So...let's hear from the political heads in CA. why they won;'t even CONSIDER cutting 'aid and programs' for ILLEGALS!

There's your 'hidden money to solve some of the money problems....do I hear a 'NO WAY'?(rhetorical reply)

Now you see where they stand!

I'm jut saying...

So...let's hear from the political heads in CA. why they won;'t even CONSIDER cutting 'aid and programs' for ILLEGALS!

There's your 'hidden money to solve some of the money problems....do I hear a 'NO WAY'?(rhetorical reply)

Now you see where they stand!

I'm jut saying...



as usual... you're not reallly saying anything...

So...let's hear from the political heads in CA. why they won;'t even CONSIDER cutting 'aid and programs' for ILLEGALS!

There's your 'hidden money to solve some of the money problems....do I hear a 'NO WAY'?(rhetorical reply)

Now you see where they stand!

I'm jut saying...



You're an idiot.

Heh.

So...let's hear from the political heads in CA. why they won;'t even CONSIDER cutting 'aid and programs' for ILLEGALS!

There's your 'hidden money to solve some of the money problems....do I hear a 'NO WAY'?(rhetorical reply)

Now you see where they stand!

I'm jut saying...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)

Do some research before posting. ::)

Wikipedia isn't bringing it up.  Google it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)

Do some research before posting. ::)

Wikipedia isn't bringing it up.  Google it.


You missed the final ) off your link somehow

You're an idiot.

He's got a point though.  Why pay for people that aren't even part of the system?

By the way, Dick Mountjoy is one hell of a name.

He's got a point though.  Why pay for people that aren't even part of the system?

By the way, Dick Mountjoy is one hell of a name.


I'm not talking about his viewpoints, because I can barely understand them.  He's an idiot because he comes on here, posts a bunch of ill formed sentences, then expects people to either applaud or argue with him.

Now that other people have posted, I can only assume he's bitching about illegals again, which is territory I won't go into because I'll just wind up banned.

For the record, the state of California is cutting all social aid for EVERYONE because the state government f*cked up badly, so saver should be jizzing at the knowledge that his hated enemies (read: immigrants) will not be getting anything....along with everyone else who depended on or leeched off the system.

I'm not talking about his viewpoints, because I can barely understand them.  He's an idiot because he comes on here, posts a bunch of ill formed sentences, then expects people to either applaud or argue with him.

Now that other people have posted, I can only assume he's bitching about illegals again, which is territory I won't go into because I'll just wind up banned.

For the record, the state of California is cutting all social aid for EVERYONE because the state government f*cked up badly, so saver should be jizzing at the knowledge that his hated enemies (read: immigrants) will not be getting anything....along with everyone else who depended on or leeched off the system.


Ah...  well, I don't want to see you banned, but I am curious as to what your stance on illegal immigration is.

I'm with Jess... saver never comes in with a clear argument for whatever it is he is trying to "argue"

He expects people to feel how he does so, I suppose, since we think the same way the structure must be clearly obvious to us... its not...

Just once I'd like to see him come in. Make a statement and then back it up with facts... or if he's gonna go the emotional route... then he needs to say I feel this way because.... but this post and run crap he does is total BS....

This illegal immigration crap is total racist bs... we're not talking about building walls along the Canadian border....we're not running around deporting people from Europe... seems to me- whenever someone talks about illegals all they are ever talking about are the people who live south of the border...  ::)

This illegal immigration crap is total racist bs... we're not talking about building walls along the Canadian border....we're not running around deporting people from Europe... seems to me- whenever someone talks about illegals all they are ever talking about are the people who live south of the border...  ::)




If Canadians were more commonly crossing the border to work as cheap labor, were connected to massive drug cartels, and were burdening our social systems without paying into them, yeah, you'd see Lou Dobbs bitching about them instead of Mexicans.

Some people hide behind illegal immigration issues to further racism, but plenty of others are simply looking at the crime and financial issues.

So, it's NOT total racist bs.

If Canadians were more commonly crossing the border to work as cheap labor, were connected to massive drug cartels, and were burdening our social systems without paying into them, yeah, you'd see Lou Dobbs bitching about them instead of Mexicans.

Some people hide behind illegal immigration issues to further racism, but plenty of others are simply looking at the crime and financial issues.

So, it's NOT total racist bs.


how many americans are really looking to work the jobs the illegals are "taking from them" and sorry but the US has its own issues of crime and drugs without blaming immigration...  there are bigger problems in this country.

how many americans are really looking to work the jobs the illegals are "taking from them" and sorry but the US has its own issues of crime and drugs without blaming immigration...  there are bigger problems in this country.


First, while illegals take many jobs that others would not choose to do, this is becoming less and less true as the economy worsens.  More people are willing to do the jobs they used to scoff at as they become more desperate for work.

Second, just because illegals are willing to do work that employers don't pay enough for, that doesn't make breaking the law right.  Employers of illegals should be prosecuted, but obviously, neither party pushes for that.

Third, while we have plenty of crime and drugs, several American cities have taken a major hit in crime rates due to Mexican drug cartels and gangs.

Phoenix has become the #2 kidnapping capital of the world mostly due to groups like MS-13.  Not surprisingly, the #1 city is Mexico City.

