NEW YORK (Reuters) - The founder of a U.S. Muslim television network has been arrested and charged with murdering his wife by beheading her, the network's Web site and local media reported.

Muzzammil Hassan, founder and CEO of Buffalo, N.Y.-based Bridges TV which launched in 2004 with a mission to show Muslims in a more positive light, was charged after reporting the death of his wife, Aasiya Hassan, 37, on Thursday night.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE51F4ZX20090216

Well this incident will certainly help his cause.

Nothing like threats of divorce to make a person turn to the old ways.  Which positive light are we to see this incident in?  The fact that he reported what he did or the fact that he didn't put it on the internet like terrorist do?

You like head do you, Mr. Hassan, well, you'll give plenty where you're going!

>:(

I have been reading about this, and it is really sad.

However, I have been watching clips from "Bridges TV" today, and it makes me start to ask this question:  Is there such a thing as a "Moderate Muslim".

Watching the shows on the network, all I see are attacks over and over again against the US and it's allies.  And the way it is slanted is not what it claims it is.  For example, this is how they opened the article about the recent conflict in Israel-Paliestine:

Israel has carried out an air attack in the Gaza Strip and launched an incursion with tanks and bulldozers across the border.

However, much further down they did admit:

The incursion follows a bomb attack which killed one Israeli soldier and wounded three near the Gaza border.

And looking down the list, I see simply more and more of the same.  How the US is wrong to convict the "Cuba Five", a bunch of terrorists convicted of murder.  Or praising Iran on their sattelite (missile) program.  Or how wonderful it is that Kyrgyzstan is closing the US base there.

Hopefully this network will close fast.  Because other Americans will surely be looking at it, and the last thing we need is a network like this adding fuel to the fire of hatred.

Of course, one of their "headline news shows" is the ill-titled "Democracy Now!".  That show might as well be named
"Al Jazeera US".

I have been reading about this, and it is really sad.

However, I have been watching clips from "Bridges TV" today, and it makes me start to ask this question:  Is there such a thing as a "Moderate Muslim".

Watching the shows on the network, all I see are attacks over and over again against the US and it's allies.  And the way it is slanted is not what it claims it is.  For example, this is how they opened the article about the recent conflict in Israel-Paliestine:

Israel has carried out an air attack in the Gaza Strip and launched an incursion with tanks and bulldozers across the border.

However, much further down they did admit:

The incursion follows a bomb attack which killed one Israeli soldier and wounded three near the Gaza border.

And looking down the list, I see simply more and more of the same.  How the US is wrong to convict the "Cuba Five", a bunch of terrorists convicted of murder.  Or praising Iran on their sattelite (missile) program.  Or how wonderful it is that Kyrgyzstan is closing the US base there.

Hopefully this network will close fast.  Because other Americans will surely be looking at it, and the last thing we need is a network like this adding fuel to the fire of hatred.

Of course, one of their "headline news shows" is the ill-titled "Democracy Now!".  That show might as well be named
"Al Jazeera US".


What do we do if ALL Muslims are extremists?
???

What do we do if ALL Muslims are extremists?
???


I will die in the name of God rather than Allah!

So I'm saying...lets those Islamic bastards kill me, Earth has NEVER thrown me a crumb and I'd rather have the Crown O'Life!

However, I have been watching clips from "Bridges TV" today, and it makes me start to ask this question:  Is there such a thing as a "Moderate Muslim".


And here we go.  ::)

What do we do if ALL Muslims are extremists?
???
fire up the extermination ovens in the name of moderation, i guess.

So when a white Christian kills his wife...what does that say about all white Christians? 

So when a white Christian kills his wife...what does that say about all white Christians? 


That they're crazy.

So when a white Christian kills his wife...what does that say about all white Christians? 


That something terrible happened in his childhood and his parents and liberals should be blamed.  That's the excuse the guy that shot up that Unitarian Church used. ::)

now of course, it would be easy to list the enormous number of massacres, rapes, murders, and other human rights abuses by soldiers and blackwater mercs in iraq and wonder aloud whether there are any "moderate" soldiers or soldiers with respect for human life, but i'm guessing certain posters will argue that the rules are different for US soldiers than they are for everyone else.

That they're crazy.


