It was just announced that a US flagged ship was hijacked off of Africa today.  The crew of 20 Americans is believed to be safe.

This is getting to be a problem that has to be solved.  in 2008 there were 111 attacks on ships, and 42 actual hijackings.  And millions of dollars have been paid in ransom.

Maybe the UN should get the Marines to do a re-enactment of the resolution the US did to internation piracy in First Barbary War (1801-1805).

Either that, or maybe issue letters of marquis.

It was just announced that a US flagged ship was hijacked off of Africa today.  The crew of 20 Americans is believed to be safe.

This is getting to be a problem that has to be solved.  in 2008 there were 111 attacks on ships, and 42 actual hijackings.  And millions of dollars have been paid in ransom.

Maybe the UN should get the Marines to do a re-enactment of the resolution the US did to internation piracy in First Barbary War (1801-1805).

Either that, or maybe issue letters of marquis.


Letters of marque?  Arrr, me maties!

The rising piracy problem is mostly off the East African coast and in Indonesia.  You could send "privateers" out there to search for pirate vessels, but it's hard to tell a simple fishing boat from a ship full of criminals.  I don't see an easy answer here.

The rising piracy problem is mostly off the East African coast and in Indonesia.  You could send "privateers" out there to search for pirate vessels, but it's hard to tell a simple fishing boat from a ship full of criminals.  I don't see an easy answer here.


It should not be that hard.  Simply pull up and ask to see their catch.  If they have AK-47's and RPG instead of tuna, put them in the jug.

Or you can take the maskirovka approach.  Have an old junky looking ship pass through.  But under the apparent rust you have a good hull, and maybe a 5" cannon and grenade launchers hidden on the deck.  When the pirates try to take over, blow the mothers out of the water.

You get several of those passing through the area, then you can simply put a fake cannon on the deck of traditional merchant ships.  The pirates would more then likely see that and head the other way.

It should not be that hard.  Simply pull up and ask to see their catch.  If they have AK-47's and RPG instead of tuna, put them in the jug.

Or you can take the maskirovka approach.  Have an old junky looking ship pass through.  But under the apparent rust you have a good hull, and maybe a 5" cannon and grenade launchers hidden on the deck.  When the pirates try to take over, blow the mothers out of the water.

You get several of those passing through the area, then you can simply put a fake cannon on the deck of traditional merchant ships.  The pirates would more then likely see that and head the other way.


There are sure are a lot of fishermen out there and I can see Somalia and Indonesia making a fuss to the U.N. about ships full of American thugs pushing their citizens around.  Then once some Blackwater contractors blow an alleged pirate vessel down to the Davey Jones Locker, let the diplomatic disaster begin! 

There are sure are a lot of fishermen out there and I can see Somalia and Indonesia making a fuss to the U.N. about ships full of American thugs pushing their citizens around.  Then once some Blackwater contractors blow an alleged pirate vessel down to the Davey Jones Locker, let the diplomatic disaster begin! 


Who's gonna report it? 

The only nations with sufficiently-advanced technology to witness the battle are gonna be the nations whose ships are being attacked by the pirates.

Letters of marque and reprisal to make it legal, and a small fleet of Q-ships to get the job done.  The depression has sent a lot of perfectly functional cargo vessels idle, because it costs more money to keep the cargo ship ready for business than it would to sell it for scrap... and because you can't get any money for the scrap steel either.  Many bulk carriers would jump at the chance to "rent" an unused ship out to a suitably-armed international force for the task of hauling a "cargo" of heavy weaponry around the world's trouble spots. 

The only nations with sufficiently-advanced technology to witness the battle are gonna be the nations whose ships are being attacked by the pirates.


And the technology is quite impressive.  The last several days I have been watching telemetry of the incident, and the other ships in the area.  I even laughed as the MV Hansa Stavanger (German ship captured 4 April) sailed in circles.  It seems that they were trying to link up with the pirates on MV Maersk Amabama, but could not find it.