So again, the focus on Mexico is warranted.

First, while illegals take many jobs that others would not choose to do, this is becoming less and less true as the economy worsens.  More people are willing to do the jobs they used to scoff at as they become more desperate for work.

Second, just because illegals are willing to do work that employers don't pay enough for, that doesn't make breaking the law right.  Employers of illegals should be prosecuted, but obviously, neither party pushes for that.

Third, while we have plenty of crime and drugs, several American cities have taken a major hit in crime rates due to Mexican drug cartels and gangs.

Phoenix has become the #2 kidnapping capital of the world mostly due to groups like MS-13.  Not surprisingly, the #1 city is Mexico City.

So again, the focus on Mexico is warranted.


yeah its easy to spin things for your side... seriously.... there are still bigger things to deal with than illegals...

yeah its easy to spin things for your side... seriously.... there are still bigger things to deal with than illegals...




Snoz, I'm using facts and logic here.  This isn't about spin.  Seriously, you made a claim, and this is my rebuttal.  If you don't believe me, why not make a counterargument?

Snoz, I'm using facts and logic here.  This isn't about spin.  Seriously, you made a claim, and this is my rebuttal.  If you don't believe me, why not make a counterargument?


because I don't buy it... I'm not gonna turn a talk about illegal immigrants into a talk about Mexican Mafia... its ridiculous... they make up such a small portion of the people we are talking about... and I don't think illegal immigration is that big of an issue... I am annoyed by people blowing it up into this huge thing when there are more important things draining the economy and bringing down society as we know it...

because I don't buy it... I'm not gonna turn a talk about illegal immigrants into a talk about Mexican Mafia... its ridiculous... they make up such a small portion of the people we are talking about... and I don't think illegal immigration is that big of an issue... I am annoyed by people blowing it up into this huge thing when there are more important things draining the economy and bringing down society as we know it...


While the Mexican gangs and cartels are a minority of the illegals, that doesn't render their influence negligible.  CNN recently had a pretty good article about the spread of their power in America over the last decade.  I'll see if I can find it.

I think illegal immigration is actually one of our biggest issues today.  The reason why is because of the cost of illegals on our system -- mostly in reference to healthcare.

There are multiple things affecting our economy, but illegals are a significant part of it.

You're an idiot.


Oh right, an IDIOT for FINDING a partial solution and calling it like it is.

There is plenty of money that programs are using to support and give to illegals and here if you add up just how much you would garner from it..you want to see jobs and money appear.

Eat your crow!

as usual... you're not reallly saying anything...


Sorry but this time I got you!

(I recall you may be from CA..if you're in LA tonight-maybe onliine as well- on 870KRLA you can tune into the KEVIN JAMES show 9pm.)
He's already filled 2-3 hours on how this applies..so what am I not saying...SCHOOLING, LICENSING PROGRAMS,CHILD CARE AND OTHER EXTRAS that are goig to illegal has a mountain of money to reap in without hurting the legal residents who are losing their jobs and houses.

He takes calls and challenges as well. He also has a legal background and knows where there are holes in the system and who's covering them up...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2009/05/world/map.mexican.cartels/index.html

This was the map that I was looking for.  It's a good starting point for understanding the influence of Mexican drug cartels in the U.S.  It's actually pretty interesting looking at the connections between each city and the different cartels.  Disturbing, but interesting....

Sorry but this time I got you!

(I recall you may be from CA..if you're in LA tonight-maybe onliine as well- on 870KRLA you can tune into the KEVIN JAMES show 9pm.)
He's already filled 2-3 hours on how this applies..so what am I not saying...SCHOOLING, LICENSING PROGRAMS,CHILD CARE AND OTHER EXTRAS that are goig to illegal has a mountain of money to reap in without hurting the legal residents who are losing their jobs and houses.

He takes calls and challenges as well. He also has a legal background and knows where there are holes in the system and who's covering them up...


The King of Queens?  :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)

Do some research before posting. ::)

Wikipedia isn't bringing it up.  Google it.


Bringing WHAT up the state has a budget crisis and just proposed having students take a 90 minute bus ride to school or walk 3 miies after they cut the route to some.

And by now the whole country may have heard most summer school is eliminated. And figure the drop out rates no one has helped .

The King of Queens?  :o


yep...he's my go to source for all the really important political issues  ::)

Bringing WHAT up the state has a budget crisis and just proposed having students take a 90 minute bus ride to school or walk 3 miies after they cut the route to some.

And by now the whole country may have heard most summer school is eliminated. And figure the drop out rates no one has helped .


Don't blame the whole budget crisis on immigration.  It takes 3/4 majority to pass a budget which they rarely ever get.  Walking three miles is nothing, perhaps it would curb childhood obesity if kids exercised.  What the hell does summer school have to do with anything.  BTW white kids drop out too.  

Sorry but this time I got you!

(I recall you may be from CA..if you're in LA tonight-maybe onliine as well- on 870KRLA you can tune into the KEVIN JAMES show 9pm.)
He's already filled 2-3 hours on how this applies..so what am I not saying...SCHOOLING, LICENSING PROGRAMS,CHILD CARE AND OTHER EXTRAS that are goig to illegal has a mountain of money to reap in without hurting the legal residents who are losing their jobs and houses.

