With the admission that drug wars are spilling into 10 US States..gee! a border wall or beefed up guard squad could have helped don't you think?

But NO! That would make us prejudiced or phobic!

Yet Mexico blames US(us) as we are part of the reason the drug trade is thriving!

So what happens THE US THROWS 1 BILLION$+  to Mexico...

We would have been better using it... ah,....what a workd people put up with!

cause a big assed wall along the US/Mexico border will totally eliminate the drug problem in the US  ::)

cause a big assed wall along the US/Mexico border will totally eliminate the drug problem in the US  ::)


Yeah, cause apparently we can't climb walls. ;D

A wall is a moot point anyway.  I wonder if saver ever heard of that long assed tunnel they built that led all the way into San Diego.  Thing had electricity and air shaft vents.  It was wildly amusing....to me, anyways.

Yeah, cause apparently we can't climb walls. ;D

A wall is a moot point anyway.  I wonder if saver ever heard of that long assed tunnel they built that led all the way into San Diego.  Thing had electricity and air shaft vents.  It was wildly amusing....to me, anyways.


apparently not.. and that tunnel has been around since the 80s or longer...

Relax, dude.

Mexico is even more doomed than we are.  The billion and change we threw 'em is chump change to keep 'em afloat for a few more months.  If they collapse, you'll get the militarized border you're looking for.

The ironic thing about the German Democratic Republic (much like the USSR, every word in its name was a contradiction in terms) was that they said the Berlin Wall was to keep the Americans (fleeing the collapsing capitalist West Germany) out of East Germany's socialist paradise. 

The ironic thing about the United States of America (in a triumph of branding, we named our country such that only one of the words in its names could ever be untrue :-) is that the people who spent the past eight years most forcefully arguing for a militarized US/Mexico border are the ones who belonged the Elephant wing of The Party.  And they're the ones who claim most vehemently not to like "socialism". 

Go figure.  But all politics aside, even if the entire planet goes Mad Max, we Yankees can relax.  Mexico falls before we do.

i like enchiladas.

and refried beans. they're awesome.

just tamales for me please  ;D

He also failed to mention that they got their decapitation skills from members of Al Quida who are vacationing in Tijuana.  Yes, the drug war down in Mexico and beyond is bad but how does ceasing aid to the country help?  It isn't the Mexican government who are being the drug lords.

Who wants so Sangria??? ;D ;D ;D

just tamales for me please  ;D



Ooh, tamales. Love them. As well as enchiladas, fajitas, & tacos.



Cat

He also failed to mention that they got their decapitation skills from members of Al Quida who are vacationing in Tijuana.  Yes, the drug war down in Mexico and beyond is bad but how does ceasing aid to the country help? 
sounds like the same genius theory that dictates that you improve failing schools by cutting their funding.  ::)

oh, and tamales also rock. or burritos. when it comes to drug-funded mexican food, i'm easy.

sounds like the same genius theory that dictates that you improve failing schools by cutting their funding.  ::)

oh, and tamales also rock. or burritos. when it comes to drug-funded mexican food, i'm easy.


Which is why kids can't spell worth a darn but yet they have abstinence only programs.  It must be one of them Republican notions or something.

Forget Taco Hell we're going to Mexico.  Who renting the surplus army tank?

Yet Mexico blames US(us) as we are part of the reason the drug trade is thriving!


But I happen to agree with that.  The problems with the powerfull drug lords is caused by the insatiable appetite of people in the US for Marijuanna.

Those that support legalization do not seem to realize that it also causes crime in other countries.  And legalizing it will do nothing to stop that.  Tobacco and Alcohol are legal in the US, but that still has not stopped the thriving business in selling bootleg cigarettes and alcohol in order to avoid the taxes.

I live in El Paso, just across the Rio Grande from Juarez.  In that city alone, there were 1,600 deaths last year due to the drug war.  Compare that to the 314 servicemen killed in Iraq for the same time period.  It is safer to walk down the street in Bagdad then to walk down the street in Juarez.  And nation wide in Mexico, the death toll in 2008 was over 6,000 people.

And that is only getting higher.  In the first 2½ months of 2009, 1,113 people have died in Mexico because of this drug war.  And it is spreading not only to the US, but Canada.  A drug war is going on right now in Vancouver, Canada because supplies are down and the gangs are fighting for what supply there is (and because of bad weather most of the local marijuanna crop was destroyed).

Just 2 weeks ago, a friend of mine lost his Cousin, who was visiting Juarez.  He worked in the US as a mechanic, and was visiting family when he was gunned down returning to his car.

It sadly brings to mind the cliche about a tragedy and a statistic.  With so many dead, it is becomming a nation of tragedies.  And my friend (who was born in Juarez) has long talked about having the Army take some M-1 tanks and just driving them a few miles south and eliminating this cancer.

What about the Columbians, the Panamanians, and the Americans who also manufacture and distribute drugs... why does everyone blame everything on Mexico?

What about the Columbians, the Panamanians, and the Americans who also manufacture and distribute drugs... why does everyone blame everything on Mexico?


I do not blame Mexico.  I blame the drug users and sellers in this country (and others, like Canada).  It is because of them that people break the law in their own countries.

If we could arrest and put our drug users in prison, it will eliminate the huge demand that is causing the problems in countries like Mexico and Columbia.

