Yesterday, a thread that had generated amazingly healthy debate, was deleted because of some of the content.

At any rate, I feel that discussion warrants another thread in its place, although I doubt very much that we will get the same conversations going, or the positives and the negatives that the thread actually showed.

Now, I had the last page of the thread open, and luckily I didn't close the browser. So I will copy and paste the most prominent posts from the last page here, in hopes that the discussion can continue.

Tam

I think most of us have seen prejudice up close & personal. I can't say that I recall ever being called a racial name but, like so many here, my people have had atrocities beyond comprehension inflicted upon them. It was called the Holocaust. 




Cat

barefootrobin:
nd, more recently, The Rwandan Genocide.  Not over 6 million but over a 100,000.  The taking of even one life for any reason at all is beyond evil.

snozberries:
judging blacks (even partially) because of rap is like saying Southerns must be slow because ythat's how they are depicted in the Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres and the Andy Griffith show. And its like saying New Yorkers must be callous and rude because of Seinfeld and several cinematic depictions. Are all italians from New Jersey gangsters? They must be...cuz the Sopranos says so... and hmmmm I guess everyone in San Francisco is gay. Everyone... 

Macphisto:

This is yet another facepalm moment.

Do you guys not understand that I'm not saying these stereotypes are true?  I'm telling you why they exist.  I swear...  the reading comprehension around here is way off sometimes.

The point is... if a popular music form glamorizes violence and drugs, it's going to negatively affect perceptions of that community.  If certain people dress like a "thug", they will be perceived as such.

Again, I'm not saying it's right, but stereotypes exist for a reason.

snozberries:
I think you are the one having problem with your reading comprehension.....or perhaps you should open that mind of yours .because I've been saying people need to learn how to take the entertainment and the culture and view them separately...

The numbers of people you talk about rap music representing are far smaller than the number of people who actually believe that is the lifestyle blacks lead.... way smaller...

Jessica:
This has been weighing heavily on my mind for awhile now too, but the sh*t that Mexicans are getting lately is f*cking ridiculous.  Not only do we have to deal with people making the assumption that we're all illegal or ignorant (and therefore, dumb), but now we're getting blamed for swine flu!

I have been called derogatory names before (even though I'm only a half-breed, but my last name reflects my Mexican heritage), and it is not fun.  AT ALL.  I may not make any sense in this ramble, so forgive me.  This is one of the reasons why I do NOT like the "N" word.  It smacks so much of being called "beaner" or "spic" or "wetback" or "jagger".  It HURTS, and that is why I am so adamant that that word to describe Blacks is so foul.  I have had FAMILY MEMBERS, family that has been here for their WHOLE lives, being told to go back to Mexico, you're illegal, you should be deported, etc.  It is f*cking crap.

And no, it doesn't make it okay that rappers use that word.  Furthermore, rap did NOT start out glamourizing "Thug Life" or the criminal lifestyle.  Listen to the Sugarhill Gang, Rakim, Public Enemy, and God forbid, even MC Hammer.

I'm done now becaust this topic even pisses me off in my inebriated state.


Macphisto:
I would agree that what you have to experience isn't fair.  But again, it happens as a result of illegal immigration being an issue to begin with.  If there weren't 13 million illegals in this country, then people would have a different perception of Mexicans.  Again, it's not fair or logical to treat all Mexicans the same because of this issue, but as long as the issue exists, it will continue to happen.

Rap may not have begun that way, but now that it permeates rap, it isn't exactly blameless.

Macphisto:
When was the last time prejudice made sense overall?  I'm not saying it's right to assume certain things about blacks, but it happens partially because of rap.

Do you get what I'm saying?  It's not a matter of objective truth, it's a matter of perception.


Danoota&Me:
Whose perception?  The people who do that have found, and will continue to find, reasons to negatively stereotype blacks, it is what they do.

There.

I took out all of the 'other' stuff that the thread was deleted for, at least from the last page.

Now because I did everything in quote boxes, you might want to copy and paste if you are going to reply to any of them. 8)

There are good people in the world and there are bad people in the world.  When will this world look at these two people and not at the color of their skin :\'(

I think you are the one having problem with your reading comprehension.....or perhaps you should open that mind of yours .because I've been saying people need to learn how to take the entertainment and the culture and view them separately...