I agree...but this fruitcake in Buffalo makes the double standard easy to apply:

1. Stereotype of Muslims being ultra-possessive of women.
2. Stereotype of Muslims cutting people's heads off.

Then there's the sick irony of said fruitcake starting a TV network to dispel negative stereotypes of Muslims.
::)


fire up the extermination ovens in the name of moderation, i guess.


See, that's what I was thinking, but how can all Muslims be extreme?  Some must be extremely extreme and others must be extremely moderate 'cos you gotta be able to make a comparison!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/vogel.gif

I agree...but this fruitcake in Buffalo makes the double standard easy to apply:

1. Stereotype of Muslims being ultra-possessive of women.
2. Stereotype of Muslims cutting people's heads off.

Then there's the sick irony of said fruitcake starting a TV network to dispel negative stereotypes of Muslims.
::)

See, that's what I was thinking, but how can all Muslims be extreme?  Some must be extremely extreme and others must be extremely moderate 'cos you gotta be able to make a comparison!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/vogel.gif


I'm with you, Max.  This guy went out of his way to feed the stereotype.

It was clearly a serious misunderstanding between him and his wife.  She had asked him sarcastically if he could help her come up with any reasons off the top of her head to stay married to him.

It was clearly a serious misunderstanding between him and his wife.  She had asked him sarcastically if he could help her come up with any reasons off the top of her head to stay married to him.


(Reluctant) Karma +1.

;)

now of course, it would be easy to list the enormous number of massacres, rapes, murders, and other human rights abuses by soldiers and blackwater mercs in iraq and wonder aloud whether there are any "moderate" soldiers or soldiers with respect for human life, but i'm guessing certain posters will argue that the rules are different for US soldiers than they are for everyone else.


Actually the vast majority of Soldiers I work with take a "no bullsheesh" approach to the criminal activities of other Soldiers.

We actually talked about that a few weeks ago when we were in the field.  And the general consensus was that Soldiers that commit crimes like that should be left to the "tender mercies" of the local authorities.

The rules are no different.  In fact, in my opinion the rules are tougher for the Soldiers then for others (and should be).  Because remember, as much as you and the world condemned the "Military Tribunals", that is the form of justice we live with on a day-to-day basis.

BTW, I do not believe all Muslims are extremists.  But at times you do have to wonder, seeing things like this (from somebody that claims to be moderate).

BTW, I do not believe all Muslims are extremists.  But at times you do have to wonder, seeing things like this (from somebody that claims to be moderate).


This guy was obviously insane.  No rational person cuts his wife's head off.  It is NOT a commentary on all Muslims and the fact that you keep bringing it up makes me wonder about you.

I know several Moderate Muslims that are peaceful, loving, wonderful people and are just as appaled at his behavior as we are. 

Actually the vast majority of Soldiers I work with take a "no balony" approach to the criminal activities of other Soldiers.

We actually talked about that a few weeks ago when we were in the field.  And the general consensus was that Soldiers that commit crimes like that should be left to the "tender mercies" of the local authorities.

The rules are no different.  In fact, in my opinion the rules are tougher for the Soldiers then for others (and should be).  Because remember, as much as you and the world condemned the "Military Tribunals", that is the form of justice we live with on a day-to-day basis.

BTW, I do not believe all Muslims are extremists.  But at times you do have to wonder, seeing things like this (from somebody that claims to be moderate).
well, i can't speak for the soldiers you work with, but i've definitely heard lots of people say the culture in the military is a lot like the culture in a lot of police departments: that the main thing is to stick up for your co-workers and not get known as a "snitch." the dude who went public with the abu ghraib photos caught no end of grief from other soldiers.

This guy was obviously insane.  No rational person cuts his wife's head off.  It is NOT a commentary on all Muslims and the fact that you keep bringing it up makes me wonder about you.

I'm sorry, but here I disagree: while it is possible that the guy is insane, his behaviour is not *that* exceptional:

The BBC, talking about 'honour killings'"]In the UK, murders have sometimes taken place after a family has reacted violently to their son or daughter taking on the trappings of western culture. Killings are often disguised as suicide, fire or an accident.

Police believe there may be as many as 12 honour killings in the UK every year. They will typically occur within Asian and Middle Eastern families when a person is believed to have 'dishonoured' their loved ones.
Whether this is religious or cultural is debatable, yet whether that point actually makes any difference is also debatable.

