few jobs pay enough to allow  person to pay for a bypass operation out of pocket.

Of course, when it comes to consumption of luxuries and frivolities, Americans have indeed shown a need to keep up with the Joneses even if it sinks them deep into debt. This is a result of consumerist propaganda pounded into American pop culture 24/7 via commercial media and a public unwilling to resist the pressure.

Dubya said we should be an "ownership society."  But I have bad credit and a $10 an hour job.  That's okay, we can fix you up with a subprime mortgage!  Hooray!!!

::)

If this passes, does this mean that people in California can line up and get free pot?

After all, that is a state that already has "Medicinal Marijuanna" laws.  And in Cradle to Grave Government funded health care, they will be obligated to provide people with their medication free of charge.

Is it me, or are we getting closer to "A Brave New World" every day?  When will the medicine cabinet be telling us what pills to take in the morning?

After all, that is a state that already has "Medicinal Marijuanna" laws. 



I, for one, will not throw stones on that one, having known people with cancer who ignored the social restriction and were helped through chemo with a little bit of home grown.

If this passes, does this mean that people in California can line up and get free pot?

After all, that is a state that already has "Medicinal Marijuanna" laws.  And in Cradle to Grave Government funded health care, they will be obligated to provide people with their medication free of charge.

Is it me, or are we getting closer to "A Brave New World" every day?  When will the medicine cabinet be telling us what pills to take in the morning?


Petty.  Ineffably petty.  Why must you be so damn jealous about everything? 

People go broke every day trying to pay medical bills and get bullied out of the healthcare they need by greedy insurance companies and yet it sticks in your craw that some old man might be getting his heart medicine for free when you have a $15 co-pay for your own scrips.  And this free pot for everybody in California hogwash reminds me of the kind of hysteria one hears from Michael Savage and G. Gordon Liddy.  Come on!
::)

I'm cool with universal healthcare but we can't call it "free"...somebody has to pay for it, and that somebody's going to be the middle class because the upper classes won't give up their tax shelters and the lower class is just too poor.  If you raise taxes you have to first educate the populace on how to reallocate their funds because nobody knows how to claim the correct deductions/exemptions on their W-4s so the government doesn't just take an interest-free loan before giving them some of it back in February of the next year, which the peeps are gonna spend on a new HDTV anyway.  It's a hell of a lot more complicated than "Hey, let's pass a trillion dollar health bill with fake money and everything will be okay!"  :o

I paid for medical insurance once for wife and child...they actually got really good plans while we were in Indiana, good doctors, short wait times.  All-Kids takes FOR-E-VER...but I can't complain because I'm poor and it's free and they get taken care of, just a few hours after the fact :P  I imagine that even if you cite someplace like Canada or France or whatever, the stories will range from "Universal healthcare is great, I don't have to wait that long and my meds are free!" to "Universal healthcare sucks!  I almost bled to death in the waiting room at the ER!"  :P

Of course there's no free ride.  We pay for public education, we subsidize higher education, we pay for roads and bridges (although not enough), for fire and police protection and lotys more.  Health care should be just one more thing supported through taxes.  And as it is now, some people do bleed to death in emergence rooms.

Of course there's no free ride.  We pay for public education, we subsidize higher education, we pay for roads and bridges (although not enough), for fire and police protection and lotys more.  Health care should be just one more thing supported through taxes.  And as it is now, some people do bleed to death in emergence rooms.


All of those systems are running out of $ too. 

People go broke every day trying to pay medical bills

A reason why my parents had to file for bankruptcy.  At least $100,000 in medical bills, possibly more.


I paid for medical insurance once for wife and child...they actually got really good plans while we were in Indiana, good doctors, short wait times.

You and I have different memories of that then.  I remember shelling out a crapload of money each month for something that just wasn't worth it.  My doctor was an asshole.

All-Kids takes FOR-E-VER...but I can't complain because I'm poor and it's free and they get taken care of, just a few hours after the fact :P

It took use exactly two weeks to be covered by All Kids.  And of course the clinic is going to take long.  Their staff is inept, but the doctors are great.  So yeah, it's annoying that I have to wait two hours after my actual appointment time to see the doctor, but I still see her on the same day and she's fantastic.  So even though I piss and moan about it, at least I'm getting coverage.

Your insurance through the University sucks more than All Kids.  United Healthcare is a joke.

My insurance does suck :P

My insurance does suck :P


They send me like 10 letters before they send me the actual bill, no wonder it costs so much, 90% of it is paperwork and useless admin :P

You and I have different memories of that then.  I remember shelling out a crapload of money each month for something that just wasn't worth it.  My doctor was an asshole.


I think I had to get the cheaper insurance for you because we wanted to be sure Jason was covered well...he had a really cool pediatrician too and we never had to wait too long for him.  Guess you get what you pay for :(

I believe that's more a worldwide problem. Americans like to come up with "oh but here is different,it would never work", guess what? You are not that different. If some kind of universal healthcare works in almost every other place on earth it could work there too,is only complicated when you don't want to do it

What the AMA seems to forget is that they would still be the highest paid professions,no one asks doctors and other health workers to work for free, the only difference is that the State is gonna pay the bill this time. At least you could finally say: "i know where my tax money is going now."