Why not change the entertainment instead?  I like some rap myself, but I generally aim for the guys with more to say.  For example, I think Outkast is a much more positive rap group than most.

While Jay-Z has his checkered past, most of his music seems to promote rising up from the circumstances you were born in.

It's stuff like that that needs to be more common among rappers in order to give people a better perception of black culture.  I'm not the only one who feels this way either.

Bill Cosby has pretty much already said a lot of what I've been saying.

The numbers of people you talk about rap music representing are far smaller than the number of people who actually believe that is the lifestyle blacks lead.... way smaller...

I hope you're right, because Durham, D.C., Detroit, Oakland, and Compton can often seem contrary to that assumption.

There are good people in the world and there are bad people in the world.  When will this world look at these two people and not at the color of their skin :\'(


The day people take their cues from 2 year olds.  Put a bunch of kids in a sandbox and they will play, regardless of skin color.  I think we could all learn from kids.

Whose perception?  The people who do that have found, and will continue to find, reasons to negatively stereotype blacks, it is what they do.

Some of them, yes.  People that are truly racist will do that.  People like myself try to give black people a chance.  I know many black coworkers who I consider friends.  Some of them are close friends.  I try to judge people as individuals, but yeah, I've got prejudice just like everyone else.

Some of that prejudice comes from personal experiences I've had with certain black people.  Now again, I don't assume all blacks are a certain way (or even the majority of them for that matter), but if I see someone dressed a certain way and acting a certain way, it's hard not to make certain assumptions.

If you saw a white person that looked and dressed like a hick with a grim expression on his face looking in your direction, you might assume he's prejudiced, right?  You don't have any substantial evidence of his prejudice, but he fits a stereotype.

There are various stereotypes that every race has, and most of us respond accordingly.  It doesn't make it right, but... it should be obvious where the prejudice comes from.

The day people take their cues from 2 year olds.  Put a bunch of kids in a sandbox and they will play, regardless of skin color.  I think we could all learn from kids.
AMEN O0

 


and if they are bad - throw sand at them ::)

Did I say that outloud

Me:  "Jason, what are you doing to the Eskimo?"

Jason:  "That's not an Eskimo, it's a people!"

...made me think a bit.

Some of them, yes.  People that are truly racist will do that.  People like myself try to give black people a chance.  I know many black coworkers who I consider friends.  Some of them are close friends.  I try to judge people as individuals, but yeah, I've got prejudice just like everyone else.

Some of that prejudice comes from personal experiences I've had with certain black people.  Now again, I don't assume all blacks are a certain way (or even the majority of them for that matter), but if I see someone dressed a certain way and acting a certain way, it's hard not to make certain assumptions.

If you saw a white person that looked and dressed like a hick with a grim expression on his face looking in your direction, you might assume he's prejudiced, right?  You don't have any substantial evidence of his prejudice, but he fits a stereotype.

There are various stereotypes that every race has, and most of us respond accordingly.  It doesn't make it right, but... it should be obvious where the prejudice comes from.





Let me preface this by saying that I'm coming in late.  I was spending the day w/ my half-black daughter in GR while all this was blowing up on the boards.

There are a lot of points I could comment on, but I choose to focus on your last statement....(mostly because I was a little confused by your statement about the hick with a grim expression so I don't want to misinterpret what you are trying to say)

Why do we have to respond to stereotypes?  Why can't we try to break them?  Why can't we start to see individuals and want to learn about each other rather than sizing someone up in less than 5 seconds without getting to know them?  Instead of perpetuating stereotypes, let's spend our time eradicating them.

Me:  "Jason, what are you doing to the Eskimo?"

Jason:  "That's not an Eskimo, it's a people!"

...made me think a bit.
Kids are sooo smart 8)

Maybe I was fortunate growing up in a very multi-cultural background (I had German, Jamaiican, Chinese, Czech, Moroccan, Jewish and Philippino friends growing up) so I am accustomed to see people from many races and cultures, and probably why I dated several people outside my own race (and married a Chinese girl)

I just wish everyone would try to look to find what's inside the person. 


Me:  "Jason, what are you doing to the Eskimo?"

Jason:  "That's not an Eskimo, it's a people!"

...made me think a bit.

Very nice...

Me:  "Jason, what are you doing to the Eskimo?"

Jason:  "That's not an Eskimo, it's a people!"

...made me think a bit.