He takes calls and challenges as well. He also has a legal background and knows where there are holes in the system and who's covering them up...


not interested enough to listen to that crap...


but I think it is i who have you... because what I said was you said nothing....


You pose a question:


So...let's hear from the political heads in CA. why they won;'t even CONSIDER cutting 'aid and programs' for ILLEGALS!



Instead of answering it or expanding on it you make some random statement... but connect it to nothing else:


There's your 'hidden money to solve some of the money problems....do I hear a 'NO WAY'?(rhetorical reply)



and from that random statement we are supposed to draw a conclusion... engage in dialogue with you? what?


Now you see where they stand!






I'm jut saying...



as usual.... you've said nothing!

Don't blame the whole budget crisis on immigration.  It takes 3/4 majority to pass a budget which they rarely ever get.  Walking three miles is nothing, perhaps it would curb childhood obesity if kids exercised.  What the hell does summer school have to do with anything.  BTW white kids drop out too.  


there's my back up! luv ya girl!

how many americans are really looking to work the jobs the illegals are "taking from them" and sorry but the US has its own issues of crime and drugs without blaming immigration...  there are bigger problems in this country.


Maybe I haven't lost jobs to illegals and OK..(Get ready for how I feel)..No, not just southern illegals, all should be dealt with..but my beef is the law should make those who are hiring them pay the prices...BUT I am also against the crime factor..and THAT will not be solved as long as drugs are a top commodity..

Something should be done..but our hands are tied and so as to saying how I feel, it will go 2 ways..people will agree other will not.
So therefore, my open ended comments are intended to make people think and talk.
I am on no campaign for anyone to think like me but you may dig deep and say..good subject..now what?

I know snoz may be expecting more from me..but I took this(maybe I am wrong on the purpose of an open forum)as a formay to speak out..and converse...or CHAT as a group...If I am trying to push any points, my stage should be TV or radio.

I have been checking the site not to chat but hear the group discussions.

Snoz, I'm using facts and logic here.  This isn't about spin.  Seriously, you made a claim, and this is my rebuttal.  If you don't believe me, why not make a counterargument?


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU..MAC...

I left an insight as to my drop in..so now I'm figuring 'some' may want to have a listof speaking points-ie..why people are picking on illegals  when there are other thing..well the other thing may also include the sneaking white collar crime people as well and they are being dealt with also.

yep...he's my go to source for all the really important political issues  ::)


He is one of the many who digs into the issues rather than accept what the national media or wherever you get your info from...
Did you know they had a 'real' puppetshow take place in a political meetiing recently...DON'T THEY HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO?
But Kevin brings the news up and drops in ideas to deal with how to make the city better.

Who do you follow the mayor and his cronies?
LA just got a new player for City Attorney to expose the waste the current leaders are participating in.

You won;t hear it on local news. 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU..MAC...

I left an insight as to my drop in..so now I'm figuring 'some' may want to have a listof speaking points-ie..why people are picking on illegals  when there are other thing..well the other thing may also include the sneaking white collar crime people as well and they are being dealt with also.


I may not like what MacPhisto says but at least he can write a his opinions in a straightforward manner that's easy to follow... you need to read your posts before you submit and make sure that there is a clear thought process there... 

cuz what you just wrote makes little to no sense.... 

Don't blame the whole budget crisis on immigration.  It takes 3/4 majority to pass a budget which they rarely ever get.  Walking three miles is nothing, perhaps it would curb childhood obesity if kids exercised.  What the hell does summer school have to do with anything.  BTW white kids drop out too.  


Yes that is also considered..nothing was said the 'whole' budget would be solved..also..but it's a local issue..you don't hear the mayor cutting anyof his staff but everyone else is needing to cut workers out of the scene.

He is one of the many who digs into the issues rather than accept what the national media or wherever you get your info from...
Did you know they had a 'real' puppetshow take place in a political meetiing recently...DON'T THEY HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO?
But Kevin brings the news up and drops in ideas to deal with how to make the city better.

Who do you follow the mayor and his cronies?
LA just got a new player for City Attorney to expose the waste the current leaders are participating in.

You won;t hear it on local news. 


I follow myself... I don't need the idiot machine feeding me crap.  or as 3rd bass said "I got a strong mind it doesn't have to be spoon fed; and I can read it doesn't have to be read"

Yes that is also considered..nothing was said the 'whole' budget would be solved..also..but it's a local issue..you don't hear the mayor cutting anyof his staff but everyone else is needing to cut workers out of the scene.




Local is tied in with the whole budget.  Local taxes never cover everything, most of the time state and federal funding covers over half of a local budget.   BTW just for clarification . . . what mayor are you talking about?  It seems you have a problem with a regional issue and not the state as a whole.

Local is tied in with the whole budget.  Local taxes never cover everything, must of the time state and federal funding covers over half of a local budget.   BTW just for clarification . . . what mayor are you talking about?  It seems you have a problem with a regional issue and not the state as a whole.


excellent point... unless the mayor of LA is more powerful than the governor  ::) 

excellent point... unless the mayor of LA is more powerful than the governor  ::) 


More powerful than Arnold. :o 

More powerful than Arnold. :o 


I think only Maria is more powerful than Ah-nuld!  ;D

I follow myself... I don't need the idiot machine feeding me crap.  or as 3rd bass said "I got a strong mind it doesn't have to be spoon fed; and I can read it doesn't have to be read"


There was a question asked why the politicians didn't look to aid to the illegals.