I do not blame Mexico.  I blame the drug users and sellers in this country (and others, like Canada).  It is because of them that people break the law in their own countries.

If we could arrest and put our drug users in prison, it will eliminate the huge demand that is causing the problems in countries like Mexico and Columbia.


sorry man I was still talking to saver.

sorry man I was still talking to saver.


My bad, sorry about that.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/faga7.gif

My bad, sorry about that.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/faga7.gif


no worries it was an honest assumption...

The problems with the powerfull drug lords is caused by the insatiable appetite of people in the US for Marijuanna.
Make that *money*

Let's face it- that's why the "war on drugs" is never going to be won, not while there are millions of people willing to pay billions to someone to supply the drugs...

Those that support legalization do not seem to realize that it also causes crime in other countries.  And legalizing it will do nothing to stop that.  Tobacco and Alcohol are legal in the US, but that still has not stopped the thriving business in selling bootleg cigarettes and alcohol in order to avoid the taxes.
But even you will have to admit that the crime involved in bootleg cigarettes and alcohol is as nothing to the crime caused by the illegal drugs.  It's trivial and petty when compared to the way cocaine/morphine barons have the money and power to run whole countries, and screw things up for *everyone*.

I live in El Paso, just across the Rio Grande from Juarez.  In that city alone, there were 1,600 deaths last year due to the drug war.  Compare that to the 314 servicemen killed in Iraq for the same time period.  It is safer to walk down the street in Bagdad then to walk down the street in Juarez.  And nation wide in Mexico, the death toll in 2008 was over 6,000 people.

And that is only getting higher.  In the first 2½ months of 2009, 1,113 people have died in Mexico because of this drug war.  And it is spreading not only to the US, but Canada.  A drug war is going on right now in Vancouver, Canada because supplies are down and the gangs are fighting for what supply there is (and because of bad weather most of the local marijuanna crop was destroyed).
Yeah... the war on drugs is really working, isn't it?


If we could arrest and put our drug users in prison, it will eliminate the huge demand that is causing the problems in countries like Mexico and Columbia.

The US already imprisons more of its population than nearly every other country in the world.  If you put all the drug users in prison, the whole country would shut down, and you'd be broke from the cost of it before the year was out.

Being harder on drug users and street dealers ain't working now, and ain't never going to, neither.

The US already imprisons more of its population than nearly every other country in the world.  If you put all the drug users in prison, the whole country would shut down, and you'd be broke from the cost of it before the year was out.

Being harder on drug users and street dealers ain't working now, and ain't never going to, neither.


Of course, we can always execute them.  That is the penalty in 16 countries, and they all have very low drug rates.  Maybe there is something in common between harsh penalties and crime.

And in 2 weeks, I am going to be in one of those countries for the next year.  For all the problems in the Middle East, at least they have the right idea in dealing with drug traffickers.  Beheading, firing squad, and public stoning tends to be a damned good deterent IMHO.

Of course, we can do like India.  There, the death penalty is only served on a second drug trafficking conviction.

This is where we should call on the expertise of people such as bush1 and ollie north.  After all bush1, while head of the CIA found drugs a wonderful way to finance covert operations. Ollie North, well he was the bagman.  They should know more than anyone how to try to stop the drug trade since they were so deeply involved.

This is where we should call on the expertise of people such as bush1 and ollie north.  After all bush1, while head of the CIA found drugs a wonderful way to finance covert operations. Ollie North, well he was the bagman.  They should know more than anyone how to try to stop the drug trade since they were so deeply involved.


have I told you lately that I love you  ;)    ;D

I live in El Paso, just across the Rio Grande from Juarez.  In that city alone, there were 1,600 deaths last year due to the drug war.  Compare that to the 314 servicemen killed in Iraq for the same time period.  It is safer to walk down the street in Bagdad then to walk down the street in Juarez.  And nation wide in Mexico, the death toll in 2008 was over 6,000 people.



'Shroom, some of your fine citizens made it up to the Picksburgh area last year and snuffed a married couple, execution style.

The wife had "coincidentally" returned from a trip to El Paso one day before the assassination.  Ain't no way the murders (unsolved so far) were a coincidence.

I suspect a drug ripoff or otherwise a drug deal gone bad, and those guys came up here to exact their revenge.

You know when liberals talk about what happens when you got a terrible disparity between rich and poor.  Well, this is the kind of thing we were talking about.  It wasn't just whose kid gets to go to what college!


But hey, go John Galt...you da best, you knows how to run de WHOLE world and you don't need no help offa no socialist moochers stealing from you with their tears or some sh*t!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

Anyway, it ain't so bad.  You see we used to go to San Salvador for our Spring Break.  If the rebels picked up Bobby and cut his head off and burned his naughty bits off with a blowtorch, more beer and hookers for the rest of us!  Party on Wayne!  Party on Garth!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/headbang.gif

Of course, we can always execute them.  That is the penalty in 16 countries, and they all have very low drug rates.  Maybe there is something in common between harsh penalties and crime.
er.. no, they don't.  You will find some countries with high usage and harsh penalties (Thailand springs to mind - very high opiate use, very low cocaine use.. it's historical, and the death penalty hasn't changed usage patterns); I wouldn't mind betting there are plenty of places without draconian drug laws that have far lower usage rates than the US or the UK.