He's a smart boy. :)

Let me preface this by saying that I'm coming in late.  I was spending the day w/ my half-black daughter in GR while all this was blowing up on the boards.

There are a lot of points I could comment on, but I choose to focus on your last statement....(mostly because I was a little confused by your statement about the hick with a grim expression so I don't want to misinterpret what you are trying to say)

Why do we have to respond to stereotypes?  Why can't we try to break them?  Why can't we start to see individuals and want to learn about each other rather than sizing someone up in less than 5 seconds without getting to know them?  Instead of perpetuating stereotypes, let's spend our time eradicating them.


Exactly what I wanted to say. But you said it much more calmly and eloquently than I did.

He's a smart boy. :)


Or to quote rice from some months ago.  The boy is wise.  ;)

Let me preface this by saying that I'm coming in late.  I was spending the day w/ my half-black daughter in GR while all this was blowing up on the boards.

There are a lot of points I could comment on, but I choose to focus on your last statement....(mostly because I was a little confused by your statement about the hick with a grim expression so I don't want to misinterpret what you are trying to say)

Why do we have to respond to stereotypes?  Why can't we try to break them?  Why can't we start to see individuals and want to learn about each other rather than sizing someone up in less than 5 seconds without getting to know them?  Instead of perpetuating stereotypes, let's spend our time eradicating them.


That is the ideal, but again, I'm explaining what most people do.

My point is...  if you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, don't behave as one.

That is the ideal, but again, I'm explaining what most people do.

My point is...  if you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, don't behave as one.


And my point is I don't. But I still am. 

That is the ideal, but again, I'm explaining what most people do.

My point is...  if you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, don't behave as one.


The problem isn't people who behave like the stereotype, the problem is the "most people" who treat people as if they were a stereotype.

When reading your posts it appears that you want to put the burden of being stereotyped on the community as a whole,  as if rap culture is the fault of all black people and we will suffer from the stereotype engendered unless we as a group do something to stop it.  Correct me if I am wrong.

The day people take their cues from 2 year olds.  Put a bunch of kids in a sandbox and they will play, regardless of skin color.  I think we could all learn from kids.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHKzn8aHyXg




Cat

And my point is I don't. But I still am.   


Santa Barbara must have a lot of ignorant people then.  Obviously, I'm not black, but over here in NC, race relations tend to be laid back.  We've come a long way since that KKK/Communist clash back in the early 80s (I live in Greensboro, NC).

The funny thing about most areas I've been to in the South is that there tends to be less prejudice toward blacks (other than in Durham) and more prejudice toward atheists and gay people.  Religion tends to unite races where I'm at, so I guess that makes it eaiser for them to discriminate against the non-religious.

Granted, racial prejudice against Hispanics is probably worse here than against blacks.

The problem isn't people who behave like the stereotype, the problem is the "most people" who treat people as if they were a stereotype.

When reading your posts it appears that you want to put the burden of being stereotyped on the community as a whole,  as if rap culture is the fault of all black people and we will suffer from the stereotype engendered unless we as a group do something to stop it.  Correct me if I am wrong.


Cosby has suggested something of that nature.

My argument is that it takes both.  People should refrain from assuming too much, but every community should actively work against stereotypes, including the black community.

Santa Barbara must have a lot of ignorant people then.  Obviously, I'm not black, but over here in NC, race relations tend to be laid back.  We've come a long way since that KKK/Communist clash back in the early 80s (I live in Greensboro, NC).

The funny thing about most areas I've been to in the South is that there tends to be less prejudice toward blacks (other than in Durham) and more prejudice toward atheists and gay people.  Religion tends to unite races where I'm at, so I guess that makes it eaiser for them to discriminate against the non-religious.

Granted, racial prejudice against Hispanics is probably worse here than against blacks.


I've lived in 4 different states and two other countries... my experience is not limited to one city.

Cosby has suggested something of that nature.

My argument is that it takes both.  People should refrain from assuming too much, but every community should actively work against stereotypes, including the black community.




Cosby suggested putting more interest in education than in commercialism...

he wanted to people to value knowledge over having the fanciest pair of high tops... you are not saying the same thing...

Danoot already explained it better anyway...

I liked Cosby.  I used to watch the Cosby Kids with Fat Albert all the time.

Ghost Dad did suck though.


I've lived in 4 different states and two other countries... my experience is not limited to one city.




