This is something that has both myself and my wife (a Democrat) so furious we can hardly believe it.

It seems that in the interest of saving around $540 million, our President wants to stop providing health care to veterans, even those with service connected dissabilities.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/obama.veterans/

This is such a disgusting dishonor to our Veterans that I can't imagine any sane person even thinking of this measure.  And if this is his idea of "Universal Health Care", all I can say is that everybody in this nation is in a lot of trouble. 

I'm with you on this one!  Hey, Obama's pal Gov. Deval Patrick here in Massatwosheeshs wants low income families to save 30% of their income or face eviction from public housing...
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/disgust.gif

And people say I'm the one who's cynical!
::)

This is something that has both myself and my wife (a Democrat) so furious we can hardly believe it.

It seems that in the interest of saving around $540 million, our President wants to stop providing health care to veterans, even those with service connected dissabilities.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/obama.veterans/

This is such a disgusting dishonor to our Veterans that I can't imagine any sane person even thinking of this measure.  And if this is his idea of "Universal Health Care", all I can say is that everybody in this nation is in a lot of trouble. 


Maybe I'm reading the article wrong, but it doesn't say anywhere in the article that he's trying to save $540 million.  It says he's trying to generate that amount for the Department of Veteran Affairs and to get Veterans' private insurance companies to pay for treatments.  Is that the same thing?

And if we go with Universal Health Care, then wouldn't the government be paying for the bulk of their treatments anyways?

I'm confused.

Maybe I'm reading the article wrong, but it doesn't say anywhere in the article that he's trying to save $540 million.  It says he's trying to generate that amount for the Department of Veteran Affairs and to get Veterans' private insurance companies to pay for treatments.  Is that the same thing?

And if we go with Universal Health Care, then wouldn't the government be paying for the bulk of their treatments anyways?

I'm confused.


Save-Generate, it amounts to the same thing.

And nobody should be paying for this except the Government.  After all, we are talking about Service Connected Dissabilities.  That is the equivelent to you getting hurt on the job, and the company demanding that you use private insurance other then Workers Comp.

And when you take into account things like Insurance Caps and Deductables and Co-Pays, that is shuffling a huge amount of cost onto the Veterans themselves.  Not to mention what will happen if the Veteran maxes his annual billable amount, which then leaves the rest of his/her family with no health care at all.

And by the way, the VA is a classic example of Universal Health Care.  I had to fight tooth and nail to get any treatment at all for my Service Connected Dissability.  Now the President wants everybody to suffer under an even worse system.  And make private companies pay for the cost of treating Veterans.  That will also mean higher insurance bills for everybody.

Here is a speech President Obama gave the same day he announced this newest idea.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/03/president_pledg.html

On one moment he promises increased support.  Then on the very next, he threatens to cut off that support.

I guess this is what happens when we elect a lawyer.

This is clearly an ill advised idea for any number of reasons, but it does point up the need for major reforms in the health care field.  Universal, single payer is clearly the answer.

I have been receiving health care from the V.A. for almost 20 (?  :o :o ) years now. No, it is not perfect and there have been several times that I had to call Bernie Sanders (then Congressman) for the V.A. to pay for my annual mammogram-but that was because of the fact that someone along the way screwed up. I figured out what the problem was and that problem has been solved. Overall, I have received good care (not outstanding-but good) even though most of my care comes from a contracted clinic rather than directly at the V.A. (even though I have received care there). 

I am hoping that Obama does drop this. I hope he will listen to those of us who will be affected by this change-and if he does listen he will drop it.



Cat

My thoughts on O'bamas veteran policy:

It is unconscionable to expect vets to get their own insurance to cover service-related injuries.  "Hey Sgt Snorkel, sorry about that amputated leg.  Hope ya got a good Blue Cross Plan!"  UNBELIEVEABLE.  :o

On the other hand, I have mixed feelings about using the VA to provide health benefits for all veterans for all conditions.  So I serve in the Army for 4 years and that gets me lifetime health benefits?  I could see this for "lifers" who put in their 25-30 years, or for actual combat vets, I suppose.  But I have never understood why there would be any sort of lifetime entitlement (but maybe I do not really understand what is and is not provided, admittedly)...

My thoughts on O'bamas veteran policy:

It is unconscionable to expect vets to get their own insurance to cover service-related injuries.  "Hey Sgt Snorkel, sorry about that amputated leg.  Hope ya got a good Blue Cross Plan!"  UNBELIEVEABLE.  :o

On the other hand, I have mixed feelings about using the VA to provide health benefits for all veterans for all conditions.  So I serve in the Army for 4 years and that gets me lifetime health benefits?  I could see this for "lifers" who put in their 25-30 years, or for actual combat vets, I suppose.  But I have never understood why there would be any sort of lifetime entitlement (but maybe I do not really understand what is and is not provided, admittedly)...