Maybe the solution would be submarines.  Simply have a sub follow likely targets.  Then when the pirates attack, surface between them and the target.  Or even better, surface under the attacking ship.

"Ooops, we did not mean to do that!  Let's see if we can rescue them before they drown.  Ooops, there goes another one."

.

Maybe the solution would be submarines.  Simply have a sub follow likely targets.  Then when the pirates attack, surface between them and the target.  Or even better, surface under the attacking ship.

"Ooops, we did not mean to do that!  Let's see if we can rescue them before they drown.  Ooops, there goes another one."


^LOL!      I like it  ;D

We could turn Somalia into a target range.

We could turn Somalia into a target range.


Or the UN could simply send in sufficient force to impose some law and order on Somalia until a somalian gov't could be established. in other words, deal with the cause, not the symptom

Or the UN could simply send in sufficient force to impose some law and order on Somalia until a somalian gov't could be established. in other words, deal with the cause, not the symptom


True... which makes me wonder why they haven't bothered with that.

There are sure are a lot of fishermen out there and I can see Somalia and Indonesia making a fuss to the U.N. about ships full of American thugs pushing their citizens around.  Then once some Blackwater contractors blow an alleged pirate vessel down to the Davey Jones Locker, let the diplomatic disaster begin! 


Somalia has done nothing to stop the problem so they have no right to complain.  What we need to do is to identify the villages that harbor the pirates, send in frogman teams, and dynamite every single floating vessel, whether it be wooden hulled, steel hulled, pleasure boat, or fishing trawler.  Sink every seaworthy boat on the Somalian coast and that will take care of things for a while.

All under UN supervision, of course.

Somalia has done nothing to stop the problem so they have no right to complain.  What we need to do is to identify the villages that harbor the pirates, send in frogman teams, and dynamite every single floating vessel, whether it be wooden hulled, steel hulled, pleasure boat, or fishing trawler.  Sink every seaworthy boat on the Somalian coast and that will take care of things for a while.

All under UN supervision, of course.


Then we take Indonesia?
???

Then we take Indonesia?
???


No, just sink every boat that floats in a pirate harbor.

Somalia has done nothing to stop the problem so they have no right to complain.

To be fair, there really isn't a functioning government in Somalia to impose any law and order. It's a lawless, anarchist state ruled by warlords and militias and gripped by civil war. It's no wonder that it's a breeding ground for criminal activities like piracy.

Or even better, surface under the attacking ship.

"Ooops, we did not mean to do that!  Let's see if we can rescue them before they drown.  Ooops, there goes another one."


Karma worthy for the laugh!

Ant

Or the UN could simply send in sufficient force to impose some law and order on Somalia until a somalian gov't could be established. in other words, deal with the cause, not the symptom


As has been stated, there is no Government in Somalia.  Just bickering warlords.

And much like the classic "is it wrong to steal food if your kids are starving", that is much the cause of this piracy.

In that area of the world, there is a history of useing starvation as a way to keep the people in check.  The initial pirate raids were mostly to get supplies.  Either food, or things they could sell for food.

Because of this, the pirates are look at in the area as heroes.  They are bringing in food, supplies, money, and weapons to a region where in the past they had been looked down upon by the warlords as nothing but "ignorant fishermen".


Somalia has done nothing to stop the problem so they have no right to complain.  What we need to do is to identify the villages that harbor the pirates, send in frogman teams, and dynamite every single floating vessel, whether it be wooden hulled, steel hulled, pleasure boat, or fishing trawler.  Sink every seaworthy boat on the Somalian coast and that will take care of things for a while.


True.  But then you will have a mass starvation that will make Ethiopia in the 1980's look like a Lent fasting.  Tens of thousands in the region rely on fishing for their food.  And for every pirate, there are 20 legitimate fishermen.