And you're happy with the thought that some poor (literally, as well as metaphorically) drug mule is killed, when they quite possibly didn't even know they were carrying the drugs?  You're happy with the idea that your country would become the biggest mass-executioner since the... hold on, getting somewhat close to Godwin's law, here.


And in 2 weeks, I am going to be in one of those countries for the next year.  For all the problems in the Middle East, at least they have the right idea in dealing with drug traffickers.  Beheading, firing squad, and public stoning tends to be a damned good deterent IMHO.
er... you got any proof of that assertion?

...didn't think so.

If you're going somewhere where there isn't any money to pay a high price for drugs, there's less of a trafficking problem - at the risk of repeating myself (well, not much notice was taken of this before), while you have millions of people willing to pay billions to fund their drug habits, you could kill a million dealers, and there'd be a million-and-oneth to take their place.

But if you really like things that mediaeval, maybe you'd be better off staying there.

You know when liberals talk about what happens when you got a terrible disparity between rich and poor.  Well, this is the kind of thing we were talking about.  It wasn't just whose kid gets to go to what college!


If anything, drugs are keeping huge segments of our population oppressed.  To me this is one of the biggest problems with drugs.  Some junkie strung out on crack or meth is not going to do the right thing, like get an education and improve their lives.  The only thing they are worried about is where their next fix is going to come from.

And drugs effect all levels of our society, rich and poor alike.  But it seems that they affect the poor the worst.


And you're happy with the thought that some poor (literally, as well as metaphorically) drug mule is killed, when they quite possibly didn't even know they were carrying the drugs?  You're happy with the idea that your country would become the biggest mass-executioner since the... hold on, getting somewhat close to Godwin's law, here.
er... you got any proof of that assertion?


I am not interested in executing the mules or users.  It is the traffickers and producers I want to go after.  And trust me, having a son going through a 5 year struggle with drugs is not easy.  He has been convicted of several crimes, all done to fuel his habit.  And his drugs of choice were Meth and Pot.


But if you really like things that mediaeval, maybe you'd be better off staying there.


Sorry, I am only going to be there for a year.  But I am sure that a lot of people in this country would be happy if myself and the others I am going over there would never return.

But I do not see it as being medeval, I simply see it as "Crime & Punishment", or "Cause & Effect".  Execute a few drug lords and producers, and sure as hell some will take their place.  So you off them as well.  After a while, a lot of them will get the message and knock it off.  Either that, or we can simply keep going.

And in the mean time, we are doing Mexico a favor by reducing the flo of a product that is destroying their country.  Our runaway drug problem does not just effect us, it affects many other countries.

Oh, and Kuwait and Quatar are hardly poor countries.  No personal income tax, corporate taxes are only 10%, paid to go to school, and everybody gets an annual stipend that is large enough that they do not have to work.  Sounds like a Liberal Paradise to me.

Of course, drugs are a big no-no, and even alcohol is banned (no Scotch for me for the next year).

Oh, and Kuwait and Quatar are hardly poor countries.  No personal income tax, corporate taxes are only 10%, paid to go to school, and everybody gets an annual stipend that is large enough that they do not have to work.  Sounds like a Liberal Paradise to me.



Yes, sounds like a liberal paradise.  It would sound like that to a you, you are being shortsighted at best.  Try looking at it through the eyes of your mother, sister, daughter, aunts.  God forbid you should be a servant, actually in this country we would probably spell that s-l-a-v-e.

Yes, sounds like a liberal paradise.  It would sound like that to a you.  Try looking at it through the eyes of your mother, sister, daughter, aunts.  God forbid you should be a servant, actually in this country we would probably spell that s-l-a-v-e.
you just got karma from the stingiest karmahog on this board.

If anything, drugs are keeping huge segments of our population oppressed.  To me this is one of the biggest problems with drugs.  Some junkie strung out on crack or meth is not going to do the right thing, like get an education and improve their lives.  The only thing they are worried about is where their next fix is going to come from.

And drugs effect all levels of our society, rich and poor alike.  But it seems that they affect the poor the worst.

I am not interested in executing the mules or users.  It is the traffickers and producers I want to go after.  And trust me, having a son going through a 5 year struggle with drugs is not easy.  He has been convicted of several crimes, all done to fuel his habit.  And his drugs of choice were Meth and Pot.

Sorry, I am only going to be there for a year.  But I am sure that a lot of people in this country would be happy if myself and the others I am going over there would never return.

But I do not see it as being medeval, I simply see it as "Crime & Punishment", or "Cause & Effect".  Execute a few drug lords and producers, and sure as hell some will take their place.  So you off them as well.  After a while, a lot of them will get the message and knock it off.  Either that, or we can simply keep going.

And in the mean time, we are doing Mexico a favor by reducing the flo of a product that is destroying their country.  Our runaway drug problem does not just effect us, it affects many other countries.

Oh, and Kuwait and Quatar are hardly poor countries.  No personal income tax, corporate taxes are only 10%, paid to go to school, and everybody gets an annual stipend that is large enough that they do not have to work.  Sounds like a Liberal Paradise to me.

Of course, drugs are a big no-no, and even alcohol is banned (no Scotch for me for the next year).