The whole state has the money crisis and the LA mayor has not brought up cutting staff jobs.

Around the state and the ILLEGAL issues continue after the LA TIMES headlines recently read how sanctuary city is now offering programs to the illegals like sister city San Fran.

Great more programs for iillegal law breakers while the 'whole state' needs help-not just local LA.

And this topic continues as State Represenative Gil Sadillo is behind a bill up for vote soon, to award drivers licenses to illegals.

As Jessica, and others may like sites I also get fodder for discussion..let me direct you to:  www.NumbersUsa.com
They give out news on who's doing what to combat some of the issues regarding moves to assist or make things known on the illegal front.
Like:  http://tinyurl.com/mpay8q

They will also alert you with regular emails on who's  doing what in immiigration news.(like the story of the License issuing).

There, now you have a site with news to discuss. 

excellent point... unless the mayor of LA is more powerful than the governor  ::)  


Haven't you learned from politics now the/a Governor has no real power...the board controls his moves.

There was a question asked why the politicians didn't look to aid to the illegals.

The whole state has the money crisis and the LA mayor has not brought up cutting staff jobs.

Around the state and the ILLEGAL issues continue after the LA TIMES headlines recently read how sanctuary city is now offering programs to the illegals like sister city San Fran.

Great more programs for iillegal law breakers while the 'whole state' needs help-not just local LA.

And this topic continues as State Represenative Gil Sadillo is behind a bill up for vote soon, to award drivers licenses to illegals.

As Jessica, and others may like sites I also get fodder for discussion..let me direct you to:  www.NumbersUsa.com
They give out news on who's doing what to combat some of the issues regarding moves to assist or make things known on the illegal front.
Like:  http://tinyurl.com/mpay8q

They will also alert you with regular emails on who's  doing what in immiigration news.(like the story of the License issuing).

There, now you have a site with news to discuss.   



I'm going to ask you a question.  Being that it is California is it only the stereotypical "Mexican" immigrant that you have a problem with or is it anyone from another country?  Illegal immigration in the U.S. comes from more places than just Mexico.

I'm going to ask you a question.  Being that it is California is it only the stereotypical "Mexican" immigrant that you have a problem with or is it anyone from another country?  Illegal immigration in the U.S. comes from more places than just Mexico.


No, I may have addressed this in 'years ago' posts..any illegals are in this category...I'm sure there are numbers that break down how many illegals are from wherever...so talk for now is geared to those abusing our system and as I am a CA resident..I don't want to break down the numbers and say 'Hey, I know some great illegal Africans!

I play by the rules and cringe when they are bent or abused when others who CAN do somethiing look away.

(If I didn't answer earlier-time for posting ran out when I was addressing how I felt those who were 'hiring' illegals should equally be punished to learn a lesson...but for those with no jobs,sneaky illegals not renewing VISA'S etc..and just living here to use our freebies, they get them and the US legal residents lose AND the US also loses as 'illegals' can ALSO use their own country's servicesor are available for them...

It's been said here over and over and in forums on the topic, so I just put the news out and leave people open to think, not ask me what I will do..maybe others have more influence..

 

No, I may have addressed this in 'years ago' posts..any illegals are in this category...I'm sure there are numbers that break down how many illegals are from wherever...so talk for now is geared to those abusing our system and as I am a CA resident..I don't want to break down the numbers and say 'Hey, I know some great illegal Africans!

I play by the rules and cringe when they are bent or abused when others who CAN do somethiing look away.

(If I didn't answer earlier-time for posting ran out when I was addressing how I felt those who were 'hiring' illegals should equally be punished to learn a lesson...but for those with no jobs,sneaky illegals not renewing VISA'S etc..and just living here to use our freebies, they get them and the US legal residents lose AND the US also loses as 'illegals' can ALSO use their own country's servicesor are available for them...

It's been said here over and over and in forums on the topic, so I just put the news out and leave people open to think, not ask me what I will do..maybe others have more influence..

 


Most people in America come from an "illegal immigration" background in one way or another.  Even those who are descended from the Mayflower voyage.  Also in most states you need proof of identity that is government issued in order to get those U.S. freebies.  Being that they have no green card it's not exactly easy to get a Social Security card or a state ID in most states.  Most people who hire illegal immigrants do so because they don't want to have to pay employee health insurance or deal with providing a 401k.  Illegals are much easier to exploit.  They can also use their own countries services?  How does that work?  Wouldn't there be a risk of disclosure and possible deportation?

Most people in America come from an "illegal immigration" background in one way or another.  Even those who are descended from the Mayflower voyage.  Also in most states you need proof of identity that is government issued in order to get those U.S. freebies.  Being that they have no green card it's not exactly easy to get a Social Security card or a state ID in most states.  Most people who hire illegal immigrants do so because they don't want to have to pay employee health insurance or deal with providing a 401k.  Illegals are much easier to exploit.  They can also use their own countries services?  How does that work?  Wouldn't there be a risk of disclosure and possible deportation?