Unless of course, he'd been watching a Western, and misunderstood the command to "head 'em off at the pass"

I know several Moderate Muslims that are peaceful, loving, wonderful people and are just as appaled at his behavior as we are. 

PS I know quite a few, too.. but I get the feeling that the ones I know are the most Westernized and moderate, almost by definition; there are a lot of Muslims locally who tend not to mix socially with anyone outside their clique.  Though having said that, the ones arrested for plotting to blow up aeroplanes were known by enough non-muslims locally for it to be a real surprise that they were that radical.

Well, to be fair, most of this honor killing crap stems from pre-Islamic traditions.

In short, the Middle East and South Asia have always been nutty with some of their customs.  It's not so much the fault of Islam as it is the fault of longstanding cultural practices.

Muslims who aren't from the Middle East or South Asia rarely ever behave like this.

It is worth noting, however, that many interpretations of Islam are very sexist.  Women tend to get treated like second-class citizens in many Islamic countries.  Thankfully, most Muslims that go to the trouble of traveling to the West are liberal in nature.  I'd prefer that all the orthodox ones stay where they came from.

Now, Sharia law is definitely an Islamic practice that needs to stay overseas.  No self-respecting First World country allows that sort of crap to be done on their own soil.  Granted, there are some Jewish law systems that need to be done away with too.

Religion and law should always be separate in secular/free countries (something the Religious Right needs to understand as well).

Well, to be fair, most of this honor killing crap stems from pre-Islamic traditions.

In short, the Middle East and South Asia have always been nutty with some of their customs.  It's not so much the fault of Islam as it is the fault of longstanding cultural practices.

Muslims who aren't from the Middle East or South Asia rarely ever behave like this.

It is worth noting, however, that many interpretations of Islam are very sexist.  Women tend to get treated like second-class citizens in many Islamic countries.  Thankfully, most Muslims that go to the trouble of traveling to the West are liberal in nature.  I'd prefer that all the orthodox ones stay where they came from.

Now, Sharia law is definitely an Islamic practice that needs to stay overseas.  No self-respecting First World country allows that sort of crap to be done on their own soil.  Granted, there are some Jewish law systems that need to be done away with too.

Religion and law should always be separate in secular/free countries (something the Religious Right needs to understand as well).



You and other libertarian sympathisers are always complaining about how the government should mess less with peoples lives and now you want to stop secular practices that happen inside close doors? What gives?

You and other libertarian sympathisers are always complaining about how the government should mess less with peoples lives and now you want to stop secular practices that happen inside close doors? What gives?


You mean, religious practices behind closed doors?

Yes, I know it seems hypocritical, but I'm not a pure Libertarian.

I believe very strongly in the separation of church and state.  In addition to this, I believe in the separation of law and church.

The reason I'm adamantly against Sharia law is because many Muslims come to the West to escape it.  On the surface, it may seem like Sharia law is a voluntary law system among Muslims in the West, but this isn't necessarily true.  There are several reports of abuses that occur within Islamic communities when particularly draconian interpretations of Sharia law result in things like the honor killings mentioned in this thread.

The point is....  in a country that values secular law, there can be no competing systems of law.  To allow this muddles the effectiveness of secular law, and it creates a lot of complications that really don't benefit anyone other than very orthodox people.

I would say the same thing about Christian laws if there was a Christian equivalent.

The point is...  I don't give the Muslims anymore slack than I do the Christians or Jews.  All religions should be subject to the separation of church and state, which is why I criticize supporters of Sharia law equally as much as I criticize the Religious Right.

Yes, I know it seems hypocritical, but I'm not a pure Libertarian.




I've never met one who is.

Well, to be fair, most of this honor killing crap stems from pre-Islamic traditions.

In short, the Middle East and South Asia have always been nutty with some of their customs.  It's not so much the fault of Islam as it is the fault of longstanding cultural practices.

Muslims who aren't from the Middle East or South Asia rarely ever behave like this.

But Islam as an ideology hasn't exactly stopped this sort of thing from happening, has it?

While I agree that it is probably cultural and pre-Islamic in origin, as a practice it has spread with Islam into areas where culturally it's unacceptable (like about half a mile from here).  It's a bit like trying to separate things like christmas trees from christianity...

