Today marks the 200th Birthday of Abraham Lincoln.

If he was president today...or is alive today...what would he say?

Fourscore and... seven minutes ago... we, your forefathers, were brought forth upon a most excellent adventure conceived by our new friends, Bill... and Ted. These two great gentlemen are dedicated to a proposition which was true in my time, just as it's true today. Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!

Personally I'll be celebrating Darwin's birthday instead....that is also today.

Good on you Abe.  You weren't perfect, but you signed the Emancipation Proclamation and that was the crack in the door we needed.  Thank You  :)

I think he is rolling over in his his grave at what has become of "his" party.

I think he is rolling over in his his grave at what has become of "his" party.


I think he is rolling over in his grave at what  has happened to his country.

I think he is rolling over in his his grave at what has become of "his" party.


wasn't he a republican and weren't republicans back then more like democrats now?


I don't know its just some lame concept I walked away from high school history with....  am I right? 

wasn't he a republican and weren't republicans back then more like democrats now?


I don't know its just some lame concept I walked away from high school history with....  am I right? 


Republicans back then were considered socially progressive.  Democrats back then were as conservative as Republicans are today.  Status quo, ect, ect.

Republicans back then were considered socially progressive.  Democrats back then were as conservative as Republicans are today.  Status quo, ect, ect.



woo hoo... I actually learned something from high school history then!  ;D

woo hoo... I actually learned something from high school history then!  ;D


Yes, imagine if you could have stayed awake. 

Yes, imagine if you could have stayed awake. 


seriously....you know me so well.... My teacher asked once what important event happened January 30th (I didn't hear the year)  I answered that my friend (and fellow classmate) was born....apparently that was the wrong answer... I don't remember the right answer - just the important one!  ;D

Lincoln once said "labor is prior to and superior to capital" and "it is the legitimate responsibility of government to assure that every worker receive the full measure of his (or her) labor"

I think he is rolling over in his grave at what  has happened to his country.


I don't know.  As much as I complain about certain things in America, we're doing a lot better now than we were back in his day.

Still, I'd have to agree that Darwin is more worthy of celebration.

Republicans back then were considered socially progressive.  Democrats back then were as conservative as Republicans are today.  Status quo, ect, ect.


...or to be more exact, the GOP were basically Libertarians in Lincoln's day (with the exception of their choice to enter the Civil War) and the Democrats were populists.

Nowadays, the Democrats still have a populist wing, and the Republicans still have a Libertarian wing, but yeah, social progressivism is more a hallmark of the Democrats now.

...or to be more exact, the GOP were basically Libertarians in Lincoln's day (with the exception of their choice to enter the Civil War) and the Democrats were populists.

Nowadays, the Democrats still have a populist wing, and the Republicans still have a Libertarian wing, but yeah, social progressivism is more a hallmark of the Democrats now.



How many Democrats back then were anti-slavery and for Women's Sufferage?  Democrats might have been populist but the Republicans idealogy was more of progression.  Most of the Libertarians back then had their radicalist side.  Republicans have the libertarians and some religious radicals.

How many Democrats back then were anti-slavery and for Women's Sufferage?  Democrats might have been populist but the Republicans idealogy was more of progression.  Most of the Libertarians back then had their radicalist side.  Republicans have the libertarians and some religious radicals.


I'm not disputing what you said.  Populism is a political ideology that is socially conservative and economically liberal.  Hence, Democrats were against social progression (like ending slavery and promoting women's suffrage), but they supported government intervention in the market to the same degree as they do now.  The difference is that, back then, the intervention normally came in the form of protectionism, whereas today, it comes more in the form of things like social programs.

The Republicans were the social liberals but were probably even more economically conservative back then than they are today.  In terms of economic policy, Bush is actually pretty moderate compared to many previous Republican presidents like Coolidge, Harding, and Hoover.

I was just pointing out that the terms libertarian and populist were more applicable in Lincoln's day than liberal or conservative, since neither party totally fit either description in terms of what we now know of as liberal and conservative.

