http://trueslant.com/jeffhoard/2009/06/14/minuteman-group-arrested-for-murdering-family/

A group of Minutemen took some time off from patriotically patrolling the border to conduct their own drug raid in Arivaca, Arizona. During the unofficial raid (where they apparently planned on stealing the victims money and drugs,) they decided the best option was to kill all suspects, including an 8 year-old girl. The mother survived her planned execution and was able to call the police.

yup, some real patriotic folks those Minutemen

Remember about 6 months ago there was a report that right-wing fringe groups would start increasing their ranks and committing violent acts?  Remember the outrage from the usual suspects?  Along with the recent murders in the past month, I'd say that report was 100% on the money so far.

I read about that earlier today.  The minutemen organization is trying to distance itself from her and calling her unstable.  Of course didn't Operation Rescue try and distance itself from the guy that shot and killed Tiller?  No organization that harbors radical violent individuals own up to it.  I think the report was also concerned about those that are lone wolves as they're called.

I'm in the middle on this one.

On the one hand, I don't approve of people committing murders on random families.

On the other hand, I have little sympathy for drug dealers or their ilk.

I'm in the middle on this one.

On the one hand, I don't approve of people committing murders on random families.

On the other hand, I have little sympathy for drug dealers or their ilk.



I agree.

Also, you will have "bad apples" in any group.  Be it law enforcement, military, or paramilitary organizations.

Besides, this was not "Vigilante Justice", this was an outright crime.  It even states they were planning on stealing the drugs and money.  That is not a "Drug Raid", that is a "Home Invasion Robbery'.  I hope the scum are sent to have a visit with Old Sparkey.

I'm in the middle on this one.

On the one hand, I don't approve of people committing murders on random families.

On the other hand, I have little sympathy for drug dealers or their ilk.



I find it hard to believe that you would approve of vigilantism in any way, shape, or form. 

I find it hard to believe that you would approve of vigilantism in any way, shape, or form. 

I don't think he's approving of vigilantism, only that he doesn't feel any sympathy for the victims of it.  Though I find it hard not to feel sympathy for an 8-year-old girl caught up in it :(

I only approve of vigilantism if it's Batman.

I find it rather amusing that in the original article comments, many people who supported or were/are Minutemen were saying that it was Mexican on Mexican violence.  I bet it knocked their smug asses for a loop to find out that it was an ex-member of their illustrious organization.

Still though, I feel terrible that the little girl had to get caught up in such dumbth bullcrap.  Poor kiddo.


I only approve of vigilantism if it's Batman.


Batman would never fail as hard as these dumbasses did.

That story sounds like a decent backdrop for "Training Day 2".

Alonzo: It behoves you not to dick around on this one. Justifiable homicide in the line of duty? What happened was...
Jake: What happened was murder... and armed robbery. Wait, we had badges, so it's different?
Alonzo: Open your eyes, son. Can't you see?
Jake: That man was your friend, and you killed him like a fly.
Alonzo: Why is he my friend, because he knows my first name? Roger sold dope to kids. The world is a better place without him. This man was the biggest major violator in Los Angeles. This is the game. I'm playing his ass. That's my job. That's your job. I watched that c***sucker operate with impunity for over 10 years, and now I got him. The sh*t's chess, it ain't checkers. What, we all of a sudden gonna roll up in a black-and-white? Come on, man, take the money

(from IMDB)

Like Philbo wrote, it's hard to see an 8 year old girl have her life taken in something like this.

Ant

I find it hard to believe that you would approve of vigilantism in any way, shape, or form. 


If you don't like vigilantism, I'm not sure why you have Che Guevara in your avatar.

Anyway, while I do support vigilantism under certain circumstances, I don't support this particular case of it, because of the girl being involved.  Had no children been involved, I still wouldn't have supported it, but it would be much easier for me to say that they had it coming.

From what I've seen of the so-called Minutemen, they're self-righteous, angry, fanatical types; these types tend to be easily corruptible.  I wouldn't chalk his up to bad apples in the organization because there all rotten.  They're right at home with those drug runners.  Birds of a feather. 

I'm sorry an eight-year-old girl had to die.

If you don't like vigilantism, I'm not sure why you have Che Guevara in your avatar.

.


Could as easily be Tom Jefferson, Ben Franklyn or Nathan Hale.  There is a difference between a revolutionary and a thug.

Could as easily be Tom Jefferson, Ben Franklyn or Nathan Hale.  There is a difference between a revolutionary and a thug.


Revolutionaries are usually driven by the urge for a better society.  Thugs are just that . . . thugs.

Could as easily be Tom Jefferson, Ben Franklyn or Nathan Hale.  There is a difference between a revolutionary and a thug.


Yes, and Guevara was a thug.

Yes, and Guevara was a thug.


I was about to ask about that.