I did live in NC (Raleigh-Durham area) for a while and never really had an issue with race, but then again I got along with just about everyone.  Where we were at in Indiana, and also here now on the South Side, many of my neighbors were/are black and seemed very friendly, then again we are in the "gentrified" area of Hyde Park.  You can sort of see the invisible force field where the gentrification ends and the neighborhoods go to hell :(

What I have noticed is that my black classmates in the program tend to gravitate towards each other, although they and I get along famously...the Chinese/Asian folk also get together, I think people tend to be more comfortable with their own demographic.

Not really pertinent to the conversation at the moment, just some observations I had.

What I have noticed is that my black classmates in the program tend to gravitate towards each other, although they and I get along famously...the Chinese/Asian folk also get together, I think people tend to be more comfortable with their own demographic.

Not really pertinent to the conversation at the moment, just some observations I had.



One of the saddest documentaries I've seen was a return to Central High in Little Rock... I've mentioned this before on these boards.
One of the orginal Little Rock Nine came back to talk to a class and she said it was a shame that after all these years the school, that classroom, was still segregated because the blacks sat on one side of the room and the whites sat on the other.

I've lived in 4 different states and two other countries... my experience is not limited to one city.

What were the other countries?

Cosby suggested putting more interest in education than in commercialism...

he wanted to people to value knowledge over having the fanciest pair of high tops... you are not saying the same thing...

Danoot already explained it better anyway...


Well, considering how materialistic most rap is, it doesn't seem that different to me.

Cosby suggested putting more interest in education than in commercialism...

he wanted to people to value knowledge over having the fanciest pair of high tops... you are not saying the same thing...

Danoot already explained it better anyway...


Heathcliffe Huxtable was the Ward Cleaver of the 1980s.  That's one thing.

Another thing is I'm not about to listen to to a man worth half a billion dollars finger-wag poor kids about some sneakers!  The Cosby compound is up the road from me in Shelburne Falls, but you can't see anything beyond the frikkin' guard shack!
::)

What were the other countries?

Holland and panama.

Heathcliffe Huxtable was the Ward Cleaver of the 1980s.  That's one thing.

Another thing is I'm not about to listen to to a man worth half a billion dollars finger-wag poor kids about some sneakers!  The Cosby compound is up the road from me in Shelburne Falls, but you can't see anything beyond the frikkin' guard shack!
::)


and.....It isn't as if he is a saint.  He used to be a regular at the Playboy mansion while Camille was home with the kids. I dare say there are more than one little heathcliffs running.

Holland and panama.


What were those like?

What were those like?


Panama was like the us because I was on an air force base.
Holland was great.

Panama was like the us because I was on an air force base.
Holland was great.


How did Holland compare on race relations to us?

How did Holland compare on race relations to us?


my experience is they're less judgmental

and.....It isn't as if he is a saint.  He used to be a regular at the Playboy mansion while Camille was home with the kids. I dare say there are more than one little heathcliffs running.


Cosby used to party at Hef's?  Awesome.  8)

Cosby used to party at Hef's?  Awesome.  8)


"Party"?  Maybe back in the day...but nowadays he and Hef prolly play Parcheesi and talk prune juice and Viagra!

And who says Camille stayed home with the kids while Cos was at Hef's?  Perhaps the nanny stayed with the kids and Camille was out tooting blow with Richard Pryor! Wooo-hoooo!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/laughing9.gif

That is the ideal, but again, I'm explaining what most people do.

My point is...  if you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, don't behave as one.




I know Danoota responded to this better than I am, but I can't leave it alone.

I can't help but ask, are you serious or is there some sarcastic undertone that I'm not picking up?  Since when is stereotyping the fault of the person being stereotyped?

And, I'm sorry, but it really bugs me when people "explain what most people do".  WHY do you feel it necessary to explain what most people do?  Explain what YOU do, not what you think everyone/most people is/are doing....isn't that the basic foundation of how stereotyping happens??  "Most people" think about or react to a group based on some shared superficial characteristic and therefore that must be how that group behaves.  How do I know you aren't including me in "most people"?  What if I'm not like that (I'm not, just for the record)?  Instead of focusing on what everyone else is saying/doing, why don't you focus on what YOU do and how YOU react to others.  Do your part to knock down stereotypes rather that propagating them by telling us what most people are doing.  Just my opinion.

I know Danoota responded to this better than I am, but I can't leave it alone.