What is becoming a common practice now is the usage of other people's SS numbers.  Identity theft is easy enough in other avenues of life (like credit), so SS numbers really aren't as hard to come by as you would think.

What we're seeing now is a combination of the vulnerability of our information systems and the complete lack of concern for national or financial security coming from employers of illegals.

If anything, the best way to slow down illegal immigration is to prosecute employers of illegals.  If the jobs for illegals dry up, then less illegals will come here looking for work.

What is becoming a common practice now is the usage of other people's SS numbers.  Identity theft is easy enough in other avenues of life (like credit), so SS numbers really aren't as hard to come by as you would think.

What we're seeing now is a combination of the vulnerability of our information systems and the complete lack of concern for national or financial security coming from employers of illegals.

If anything, the best way to slow down illegal immigration is to prosecute employers of illegals.  If the jobs for illegals dry up, then less illegals will come here looking for work.


I wonder if anyone has made the mistake of using an opposite sexes S.S. number?  Those numbers aren't just random.  I think it also suggest the year a person was born too.  If that's the case than Wal-Mart and McDonald's are doomed.

They can also use their own countries services?  How does that work?  Wouldn't there be a risk of disclosure and possible deportation?

Not hard to figure, they work here(maybe paid under the table, or have kids and get the medical treatment), then return to their country and get benefits or claim them as well.

I'm not talking about his viewpoints, because I can barely understand them.  He's an idiot because he comes on here, posts a bunch of ill formed sentences, then expects people to either applaud or argue with him.

Now that other people have posted, I can only assume he's bitching about illegals again, which is territory I won't go into because I'll just wind up banned.

For the record, the state of California is cutting all social aid for EVERYONE because the state government f*cked up badly, so saver should be jizzing at the knowledge that his hated enemies (read: immigrants) will not be getting anything....along with everyone else who depended on or leeched off the system.


It's a Lou Dobbs word salad!
:D

Most people in America come from an "illegal immigration" background in one way or another.  Even those who are descended from the Mayflower voyage.  Also in most states you need proof of identity that is government issued in order to get those U.S. freebies.  Being that they have no green card it's not exactly easy to get a Social Security card or a state ID in most states.  Most people who hire illegal immigrants do so because they don't want to have to pay employee health insurance or deal with providing a 401k.  Illegals are much easier to exploit.  They can also use their own countries services?  How does that work?  Wouldn't there be a risk of disclosure and possible deportation?


Where do you get that from?  For most of this nation's history, there was no restriction on immigration at all.  And for those that came here before 1776, there was no nation (or multiple nations) in charge.

And in most states, you simply have to apply.  And the documents are not hard to get, with the rampant forgery that is going on.

I remember getting a letter years ago from the IRS.  They demanded that my stepdaughter pay her back taxes, something like $65,000.  Seems that she was working in California, Utah, Texas, Florida, and New York.  All at the same time.  She was 6 years old at the time.


I wonder if anyone has made the mistake of using an opposite sexes S.S. number?  Those numbers aren't just random.  I think it also suggest the year a person was born too.  If that's the case than Wal-Mart and McDonald's are doomed.


It does not matter.  You see, it is illegal to actually verify if a Social Security card is actually valid.  You can put in any numbers you want.  The IRS will not care, as long as the taxes are paid.  Nor will SSI care if the number is good or not.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)

Do some research before posting. ::)

Wikipedia isn't bringing it up.  Google it.


The problem is that 187 was pretty much thrown out.  The first stay was put in place something like 48 hours after it was voted in.  And it never came into effect.

The idea was simple.  Any time a person applied for a state program (college, public schools, welfare, etc), they had to give proof they were a citizen, or legal resident.  Services were not to be denied, the person was simply reported to INS if they were found to not be legal residents.

But that was found to be "racist". 

Of course, my wife was a strong supporter of the bill.  And she is even harder then I am about illegal immigration.  She feels like me, in that people should come in the country legally.  And if they do not, should do everything in their power to make themselves legal (there are constantly various amnesty programs going on).

There is no excuse for those that live here for years illegally.  Other then they do not really want to be part of America.  They only want to sponge off of it and give nothing back.

It does not matter.  You see, it is illegal to actually verify if a Social Security card is actually valid.  You can put in any numbers you want.  The IRS will not care, as long as the taxes are paid.  Nor will SSI care if the number is good or not.

...which is one of the best arguments for ending SS.  The system is clearly run to suck up money more than it is to actually serve society.

Where do you get that from?  For most of this nation's history, there was no restriction on immigration at all.  And for those that came here before 1776, there was no nation (or multiple nations) in charge.

And in most states, you simply have to apply.  And the documents are not hard to get, with the rampant forgery that is going on.

I remember getting a letter years ago from the IRS.  They demanded that my stepdaughter pay her back taxes, something like $65,000.  Seems that she was working in California, Utah, Texas, Florida, and New York.  All at the same time.  She was 6 years old at the time.

It does not matter.  You see, it is illegal to actually verify if a Social Security card is actually valid.  You can put in any numbers you want.  The IRS will not care, as long as the taxes are paid.  Nor will SSI care if the number is good or not.

The problem is that 187 was pretty much thrown out.  The first stay was put in place something like 48 hours after it was voted in.  And it never came into effect.

