Okay, I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Lutheran. But in my city, there has been many closings of Catholic Churches and two that are real popular on the West Side of Cleveland are shutting down...St. Coleman's and St. Ignatius.

Are there Catholic Churches closing around your region...and any of them popular churches?

None that I'm aware of.

In Quebec, so many catholic churches have been closed due to lack of interest, that many of the prettiest ones have sought aid from the province as cultural heritage sites.

You see, 50 years ago Quebec was like Ireland... virtually everyone (except the English) was Catholic and everyone went to mass. But after what's called the 'Quiet Revolution', which was basically the modernisation of the Quebec state, everyone quit going to church. All the traditional values were all but eliminated.

The problem with that is, many of those eliminated traditional values were never replaced with anything, which has left a lot of holes in the moral structure of the Province. People here are very confused about a lot of things, but they all seem to agree on one thing: Church is bad!

Religion is alive and well down here in North Carolina.

We've got Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, and probably will have Scientologists before long.

If anything, a little less religion here would probably be a good thing.

None that I'm aware of.

Me neither. The Los Angeles archdiocese has not closed any of 'em.

I've been a roman catholic all my life and have gone to church just about every Sunday...at various locations over time. My parents have been very involved in the catholic church too...until my mom was laid off from her job last August.

Diocese of Harrisburg hasn't closed any churches however they've been consolidating schools right and left.  Catholic has become bigger in the South and much smaller in the North.  No one should close the doors on the Catholic Church just yet.  In the 19 century it was much worse.

The Catholic Church in my area is thriving, it is busy for every Mass and if you turn up late it is standing room only.

Diocese of Harrisburg hasn't closed any churches however they've been consolidating schools right and left.  Catholic has become bigger in the South and much smaller in the North.  No one should close the doors on the Catholic Church just yet.  In the 19 century it was much worse.


Very true.  Much of the growth in Catholicism in the South is coming from Mexico and Brazil.  In addition to this, many Catholics from Pennsylvania have moved down to North Carolina.  I probably mentioned this before, but for whatever reason, many Pittsburghers and Philadelphians apparently really like NC.  Many of them have moved down here.  We also have a lot of people moving down from New Jersey (who are often Catholic as well).

Overall it would seem that a lot of Catholics from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey have moved to North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida because of lower costs of living, better weather, and/or better job opportunities.

Very true.  Much of the growth in Catholicism in the South is coming from Mexico and Brazil.  In addition to this, many Catholics from Pennsylvania have moved down to North Carolina.  I probably mentioned this before, but for whatever reason, many Pittsburghers and Philadelphians apparently really like NC.  Many of them have moved down here.  We also have a lot of people moving down from New Jersey (who are often Catholic as well).

Overall it would seem that a lot of Catholics from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey have moved to North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida because of lower costs of living, better weather, and/or better job opportunities.


My brother lives in South Carolina so he and his brood have added on to the Catholic population.  Catholics down South seem more radical for some reason.  I think perhaps maybe they're more confortable with the Southern mentality.  I've heard a few say the north has become too secular for them.

They ain't goin' nowheres around Boston, I tells ya!
;)

The only thing keeping the Catholic Church alive in Massachusetts is the recent immigrants from South America and the Islands.  A lot of the Irish/Roman/French Catholics took a big step back during the aftermath of the pedophile scandal.  The Cardinal, Bernard Law, who let it go on, was removed from Boston, then given a cushy job at the Vatican, and even officiated at the funeral of JPII, that pissed off a lot of people.  Some churches have been closed and parochial schools have been "consolidated". 

Not to be funny or ignorant, but how can one tell by name if a church is Catholic or not? I know the ones here are doing okay, but I know them by other things than their name.

There are a few new ones being built in town - no idea what denomination they are.

Ant

My brother lives in South Carolina so he and his brood have added on to the Catholic population.  Catholics down South seem more radical for some reason.  I think perhaps maybe they're more confortable with the Southern mentality.  I've heard a few say the north has become too secular for them.