I can't help but ask, are you serious or is there some sarcastic undertone that I'm not picking up?  Since when is stereotyping the fault of the person being stereotyped?

And, I'm sorry, but it really bugs me when people "explain what most people do".  WHY do you feel it necessary to explain what most people do?  Explain what YOU do, not what you think everyone/most people is/are doing....isn't that the basic foundation of how stereotyping happens??  "Most people" think about or react to a group based on some shared superficial characteristic and therefore that must be how that group behaves.  How do I know you aren't including me in "most people"?  What if I'm not like that (I'm not, just for the record)?  Instead of focusing on what everyone else is saying/doing, why don't you focus on what YOU do and how YOU react to others.  Do your part to knock down stereotypes rather that propagating them by telling us what most people are doing.  Just my opinion.


you tell him sister... in the way that all women are considered sisters through their feminine bond not in the vernacular...lest I be stereotyped now for my choice of language.

What I resented about Cosby claiming he did not use African-American stereotypes on his program was that -- goofy though they may have been because they were characters in sit-coms -- Fred Sanford and J. J. Evans represented the lives of more African-Americans than Cosby did in his world of wealth and privilege.  I suppose it was fine for Cosby to say he'd like to see more black doctors and lawyers on TV than black junkmen and black wise-cracking teenagers, but in doing so, Cosby played into a whole new stereotype: The Buppie.  Perhaps this was a "positive" stereotype but a positive stereotype is still a stereotype.  And Cosby & Co. pulled it off with SUCH pedantic smugness!
::)

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Redneck_-_Stereotypes/id/5412816

I happen to fit a lot of those stereotypes. There are many that completely miss the mark.

MacPhisto and I are pretty good friends, and I don't think he judges me at all for being, for all intents and purposes, "half Redneck". I happen to not have the worst traits of a stereotypical redneck.

There are traits/behaviours/actions that *many* (I won't say "most") have that fit stereotypes. Not all stereotypes are bad either. And all stereotypes are worth making fun of: see Katt Williams.

Ant

I know Danoota responded to this better than I am, but I can't leave it alone.

I can't help but ask, are you serious or is there some sarcastic undertone that I'm not picking up?  Since when is stereotyping the fault of the person being stereotyped?

And, I'm sorry, but it really bugs me when people "explain what most people do".  WHY do you feel it necessary to explain what most people do?  Explain what YOU do, not what you think everyone/most people is/are doing....isn't that the basic foundation of how stereotyping happens??  "Most people" think about or react to a group based on some shared superficial characteristic and therefore that must be how that group behaves.  How do I know you aren't including me in "most people"?  What if I'm not like that (I'm not, just for the record)?  Instead of focusing on what everyone else is saying/doing, why don't you focus on what YOU do and how YOU react to others.  Do your part to knock down stereotypes rather that propagating them by telling us what most people are doing.  Just my opinion.


Thanks for chiming in. When I say something about being stereotyped he tends to insinuate that I am playing the victim when I experience what he believes to be not really racist acts.  Then he suggests that until the community deals with Rap music we should understand why white people would be wary of us, all of us. By the same token I haven't heard him suggest that all whites should gather together to stop Punk music because of the way I depicts whites, or that blacks should fear all whites because of the KKK. It really is a shame that so many of the relevant posts were deleted.

What I resented about Cosby claiming he did not use African-American stereotypes on his program was that -- goofy though they may have been because they were characters in sit-coms -- Fred Sanford and J. J. Evans represented the lives of more African-Americans than Cosby did in his world of wealth and privilege.  I suppose it was fine for Cosby to say he'd like to see more black doctors and lawyers on TV than black junkmen and black wise-cracking teenagers, but in doing so, Cosby played into a whole new stereotype: The Buppie.  Perhaps this was a "positive" stereotype but a positive stereotype is still a stereotype.  And Cosby & Co. pulled it off with SUCH pedantic smugness!
::)


I, on the other hand. loved the fact that he had a black doctor in Brooklyn Heights with his multicolored children.  His family was closer to mine than Sanford and Son.  Who said that a sitcom about minorities had to mirror the community.  I watched the show every week and saw more of my family in it than I did the Jeffersons, and I laughed and laughed and laughed.....

my experience is they're less judgmental



I heard somewhere that the Puritans left Holland to come to the "new world" was NOT because of religious freedom as the History books imply. They had religious freedom in Holland. They left because everyone else had religious freedom, too. They wanted a place where they could dictate people's religious beliefs.