The idea was simple.  Any time a person applied for a state program (college, public schools, welfare, etc), they had to give proof they were a citizen, or legal resident.  Services were not to be denied, the person was simply reported to INS if they were found to not be legal residents.

But that was found to be "racist". 

Of course, my wife was a strong supporter of the bill.  And she is even harder then I am about illegal immigration.  She feels like me, in that people should come in the country legally.  And if they do not, should do everything in their power to make themselves legal (there are constantly various amnesty programs going on).

There is no excuse for those that live here for years illegally.  Other then they do not really want to be part of America.  They only want to sponge off of it and give nothing back.


Many people were denied entry into Ellis Island.  There were regulations put on immigration during various times in history.  Quotas to be exact.  Only so many from a country.  This is the reason why part of my family's blood line is still in Europe.  No excuse for being illegal.  Tell cooperate America that.  How easy it is to say they only want to sponge off America and not give back, downright harsh actually.  Many an immigrant have given back to American Society.

Many people were denied entry into Ellis Island.  There were regulations put on immigration during various times in history.  Quotas to be exact.  Only so many from a country.  This is the reason why part of my family's blood line is still in Europe.  No excuse for being illegal.  Tell cooperate America that.  How easy it is to say they only want to sponge off America and not give back, downright harsh actually.  Many an immigrant have given back to American Society.


Hmmm, Ellis Island was open from 1 January 1892, until 12 November 1954.  That is 62 years.  Out of 233 years of this nation's existance.  And out of those that arrived on the island, only 2% were refused entry.  The vast majority of those were for disease, criminal records, and insanity.

In fact, there were no checks on immigration at all until 1882.  Before then, anybody that showed up here was welcome.  And that act in 1882 only affected Chinese immigrants for a period of 10 years.  And even this did not stop immigration, it only reduced it to roughly half of what it was before.  Everybody else was still welcome without reservation.  Ellis Island was created as a quarantine and control point.  And with a rejection rate of under 2%, it is obvious that not many were refused admission.

And by the way, my wife is an immigrant.  And at one time, she was an illegal immigrant.  Her father had told her for years her visa had been extended, when it had not been (he never applied, being afraid of Argentina death squads).  But within a year of discovering the truth, she had her resident alien card.

And while they may be distastefull, there are legitimate reasons for quotas.  What if 50 million Chinese suddenly wanted to immigrate to the US?  Or 10 million from North Korea?  This country can only absorb so many new immigrants each year.  Because ultimately the idea is for them to blend into the US culture.  To much immigration of a group causes ghettoization, which is a huge disfavor to the immigrants because it blocks them from meaningfull progression in this country.

Many people were denied entry into Ellis Island.  There were regulations put on immigration during various times in history.  Quotas to be exact.  Only so many from a country.  This is the reason why part of my family's blood line is still in Europe.  No excuse for being illegal.  Tell cooperate America that.  How easy it is to say they only want to sponge off America and not give back, downright harsh actually.  Many an immigrant have given back to American Society.


The Chinese Exclusion Act is a good example of restriction on immigration based on race.

However, we've essentially gone in the opposite direction with our current policies.  I'd prefer a happy medium of requiring language proficiency, education, and wealth.  That way, no claims of racism could be made -- although it would undoubtedly be classist (but practical).

Hmmm, Ellis Island was open from 1 January 1892, until 12 November 1954.  That is 62 years.  Out of 233 years of this nation's existance.  And out of those that arrived on the island, only 2% were refused entry.  The vast majority of those were for disease, criminal records, and insanity.

In fact, there were no checks on immigration at all until 1882.  Before then, anybody that showed up here was welcome.  And that act in 1882 only affected Chinese immigrants for a period of 10 years.  And even this did not stop immigration, it only reduced it to roughly half of what it was before.  Everybody else was still welcome without reservation.  Ellis Island was created as a quarantine and control point.  And with a rejection rate of under 2%, it is obvious that not many were refused admission.

And by the way, my wife is an immigrant.  And at one time, she was an illegal immigrant.  Her father had told her for years her visa had been extended, when it had not been (he never applied, being afraid of Argentina death squads).  But within a year of discovering the truth, she had her resident alien card.

And while they may be distastefull, there are legitimate reasons for quotas.  What if 50 million Chinese suddenly wanted to immigrate to the US?  Or 10 million from North Korea?  This country can only absorb so many new immigrants each year.  Because ultimately the idea is for them to blend into the US culture.  To much immigration of a group causes ghettoization, which is a huge disfavor to the immigrants because it blocks them from meaningfull progression in this country.


There were quotas pertaining to Ellis Island.  It was more than 2%.  Frequently whole ships were told to turn around and go back.  (Some simply redocked somewhere else)  I have a friend who came from Cuba.  She went the route of Citezenship.  It took her quite a few years. Speaking of blending into American society, you know how long it took the Irish to fully integrate?  Perhaps in some ways Mexicans are just another population that will eventually blend.

There were quotas pertaining to Ellis Island.  It was more than 2%.  Frequently whole ships were told to turn around and go back.  (Some simply redocked somewhere else)  I have a friend who came from Cuba.  She went the route of Citezenship.  It took her quite a few years. Speaking of blending into American society, you know how long it took the Irish to fully integrate?  Perhaps in some ways Mexicans are just another population that will eventually blend.