That's what I've noticed.  The net effect seems to be that states like Pennsylvania are getting bluer, while states like mine are evolving into swing states slower than they normally would.

Still, at this point, North Carolina really isn't a red state anymore.  We're right-leaning, but we've become a swing state for all intensive purposes.

Are there Catholic Churches closing around your region...and any of them popular churches?


Yes, and don't know (not being Roman Catholic myself).

There are (or rather: were) three RC churches in the city I live in. I know one of them (only one block away from where I live) has been closed recently - much to the dislike of the parishioners.
A second church in a neighborhood in the southeast of the city is also going to be shut down. The trouble with that one is that it's part of a church building used by two denominations. This means the remaining denomination now either has to maintain the building by themselves, or close the church altogether. Sad thing is: the church was built less than 40 years ago.

Not to be funny or ignorant, but how can one tell by name if a church is Catholic or not? I know the ones here are doing okay, but I know them by other things than their name.

There are a few new ones being built in town - no idea what denomination they are.

Ant


All churches have a sign in front noting what denomination they are.  Since the Catholic church in our area is such a huge presence the fact that their numbers have been so drastically reduced is news.  The other organized religions are not as centralized, much more community based.

The only thing keeping the Catholic Church alive in Massachusetts is the recent immigrants from South America and the Islands.  A lot of the Irish/Roman/French Catholics took a big step back during the aftermath of the pedophile scandal.   The Cardinal, Bernard Law, who let it go on, was removed from Boston, then given a cushy job at the Vatican, and even officiated at the funeral of JPII, that pissed off a lot of people.  Some churches have been closed and parochial schools have been "consolidated". 


Can we bring back Ray Flynn to rally the clergy and get the word out?
;)

Can we bring back Ray Flynn to rally the clergy and get the word out?
;)


Sober him up first, see what happens  ;)

Sober him up first, see what happens  ;)

Heh-heh! The way he talked always reminded me of Cliff Claven!
;D

My Catholic Church was packed out this morning for Palm Sunday, it was standing room only and I think the church ran out of palms for the crosses.

That happens on the high holidays, but the rest of the year they tend to have problems with attendence

That happens on the high holidays, but the rest of the year they tend to have problems with attendence
Even on a normally Sunday it is packed, for we have several communities in our area that practice their religion at that church.

Even on a normally Sunday it is packed, for we have several communities in our area that practice their religion at that church.


I have heard that there is a new surge of Catholicism in England.  Didn't the former Prime Minister convert not too long ago?

I have heard that there is a new surge of Catholicism in England.  Didn't the former Prime Minister convert not too long ago?
That is true I forgotten about that. And there could be allowing Catholics to marry into the royal family.

That is true I forgotten about that. And there could be allowing Catholics to marry into the royal family.


Yes.  Perhaps there is starting to become a mutual acceptance in both Catholicism and the Anglican Church.  Henry the 8th is rolling over in his grave.

Yes.  Perhaps there is starting to become a mutual acceptance in both Catholicism and the Anglican Church.  Henry the 8th is rolling over in his grave.
Very appropiate for it is this year that King Henry VIII succeeded to the throne 500 years ago.

Yes.  Perhaps there is starting to become a mutual acceptance in both Catholicism and the Anglican Church.  Henry the 8th is rolling over in his grave.


Martin Luther may be spinning in his grave too when he hears what happened to the Lutheran Churches.

Martin Luther may be spinning in his grave too when he hears what happened to the Lutheran Churches.


A Lutheran friend of mine refers to his religion as "Catholic Lite"

;D

I think Jesus himself would roll over in his grave if he knew what was going on with his name

I think Jesus himself would roll over in his grave if he knew what was going on with his name


or in his name for that matter.

There is definitely not a problem in the town where I live.  The population is largely Catholic and the churches are well attended each week.

However in the city nearby there is more of a problem.  One or two churches have closed/merged over recent years I understand.

Religion is the people's opium.

These days they need their opium more than ever.

Religion is the people's opium.