First of all the biggest abuse of drugs is perscription.  How many Americas go Doctor shopping for pain killers?  How quaint, you seem to think the poor are most affected by drug abuse.  Hardly, the rich have better means of hiding it.  You also fail to mention supply and demand.  If Americans didn't want their high then the drug-lords wouldn't exist.  Kuwait and Quatar are rougher on foreigners than you think.  You have to be told to work in those countries in order to get the benefits of their citezens.  Same thing with Saudi Arabia.  Yeah, you can go there to work but someone is libel to bump you of.  Unless you're fortunate enough to live in the Dharharn compound which is for Americans.  Liberal Paradise, my ass. ::)

There is a simple solution to this which would have the added benefit of stimulating our economy through war spending -- Reversing the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

We could start annexing border areas with our military and take a "slash and burn" technique toward the drug cartels.

Sure, plenty of death and destruction would result, but Mexico would learn very quickly not to mess with us (because we'd probably scare the hell out of them).

Phoenix would cease being terrorized by kidnappers (and being the #2 kidnapping city in the world) through aggressive use of our FBI resources (and interrogating any MS-13 members we find).

We could establish martial law in Tijuana, Juarez, and Monterrey.

It may not be the most humanitarian approach, but it would definitely work.  If we withdrew completely from Iraq, Turkey and maybe even Korea, we'd have enough manpower to do it too.

Sometimes, being ruthless is the most practical thing to do, because when dealing with drug smugglers and a government that makes our own look squeaky clean by comparison, sometimes...  ruthlessness is your only choice.

First of all the biggest abuse of drugs is perscription.  How many Americas go Doctor shopping for pain killers?  How quaint, you seem to think the poor are most affected by drug abuse.  Hardly, the rich have better means of hiding it.


I have heard that before, but I question it.  For every 1 person I know that has been addicted or abused prescription drugs that were issued to them, I have seen dozens of junkies on the street.  I know that none of my family has had a problem with their prescriptions, but 1 son, 2 nephews, 1 neice, and at least 6 cousins have been addicted to illegal drugs (2 of them used prescription drugs, but they were not their own drugs they took).

And yes, the rich have a better way of hiding it.  That does not make them any less abused however.


Kuwait and Quatar are rougher on foreigners than you think.  You have to be told to work in those countries in order to get the benefits of their citezens.  Same thing with Saudi Arabia.  Yeah, you can go there to work but someone is libel to bump you of.  Unless you're fortunate enough to live in the Dharharn compound which is for Americans.  Liberal Paradise, my ass. ::)


Actually, I will be in another kind of compound.  It is called Al Udeid Air Base, serving as part of OIF/OEF. 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/udeid.htm

Needless to say, I am not to worried about somebody taking away my job.  And I am not real worried about becomming a citizen of Qutar either.  8)

I have heard that before, but I question it.  For every 1 person I know that has been addicted or abused prescription drugs that were issued to them, I have seen dozens of junkies on the street.  I know that none of my family has had a problem with their prescriptions, but 1 son, 2 nephews, 1 neice, and at least 6 cousins have been addicted to illegal drugs (2 of them used prescription drugs, but they were not their own drugs they took).

And yes, the rich have a better way of hiding it.  That does not make them any less abused however.

Actually, I will be in another kind of compound.  It is called Al Udeid Air Base, serving as part of OIF/OEF. 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/udeid.htm

Needless to say, I am not to worried about somebody taking away my job.  And I am not real worried about becomming a citizen of Qutar either.   8)


Yes, the drugs are usually perscribed to them.  I have a friend who's a Doctor and he's gets calls constantly for people wanting pain meds.  If you can fake pain you can get it.  How do these junkies on the street get money for these drugs?  They most certainly can't use Welfare.  You need an address to receive benefits.  For most alcohol is a lot cheaper than hard drugs.  I've known cases where people have been reduce to drinking Listerine for a fix.

Best situation for someone with a Military back ground overseas is to get involved in security matters in the private sector or work at an airport.  My cousin is head of logistics for Bell Helicopter of Saudi Arabia.  Of course he's concern about his safety, but he's also pulling in over 6 figures tax free.

For most alcohol is a lot cheaper than hard drugs.  I've known cases where people have been reduce to drinking Listerine for a fix.



Ooooh!  That's gotta be a hell of a bellyache!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad2.gif


If anything, drugs are keeping huge segments of our population oppressed.  To me this is one of the biggest problems with drugs.  Some junkie strung out on crack or meth is not going to do the right thing, like get an education and improve their lives.  The only thing they are worried about is where their next fix is going to come from.


Are you suggesting poor people are poor because they use drugs? 

Ooooh!  That's gotta be a hell of a bellyache!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad2.gif
they did something on The Young Turks the other day about people who try and get a buzz off of drinking a certain kind of liquid soap.

they did something on The Young Turks the other day about people who try and get a buzz off of drinking a certain kind of liquid soap.


I remember kids who got in trouble with pot and got sent for mandatory drug testing.  So they'd sniff white-out, smoke gel toothpaste,* huff gasoline fumes...anything to kill brain cells.  Might as well just give the kid his dime bag back!
:o

Achieved by dipping a cigarette in the gel and smoking the cigarette!
:P

Are you suggesting poor people are poor because they use drugs? 


Hey, I think we should legalize pot and fight the War on Drugs very differently from the way we currently are, but yeah, even I'll admit that drug abuse can often lead to poverty.