I agree with you, overhere is the same, to the point people join the army mainly because of the benefits. I guess they see it as any other "working for the state" job...

i condemn this policy too, but i take from it the opposite lesson than some others -- this is a condemnation of the private denial-of-care-for-profit "healthcare" system. if private healthcare were effective then it really would be redundant to have the public insure private policy holders. but because vets know they will get substandard and sporadic care from the private system, and will pay large portions out of pocket, they resist using their private policies when the VA provides more reliable care. and i dont blame them. but if the private system worked, there would be no need for the public system to come in and provide a service the private system was providing already.

On the other hand, I have mixed feelings about using the VA to provide health benefits for all veterans for all conditions.  So I serve in the Army for 4 years and that gets me lifetime health benefits?  I could see this for "lifers" who put in their 25-30 years, or for actual combat vets, I suppose.  But I have never understood why there would be any sort of lifetime entitlement (but maybe I do not really understand what is and is not provided, admittedly)...


There are only a few cases where a Veteran can use the VA medical system.

Primarily, it is reserved for those with service connected dissabilities.  They get 100% treatment, but only for that disability.

It is also useable for veterans that are full time students.  This is only a temporary benefit, because it is recognized that while a student, people normally do not have health care.  Once they graduate (or drop out) this benefit ends.

It also provides 100% medical to those that are retired, either after serving their full 20+ years, or those that have been medically retired (30%+ disability).

It also acts as a "provider of last resort", for veterans that have health issues and no private insurance (or if their private insurance has been maxed out).

I qualified for VA benefits for my injury in 1990, and for my hearing damage and back injury during my term of service.  And that and $1 got me a cup of coffee.  The system is worse then attrocious.


iif private healthcare were effective then it really would be redundant to have the public insure private policy holders. but because vets know they will get substandard and sporadic care from the private system, and will pay large portions out of pocket, they resist using their private policies when the VA provides more reliable care. and i dont blame them. but if the private system worked, there would be no need for the public system to come in and provide a service the private system was providing already.


But the VA does not work.  It is a horrible failure, and a perfect example to me of what it would be like if the Government ran the show.

In the 14 years after I got out of the Marines, I was able to actually get treatment a total of 2 times.  I fought with them for years, because they insisted that either I was not injured, or that my injury was not covered by them.  Even when I was a full time student (2000), they denied my treatment saying that I was not a full time student.

I was living in a Veterans Shelter in LA, and everybody had the same story.  Our treatment came from a retired Navy Doctor, who volunteered at a clinic on site.

One friend of mine was even diagnosed with prostate cancer.  Medically disabled, he was denied treatment for 9 months!  He finally won his appeals, but it did no good.  2 weeks after he was admitted for treatment he died from cancer.

I can tell youother horror stories, as can most Veterans that have gone through the VA.  My wife did her internship at a VA Hospital and she has told me similar stories.  Unless you are retired, it is almost impossible to get any kind of quality care from the VA.

well right now neither system works, and a big part of the problem is that we're dividing the work between the two. you dont get any economy of scale that way.

there's no way to profit off sick people. that's why privatized health care is a nonstarter. the second someone gets sick the private healthcare system works 24/7 to kick them out on the street. and of course they would; the profit has dried up at that point.

if what you say is true, why care? why is it such an outrage that the administration wants to cut VA if it doesn't work anyway?

What we need is the French system.  Unfortunately, it's doubtful we'll ever get something like that, because it would require taxing the rich more, which apparently half of the country is adamantly against.

What we need is the French system.  Unfortunately, it's doubtful we'll ever get something like that, because it would require taxing the rich more, which apparently half of the country is adamantly against.
everyone who listens to rush limbaugh will be rich someday, so naturally they're opposed to any measure like that.

i actually agree with you though. i kid.

On the other hand, I have mixed feelings about using the VA to provide health benefits for all veterans for all conditions.  So I serve in the Army for 4 years and that gets me lifetime health benefits?  I could see this for "lifers" who put in their 25-30 years, or for actual combat vets, I suppose.  But I have never understood why there would be any sort of lifetime entitlement (but maybe I do not really understand what is and is not provided, admittedly)...


To prevent scenarios like this:

* a grizzled old man is diagnosed with cancer in the year 2048 *

Insurance bureaucrat: "You must have been exposed to something really nasty during the Internet Wars of the early 2010s.  Pre-existing condition.  Coverage denied."

MilitaryVA bureaucrat: "We never exposed our troops to unsafe levels of anything during the Great Flamewar."

Veteran:  "But I never saw action, I spent the whole four years peeling potatoes!"

Insurance bureaucrat:  "Four years peeling potatoes?  Why didn't you tell us?  We're also denying coverage on your carpal tunnel syndrome treatments!"

MilitaryVA bureaucrat:  "Yep, four years of potato-peeling.  See, we told you you weren't exposed to anything carcinogenic while serving with us.  Coverage denied."

Edit: What I meant to say was...


Actually, I find no fault with the Military Healthcare System.  They have always gone above and beyond the nessicary treatment when I needed it.