No rational person cuts his wife's head off. 


The muslim world is full of people who would behead their wives, deny education to their girls, strap explosives to their children, fly airplanes into civilian office buildings intentionally, and cheer on those who do these things.

What proportion of the Muslim world does these things or cheers them on we do not know.  But in the end it does not matter if the person is or rational or not.  Dead is dead.

There are plenty of irrational people out there of all faiths, but as of the past decade the ones doing the most spectacular things do it in the name of Islam.

as of the past decade the ones doing the most spectacular things do it in the name of Islam.
http://islamnz.com/Images/HighwayDeath6.jpg

really?

The muslim world is full of people who would behead their wives, deny education to their girls, strap explosives to their children, fly airplanes into civilian office buildings intentionally, and cheer on those who do these things.

What proportion of the Muslim world does these things or cheers them on we do not know.  But in the end it does not matter if the person is or rational or not.  Dead is dead.

There are plenty of irrational people out there of all faiths, but as of the past decade the ones doing the most spectacular things do it in the name of Islam.


I'd say Islam takes a distant third to the almighty dollar and just plain crazy.

As Chris Rock said about the Columbine shootings:
They're trying to blame the music these kids listened to.  Forget about the music!  Whatever happened to CRRRAAAZYYY!!!

::)

I'd say Islam takes a distant third to the almighty dollar and just plain crazy.

As Chris Rock said about the Columbine shootings:
They're trying to blame the music these kids listened to.  Forget about the music!  Whatever happened to CRRRAAAZYYY!!!

::)


The Columbine guys (while admittedly extreme) did it because they were bullied and nobody cared.  Finally they said "I am mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more".  Blasted the hell out of those jocks.

Despite however warped those two kids were, deep down the guys who bullied them know that they are partly to blame for what happened.  They just never counted on those two guys getting payback on such a huge scale.

But Islam as an ideology hasn't exactly stopped this sort of thing from happening, has it?

While I agree that it is probably cultural and pre-Islamic in origin, as a practice it has spread with Islam into areas where culturally it's unacceptable (like about half a mile from here).  It's a bit like trying to separate things like christmas trees from christianity...


Oh I agree.  I'm not totally absolving Islam from this, but I suppose it is worth noting that the U.K. has a large Pakistani presence.  Again, this is a nation that shares much in common with the Middle East culturally, and it's not surprising that honor killings still occur both there and in the U.K. among Pakistani immigrants.  They also occur over here among them.

To be quite honest, I'm not a big fan of Pakistan in general.  It would seem to be the @$$ end of the Islamic World.

But yes, Islam isn't blameless here.

http://islamnz.com/Images/HighwayDeath6.jpg

really?


While it is true that America still can accumulate quite a body count with war, Islam is based on the teachings of a warlord, and much of the Quran supports conversion by the sword.

Violence and Islam aren't exactly strangers, and as far as cultural conflicts throughout the world go, Islam is present in more of them than any other religion.

While it is true that America still can accumulate quite a body count with war, Islam is based on the teachings of a warlord, and much of the Quran supports conversion by the sword.

Violence and Islam aren't exactly strangers, and as far as cultural conflicts throughout the world go, Islam is present in more of them than any other religion.

well, i think you're more likely to be violent if you pretend (key word) to follow a peaceful man like jesus. the violent wing of the christian movement constantly tries to fool itself that it's bringing peace and freedom to the world, which is why they feel entitled to kill far more people. you talk about "body counts" like they don't matter but that's the key issue. if you kill more people, you're more of a threat to peace. and where that's concerned, there can be no argument... christians kill FAR, FAR, FAR more people.

well, i think you're more likely to be violent if you pretend (key word) to follow a peaceful man like jesus. the violent wing of the christian movement constantly tries to fool itself that it's bringing peace and freedom to the world, which is why they feel entitled to kill far more people. you talk about "body counts" like they don't matter but that's the key issue. if you kill more people, you're more of a threat to peace. and where that's concerned, there can be no argument... christians kill FAR, FAR, FAR more people.


Well, the difference here is that we don't go to war over religion.  The Iraq War was for many things (namely greed), but religion really wasn't part of it.

Terrorists, on the other hand, specifically use religion as part of their motivation.

So again, I'd have to disagree with you here -- especially in the modern world.  Killing over religion is definitely more common with Islam currently.