Yes, the drugs are usually perscribed to them.  I have a friend who's a Doctor and he's gets calls constantly for people wanting pain meds.  If you can fake pain you can get it.  How do these junkies on the street get money for these drugs?  They most certainly can't use Welfare.  You need an address to receive benefits.  For most alcohol is a lot cheaper than hard drugs.  I've known cases where people have been reduce to drinking Listerine for a fix.

Best situation for someone with a Military back ground overseas is to get involved in security matters in the private sector or work at an airport.  My cousin is head of logistics for Bell Helicopter of Saudi Arabia.  Of course he's concern about his safety, but he's also pulling in over 6 figures tax free.


I do not deny that happens.  But can you give me numbers that back up your claim that more people abuse drugs prescribed to them then people that illegally obtain drugs?  In fact, here is a study that says the exact opposite of what you say:

In 2001, an estimated 15.9 million Americans aged 12 or older were current illicit drug users, meaning they had used an illicit drug during the month prior to the survey interview. This estimate represents 7.1 percent of the population aged 12 years old or older.

Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug. In 2001, it was used by 76 percent of current illicit drug users. Approximately 56 percent of current illicit drug users consumed only marijuana, 20 percent used marijuana and another illicit drug, and the remaining 24 percent used an illicit drug but not marijuana in the past month. Therefore, about 44 percent of current illicit drug users in 2001 (7.0 million Americans) used illicit drugs other than marijuana and hashish, with or without using marijuana as well.

Of the 7.0 million current users of illicit drugs other than marijuana, 4.8 million were current users of psychotherapeutic drugs. This represents 2.1 percent of the population aged 12 or older, which was higher than the rate observed in 2000 (1.7 percent). Of those who reported current use of any psychotherapeutics, 3.5 million used pain relievers, 1.4 million used tranquilizers, 1.0 million used stimulants, and 0.3 million used sedatives.

http://www.policyalmanac.org/crime/archive/drug_abuse.shtml

It is very obvious that you are incorrect.  With an estimated number of drug abusers of 15.9 million, only 4.8 million use pharmacutical drugs.  2.1%.  hardly a majority.

And you do not need an address to recieve benefits.  I recieved them myself when I was homeless.  I simply used the address of the Welfare office as my address.

And I am not going overseas as a contractor.  I am in the Army.  If I was going as a contractor, I would be making 10 times what I am now.


Are you suggesting poor people are poor because they use drugs? 


Like Macphisto, drugs certainly do not help.

There will always be poor.  A much wiser man then me once said "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me.  For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."

And that was said around 2,000 years ago.  Even in the workers paradises of the USSR, North Korea, and Cuba there are poor.  Some have no desire to work.  Some are unlucky, unskilled, or unable to work.  I have been poor myself.  Living on the street in LA is not exactly easy.

But adding substance abuse to the mix is a huge liability.  And while I have heard many cases of people becomming addicted and loosing everything, I can't think of a single case of a junkie becomming rich legally while still addicted.


There is a simple solution to this which would have the added benefit of stimulating our economy through war spending -- Reversing the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

We could start annexing border areas with our military and take a "slash and burn" technique toward the drug cartels.

Sure, plenty of death and destruction would result, but Mexico would learn very quickly not to mess with us (because we'd probably scare the hell out of them).


One big problem I have with this is simply that it is not Mexico that is causing the problems.  It is illegal gangs in Mexico.

However, I would wish that Mexico would ask for foreign assistance in getting their country under control.  When Columbia was totally out of control, it was the US Military that helped track down and destroy the cocaine production, processing, and distribution centers.

Send in a few Infantry and Armour regiments.  Have the Infantry go after the production and distribution centers, under order of the Mexican Government.  Have the Armored Regiments patrol the highways and cities.  The Mexican Police may be outgunned, but I doubt there is much the cartels have that can stand up to an M-1 tank or a Bradley APC.

Once the drugs are gone, the money that corrupts segments of the Government will dissipate.  Make examples of those corrupt officials that have been exasperating the problem.  Then maybe their country will be safe for it's citizens.

However, we can do things to help stop it now.  Put the National Guard back on the border.  Put up more checkpoints and actively patrol the border with armed military units.  Treat the scum caught in this country as the terrorists they are.

Your interpretation of those figures is wrong.  2.1% of the total population of US people aged twelve or older abuse psychotherapeutic drugs.  Of the 15.9 million drug abusers approx. 30% abuse those drugs.  So whilst admittedly not a majority it is a higher percentage than you claim.

Anybody who suggests the USSR and North Korea were ever "workers paradises" is smoking something!

Communist totalitarianism belongs on the scrap heap of history of failed political systems--along with Reaganomics.

I agree, drugs are usually to the economic detriment of the user.  However, it's not always so, especially when used responsibly by adults. 

Drug abuse is a symptom and not a cause of the systemic poverty we are seeing on the rise throughout the United States. 

But I happen to agree with that.  The problems with the powerfull drug lords is caused by the insatiable appetite of people in the US for Marijuanna.

Those that support legalization do not seem to realize that it also causes crime in other countries.  And legalizing it will do nothing to stop that.  Tobacco and Alcohol are legal in the US, but that still has not stopped the thriving business in selling bootleg cigarettes and alcohol in order to avoid the taxes.