Trust me, I can pull up the radar tracks of the region.  There will be a hundred or more "trawler" tracks in the area, and a few in red (known pirate).  There are also some in yellow, most often marked "life boat".  These 2 are known or suspected pirates.

And not all of the lifeboats are pirates.  Some are poor fishermen useing anything they can get that floats.  Others are refugees attempting to flee the area.  Do we kill them also?

I suppose if there's any country that needs invading, Somalia would be it.

i seem to remember that got tried.

i seem to remember that got tried.


Indeed.  Clinton made the mistake of giving too much control to the U.N.

Somalia was an invasion that could've worked if we had been more practical and straightforward.

i seem to remember that got tried.


Somalia was not as much of an invasion, as much as an attempt to act as "Police" where "Military" was needed.

When 2 or more people want to fight each other, standing in the middle and yelling "Stop" is only a good way to ensure all sides will attack you.

Somalia was not as much of an invasion, as much as an attempt to act as "Police" where "Military" was needed.

"military" like in iraq? or more like in vietnam?

"military" like in iraq? or more like in vietnam?


How about Military, like in Cyprus.

When the UN established it's peacekeeping force there, they started by putting in a "Neutral Zone" between the Greek and Turkish districts.  They established military patrols, reacting with force if either side crossed the line.  And they responded in force when that happened.

And in the generation since, peace has been becomming a way of life for both sides.  40 years later, most of the UN has gone home.  The checkpoints have gone and people now cross between sides freely.  They have learned to live with their neighbors without killing each other.

How about Military, like in Cyprus.

When the UN established it's peacekeeping force there, they started by putting in a "Neutral Zone" between the Greek and Turkish districts.  They established military patrols, reacting with force if either side crossed the line.  And they responded in force when that happened.

And in the generation since, peace has been becomming a way of life for both sides.  40 years later, most of the UN has gone home.  The checkpoints have gone and people now cross between sides freely.  They have learned to live with their neighbors without killing each other.
well that seems fine, only in somalia apparently the borders and "neutral zones" would be really hard to draw. where do you draw them when you're dealing with multiple competing warlords rather than a pair of opposing forces?

well that seems fine, only in somalia apparently the borders and "neutral zones" would be really hard to draw. where do you draw them when you're dealing with multiple competing warlords rather than a pair of opposing forces?


Good points.  This is why I personally advocate an international invasion of Somalia with more leadership duties given to America (since we have the most force to offer).

The only way Somalia will advance past its chaotic state is through conquering the warlords and setting up a new government.

Because of this, the pirates are look at in the area as heroes.  They are bringing in food, supplies, money, and weapons to a region where in the past they had been looked down upon by the warlords as nothing but "ignorant fishermen".

True.  But then you will have a mass starvation that will make Ethiopia in the 1980's look like a Lent fasting.  Tens of thousands in the region rely on fishing for their food.  And for every pirate, there are 20 legitimate fishermen.

Trust me, I can pull up the radar tracks of the region.  There will be a hundred or more "trawler" tracks in the area, and a few in red (known pirate).  There are also some in yellow, most often marked "life boat".  These 2 are known or suspected pirates.

And not all of the lifeboats are pirates.  Some are poor fishermen useing anything they can get that floats.  Others are refugees attempting to flee the area.  Do we kill them also?


No killing.  Simply surround the vessel, board it, take the occupants to shore, and sink the boat.

Seems like a great way to enlist their support to quash the pirates.  They get the support of the locals by sharing the booty that they get from the hijackings.  So take away their support by showing people that piracy is not good for their financial health any more.

Sink every boat in maybe 4-5 villages and people in the other villages will get the message.  And yes, I mean EVERY seaworthy boat, yacht, dinghy and yellow rubber duck.

Bottom line, the people of Somalia are wrecking havoc on shipping lanes and causing innocent lives to be lost.  They see the 'jackers as heroes. As long as we allow this asymmetry of warfare to continue the problem will not be solved.