Well, the difference here is that we don't go to war over religion.  The Iraq War was for many things (namely greed), but religion really wasn't part of it.

Terrorists, on the other hand, specifically use religion as part of their motivation.

So again, I'd have to disagree with you here -- especially in the modern world.  Killing over religion is definitely more common with Islam currently.
im more or less indifferent to the reasons those in power claim for going to war. since we don't really know why bush went to war -- the only thing we know for certain is WMDs were basically irrelevant -- we're left to speculate. since bush and so much of his administration are far right born-again christians -- bob jones university cultists, in essence -- going to war with extremist muslims, it's pretty obvious that religion has a LOT to do with the war. plus the war was plainly founded on anti-muslim sentiments and anti-muslim/anti-arab racism. one of the key reasons the bush administration was able to pull off their iraq war fraud was that nearly half of americans persisted in claiming that saddam hussein was behind 9/11.

well, here's what i think. a lot of those people didn't really think that. they just didn't CARE. iraq looked muslim to them, and the 911 hijackers looked muslim, so they thought, ok, even if hussein wasn't explicitly involved in 911 it's close enough because the iraqis are muslims. the only other alternative is to suppose that 40 percent to half of americans really WERE stupid as to think hussein did 911, and i don't really believe that.

im more or less indifferent to the reasons those in power claim for going to war. since we don't really know why bush went to war -- the only thing we know for certain is WMDs were basically irrelevant -- we're left to speculate. since bush and so much of his administration are far right born-again christians -- bob jones university cultists, in essence -- going to war with extremist muslims, it's pretty obvious that religion has a LOT to do with the war. plus the war was plainly founded on anti-muslim sentiments and anti-muslim/anti-arab racism. one of the key reasons the bush administration was able to pull off their iraq war fraud was that nearly half of americans persisted in claiming that saddam hussein was behind 9/11.

well, here's what i think. a lot of those people didn't really think that. they just didn't CARE. iraq looked muslim to them, and the 911 hijackers looked muslim, so they thought, ok, even if hussein wasn't explicitly involved in 911 it's close enough because the iraqis are muslims. the only other alternative is to suppose that 40 percent to half of americans really WERE stupid as to think hussein did 911, and i don't really believe that.

Well, when questioning if the general public is stupid....  I pretty much always have to go with the affirmative.  ;)

I know what you're saying.  The religious wing of the GOP reminds me a lot of fanatical Muslims.  I'm not a big fan of religion in general, and while I may agree with some of the GOP's positions, I don't think I could stomach having to associate with most of the Religious Right.  I do have some Christian fundamentalist friends, but some of them are rare in that they aren't hypocrites.  Obviously, many of the other ones are.

Nevertheless, while I am aware that Christian Zionists have a lot of power in our system (via things like AIPAC), I believe all of the signs generally pointed more towards an economic/strategic basis for invading Iraq.  As you said, the cover story doesn't mean much, and while many Americans probably did think of it in religious terms (whether consciously or subconsciously), the people in power are more interested in earthly things.

The same cannot be said for terrorists.  The same can also not be said about many of the world's ethnic conflicts.  Right now, Islam is going through the same violent phase that Christianity went through a few centuries back.  You can think of it as Islam's adolescence so to speak.

World War III is on our doorstep if Netenyahu gets back in office!
:o

World War III is on our doorstep if Netenyahu gets back in office!
:o


Netenyahu always reminds me of the old "Nut 'n' Honey" commercials.

"What was that nuclear blast out on the Sinai?  Nut'n, honey."    ;D

Netenyahu always reminds me of the old "Nut 'n' Honey" commercials.

"What was that nuclear blast out on the Sinai?  Nut'n, honey."    ;D


Actually, I noticed I misspelled his name, it's "Netanyahu" with one "e."

It always reminded me of a cheap ISP.  Do you have a Netanyahu account?
:P

Anyway, he takes office next month, so let 'er rip!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/xyxgun.gif

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The founder of a U.S. Muslim television network has been arrested and charged with murdering his wife by beheading her, the network's Web site and local media reported.

Muzzammil Hassan ...


Hassan?  Yeah, he's got quite a track record.

http://www.hassanchop.com/HassanChop.jpg

/late to the thread
//but someone had to go there