And yet, not since the 20s have we had people being gunned down while smuggling in cigarettes and whiskey across a border.  I've yet to hear of alkies sticking people up for $2.00 to buy a bottle of malt liquor, nor of bums sticking people up for a pack of cigarettes.  Even the most down-and-out alcoholic or nicotine freak can get his fix by sitting peacefully on a street corner and saying "Spare change, man?" with a sign that reads "Yeah, it's for smokes and beer, I ain't BSing you."

Drug dealers won't bother to haul stuff across international borders unless there's a profit in it.  Legalize pot at the federal level, and Californians, Oregonians, and Washtingtonians will produce better quality pot in quantities that will drive the Mexican ditchweed out of the market.  Legalize it.  Tax it as we already tax alcohol and tobacco.  Drive the black market out of business.

You're right on one point, though, legalizing pot won't solve everything.  There are drugs out there that won't be legalized, and (unlike pot), actually are as addictive as alcohol.

The problems at the US/Mexico border will continue because the Mexican economy is collapsing, and the recent federal laws that require innocent citizens to present their drivers' licenses to get a fracking pack of cold medicine have driven incompetent home cooks out of the market.  Good news is, fewer apartment buildings are going up in smoke and driving innocents out onto the street when the meth labs explode.  Bad news, the government has made it more profitable for the Mexican traffickers to import methamphetamines and their precursors across the border in 55-gallon drums. 

Unlike pot, meth's deadly.  I'd be willing to support its legalization only because it's a self-correcting problem and I'm a sufficiently heartless bastard that I'm OK with the fact that within a year of its legalization, every meth user would be dead of natural causes.

That said, I'm OK with your points on militarizing the border.  As per my being a heartless bastard, I believe my solution on the "funny solutions to world problems" thread a few years back was along the lines of attaching live video monitors to everyone - civilian, military, or robotic - who applies for the job.  Void the life insurance policies of any cilivians who sign up.  Make the whole region a free-fire zone.  Pay a bounty for shooting anyone entering America illegally.  Summary execution for civilians (or whose remote-controlled robots are involved) who cause friendly-fire incidents, or for shooting anyone trying to leave America.  Fund the programme by selling ads and streaming the whole thing in live streaming video on the Intarweb.

/alcohol and caffeine user.
//used nicotine once, in cigar form, with vintage port.  not bad.
///legalize the other stuff and let Darwin take the hindmost.

Whether they're in Mexico or L.A. or Chicago or West Virginia, you can get mad at the drug dealers and the drug abusers, but it won't do you any good.  It's just supply and demand my friend.  Prohibition doesn't work.

Well, what do we do?  Watch our sons and daughter died of meth overdoses?

Possibly.  I wish I had a more comforting answer for you.

I can tell you the prohibition keeps prices inflated and violence mandated. 

I have known heroin junkies.  Pitiful specimens they were.  You couldn't love them.  You couldn't trust them.  All you could do was hope they saw the other side alive.  A few didn't.
:\'(

The ones I knew who survived all reported they quit the drug because they wanted to quit at long last.  It had nothing to do with some judge sending them for another 90-day stint in the county slammer.  It had nothing to do with a drought in the H supply.  It certainly had nothing to do with some wonderful treatment program.  They just were flat out sick of doing the sh*t and wanted to move on with their lives. 

Prevention programs for school kids?  Might as well go all the way.  Show them what a guy looks like when he's trying to kick heroin in a jail cell.  Yeah, take the kids to the actual jail and let 'em watch.  Bring in a prostitute whose been hooked on meth for five years and let her talk about what it's like to be on meth and what she has to do to get it.  These drugs cause real problems.  Show the kids the real results!
:o

Your interpretation of those figures is wrong.  2.1% of the total population of US people aged twelve or older abuse psychotherapeutic drugs.  Of the 15.9 million drug abusers approx. 30% abuse those drugs.  So whilst admittedly not a majority it is a higher percentage than you claim.


And if you take marijuana out of the equation entirely, leaving only meds and hard drugs, that leaves 7 million users, 4.8 million of which are using psychotherapeutic drugs. That's roughly 68% of the illicit drug use attributed to psychotherapeutic drugs.

Your interpretation of those figures is wrong.  2.1% of the total population of US people aged twelve or older abuse psychotherapeutic drugs.  Of the 15.9 million drug abusers approx. 30% abuse those drugs.  So whilst admittedly not a majority it is a higher percentage than you claim.


True, I forgot to bookmark another site which talked about the percentage of such drugs that are acquired legally (their own prescription) Vs. those that buy them illegally (on the street).

Only about 15-20% were actually obtained legally (though things like "doctor shopping).  It was 80-something percent that were obtained illegally (on the street, bought-obtained from a friend, etc).

I remember that even back in the 1980's, kids were selling their ritlin in school to other students.  And my wife is a Nurse.  She has seen a lot of the "drug shoppers" you were talking about.  And the vast majority she had dealings with were not getting it for their own use, they were getting it to sell.  Things like Vicoden and Darvocet sell for a pretty penny on the street.  And this is one of the things my son was arrested for.  Selling Tylenol-3 for money so he could buy pot.


And yet, not since the 20s have we had people being gunned down while smuggling in cigarettes and whiskey across a border.  I've yet to hear of alkies sticking people up for $2.00 to buy a bottle of malt liquor, nor of bums sticking people up for a pack of cigarettes.  Even the most down-and-out alcoholic or nicotine freak can get his fix by sitting peacefully on a street corner and saying "Spare change, man?" with a sign that reads "Yeah, it's for smokes and beer, I ain't BSing you."