Religious fundamentalism is the people's OxyContin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_rendeer.gif

Religious fundamentalism is the people's OxyContin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_rendeer.gif


There's nothing like the real thing though :D

St. Ignatius and St. Coleman's of Cleveland are saved.

Like I said...I'm Catholic Lite, so it doesn't effect me.

St. Ignatius and St. Coleman's of Cleveland are saved.

Like I said...I'm Catholic Lite, so it doesn't effect me.


There is no such things as a Catholic Lite. 

A Lutheran friend of mine refers to his religion as "Catholic Lite"

;D




There is no such things as a Catholic Lite. 



There is. It is called the Episcopal Church.



Cat

There is. It is called the Episcopal Church.



Cat


Interesting the Roman Catholic Church doesn't see them that way. :-\\

Interesting the Roman Catholic Church doesn't see them that way. :-\\



There are so many similarities between the services. I'm sure that a Catholic wouldn't be too lost in an Episcopal service and an Episcopalian wouldn't be too lost in a Catholic service.



Cat

There are so many similarities between the services. I'm sure that a Catholic wouldn't be too lost in an Episcopal service and an Episcopalian wouldn't be too lost in a Catholic service.



Cat


Not to mention the fact that older Episcopalian churches have parishioners buried in the walls of their churches. :o  I have yet to see that in a Catholic Church.

Not to mention the fact that older Episcopalian churches have parishioners buried in the walls of their churches. :o  I have yet to see that in a Catholic Church.



My grandparents are buried in the walls of an Episcopal church.  :-\\



Cat

My grandparents are buried in the walls of an Episcopal church.  :-\\



Cat


I didn't say there is anything wrong with that custom.  It just isn't normally done in Catholic Churches.  To be more specific one of my favorite places is such a place.

http://www.mjsabol.com/stjames426/index1.html

Too bad you can't get a good view of the alter.  People are interred there too.

I didn't say there is anything wrong with that custom.  It just isn't normally done in Catholic Churches.  To be more specific one of my favorite places is such a place.

http://www.mjsabol.com/stjames426/index1.html

Too bad you can't get a good view of the alter.  People are interred there too.



There are differences between the two faiths but my point being is that they are very close.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4424720_identify-differences-between-catholic-episcopal.html




Cat

There are differences between the two faiths but my point being is that they are very close.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4424720_identify-differences-between-catholic-episcopal.html




Cat


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01498a.htm

self explanatory.

There are so many similarities between the services. I'm sure that a Catholic wouldn't be too lost in an Episcopal service and an Episcopalian wouldn't be too lost in a Catholic service.



Cat


My dad was Catholic and my mom Episcopal.  We were raised Episcopal.  My idea of Episcopal is that of a Catholic who wants to divorce, that is the origin of the Episcopal church.  Henry VIII wanted a divorce, the pope said no, so he broke from the church, started his own church and made himself the head of it, and let himself get a divorce.  That is it in a nutshell. 

My dad was Catholic and my mom Episcopal.  We were raised Episcopal.  My idea of Episcopal is that of a Catholic who wants to divorce, that is the origin of the Episcopal church.  Henry VIII wanted a divorce, the pope said no, so he broke from the church, started his own church and made himself the head of it, and let himself get a divorce.  That is it in a nutshell. 



Exactly. I think every Episcopalian knows that.  ;)



Cat

My dad was Catholic and my mom Episcopal.  We were raised Episcopal.  My idea of Episcopal is that of a Catholic who wants to divorce, that is the origin of the Episcopal church.  Henry VIII wanted a divorce, the pope said no, so he broke from the church, started his own church and made himself the head of it, and let himself get a divorce.  That is it in a nutshell. 


You fail to mention the fact that he tried to eradicate any form of Catholicism including having a "Book of Common Prayers" writing to provide further distancing.  Being since I was raised Catholic we see things differently.

You fail to mention the fact that he tried to eradicate any form of Catholicism including having a "Book of Common Prayers" writing to provide further distancing.  Being since I was raised Catholic we see things differently.