Cat

I heard somewhere that the Puritans left Holland to come to the "new world" was NOT because of religious freedom as the History books imply. They had religious freedom in Holland. They left because everyone else had religious freedom, too. They wanted a place where they could dictate people's religious beliefs.

Being a puritan's a lot less fun if you see other people having a good time all around you...

I heard somewhere that the Puritans left Holland to come to the "new world" was NOT because of religious freedom as the History books imply. They had religious freedom in Holland. They left because everyone else had religious freedom, too. They wanted a place where they could dictate people's religious beliefs.



Cat


Too true.  The Puritans were extremely rigid.  They absolutely believed in freedom of religion, but only their own.  Everyone else was a heretic.

What I resented about Cosby claiming he did not use African-American stereotypes on his program was that -- goofy though they may have been because they were characters in sit-coms -- Fred Sanford and J. J. Evans represented the lives of more African-Americans than Cosby did in his world of wealth and privilege.  I suppose it was fine for Cosby to say he'd like to see more black doctors and lawyers on TV than black junkmen and black wise-cracking teenagers, but in doing so, Cosby played into a whole new stereotype: The Buppie.  Perhaps this was a "positive" stereotype but a positive stereotype is still a stereotype.  And Cosby & Co. pulled it off with SUCH pedantic smugness!
::)


I think you're reading WAY too much into a television program.  When I watched it, all I saw was another sitcom where the family lived their life and had hilarious predicaments once in a while.  It never even entered my mind that they were wealthy or smug.


Being a puritan's a lot less fun if you see other people having a good time all around you...




If you've never seen it, see if you can get a hold of a copy of a movie called "Love At Stake".  It is stupidly hilarious, and totally mocks Puritans and the reasons for the Salem Witch Trials.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093443/

my experience is they're less judgmental



My father said that during WWII his unit went to the Netherlands and the black soldiers were an unusual sight and didn't want for female "companionship" at all, they were actually sought after.  The white European soldiers shrugged it off but it drove the white American soldiers absolutely crazy.  

If you've never seen it, see if you can get a hold of a copy of a movie called "Love At Stake".  It is stupidly hilarious, and totally mocks Puritans and the reasons for the Salem Witch Trials.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093443/

Will keep my eye out for it... looks completely up my street :)

If you've never seen it, see if you can get a hold of a copy of a movie called "Love At Stake".  It is stupidly hilarious, and totally mocks Puritans and the reasons for the Salem Witch Trials.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093443/



I have seen that movie.


Not the best quality:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRRfPzbYQM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm095fNMc3Q



Cat

my experience is they're less judgmental


What do you think is the reason for that?

I know Danoota responded to this better than I am, but I can't leave it alone.

I can't help but ask, are you serious or is there some sarcastic undertone that I'm not picking up?  Since when is stereotyping the fault of the person being stereotyped?

And, I'm sorry, but it really bugs me when people "explain what most people do".  WHY do you feel it necessary to explain what most people do?  Explain what YOU do, not what you think everyone/most people is/are doing....isn't that the basic foundation of how stereotyping happens??  "Most people" think about or react to a group based on some shared superficial characteristic and therefore that must be how that group behaves.  How do I know you aren't including me in "most people"?  What if I'm not like that (I'm not, just for the record)?  Instead of focusing on what everyone else is saying/doing, why don't you focus on what YOU do and how YOU react to others.  Do your part to knock down stereotypes rather that propagating them by telling us what most people are doing.  Just my opinion.


Of all the forums I've been to, this is...  by far...  the most politically correct one.

I don't know, stats.  Since this place is mostly an echo chamber of the same liberal views without a little dissent coming from me, Mushroom, Foo Bar, Lyricboy, and Username, I'm not sure what to say that would better communicate my viewpoint.  You see, in most environments, I'm left-leaning.  In this one, however, I guess I'm the right-winger.  Honestly, I had no idea how far to the left some people can be until I came here.

Stereotypes partly exist because some people fit them.  That's really the crux of what I'm getting at.  It's not a simple matter of me blaming everyone that gets stereotyped for what they have to deal with, but some people do bring it on themselves.