Yes, and Guevara was a thug.


Well, he understood imperialists don't stop exploiting your people and stealing your resources if you just say please!

::)

Well, he understood imperialists don't stop exploiting your people and stealing your resources if you just say please!

::)
dude, don't you realize that the great USA won WWII solely by handing out hershey bars to little french kids? absolutely no violence involved.

dude, don't you realize that the great USA won WWII solely by handing out hershey bars to little french kids? absolutely no violence involved.


I took my cue from WWII war stories, took a bunch of Hershey minis to Paris and handed them out to French chicks,  but then I didn't get laid!  Got beat up 11 times though!  It worked for Grandpa, why not me?

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/buck.gif

Yes, and Guevara was a thug.


http://www.wpclipart.com/sign_language/thumbs_up.png

Why anybody would have any sympathy for these people is beyond me, but I suppose it's the same compulsion towards the disorderly that allows people to justify the actions of mercenaries like Che Guevara.
Felix Rodriguez should be on t-shirts, not a Bolshevik murderer like Guevara.

dude, don't you realize that the great USA won WWII solely by handing out hershey bars to little french kids? absolutely no violence involved.


Our violence was certainly more productive than that of Guevara.  That is, unless you like the thought of living under a Communist regime.


http://www.wpclipart.com/sign_language/thumbs_up.png

Why anybody would have any sympathy for these people is beyond me, but I suppose it's the same compulsion towards the disorderly that allows people to justify the actions of mercenaries like Che Guevara.
Felix Rodriguez should be on t-shirts, not a Bolshevik murderer like Guevara.


No kidding.  But I guess each political side has its own misconceptions of historical figures.  The Left adores Guevara, while the Right adores McCarthy.

http://www.wpclipart.com/sign_language/thumbs_up.png

Why anybody would have any sympathy for these people is beyond me, but I suppose it's the same compulsion towards the disorderly that allows people to justify the actions of mercenaries like Che Guevara.
Felix Rodriguez should be on t-shirts, not a Bolshevik murderer like Guevara.


Yeah, he's a pretty okay relief pitcher for Camden!  Go F-Rod!
8)

dude, don't you realize that the great USA won WWII solely by handing out hershey bars to little french kids? absolutely no violence involved.


So that's how they could paid to have Hershey Park built.  War profiteering.  The USA doesn't ransack them bomb the hell out of your country.  The kids get candy.  French pay big bucks the keep their country from going up in smoke.  Hershey gets a profit.  *shakes head*  You'll never hear it mentioned in history books. :(

Revolutions are always legal in the first person, ie,"our revolution", its only in the second person that they are illlegal, as in "their revolution".  And certainly, if you want to make an omelet you gotta break a few eggs. 
Yes, and Guevara was a thug.


If by that you mean he was not very kind to Batista's followers ok, but then Batista wasn't very kind to Fidelistas either.  War is hell.

Revolutions are always legal in the first person, ie,"our revolution", its only in the second person that they are illlegal, as in "their revolution".  And certainly, if you want to make an omelet you gotta break a few eggs. 
If by that you mean he was not very kind to Batista's followers ok, but then Batista wasn't very kind to Fidelistas either.  War is hell.


From what I heard Batista was fond of putting people who didn't agree with him in severe pain.  He too was a thug, however he had the cover of power.

Revolutions are always legal in the first person, ie,"our revolution", its only in the second person that they are illlegal, as in "their revolution".  And certainly, if you want to make an omelet you gotta break a few eggs. 
If by that you mean he was not very kind to Batista's followers ok, but then Batista wasn't very kind to Fidelistas either.  War is hell.


Then you approve of vigilantism in some cases just like I do.

Most people have a certain tolerance for it, it's just where that tolerance lies that differs from person to person.

Then you approve of vigilantism in some cases just like I do.

Most people have a certain tolerance for it, it's just where that tolerance lies that differs from person to person.


Vigilantism and revolution are not, to my mind, the same thing.  Revolutions typically confront an implacable status quo with a program for radical change (and Fidel's initial goals were not that radical).  Vigilantism is mindless, as in the lynching of blacks for perceived offenses by enraged mobs. 


From what I heard Batista was fond of putting people who didn't agree with him in severe pain.  He too was a thug, however he had the cover of power.


As in most Spanish colonial ports, there is a fortress guarding Havana harbor.  Batista's secret police used it as headquarters.  The nearby waters harbored an unusually large shark population, and they often were stained red. 

Vigilantism and revolution are not, to my mind, the same thing.  Revolutions typically confront an implacable status quo with a program for radical change (and Fidel's initial goals were not that radical).  Vigilantism is mindless, as in the lynching of blacks for perceived offenses by enraged mobs. 


And how about the mindless lynching (sorry, "stand-against-the-wall-machine-gunning") of the new leaders once the revolution is completed?