I don't think we see things differently.  I was only giving very short "how it all began"  He didn't try to eradicate Catholicism per se, he tried to eradicate any one who wouldn't pledge their allegiance to him instead of the Pope.

I don't think we see things differently.  I was only giving very short "how it all began"  He didn't try to eradicate Catholicism per se, he tried to eradicate any one who wouldn't pledge their allegiance to him instead of the Pope.


Which is why Thomas More ended up in more than one piece.  :-\\

Which is why Thomas More ended up in more than one piece.  :-\\



Henry VIII was one of the lowest pieces of crap to inhabit the earth

Kathie is right.  I don't know too much of that history, but throughout history Catholics have been made to suffer for their religion, especially in St. Thomas More's case and John the Baptist,(who paved the way for Jesus) who also lost his head, and many others who stood up for their faith and followed Jesus.  Losing one's head was the general price to pay. :-\\

Oh!  And that is why there is no such thing as Catholic-Lite.   

I didn't know John the Baptist was a Catholic?  ???

Kathie is right.  I don't know too much of that history, but throughout history Catholics have been made to suffer for their religion, especially in St. Thomas More's case and John the Baptist,(who paved the way for Jesus) who also lost his head, and many others who stood up for their faith and followed Jesus.  Losing one's head was the general price to pay. :-\\

Oh!  And that is why there is no such thing as Catholic-Lite.   


Yet no mention of the Catholics making other people suffer.  Hello, Spanish Inquisition.

Yet no mention of the Catholics making other people suffer.  Hello, Spanish Inquisition.



Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.




Cat

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.




Cat


;D

I was gonna go find that picture, but I got too lazy.

;D

I was gonna go find that picture, but I got too lazy.



How about this one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM



Cat

How about this one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM



Cat


Mel Brooks rules all. ;D

I didn't know John the Baptist was a Catholic?  ???

He couldn't have been - the Catholic church (by which I mean the monolithic edifice ruled from Rome) didn't start up until Constantine, 300 years later.  What came before that was *completely* different.

...having said that, that isn't the story that the Catholic church tells.  But then, it wouldn't be, would it?

Yet no mention of the Catholics making other people suffer.  Hello, Spanish Inquisition.


You make no mention of the Dutch Inquisition where Protestants mercilessly tortured and killed Anabaptist. 

He couldn't have been - the Catholic church (by which I mean the monolithic edifice ruled from Rome) didn't start up until Constantine, 300 years later.  What came before that was *completely* different.

...having said that, that isn't the story that the Catholic church tells.  But then, it wouldn't be, would it?


Catholic tradition is said to date back to St. Peter (the first Pope).  However you are correct about the church not fully forming until Constantine.

You make no mention of the Dutch Inquisition where Protestants mercilessly tortured and killed Anabaptist. 

Mostly by drowing the anabaptists, which was ironic wasn't it.  

Mostly by drowing the anabaptists, which was ironic wasn't it.  



"Second baptism" I suppose.  You've read the Martyr's Mirror?

You make no mention of the Dutch Inquisition where Protestants mercilessly tortured and killed Anabaptist. 


Why should I?  I didn't come on here to get into debates about which religion sucks the worst in terms of their history.  I was just merely refuting adagio's point about Catholics being picked on.  If it had been about Protestants being picked on, then I would have brought up the point you just did.

Why should I?  I didn't come on here to get into debates about which religion sucks the worst in terms of their history.  I was just merely refuting adagio's point about Catholics being picked on.  If it had been about Protestants being picked on, then I would have brought up the point you just did.


Because your refute could be seen as the run of the mill anti-catholic rant.  I would hope that your intelligence is much more evolved than that.

Because your refute could be seen as the run of the mill anti-catholic rant.  I would hope that your intelligence is much more evolved than that.


No, it was more of a refute of adagio's belief in the fact that Catholicism is perfect, has never been wrong, and is always the victim, but never the instigator.

As for my intelligence, I've never claimed to be a MENSA member, just a run of the mill smartass with a few brief shining moments of snarkiness.

No, it was more of a refute of adagio's belief in the fact that Catholicism is perfect, has never been wrong, and is always the victim, but never the instigator.