I'm not disputing what you said.  Populism is a political ideology that is socially conservative and economically liberal.  Hence, Democrats were against social progression (like ending slavery and promoting women's suffrage), but they supported government intervention in the market to the same degree as they do now.  The difference is that, back then, the intervention normally came in the form of protectionism, whereas today, it comes more in the form of things like social programs.

The Republicans were the social liberals but were probably even more economically conservative back then than they are today.  In terms of economic policy, Bush is actually pretty moderate compared to many previous Republican presidents like Coolidge, Harding, and Hoover.

I was just pointing out that the terms libertarian and populist were more applicable in Lincoln's day than liberal or conservative, since neither party totally fit either description in terms of what we now know of as liberal and conservative.



Politics was just as messed up as it is now.  When exactly did Republicans become social conservatives and Dems become socially progressive?  I've been racking my brain trying to pinpoint the exact year.

Politics was just as messed up as it is now.  When exactly did Republicans become social conservatives and Dems become socially progressive?  I've been racking my brain trying to pinpoint the exact year.


Republicans became the party of social conservatism in the 1960s.  One could argue it happened before that, but I think it really started with LBJ signing the Civil Rights bill.  This upset the old order.  If you want things back the way they were, you generally call yourself a conservative.  Conservatives fled the Democratic party after LBJ signed Civil Rights.  Then in the 1970s, the Christian fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham started harping on the fears over the way the country was changing.  They did it through the Republican party where the people who hated the Civil Rights mandates had fled. 

I find so little of this centered on consistent principle.  If you're into the bible, you think the bible should be taught in schools.  If you're into cocaine, you think cocaine should be legalized.  Whatever.  It's all about lifestyle. 

Republicans became the party of social conservatism in the 1960s.  One could argue it happened before that, but I think it really started with LBJ signing the Civil Rights bill.  This upset the old order.  If you want things back the way they were, you generally call yourself a conservative.  Conservatives fled the Democratic party after LBJ signed Civil Rights.  Then in the 1970s, the Christian fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham started harping on the fears over the way the country was changing.  They did it through the Republican party where the people who hated the Civil Rights mandates had fled. 

I find so little of this centered on consistent principle.  If you're into the bible, you think the bible should be taught in schools.  If you're into cocaine, you think cocaine should be legalized.  Whatever.  It's all about lifestyle. 


For the most part, I agree.

The Civil Rights Act began the slow process of the South becoming Republican and the Northeast and West Coast becoming Democratic.  In addition to this, a lot of Vietnam veterans became alienated with the treatment they got from hippies when they returned home.  Since hippies were usually Democrats, the military vote slowly became Republican in response to this.  Since the military draws more people from the South than from the North and West, this also affected the political landscape a lot.

Reagan was the first major Republican to capitalize on the rise of the Religious Right, which pretty much completed the process of securing the Solid South for the Republicans.  The term Solid South used to refer to the solid support Democrats received from the South, but it's becoming the opposite at this point.

One interesting idiosyncrasy of the South is that many local politicians are still Democrats, but voters tend to send Republicans to national offices.  My state of North Carolina is a perfect example.

In NC, we have a Democratic Governor, and a Democratic majority in both state legislative houses.  However, in the last decade or two, we've often had 2 Republican Congressional senators.  With the election of Kay Hagan, we now have 1 Democrat and 1 Republican.  The makeup of our House Representatives has been more diverse over the years, but for a while, we had more Republicans than Democrats.  Currently, however, we have 8 Democrats and 5 Republicans.

When it comes to presidential elections, we hadn't elected a Democratic president since Jimmy Carter in 1976.  Obama, however, managed to win this state by about 1%.

The reason for this difference in political affiliations between the state and national offices is that Southern Democrats tend to be much more conservative than Democratic party leaders on a national scale.  The South is the home of "Blue Dog" Democrats -- the populist wing of the Democratic party.