Assad in Syria knew what I am talking about, and he knew how to quash this sort of thing.  Call it "power of the people".

well that seems fine, only in somalia apparently the borders and "neutral zones" would be really hard to draw. where do you draw them when you're dealing with multiple competing warlords rather than a pair of opposing forces?


Simple, you draw them arbitrarily, along areas disputed by both.  You make them into "no mans land", and tell both sides that if anybody crosses, they will be attacked.

You also set up food distribution points.  Unlike the failed attempt in the 1990's, you protect them, and attack any warlord that tries to take the food.  You also make punative raids on warlords that try to keep people from going to the camps and food.

Civilized behavior can be forced at gunpoint.  Because either the warlords learn to be civilized, or they are no longer warlords.  It is rather hard to force people to do your bidding when you are dead.

Simple, you draw them arbitrarily, along areas disputed by both.  You make them into "no mans land", and tell both sides that if anybody crosses, they will be attacked.

You also set up food distribution points.  Unlike the failed attempt in the 1990's, you protect them, and attack any warlord that tries to take the food.  You also make punative raids on warlords that try to keep people from going to the camps and food.

Civilized behavior can be forced at gunpoint.  Because either the warlords learn to be civilized, or they are no longer warlords.  It is rather hard to force people to do your bidding when you are dead.


Problem is, the warlords are protected by civilians.  Are you prepared to go into those areas no-holds-barred?

I am.

Problem is, the warlords are protected by civilians.  Are you prepared to go into those areas no-holds-barred?

I am.
well grab a rifle and have at, then. no one's stoppin' ya. bag a civvie for me.

Problem is, the warlords are protected by civilians.  Are you prepared to go into those areas no-holds-barred?

I am.


If you look at it literally, they are all civilians.  They are self-appointed microgovernments.

And as such, anybody that takes up arms to support them would be classified with reason to be either military, or militia.  And if they took up arms to resist, then they would be treated as military with justification.

The silver lining here might be the children who got romantic ideas about piracy from "Pirates of the Caribbean" might be dispossessed of those delusions. 

Whole cruise ships have been taken hostage by just a few punks in a couple of motor boats. 

I should say it's high time for all vessels, business, martial, or pleasure, who sail the high seas to prepare piracy protocol so they'll know what to do just in case.

The silver lining here might be the children who got romantic ideas about piracy from "Pirates of the Caribbean" might be dispossessed of those delusions. 

Whole cruise ships have been taken hostage by just a few punks in a couple of motor boats. 

I should say it's high time for all vessels, business, martial, or pleasure, who sail the high seas to prepare piracy protocol so they'll know what to do just in case.


Some of them have been.  The MV Alabama was ready.  The crew followed protocols the Captain had in place before the attack happened.  Only 4 were captured, and the captain exchanged himself for them.  A brave man.

There was another one (I want to say it was a Dutch ship) that used fire hoses to subdue them.  That was a few months ago.

I think you are going to start to see a return to 17th century techniques.  Machine guns on board ships to keep pirates off.  Probably even some jobs for those trained in irregular warfare.  In most cases, a simple 50 cal machinegun will keep the pirates away.  It is hard to do anything when the good guys can "reach out and touch someone", from a mile away.

And if they do not want to mount machine guns on the ship, 2 trained people with sniper rifles can keep most of these scum away.  Most of them are armed with nothing more then AK-47s and RPG-7's.  These are both short range weapons.  Just shoot the gunners, and anybody that tries to get the gun.  Then shoot the motor and leave them to the military to pick up.


well grab a rifle and have at, then. no one's stoppin' ya. bag a civvie for me.


This type of action once again blurs the line between "military" and "civilian".  Technically, almost all criminals in the US are civilians.  But they can be as weel if not better armed then the military in some countries.  Look at the perps that did the North Hollywood Bank shootout a decade or so ago.  They were better armed and protected then the LAPD was.

To me, anybody that takes up arms is potentially a threat.  The difference is what they do with the gun.