As for my intelligence, I've never claimed to be a MENSA member, just a run of the mill smartass with a few brief shining moments of snarkiness.


Every person of a faith believes that their faith is perfect or else they wouldn't be that faith.  Right?

MENSA is overrated anyway. ::)

Catholic tradition is said to date back to St. Peter (the first Pope).  However you are correct about the church not fully forming until Constantine.

I know the tradition is said to date back to Peter, but it was only in the post-Constantine church that he was thought of as a "pope".  Before then, the church didn't have a heirarchy or a single leader: Constantine realized he'd be better off using rather than fighting this bunch of zealots, so he pretended to be converted, installed his own puppet as leader and hey presto! Roman Catholicism was born.

"Second baptism" I suppose.  You've read the Martyr's Mirror?

Nope. have not.

I know the tradition is said to date back to Peter, but it was only in the post-Constantine church that he was thought of as a "pope".  Before then, the church didn't have a heirarchy or a single leader: Constantine realized he'd be better off using rather than fighting this bunch of zealots, so he pretended to be converted, installed his own puppet as leader and hey presto! Roman Catholicism was born.

It is not proven whether he (Constantine) converted or not before he died.

It is not proven whether he (Constantine) converted or not before he died.

AIUI, he came off the battlefield after the Battle of Milvian Bridge claiming to have seen a burning cross, and that God had led him to victory.

I've got to point this out, though - from "History for Kids":
Constantine got a lot of Christian advisors at his court to tell him what the Christian God wanted, so he could be sure to keep God on his side. His advisors told him that God wanted Constantine to give a lot of money and land to the Church, and that God wanted the Church not to have to pay taxes, and Constantine did all those things.

I didn't know John the Baptist was a Catholic?  ???



I have heard some claim Jesus was Irish, but I digress.

Try to explain to some that Jesus was a Arab....and a Jew, as were all the Apostles.  Try to say that he probably looked more like Max Clinger, or Yasir Arafat, than Jim Caviezel.  HERESY!!!! Take down all those blond haired, blue eyed pictures, "The truth shall set you free"

I think the replies to my post shows we need a sarcastic smiley

I know the tradition is said to date back to Peter, but it was only in the post-Constantine church that he was thought of as a "pope".  Before then, the church didn't have a heirarchy or a single leader: Constantine realized he'd be better off using rather than fighting this bunch of zealots, so he pretended to be converted, installed his own puppet as leader and hey presto! Roman Catholicism was born.


More like a whole bunch of Bishops claiming they were the authority.  Constantine had to get rid of the headache somehow.  Tada the Council of Nicene.  Sometimes you just got to make people get their act together.

I think the replies to my post shows we need a sarcastic smiley



I know this was said in sincerity but it just struck me as funny.



Cat

I have heard some claim Jesus was Irish, but I digress.

Try to explain to some that Jesus was a Arab....and a Jew, as were all the Apostles.  Try to say that he probably looked more like Max Clinger, or Yasir Arafat, than Jim Caviezel.  HERESY!!!! Take down all those blond haired, blue eyed pictures, "The truth shall set you free"


Jesus was an Irishman. :o  Try explaining that to Mel Gibson who claims the Jews killed Jesus.  Jesus was a Jew and therefore subject to Jewish law.  I could never understand why Jesus had blue eyes.

I think the replies to my post shows we need a sarcastic smiley


Actually my reply to you needs a nodding agreeing smirk.

Jesus was an Irishman. :o  


I know, I know, 'coz he had 12 drinking buddies, no steady job, lived at home at the age of 33, and his mother thought he was God!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/pfiade.gif

I can see why catholic churches are failing. . .

The ped priests were bad. . .but I saw two churches just today that were both labeled catholic with the quote "God Only Answers Knee-Mail" as their advertising slogan. . .did they sleep the past ten years, or are they just really not good at thinking before they speak?  :o

I can see why catholic churches are failing. . .