I would like to get rid of stereotypes as well, but my interest in this is limited because of the number of people that fit them.  In my opinion, they are somewhat accurate when applied to certain people -- many of whom I see everyday.  That might not be the most tolerant, open-minded, or politically correct way of looking at things, but to me, it's a 2-way street when it comes to lessening the influence of stereotypes.

Stereotypes themselves will always exist as will prejudice, but the only way to successfully minimize them involves both what you mentioned and also making sure that fewer people behave as stereotypes.

That's really the best I can come up with to clarify my position on this.

Stereotypes themselves will always exist as will prejudice, but the only way to successfully minimize them involves both what you mentioned and also making sure that fewer people behave as stereotypes.



Perhaps a more appropriate approach would be to try to perpetuate positive stereotypes and eliminate negative ones.  But who's to decide which is which?

Of all the forums I've been to, this is...  by far...  the most politically correct one.

I don't know, stats.  Since this place is mostly an echo chamber of the same liberal views without a little dissent coming from me, Mushroom, Foo Bar, Lyricboy, and Username, I'm not sure what to say that would better communicate my viewpoint.  You see, in most environments, I'm left-leaning.  In this one, however, I guess I'm the right-winger.  Honestly, I had no idea how far to the left some people can be until I came here.

Stereotypes partly exist because some people fit them.  That's really the crux of what I'm getting at.  It's not a simple matter of me blaming everyone that gets stereotyped for what they have to deal with, but some people do bring it on themselves.

I would like to get rid of stereotypes as well, but my interest in this is limited because of the number of people that fit them.  In my opinion, they are somewhat accurate when applied to certain people -- many of whom I see everyday.  That might not be the most tolerant, open-minded, or politically correct way of looking at things, but to me, it's a 2-way street when it comes to lessening the influence of stereotypes.

Stereotypes themselves will always exist as will prejudice, but the only way to successfully minimize them involves both what you mentioned and also making sure that fewer people behave as stereotypes.

That's really the best I can come up with to clarify my position on this.



Thanks for trying to explain your position.  You shouldn't be held responsible for my lack of being able to grasp it.  I hope that in spite of everything you don't think I was trying to stop dissenting opinions...that is the only way to debate.  Yes, I'm liberal.  Yes, I wish EVERY one had the same civil and legal rights.  Yes, I have spent my adult life trying to break stereotypes.  I just wish people could forget about stereotypes and judging people based on how they look, the music they listen to, etc and just ACCEPT one another.  I just am still not sure how you expect people who are stereotyped by other people to change so they aren't stereotyped.  I just don't understand how that can happen.  They aren't doing the stereotyping, they are being stereotyped against.  You certainly don't have to like everyone you meet, but why is it necessary to pigeonhole them based on something so superficial.  That can be a rhetorical question because I really wasn't trying to target you or anyone else specifically, honest.

Again, just my personal opinion.



Thanks for chiming in. When I say something about being stereotyped he tends to insinuate that I am playing the victim when I experience what he believes to be not really racist acts.  Then he suggests that until the community deals with Rap music we should understand why white people would be wary of us, all of us. By the same token I haven't heard him suggest that all whites should gather together to stop Punk music because of the way I depicts whites, or that blacks should fear all whites because of the KKK. It really is a shame that so many of the relevant posts were deleted.


Thanks for not feeling like I stepped on your toes.  I do think you were more coherent than I was, but I really couldn't let it go.  Yeah, I'm sorry I missed the original thread.  I think you have hit on the fundamental problem with stereotypes.




you tell him sister... in the way that all women are considered sisters through their feminine bond not in the vernacular...lest I be stereotyped now for my choice of language.



lol  Thanks for the support "ma sista"  (sorry, at the risk of starting WWIII I just could NOT resist that)  ;D ;D  I feel like pulling a Q, as it were

Perhaps a more appropriate approach would be to try to perpetuate positive stereotypes and eliminate negative ones.  But who's to decide which is which?


Good point.  That may end up being the only practical solution.



Thanks for trying to explain your position.  You shouldn't be held responsible for my lack of being able to grasp it.  I hope that in spite of everything you don't think I was trying to stop dissenting opinions...that is the only way to debate.  Yes, I'm liberal.  Yes, I wish EVERY one had the same civil and legal rights.  Yes, I have spent my adult life trying to break stereotypes.  I just wish people could forget about stereotypes and judging people based on how they look, the music they listen to, etc and just ACCEPT one another.  I just am still not sure how you expect people who are stereotyped by other people to change so they aren't stereotyped.  I just don't understand how that can happen.  They aren't doing the stereotyping, they are being stereotyped against.  You certainly don't have to like everyone you meet, but why is it necessary to pigeonhole them based on something so superficial.  That can be a rhetorical question because I really wasn't trying to target you or anyone else specifically, honest.