Well, the Irish were already starting somewhat ahead in terms of integration.  They commonly spoke English, for one.

There is a greater difference between Mexican culture (and that of other Latin American cultures) and ours than what existed between us and the Irish.  Undoubtedly, the Irish experienced much of the same racism as Mexicans and other Hispanics do today, but a certain amount of assimilation was already in effect from the beginning.  In many ways, Irish discrimination was more about classism, because they worked for much lower pay than "natives."

While the pay discrepancy still exists with Mexican labor (and that of many other Hispanic immigrants), the cultural differences make integration a longer process for them.  The language barrier is a considerable obstacle in many cases, which accentuates the need for more consistently enforcing immigration laws and naturalization.

There were quotas pertaining to Ellis Island.  It was more than 2%.  Frequently whole ships were told to turn around and go back.  (Some simply redocked somewhere else)  I have a friend who came from Cuba.  She went the route of Citezenship.  It took her quite a few years. Speaking of blending into American society, you know how long it took the Irish to fully integrate?  Perhaps in some ways Mexicans are just another population that will eventually blend.


More then 2%?  May I ask where you are getting that figure from?  Because it is totally different from most figures I have ever seen.

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ellis_Island
http://www.nps.gov/archive/stli/serv02.htm

Oh, and the diseases that were most likely be a cause for refusal of entry?  Trachoma and Tuberculosis.  Those 2 diseases account for almost 80% of refusals.

And there were not a lot of rejections.  For one reason, the steamship and sailing companies were required to return the refused immigrant to their home port free of charge.  If there had been large numbers of refusals, companies would stop bringing immigrants because it would be unprofitable.

not interested enough to listen to that crap...



Yeah, but he GOT you, man, just like Dirty Harry!  You're busted.  Do you feel lucky, punk, well do ya?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/multijump.gif

Well, the Irish were already starting somewhat ahead in terms of integration.  They commonly spoke English, for one.

There is a greater difference between Mexican culture (and that of other Latin American cultures) and ours than what existed between us and the Irish.  Undoubtedly, the Irish experienced much of the same racism as Mexicans and other Hispanics do today, but a certain amount of assimilation was already in effect from the beginning.  In many ways, Irish discrimination was more about classism, because they worked for much lower pay than "natives."



Many of first wave of Irish spoke gaelic, and the ones who spoke English had such thick accents it may have well have been Gaelic.  I don't know if you have ever heard it, I have and it isn't the soft lilt you get in the movies. It is many times incomprehensible.  They did, indeed, experienced racism because at that time the were considered, by the ruling elite, to be a different race, and that was used as a justification for their treatment of them.  Everything that is said about the Mexican wave of immigration, the fears, the lies, and the utter ignorance, was also experienced by the Irish. 

Many of first wave of Irish spoke gaelic, and the ones who spoke English had such thick accents it may have well have been Gaelic.  I don't know if you have ever heard it, I have and it isn't the soft lilt you get in the movies. It is many times incomprehensible.  They did, indeed, experienced racism because at that time the were considered, by the ruling elite, to be a different race, and that was used as a justification for their treatment of them.  Everything that is said about the Mexican wave of immigration, the fears, the lies, and the utter ignorance, was also experienced by the Irish. 


"No Irish need apply"

Many of first wave of Irish spoke gaelic, and the ones who spoke English had such thick accents it may have well have been Gaelic.  I don't know if you have ever heard it, I have and it isn't the soft lilt you get in the movies. It is many times incomprehensible.  They did, indeed, experienced racism because at that time the were considered, by the ruling elite, to be a different race, and that was used as a justification for their treatment of them.  Everything that is said about the Mexican wave of immigration, the fears, the lies, and the utter ignorance, was also experienced by the Irish. 


True, but I'd argue the situation was a bit different.  For one, they still had to cross an ocean to get in, so managing immigration from Ireland was easier than having to deal with people hopping a land border.

True, but I'd argue the situation was a bit different.  For one, they still had to cross an ocean to get in, so managing immigration from Ireland was easier than having to deal with people hopping a land border.


Not by a long shot.  Boston had high the highest per capita concentration of Irish during the waves of immigration that lead to an increase in the neighborhood of 25%-30% of the population.  A large proportion of the immigrants came in from Nova Scotia.  Those turned away from Ellis Island, or or thought they wouldn't get passed through, or were on the run from the law, were known to find there way down from Canada to Maine to Massachusetts.  The ones who came here were generally the criminals, poorest of the poor, the least educated.  They lived in horrible conditions and were looked down on because of it. Every thing said, and perceived, about the Mexicans today was said about the Irish, and in many cases worse. 

Not by a long shot.  Boston had high the highest per capita concentration of Irish during the waves of immigration that lead to an increase in the neighborhood of 25%-30% of the population.  A large proportion of the immigrants came in from Nova Scotia.  Those turned away from Ellis Island, or or thought they wouldn't get passed through, or were on the run from the law, were known to find there way down from Canada to Maine to Massachusetts.  The ones who came here were generally the criminals, poorest of the poor, the least educated.  They lived in horrible conditions and were looked down on because of it. Every thing said, and perceived, about the Mexicans today was said about the Irish, and in many cases worse. 