The ped priests were bad. . .but I saw two churches just today that were both labeled catholic with the quote "God Only Answers Knee-Mail" as their advertising slogan. . .did they sleep the past ten years, or are they just really not good at thinking before they speak?  :o


I like that, "knee mail" joke, and so will all the sixth grade boys!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/naughty.gif

My uncle (in Italy during WW2) was abused by a Catholic Priest when he was about 8 years old, it screwed him up for life.  My mom refuses to have anything to do with any church resulting from that incident. It's sad.

I know, I know, 'coz he had 12 drinking buddies, no steady job, lived at home at the age of 33, and his mother thought he was God!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/pfiade.gif


That explains everything. :)

I can see why catholic churches are failing. . .

The ped priests were bad. . .but I saw two churches just today that were both labeled catholic with the quote "God Only Answers Knee-Mail" as their advertising slogan. . .did they sleep the past ten years, or are they just really not good at thinking before they speak?  :o


If priest are peds why did one priest protect me on several occasions from a family member that was abusing me?  Not every priest abuses.  Anyone who thinks that is pretty lame.  I won't say it doesn't happen however to say they all do it is asinine.

If priest are peds why did one priest protect me on several occasions from a family member that was abusing me?  Not every priest abuses.  Anyone who thinks that is pretty lame.  I won't say it doesn't happen however to say they all do it is asinine.


More the point is that the church covered it up, moved the priests into another parish rather than into prison and generally denied it was happening. 

More the point is that the church covered it up, moved the priests into another parish rather than into prison and generally denied it was happening. 


Not all Diocese did/do.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that perhaps they're should be more intense screening of seminarians perhaps even allow marriage.  Not that this would solve what has already been done but prevent it in the future.  It is never acceptable to cover up any form of abuse, even if it may mean destroying the old and making changes.

If priest are peds why did one priest protect me on several occasions from a family member that was abusing me?  Not every priest abuses.  Anyone who thinks that is pretty lame.  I won't say it doesn't happen however to say they all do it is asinine.


Well that's fine, I didn't say all priests, maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions. . .my childhood priest wasn't either. . .I believe I said "The Ped Priests", meaning those that are peds.

Well that's fine, I didn't say all priests, maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions. . .my childhood priest wasn't either. . .I believe I said "The Ped Priests", meaning those that are peds.


Did you see what was posted after it?  I'm not quite sure if I really was jumping to conclusions.  Out of curiosity does anyone have statistics on what percent of priest are peds.

Did you see what was posted after it?  I'm not quite sure if I really was jumping to conclusions.  Out of curiosity does anyone have statistics on what percent of priest are peds.


I'm looking up stats now, I doubt they are any more or less likely to be pedophiles, of course not all convicted of a crime of that nature are "pedophiles" but I would have trouble believing anyone who has relations with someone in their single digits in age is not attracted to children.

You inserted that people who claim all priest are peds to be "lame", which indirectly is an aggressive stance and was in direct reply to something I said, I (like you with mine) read too much into your statement.  I do not believe "all priests are pedophiles", I don't even believe a good portion of them are, but they are in a position of authority, and like teachers/councilors they have more opportunity and responsibility with children, so it's a position I feel that a person who knows themselves to be attracted to little kids should not get into in the first place.  I apologize for taking your statement in a defensive stance, but hopefully you understand why I did. . .

PS I'm looking up stats right now on the "priests scandal"

The John Jay Report: "The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Defines pedophilia in general, which strictly speaking is when someone has sexual attractions to prepubescent children (generally under 13), notice attraction is important, not all offenses of this nature are committed by pedophiles as some are committed as crimes of opportunity, not that it makes a difference.  Most offenses by priests have actually been hebaphilia (?SP) which is when someone has sexual attractions to mid age teens (13, 14, and depending on the region 15, 16, 17 and even 18, 19 or 20 in parts of the world)  In this age group often it's not a hebaphile per say that commits the offense, though again in Priesthood, it's unlikely a priest can honestly say they didn't know the age of their victim.