Again, just my personal opinion.

That is the ideal.  But yeah, human nature tends to cause people to pigeonhole others.  If we all had the same skin color and hair color, we'd find something else to judge each other by.

Thanks for chiming in. When I say something about being stereotyped he tends to insinuate that I am playing the victim when I experience what he believes to be not really racist acts.  Then he suggests that until the community deals with Rap music we should understand why white people would be wary of us, all of us. By the same token I haven't heard him suggest that all whites should gather together to stop Punk music because of the way I depicts whites, or that blacks should fear all whites because of the KKK. It really is a shame that so many of the relevant posts were deleted.


I probably missed a lot of your posts because there was a point in time where I was away for about a day, and then I came back and the thread was gone.

Anyway, yeah, I do insinuate certain things, but I think we're still misunderstanding each other.

As I've said before, I live in a city that is about half black in population.  As a result of this, I meet a wide variety of black people, and we have a fairly prestigious predominantly black college that attracts much of the black community (NC A&T) here.  We also have Bennett College.  Anyway, from my experiences, I've made several black friends who I respect, but I've also run across a lot of blacks who fit the stereotypes we all know about.  It's this contrast of experiences that shapes the way I look at this issue.

Generally speaking, the way I see it is...  It's not fair that all of a community has to deal with the repercussions of a few people that fit a stereotype.  Yet, in order to understand where the prejudice comes from, you have to examine the stereotypical people themselves.  Those are the people that need to change so that they spare the rest of their community the problems that can result.

Now, as a white person, I try to be open-minded, but I'm not going to pretend that everything is ok.  I'm not going to toe the politically correct line on this, because it's not solely the fault of white people that prejudice exists.  Sometimes, I get the impression that's what some of you are suggesting, but obviously, reality works differently.

Generally speaking, the way I see it is...  It's not fair that all of a community has to deal with the repercussions of a few people that fit a stereotype.  Yet, in order to understand where the prejudice comes from, you have to examine the stereotypical people themselves.  Those are the people that need to change so that they spare the rest of their community the problems that can result.


Are we applying this to White people and their stereotypes as well?

Are we applying this to White people and their stereotypes as well?


Absolutely.  I don't like the impression that true "rednecks" give of white people either, and they need to behave less stereotypically to spare those of us that aren't true "rednecks."

Someone mentioned that country music shouldn't be used to define whites, but where I live, it does accurately define some white people here.

So yeah, I totally understand if you feel that a lot of white people are rednecks (because many are).

Now, Username's post was made somewhat in jest.  He's not really a redneck...  ;)

Anyway, yeah, I do insinuate certain things, but I think we're still misunderstanding each other.




One day maybe we will meet in some bar, hash this out over a couple of beers, and find out we are probably more in agreement than we think.  Writing it and saying it are two different things.

My father said that during WWII his unit went to the Netherlands and the black soldiers were an unusual sight and didn't want for female "companionship" at all, they were actually sought after.  The white European soldiers shrugged it off but it drove the white American soldiers absolutely crazy.  


I took a group of 23 guys to Japan back in 1986, and one of our group was a BIG (like 6'6", 250lb) black guy, when he was younger he had played college football.  He was muscular, pretty good looking.

When we walked through Tokyo, this guy pretty much stopped traffic.  He was the only black guy that ANY of us saw the whole time we were in Japan and he was so unique and so BIG that the Japanese all stopped to gawk, everywhere we went!  I imagine for many of them he was the first black guy they had seen. 

One night I left my room and went to the McDonald's around the corner and ordered a Big Mac, fries, and  a large Coke.  The counter clerks kept asking me "you only want one?".  I was like "damn, how hungry do I look?"  :P

Well the next morning my black buddy and I went in there for breakfast and he ordered like 5 McMuffins, 3 Hash Browns, 3 OJ's, and so on.  Turns out he did not really like Japanese food and was sneaking over to Mickey D's to eat.  They thought ALL Americans ate as much as my football player buddy!  ;D ;D