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/TheUsualIrishWayofDoingThings.jpg
Thomas Nast: The Usual Irish Way of Doing Things

The WASP ruling class in America in the 19th century had a distrust of papists and a loathsome hatred for the Irish going back hundreds of years. 

Not by a long shot.  Boston had high the highest per capita concentration of Irish during the waves of immigration that lead to an increase in the neighborhood of 25%-30% of the population.  A large proportion of the immigrants came in from Nova Scotia.  Those turned away from Ellis Island, or or thought they wouldn't get passed through, or were on the run from the law, were known to find there way down from Canada to Maine to Massachusetts.  The ones who came here were generally the criminals, poorest of the poor, the least educated.  They lived in horrible conditions and were looked down on because of it. Every thing said, and perceived, about the Mexicans today was said about the Irish, and in many cases worse. 


Well, letting in criminals, regardless of race, is a bad idea.

Well, Gov. Arnie still enjoys their company!

He says he's happy they(the illegals) have access the CA services offered.

I still say:

            they are NOT to be here in the first place.

            the CA deficit is about 23 Billion and Arnie says illegals may be responsible for 5 billion of it. If so, TAX them and get 25% back to add to the posiitive gains!
            (Previously stating the illegals are getting 2 benefits from US..they get their free food and services AND send their millions to theiir home residents.)

            let's take care of the blind, elderly and sick Americans(our own) first.

            Or at least the people who play by the rules. CA suffers when they close down the schools instead of turning away illegals so now Americans can't improve their education. 

      OK..we all know how we all feel now..forget the US  immigration history lessons, we can't dig up the dead illegals and send them back for sneaking past the system.

Maybe complain to the poilticians who can help control the problems in this area..

Well, letting in criminals, regardless of race, is a bad idea.

Hey... something we agree on :)

The difficulty is deciding who are the criminals before you let them in.

It's actually one of my biggest gripes (to be honest, pretty much my only serious gripe) about immigration is that we (the taxpayers) spend an awful lot of money keeping criminals from overseas locked up (according to the HMPS website, 14% of inmates are foreign nationals, that's >11,000 prisoners).  It pisses me off that with those people who turn up here, commit serious crimes that we end up having to pay not just for the crime they've committed but also to lock them up afterwards.

Hey... something we agree on :)

The difficulty is deciding who are the criminals before you let them in.

It's actually one of my biggest gripes (to be honest, pretty much my only serious gripe) about immigration is that we (the taxpayers) spend an awful lot of money keeping criminals from overseas locked up (according to the HMPS website, 14% of inmates are foreign nationals, that's >11,000 prisoners).  It pisses me off that with those people who turn up here, commit serious crimes that we end up having to pay not just for the crime they've committed but also to lock them up afterwards.




You're not alone.  We have the same problem (at probably a worse level).

It looks like both the U.K. and the U.S. need another penal colony.

You're not alone.  We have the same problem (at probably a worse level).

It looks like both the U.K. and the U.S. need another penal colony.


Camp X-ray?
???

You're not alone.  We have the same problem (at probably a worse level).

It looks like both the U.K. and the U.S. need another penal colony.

Well, you guys certainly lock up a bucketload more people..  but I'm not after another penal colony (which, lets face it, we'd still have to pay for.. and Australia's still there ;)), I just want all foreign criminals to be imprisoned in their own countries - I don't see why we should have to pay to house another country's bad guys, just because they came here to commit their crimes.

Well, you guys certainly lock up a bucketload more people..  but I'm not after another penal colony (which, lets face it, we'd still have to pay for.. and Australia's still there ;)), I just want all foreign criminals to be imprisoned in their own countries - I don't see why we should have to pay to house another country's bad guys, just because they came here to commit their crimes.


No kidding...  although...  as a side note, our incarceration rate is pretty high thanks to mandatory drug sentencing.  We really need to revoke those (and legalize weed).

No kidding...  although...  as a side note, our incarceration rate is pretty high thanks to mandatory drug sentencing.  We really need to revoke those (and legalize weed).

Agreed - on both points.

Well, Gov. Arnie still enjoys their company!

He says he's happy they(the illegals) have access the CA services offered.

I still say:

            they are NOT to be here in the first place.

            the CA deficit is about 23 Billion and Arnie says illegals may be responsible for 5 billion of it. If so, TAX them and get 25% back to add to the posiitive gains!
             (Previously stating the illegals are getting 2 benefits from US..they get their free food and services AND send their millions to theiir home residents.)

            let's take care of the blind, elderly and sick Americans(our own) first.

             Or at least the people who play by the rules. CA suffers when they close down the schools instead of turning away illegals so now Americans can't improve their education.   

       OK..we all know how we all feel now..forget the US  immigration history lessons, we can't dig up the dead illegals and send them back for sneaking past the system.

Maybe complain to the poilticians who can help control the problems in this area..


Tax them?  You're assuming they all have jobs.  If they had jobs they wouldn't need such things as Welfare and medicaid now would they?  Now which is it?  Are they taking American jobs or are they leeching off tax money?  But we like digging up old immigration stories.