The John Jay Report: "The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests"

My guess is that's a vastly inflated number as some not-particularly-scrupulous people realized they might be able to make money out of the Catholic church - 4% (one in 25 priests) would be extremely high.

One of the points David Yallop makes in his book "In God's Name: An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul I" is that priests take vows of loyalty to the church, not to God or their flocks.  In the context of the allegations of paedophilia, the behaviour of pretty much all the church hierarchy was to protect the church, not the children.  It was only when it became public knowledge that the church was forced into action.

My guess is that's a vastly inflated number as some not-particularly-scrupulous people realized they might be able to make money out of the Catholic church - 4% (one in 25 priests) would be extremely high.

One of the points David Yallop makes in his book "In God's Name: An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul I" is that priests take vows of loyalty to the church, not to God or their flocks.  In the context of the allegations of paedophilia, the behaviour of pretty much all the church hierarchy was to protect the church, not the children.  It was only when it became public knowledge that the church was forced into action.


Oh I agree whole heartedly, it's probably inflated quite a bit, just like the number of boys who claim MJ . . well that'd be inappropriate here, there is no way to know for certain.

I'm looking up stats now, I doubt they are any more or less likely to be pedophiles, of course not all convicted of a crime of that nature are "pedophiles" but I would have trouble believing anyone who has relations with someone in their single digits in age is not attracted to children.

You inserted that people who claim all priest are peds to be "lame", which indirectly is an aggressive stance and was in direct reply to something I said, I (like you with mine) read too much into your statement.  I do not believe "all priests are pedophiles", I don't even believe a good portion of them are, but they are in a position of authority, and like teachers/councilors they have more opportunity and responsibility with children, so it's a position I feel that a person who knows themselves to be attracted to little kids should not get into in the first place.  I apologize for taking your statement in a defensive stance, but hopefully you understand why I did. . .

PS I'm looking up stats right now on the "priests scandal"


I gotcha.  It just hit a nerve.  Looking back on it I was harsh.  I am sorry.  Right they are like teachers and therefore should be expected not to be attracted to little kids.  I know some seminaries are really beefing up their Psych evaluations.  Unfortunately they're also targeting gay men who have no interest in children and who wish to be celibate.  They need to find a solution that doesn't involve getting or targeting the wrong people.

I gotcha.  It just hit a nerve.  Looking back on it I was harsh.  I am sorry.  Right they are like teachers and therefore should be expected not to be attracted to little kids.  I know some seminaries are really beefing up their Psych evaluations.  Unfortunately they're also targeting gay men who have no interest in children and who wish to be celibate.  They need to find a solution that doesn't involve getting or targeting the wrong people.


Agreed 100%  :) Karma

The John Jay Report: "The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Defines pedophilia in general, which strictly speaking is when someone has sexual attractions to prepubescent children (generally under 13), notice attraction is important, not all offenses of this nature are committed by pedophiles as some are committed as crimes of opportunity, not that it makes a difference.  Most offenses by priests have actually been hebaphilia (?SP) which is when someone has sexual attractions to mid age teens (13, 14, and depending on the region 15, 16, 17 and even 18, 19 or 20 in parts of the world)  In this age group often it's not a hebaphile per say that commits the offense, though again in Priesthood, it's unlikely a priest can honestly say they didn't know the age of their victim.




I know of one case where the priest was attracted to teen boys however it was never an active attraction.  They felt they had to get rid of him so they defrocked him for being gay.  Interestingly enough he now works for a travel agency and his partner is the same age he is.  I think he was a victim of hysteria.

I know of one case where the priest was attracted to teen boys however it was never an active attraction.  They felt they had to get rid of him so they defrocked him for being gay.  Interestingly enough he now works for a travel agency and his partner is the same age he is.  I think he was a victim of hysteria.


Sounds like it to me, that's unfortunate, but I'm happy for him that he was able to put it behind him, and it sounds like--do even better without the church

Sounds like it to me, that's unfortunate, but I'm happy for him that he was able to put it behind him, and it sounds like--do even better without the church


Yeah, he understands what happened and he hopes the church gets well soon. ;D