Drug dealers won't bother to haul stuff across international borders unless there's a profit in it.  Legalize pot at the federal level, and Californians, Oregonians, and Washtingtonians will produce better quality pot in quantities that will drive the Mexican ditchweed out of the market.  Legalize it.  Tax it as we already tax alcohol and tobacco.  Drive the black market out of business.
. 

Wanna bet?  I remember a major gang-war in LA in the early-mid 2000's over cigarettes.  The Russia Mafia now has an almost total control of that market.  I even used to buy them myself.  I forget the name, but they were these nasty things from Armenia.  And at least 6 years ago they were killing people over the distribution and sales.  And if you think it is chump change, think about the fact that tax alone on smokes in LA is around $2.50-3.00 a pack.  That is $25-30 a carton.  There were even some that stated it was more profitable to smuggle in smokes then drugs.

And I have seen people mug others for money to buy alcohol.  And cigarettes.  And also drugs.  Remember, I have lived on the street in LA.  I have seen people even commit crimes to get money for everything from batteries to prostitutes.

Whether they're in Mexico or L.A. or Chicago or West Virginia, you can get mad at the drug dealers and the drug abusers, but it won't do you any good.  It's just supply and demand my friend.  Prohibition doesn't work.

I support legalizing pot, but legalizing everything else takes time.

Well, what do we do?  Watch our sons and daughter died of meth overdoses?

Possibly.  I wish I had a more comforting answer for you.

I can tell you the prohibition keeps prices inflated and violence mandated. 

I have known heroin junkies.  Pitiful specimens they were.  You couldn't love them.  You couldn't trust them.  All you could do was hope they saw the other side alive.  A few didn't.
:\'(

The ones I knew who survived all reported they quit the drug because they wanted to quit at long last.  It had nothing to do with some judge sending them for another 90-day stint in the county slammer.  It had nothing to do with a drought in the H supply.  It certainly had nothing to do with some wonderful treatment program.  They just were flat out sick of doing the sh*t and wanted to move on with their lives. 

Prevention programs for school kids?  Might as well go all the way.  Show them what a guy looks like when he's trying to kick heroin in a jail cell.  Yeah, take the kids to the actual jail and let 'em watch.  Bring in a prostitute whose been hooked on meth for five years and let her talk about what it's like to be on meth and what she has to do to get it.  These drugs cause real problems.  Show the kids the real results!
:o


Good points...  scared straight.

Whether they're in Mexico or L.A. or Chicago or West Virginia, you can get mad at the drug dealers and the drug abusers, but it won't do you any good.  It's just supply and demand my friend.  Prohibition doesn't work.

Well, what do we do?  Watch our sons and daughter died of meth overdoses?

Possibly.  I wish I had a more comforting answer for you.

I can tell you the prohibition keeps prices inflated and violence mandated. 

I have known heroin junkies.  Pitiful specimens they were.  You couldn't love them.  You couldn't trust them.  All you could do was hope they saw the other side alive.  A few didn't.
:\'(

The ones I knew who survived all reported they quit the drug because they wanted to quit at long last.  It had nothing to do with some judge sending them for another 90-day stint in the county slammer.  It had nothing to do with a drought in the H supply.  It certainly had nothing to do with some wonderful treatment program.  They just were flat out sick of doing the sh*t and wanted to move on with their lives. 

Prevention programs for school kids?  Might as well go all the way.  Show them what a guy looks like when he's trying to kick heroin in a jail cell.  Yeah, take the kids to the actual jail and let 'em watch.  Bring in a prostitute whose been hooked on meth for five years and let her talk about what it's like to be on meth and what she has to do to get it.  These drugs cause real problems.  Show the kids the real results!
:o


Karma +1.

I live in El Paso, just across the Rio Grande from Juarez.  In that city alone, there were 1,600 deaths last year due to the drug war.  Compare that to the 314 servicemen killed in Iraq for the same time period.  It is safer to walk down the street in Bagdad then to walk down the street in Juarez.  And nation wide in Mexico, the death toll in 2008 was over 6,000 people.

Just 2 weeks ago, a friend of mine lost his Cousin, who was visiting Juarez.  He worked in the US as a mechanic, and was visiting family when he was gunned down returning to his car.

It sadly brings to mind the cliche about a tragedy and a statistic.  With so many dead, it is becomming a nation of tragedies.  And my friend (who was born in Juarez) has long talked about having the Army take some M-1 tanks and just driving them a few miles south and eliminating this cancer.



I just read a story (the most recent among several) of the latest murders taking place in Ciudad Juarez.  It makes me very glad we visited that city when we did (approximately 14 yrs ago).  We took the trolley from El Paso to CJ....we had a great day!  Complete contrast to what it happening now......  :\'(

Drug dealers won't bother to haul stuff across international borders unless there's a profit in it.  Legalize pot at the federal level, and Californians, Oregonians, and Washtingtonians will produce better quality pot in quantities that will drive the Mexican ditchweed out of the market.  Legalize it.  Tax it as we already tax alcohol and tobacco.  Drive the black market out of business.


