I was thinking...The abortion issue is a huge debate, and I know this idea isn't really "PC" but...

What about this--If a mother wants to get an abortion, say, instead of getting the abortion, she can volunteer to have the child ''adopted'' in a sense by the government. Not in a literal sense, of course, but the child would, with the parent's permission, be raised from birth to be a soldier--the same way the Spartans raised their children, to be warriors from the time they were infants. They would be trained to be warriors from a very young age, and would be trained in all manners of combat and survival training--to be America's elite fighting force, feared even more than the Marines. They would of course also be schooled in every other subject; basically, they would receive the same education as any American child; a balanced curriculum, with the added aspect of military training.

Perhaps their parents come visit them, or they could live with their parents. Or their ''commanders'' could become their legal guardians.

They wouldn't owe their allegiance to any one President--that would run the risk of creating a Hitler youth sort of group--but perhaps to the Constitution or to America itself. Perhaps, then, at the age of 18 or something, they could be given the choice to leave or stay.

Perhaps we could also do something similar with prisoners. I'm not talking about those in prison for petty crimes; I'm talking about the lifers--the real hard cases--Put them to work as elite soldiers or something. Hone their violent or homicidal tendencies for use on our enemies. I mean, if they're serving a life sentence (particularly those with no chance of parole), they've given up their freedom anyway.

Many have suggested this happens in China (the children part).  I don't have any corroborating proof that it actually does, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for the prisoners part, I don't think the Running Man is going to be a reality anytime soon.  Also, you really don't want criminals as soldiers.

Nevertheless, there are gang members who join the military and then go back to their gangs after their tour of duty.

Son, you got the start of a real good dystopian sci-fi novel here.  I like it!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

So much for personal choice, land of the free, home of the brave, and all that pie in the sky nonsense.

So much for personal choice, land of the free, home of the brave, and all that pie in the sky nonsense.


That's why the right-wing is anti-abortion.  They need poor kids for cannon fodder.
::)

Son, you got the start of a real good dystopian sci-fi novel here.  I like it! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif


Should probably make citizenship contingent upon it.

http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/starshiptroopers.jpg

Is this Sparta?  Yes, yes it is.

Should probably make citizenship contingent upon it.

http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/starshiptroopers.jpg

Is this Sparta?  Yes, yes it is.


I like that movie.  It's silly fun, but I'm sure the book was way more serious. ;D

When has anything that starts with neo- ever been a good thing?

When has anything that starts with neo- ever been a good thing?


Neon lights?
???

When has anything that starts with neo- ever been a good thing?


The Matrix  :D

Neosporin isn't a bad thing either, but none of those have the all-important hyphen

Neo-Geo is the most positive example I can think of, and I think that was a resounding commercial failure

I like that movie.  It's silly fun, but I'm sure the book was way more serious. ;D



Ah yes, Star Nazi's 3000!  :D


Yep, to both of you.  Voerhoven missed Heinlein's point, and he took the opposite stance of what he thought Heinlein was getting at.  Heinlein's actual position on the responsibillities of a citizen wasn't nearly as simplistic as the movie made it out to be.  I'd recommend both the movie and the book, if for no reason other than that the contrast between the two (more than either the book or the movie alone) will make you think about the hard questions.

And it's a hell of a good book on its own, and a hell of a fun movie on its own.

What about this--If a mother wants to get an abortion, say, instead of getting the abortion, she can volunteer to have the child ''adopted'' in a sense by the government. Not in a literal sense, of course, but the child would, with the parent's permission, be raised from birth to be a soldier--the same way the Spartans raised their children, to be warriors from the time they were infants. They would be trained to be warriors from a very young age, and would be trained in all manners of combat and survival training--to be America's elite fighting force, feared even more than the Marines. They would of course also be schooled in every other subject; basically, they would receive the same education as any American child; a balanced curriculum, with the added aspect of military training.


I would fight against this with all my being.

Raising children to be soldiers is grossly immoral.

Sparta was more then just raising children to be soldiers.  It was an entire culture that placed "Martial Superiority" to an extreme.  But it was also in a day and age where you had to be that way to protect your family and home.  Thankfully, that is not the case today.


They wouldn't owe their allegiance to any one President--that would run the risk of creating a Hitler youth sort of group--but perhaps to the Constitution or to America itself. Perhaps, then, at the age of 18 or something, they could be given the choice to leave or stay.


That is how the military in the US has always been.  I did not take an oath to protect and defend the President.  I did not even take an oath to defend the country.  The oath of enlistment is as follows:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

My oath is to the Constitution.


Perhaps we could also do something similar with prisoners. I'm not talking about those in prison for petty crimes; I'm talking about the lifers--the real hard cases--Put them to work as elite soldiers or something. Hone their violent or homicidal tendencies for use on our enemies. I mean, if they're serving a life sentence (particularly those with no chance of parole), they've given up their freedom anyway.


No, no, no, no, no!

These are the last people I would ever want to serve with!

People like this are amoral scum, and in my mind not fit to be citizens of the country, let alone privledged with it's security.  These are already criminals, thugs, oath breakers, and not to be trusted.  And you want to give them guns?

People that are "homocidal" can't be honed.  They can't be trained.  They are beneath contempt.  And you want to give them guns to serve with me?

Soldiers (Marines, etc) are not "killers".  We are not murderers.  Those that slip in and do crimes are considered to be pure scum by those of us that follow the rules.  In military prisons, they are segregated just like sex offenders are in regular prisons.  Because they stand against everything that we stand for.

The military does not operate by killing.  We operated by inflicting calculated force.  Yes, that force may involve killing.  But ideally, it simply involves us being someplace.  A convoy of tanks and APCs is more effective then a convoy of trucks and taxi's.  Because the threat of force (or retaliation) prevents more attacks.  Much like the presence of a police officer's weapon often is all that is needed to prevent a situation from getting out of hand ("I better behave, or this guy can mess me up!").

This is the future Tom Hanks and the Greatest Generation saved us from. Had not it been for Grandpa and his buddies, Giant Bugs and Neil Patrick Harris would've figured big in our future. The downside is, no co-ed showers! Thanks Matt Damon  :(---- :D ;D

The hell is wrong with Neil Patrick Harris figuring big in our future? I want Neil Patrick Harris to figure big in my future! I will even put up with giant bugs in exchange for more Neil Patrick Harris. I'm not particularly heartbroken about no co-ed showers... particularly if the showers somehow involve Neil Patrick Harris. ;)