Iraq, Iran, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Cuba, Somalia, the list goes on and on.  Pretty much when the new group takes charge, huge numbers are sentenced to death for simply having been in the prior government, supported the former government, or sometimes even just been a family member of somebody in the former government.

That is pretty much the same thing.  Except most of the people killed are not really criminals, just on the wrong side of a power struggle.

The Left adores Guevara, while the Right adores McCarthy.


You could probably add George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Winston Churchill to the list of historical figures who receive more adoration than they should.

There's a saying that goes "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

You could probably add George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Winston Churchill to the list of historical figures who receive more adoration than they should.

There's a saying that goes "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."


The difference is that George went on to become a willing relinquisher of power after his time as president ended.  Guevara was clearly on a power trip (as was Castro).

And how about the mindless lynching (sorry, "stand-against-the-wall-machine-gunning") of the new leaders once the revolution is completed?

Iraq, Iran, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Cuba, Somalia, the list goes on and on.  Pretty much when the new group takes charge, huge numbers are sentenced to death for simply having been in the prior government, supported the former government, or sometimes even just been a family member of somebody in the former government.

That is pretty much the same thing.  Except most of the people killed are not really criminals, just on the wrong side of a power struggle.


The comparisons here are just loony.  Pol Pot killed millions, Castro executed a few hundred at most, all after relatively fair trials showed them to be torturers and/or murderers.  And by the way, no prisoners of war were killed or tortured by Castro, to the great consternation of Batista's generals.

The comparisons here are just loony.  Pol Pot killed millions, Castro executed a few hundred at most, all after relatively fair trials showed them to be torturers and/or murderers.  And by the way, no prisoners of war were killed or tortured by Castro, to the great consternation of Batista's generals.


I beg to differ, Castro and his cronies are amongst some of the worst murderers in the history of the Americas.

It's a shame he was never assassinated, then perhaps Cuba would have been free.

I'd bring your attention to the Canimar River Massacre, the two planes that the Cuban Air Force shot down in international waters, the campaigns of murder that followed the seizure of the island, the mass graves at the foot of San Juan Hill, the further massacres in Santiago, I could continue.

I beg to differ, Castro and his cronies are amongst some of the worst murderers in the history of the Americas.

It's a shame he was never assassinated, then perhaps Cuba would have been free.

I'd bring your attention to the Canimar River Massacre, the two planes that the Cuban Air Force shot down in international waters, the campaigns of murder that followed the seizure of the island, the mass graves at the foot of San Juan Hill, the further massacres in Santiago, I could continue.


You could get your own Angry White Man program on Clear Channel.
::)

You could get your own Angry White Man program on Clear Channel.
::)


Why, because I'm capable of reading both sides of history?

I'm sorry, I forgot the true version of events. Reagan went back in time and just farked it all up, because he's to blame for everything, right?  ;)

Why, because I'm capable of reading both sides of history?



Because you're an angry white man.

Because you're an angry white man.


Dude, I'm not angry, I just crushed my knee and have a bunch of Percocet. I'm the exact opposite of angry.

The comparisons here are just loony.  Pol Pot killed millions, Castro executed a few hundred at most, all after relatively fair trials showed them to be torturers and/or murderers.  And by the way, no prisoners of war were killed or tortured by Castro, to the great consternation of Batista's generals.


Well, this is from the Wikipedia article:

Hundreds of suspected Batista-era agents, policemen and soldiers were put on public trial for human rights abuses and war crimes, including murder and torture. Most of those convicted in revolutionary tribunals of political crimes were executed by firing squad, and the rest received long prison sentences. One of the most notorious examples of revolutionary justice was the executions of over 70 captured Batista regime soldiers, directed by Raúl Castro after capturing Santiago.

Which makes me wonder.  If the Revolutionary Tribunals are fair justice, then what reason does anybody have to complain about when they suggest trying the people held at Gitmo under a US Military Tribunal?

And "Prisoners Of War" really does not apply in a revolution.  By definition, all prisoners then are political prisoners, not POWs.  That involves a foreign nation.  And the treatment of Political Prisoners in Cuba is horrible, and well known.

http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm

Dude, I'm not angry, I just crushed my knee and have a bunch of Percocet. I'm the exact opposite of angry.


Oh man, sorry about the knee!  That's gotta hurt like a sonofabitch!  Well, that's what Percs are for!

Oh man, sorry about the knee!  That's gotta hurt like a sonofabitch!  Well, that's what Percs are for!




Truck meets dock plate - My knee in the way. Percocet is the key and I'm as far from angry as Rose Kennedy was from a non-black dress.

Truck meets dock plate - My knee in the way. Percocet is the key and I'm as far from angry as Rose Kennedy was from a non-black dress.

Ouch.. what's the prognosis?  Best of luck, whatever.