Mostly in relation to this article, Tam's cajoled me to start a thread about censorship.

For those who don't want to read the article, the Cliff's notes on this are basically that the original cover for the album Virgin Killer by the Scorpions contains a picture of a pre-pubescent naked girl. Etc.

From a standpoint where I'm completely confused about politics, I don't understand how public knowledge can be censored to this degree. There are other ways in which censorship is becoming ridiculous, but I just thought everyone should be aware of this recent news article.

I don't know. This isn't the only censorship that's going on at the moment, but it seems to be the most ridiculous and the most avoidable. Where's the line between protecting those who need to be protected, knowing that those who aren't protected have enough nous to know how to protect themselves..

When will Big Brother become the little sister to common sense and the ability for people to pick and choose what and where they see stuff printed on the Internet? And, more to the point, frankly what is anyone doing being a Scorpions fan?

It's still reeks of puritanical viewpoints (at least here in the U.S.)  Since Wikipedia caters to some kids who have reports due and don't like to go to the library some thing must be censored.  I'm surprised they tell about methods of torture, witchcraft, and alternative lifestyles.  Censorship comes in waves.  Let's hope this one eases up soon.

I have a friend who is a Scorpions fan.  What were YOU doing looking it up anyway? ;D

I have to make it look like I'm following the news slightly, else I come off looking like a dufus.

I have to make it look like I'm following the news slightly, else I come off looking like a dufus.


Oh well that's a diferent story. :)

Strange.. I don't remember that album cover when I was a teenager into Scorpions - and I'm sure I would have done.

But if you want a really bizarre censorship story:

TheRegister"]An Australian man has lost his appeal against child pornography charges for possessing images of the Simpsons characters having sex.

The Supreme Court of New South Wales upheld a lower court's decision which found him guilty of possessing child pornography.

...possibly the most stupid child pornography conviction, ever.

^
I cannot believe that one ::)

As for all this...child pornography used to be appealing to a tiny minority of our society until this "crusade" against it started. It seems today because this subject is so talked about the number of pedophiles is actually growing.

I'm the last person who will condone pedophilia but the lack of common sense about this issue is appalling imo

Strange.. I don't remember that album cover when I was a teenager into Scorpions - and I'm sure I would have done.

But if you want a really bizarre censorship story:

...possibly the most stupid child pornography conviction, ever.


It's a freakin computer image.  There are no real children involved or even images of kids. >:(

More nanny statism from Europe....

But hey, at least they're not as bad as Australia about it.

Of course, America is also moving in the nanny state direction regarding media, so who knows how bad it will be in a matter of years?

Lesse if I got this correct:  the UK is blocking a portion (or all) of Wikipedia because of a 33 year old photo of a nude girl that was double censored (glass crack across privates, alternate cover art) in the first place.

jfc

Ant

The CP hysteria is a ruse political powers use to exert more control over internet content, more surveillance of users, and a chilling effect to content providers. 

If we are not to distinguish between a Robert Mapplethorpe photo and underground CP rape video from darkest Russia, then we are not to distinguish between posting bomb-building ingredients and advocating the bombing of federal buildings. 

The Internet can be a great force for grassroots expression or it can be the eye of Big Brother.  Of course the powers that be want it to be the latter and they're going to create moral panic about pornography and terrorism to make it so!

I don't worry about old letches leering at photos from nudist colonies or twisted loners dowloading "The Turner Diaries."  I worry about big government and big business pushing the rest of us around!
>:(

I just can't wait'll Matt Groenig sues the pants off the IOC for the logo for the 2012 Olympics. 

(I didn't see it at first either, but when a cow orker said "Stop that, Lisa.  That's just wrong", fists were pounded on tables, there was much laughter, and bricks were indeed disposed of in a most unseemly fashion.)

Anyways, when you see it, you will defecate bricks. 

Strange.. I don't remember that album cover when I was a teenager into Scorpions - and I'm sure I would have done.


From memory, the album was released with different covers in Europe and in America.

I just can't wait'll Matt Groenig sues the pants off the IOC for the logo for the 2012 Olympics. 

(I didn't see it at first either, but when a cow orker said "Stop that, Lisa.  That's just wrong", fists were pounded on tables, there was much laughter, and bricks were indeed disposed of in a most unseemly fashion.)

Anyways, when you see it, you will defecate bricks. 


Okay, I'll admit it took me a bit, but yeah, I see it.

*snicker*

It's a freakin computer image.  There are no real children involved or even images of kids. >:(

Besides, Lisa must be in her 20s or 30s by now...