I'm fully in support of socialized healthcare.  What I'm saying is that the lobbies are powerful enough to block the formation of it.

Everyone should write their Congressperson & their Senators and say one thing: I want the health care plan you have."



Cat

Everyone should write their Congressperson & their Senators and say one thing: I want the health care plan you have."

Cat


Agreed.

I'm fully in support of socialized healthcare.  What I'm saying is that the lobbies are powerful enough to block the formation of it.


That's what we're seeing right before our very eyes.  So, what are we gonna do about it?

That's what we're seeing right before our very eyes.  So, what are we gonna do about it?



I don't know.  Pharmaceutical corporations own members of both parties.  Obama's plan will hopefully fix things, but he's fighting an uphill battle.

Well, maybe if they try to get the cost of reagents down, the drugs wouldn't cost so darned much to develop :P  Do you have any idea how much money we have to blow every day in our lab?  :P 

Everyone should write their Congressperson & their Senators and say one thing: I want the health care plan you have."

Cat


Well, that's pretty much what I and my family have.

I find it kinda funny that of all the world class hospitals in this country, most politicians choose to go to Navy and Army hospitals.  The Bethedsa Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Army Medical Center attract not only our politicians, but people in power from all over the world.

Of course, a totally different subject is the fact that Congress routinely exempts itself from the laws it passes.  And no doubt if socialized health care came to be, they will once again exempt themselves from it.

http://www.heritage.org/research/governmentreform/bu218.cfm

Well, maybe if they try to get the cost of reagents down, the drugs wouldn't cost so darned much to develop :P  Do you have any idea how much money we have to blow every day in our lab?  :P 


Hey man, Reagent was a great president!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/notworthy.gif

Well, maybe if they try to get the cost of reagents down, the drugs wouldn't cost so darned much to develop :P  Do you have any idea how much money we have to blow every day in our lab?  :P 


Do you know how many billions drug companies spend on advertising prescription drugs?

Do you know how many billions drug companies spend on advertising prescription drugs?


True.

Drug companies will always have clients. And a market for private medicine will always exist so i don't really get why there are still voices agaisnt some sort of socialized healthcare. I don't think i'll ever understand it ::)

Do you know how many billions drug companies spend on advertising prescription drugs?


The advertising comes on the back end of the actual R&D.  R&D costs a bunch due to the running of the facilities, the manpower, and the reagents required to develop, test, and mass-produce the drug.  As interim lab manager I have to order supplies for the entire lab and am indirectly responsible for the lab budget...it's ridiculous the amount of $$ we blow going through the scientific process and it's even more discouraging when experiments are negative or null results 95% of the time...

Now consider that we don't actually advertise and the principal investigator only has to pay for one graduate student and one postdoctoral fellow (I and a fellow student are still on training grants, though mine runs out soon and I was unable to secure a fellowship)...we still have to spend almost a quarter million dollars a year to function as a lab.  How much do you think a biotech firm, even a startup, has to raise in order to stay afloat?

And once again, it comes down to reagents...they ain't cheap, and we unfortunately have to use them every day :(  A vial of one specific antibody and/or enzyme containing 100 microliters of solution costs something like $50 to $200; that will last maybe a month at most before it must be replenished because of all the experiments that have to be performed. 

It's not that I condone the pharmaceutical lobby, I'm just making the point that medical science costs a f**kload of money and even more time and energy to do right.  If anything, tell the suppliers of reagents to drop their prices :P

Alright I'm not against the government health care but why can't health care companies cross state lines and compete with other health care companies from a particular state. I mean more competition would decrease the price of healthcare ultimately with out the US government even getting involved in the health care debate.

I'm not in favor of only government run healthcare like some other people are on this thread. I mean I don't want Canada's healthcare system.

Alright I'm not against the government health care but why can't health care companies cross state lines and compete with other health care companies from a particular state. I mean more competition would decrease the price of healthcare ultimately with out the US government even getting involved in the health care debate.


This is a red herring.  What makes you think Company A in New Jersey wants high-risk customers any more than Company B in Connecticut?



It's not that I condone the pharmaceutical lobby, I'm just making the point that medical science costs a f**kload of money and even more time and energy to do right.  If anything, tell the suppliers of reagents to drop their prices :P


Doesn't the government also fund a lot of R&D for pharmaceuticals? 

Doesn't the government also fund a lot of R&D for pharmaceuticals?


I think there's a bunch of government grants, but a lot of it has to be raised privately as venture capital too.  Dunno exact #'s.

I think there's a bunch of government grants, but a lot of it has to be raised privately as venture capital too.  Dunno exact #'s.


Big pharma & co. always use R&D as the reason we can't have affordable drugs.  It's a touchy subject for a lot of people. 

Big pharma & co. always use R&D as the reason we can't have affordable drugs.  It's a touchy subject for a lot of people. 


R&D costs a lot of money to begin with...but you wonder how much of that is cost and how much is provider profit :P

R&D costs a lot of money to begin with...but you wonder how much of that is cost and how much is provider profit :P


Yeah, it ain't exactly like Eli Lilly is a break-even project with the CEO living in a drafty studio apartment!
::)