The VA is not run by the Military.  It is a civilian organization run by bureau-rats, who's entire reason to exist seems to be to deny claims.  And it is even worse then an HMO, because you can't threaten to sue them.


...what he said.  I've amended the joke accordingly :)

To prevent scenarios like this:

* a grizzled old man is diagnosed with cancer in the year 2048 *

Insurance bureaucrat: "You must have been exposed to something really nasty during the Internet Wars of the early 2010s.  Pre-existing condition.  Coverage denied."

Military bureaucrat: "We never exposed our troops to unsafe levels of anything during the Great Flamewar."


Actually, I find no fault with the Military Healthcare System.  They have always gone above and beyond the nessicary treatment when I needed it.

The VA is not run by the Military.  It is a civilian organization run by bureau-rats, who's entire reason to exist seems to be to deny claims.  And it is even worse then an HMO, because you can't threaten to sue them.

To prevent scenarios like this:

* a grizzled old man is diagnosed with cancer in the year 2048 *

Insurance bureaucrat: "You must have been exposed to something really nasty during the Internet Wars of the early 2010s.  Pre-existing condition.  Coverage denied."

Military bureaucrat: "We never exposed our troops to unsafe levels of anything during the Great Flamewar."

Veteran:  "But I never saw action, I spent the whole four years peeling potatoes!"

Insurance bureaucrat:  "Four years peeling potatoes?  Why didn't you tell us?  We're also denying coverage on your carpal tunnel syndrome treatments!"

Military bureaucrat:  "Yep, four years of potato-peeling.  See, we told you you weren't exposed to anything carcinogenic while serving with us.  Coverage denied."
oh emm gee! the internet really IS serious business!  :o

I have a feeling, that Obama's term of president will be short lived, with people calling for him to reign.

And McCain will be the next president.

I have a feeling, that Obama's term of president will be short lived, with people calling for him to reign.

And McCain will be the next president.
well, i'll certainly give that points for being a very unique prediction.

Thanks.

I have a feeling, that Obama's term of president will be short lived, with people calling for him to reign.

And McCain will be the next president.


Or maybe ask georgieboy to come back since he did such a good job

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post is the fact that the VA has ALWAYS used private insurance companies if they can. When I first signed up at the VA, they asked me if I had private insurance-I didn't. I have had some over the course of the time I used the VA but never told them that. I had forgotten about it until yesterday when I received an automated call for an appointment I have tomorrow. They told me to bring my insurance card if I had one. So, this isn't new.



Cat

there's no way to profit off sick people. that's why privatized health care is a nonstarter.

the second someone gets sick the private healthcare system works 24/7 to kick them out on the street. and of course they would; the profit has dried up at that point.

if what you say is true, why care? why is it such an outrage that the administration wants to cut VA if it doesn't work anyway?


That's the essential problem.  For-profit HMOs are completely immoral.  However, it is the Republican way...the more money you have, the more worthy you are of society's benefits. 

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post is the fact that the VA has ALWAYS used private insurance companies if they can. When I first signed up at the VA, they asked me if I had private insurance-I didn't. I have had some over the course of the time I used the VA but never told them that. I had forgotten about it until yesterday when I received an automated call for an appointment I have tomorrow. They told me to bring my insurance card if I had one. So, this isn't new.



Cat


They try to coordinate benefits.  In terms of government, they will cover what the private insurance won't.  So you are right.  This is not new.  What the administration is probably doing is trying to get the private insurance companies to cover what they are supposed to.

i saw in the paper obama took this proposal off the table today.

i saw in the paper obama took this proposal off the table today.


He took it back? What a loser ::)

Or maybe ask georgieboy to come back since he did such a good job


::)

That's not such a bad idea............

Not.....

;D

Or maybe ask georgieboy to come back since he did such a good job


:rofl:

Ant

I have a feeling, that Obama's term of president will be short lived, with people calling for him to reign.

And McCain will be the next president.


If Obama loses a second term, it's doubtful that McCain will be the next president.  He's getting pretty old.

The GOP is much more likely to run someone like Bobby Jindal.

If Obama loses a second term, it's doubtful that McCain will be the next president.  He's getting pretty old.

The GOP is much more likely to run someone like Bobby Jindal.



Someone like Jindal, but not Jindal himself.  He is too much of a caricature.  They are probably searching hard for someone.

Someone like Jindal, but not Jindal himself.  He is too much of a caricature.  They are probably searching hard for someone.

True, they might go with someone like Mark Sanford.

Actually, I find no fault with the Military Healthcare System.  They have always gone above and beyond the nessicary treatment when I needed it.

The VA is not run by the Military.  It is a civilian organization run by bureau-rats, who's entire reason to exist seems to be to deny claims.  And it is even worse then an HMO, because you can't threaten to sue them.


Duly noted, and the original hypothetical story has been fixed accordingly.  You said exactly what I (as a civvie) was thinking, except that (as someone serving) you got the blame assigned correctly.