Taxing has not shut down the moonshiners at all.  In fact, I found this interesting article this morning:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008869772_moonshinerdeath.html

This was not exactly a small operation either.  1,700 gallons on the property, and the capacity to make 1,000 gallons at a time.  That comes out to 2,000 gallons a month.  24,000 gallons a year.  And this was his 5th felony conviction for moonshining (technically manufacturing "untaxed liquor").

And he was actually getting off lucky.  Sentenced to 18 months, he could have been sentenced to the max, 30 years.  Even is a substance is legal (alcohol) and not illegal (drugs), people will still make it and sell it in a way to avoid paying taxes.

And that is just one moonshiner.  There are still thousands of them in the South. 

Taxing has not shut down the moonshiners at all.

True, but there is a difference in scale between the trouble caused by illegal alcohol production now and the organized crime rackets during prohibition.  What we're seeing in the drugs market is akin to the latter - I'm not saying that legalization would prevent all drug-related crime; however what evidence there is points to it reducing crime levels to a much more reasonable level.

True, but there is a difference in scale between the trouble caused by illegal alcohol production now and the organized crime rackets during prohibition.  What we're seeing in the drugs market is akin to the latter - I'm not saying that legalization would prevent all drug-related crime; however what evidence there is points to it reducing crime levels to a much more reasonable level.


I very much agree.  Of course lots more people would grow pot in their back yard if it were legal, more than do now.  But so what?  And the difference between growing pot and distilling booze is that bad booze can kill, bad port just gives you a headache.

In practice, it would be a lot safer for people to grow their own pot: you'd not find anything like the same intensive hothousing, leading to higher THC levels etc.

Of course, legalization seems to work whenever it comes up.  After all, if you make things legal, then it is no longer a crime.

And there is a big list of things we can make legal.  This will lower our crime rates even lower.

Public Intoxication
Prostitution
Speeding (15mph or less over the limit)
Meth
Simple Tresspassing
Obscene Phone Calls
Burning Crosses
Listening to Barry Mannilow albums

After all, nont of these are really crimes, because nobody is directly hurt or damaged by them.

Well, other then the last one.  I think that should remain in effect no matter what.

Of course, legalization seems to work whenever it comes up.  After all, if you make things legal, then it is no longer a crime.

And there is a big list of things we can make legal.  This will lower our crime rates even lower.

Public Intoxication
Prostitution
Speeding (15mph or less over the limit)
Meth
Simple Tresspassing
Obscene Phone Calls
Burning Crosses
Listening to Barry Mannilow albums

After all, nont of these are really crimes, because nobody is directly hurt or damaged by them.

Well, other then the last one.  I think that should remain in effect no matter what.



NO! NO!!! Please don't make listening to Barry Mannilow albums legal. The horrors, the horrors.  (Ok, I confess, I listened to 1 or 2 in my day-but I was young and stupid.  :-[ :-[ :-[ )



Cat

In practice, it would be a lot safer for people to grow their own pot: you'd not find anything like the same intensive hothousing, leading to higher THC levels etc.




Huh huh huh!  He said "higher"!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_colors.gif

Of course, legalization seems to work whenever it comes up.  After all, if you make things legal, then it is no longer a crime.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or is this some kind of attempt at ironic humour?

Legalization does reduce crime, in the sense of people doing the same things are no longer committing an offence (which of itself is not necessarily a bad thing), but if you'd bothered to read what I wrote, it would have been blindingly obvious that isn't what I was talking about.  Which part of "organized crime rackets" didn't you understand?

Prostitution

It works just fine for Nevada.

Speeding (15mph or less over the limit)

Until very recently, Montana had no speed limits.  More accidents occurred after the imposition of speed limits than before they were in effect.

I understand where you're coming from, but not all bans are equal.  Some bans are more trouble than they are worth.

Doesn't Nevada allow state sanctioned prostitution in just one county and only at licensed brothels?

The trouble with prostitution is it is most often a crime of coercion and desperation.  There are women and children forced into the trade by human traffickers worldwide, including here in the U.S., including Nevada.  There are also street kids and people in economic duress who practice a kind of prostitution known as "survival sex."  And then there are the drug addicts....

The Moonlight Bunny Ranch is not the true face of prostitution and prostitution is anything but a 'victimless crime."

I suppose if a person who could reasonably be said to have other options wants to turn tricks of his or her own free will, it's better for the government to legalize it and keep it safe and clean.  It's not possible to keep it totally safe and totally clean, but providing prostitutes with free STD screenings and away from extortionist pimps is worth the effort.

If you've got minors, drug addicts, and mentally ill people on the stroll, intervention is necessary, but not criminal arrest.  That's not going to help anything.

In ultra-liberal Amsterdam, prostitution is legal.  Heck, the city's famous for it.  Yet, I've heard the same kinds of horror stories about dope, rape, pimps, and murder in Amsterdam as anywhere else.

I know what you're saying.  Nevada does highly regulate prostitution.  Still, that's the way to do it.

And besides, as far as the sex crimes go, they're going to happen either way.  There will always be poor, desperate people.  We might as well make some tax money from it.

I know what you're saying.  Nevada does highly regulate prostitution.  Still, that's the way to do it.

And besides, as far as the sex crimes go, they're going to happen either way.  There will always be poor, desperate people.  We might as well make some tax money from it.


Make money out of sex crimes? I think you must want to rephrase that :o

Make money out of sex crimes? I think you must want to rephrase that :o


I was gonna say...I mean, like, gee-whiz!
:o