More nanny statism from Europe....

But hey, at least they're not as bad as Australia about it.

Of course, America is also moving in the nanny state direction regarding media, so who knows how bad it will be in a matter of years?


Of course America is!!!

Dunno who is responsible for this one but I like to blame the FCC:

Kevin Rudolf currently has a hit called "Let it Rock" featuring L'il Wayne.
Wayne has a line in the song where he lists a few women's names, and then says "ménage à moi".
The radio edit of this song (and also conveniently on Sirius Radio) blanks out "ménage à moi".

Just shows how ignorant some people really are. If you look into exactly what the words mean in french, the translation is "My Household" or "Household and Me". ::)

Because we have perverted minds, and took ménage à trois - converted it into meaning something else, now suddenly the censors think it must mean what it means. Gimme a break. If that was the case then there should have been many, many songs by Celine Dion and Roch Voisine and Vanessa Paradis (to name a few) that should never have been allowed airplay!

The FCC frustrates the Hell outta me!

Of course America is!!!

Dunno who is responsible for this one but I like to blame the FCC:

Kevin Rudolf currently has a hit called "Let it Rock" featuring L'il Wayne.
Wayne has a line in the song where he lists a few women's names, and then says "ménage à moi".
The radio edit of this song (and also conveniently on Sirius Radio) blanks out "ménage à moi".

Just shows how ignorant some people really are. If you look into exactly what the words mean in french, the translation is "My Household" or "Household and Me". ::)

Parlay voo fran-say much?
:D

Some of the comics they show on Comedy Central do routines with profanity every other word.  It's one thing if they're broadcasting it late at night without censor, but in the evening, why bother?  It sounds like the guy's doing his stand-up in Morse code!

The other night AMC was showing "Casino."  Now, Scorsese and Co. aren't like those angry potty-mouth kids on Comedy Central.  These guys are Shakespearian vulgarians!  It's an art with DeNiro and Pesci!  There are only so many times you can splice in "freaking" and "flipping" and "shoot" before the audio track goes out of sync and it looks like one of those dubbed karate movies!
::)

Some radio station used censor Pink Floyd "Money" back in the '70s,
"Don't give me that good-goody-good bull (bleep)"


The FCC frustrates the Hell outta me!



You mean frustrates the heck out of you!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/nono.gif

I just can't wait'll Matt Groenig sues the pants off the IOC for the logo for the 2012 Olympics. 

(I didn't see it at first either, but when a cow orker said "Stop that, Lisa.  That's just wrong", fists were pounded on tables, there was much laughter, and bricks were indeed disposed of in a most unseemly fashion.)

Anyways, when you see it, you will defecate bricks. 

O-tay! I see it.  Your cow orker must be the typo guy who looks for smutty stuff in the ice cubes on liquor ads!
:P

The FCC frustrates the Hell outta me!

Have you heard Eric Idle's FCC song?

Have you heard Eric Idle's FCC song?


She needs to hear it.  That's a great song.  He's got it so you can download it for free on Pythononline.com. 

Have you heard Eric Idle's FCC song?


She needs to hear it.  That's a great song.  He's got it so you can download it for free on Pythononline.com. 


I will definitely go check it out!!! ;)

I will definitely go check it out!!! ;)


Thought I should warn you it's got the F-word in it and it mentions the Bush administration.  But . . . who am I to tell you what you can and can't handle. ;D

For the first time in the last three and a half days, I've actually been able to access the Virgin Killer article. Looks like they've eased up.

For the first time in the last three and a half days, I've actually been able to access the Virgin Killer article. Looks like they've eased up.


Yea!!!  Now I have to go look the darn thing up.  I hate power of suggestion.

Thought I should warn you it's got the F-word in it and it mentions the Bush administration.  But . . . who am I to tell you what you can and can't handle. ;D


Hahaha!! ;D
Heidi Fleiss and Howard Stern QUACK!
Hahaha!
That was awesome!!!

Have you heard Eric Idle's FCC song?

Oh, you mean "I Bet You the Won't Play This Song on the Radio"?
;D

That album cover was wrong, I'm sorry.

Anyone seen that "Family Guy" episode where the FCC censored "Dick van Dyke" and what Ralph from "The Honeymooners" said?

I also mentioned this on another website but in one Disney Comic which was released in Germany had Scrooge use his own and his grandnephew's shirts as torches (Just like what Indiana Jones did to his jacket in "The Last Crusade") and the only thing they wore were their hats. But when that comic came to the states...underclothes were added!

I will give you the pics real soon.

Oh, you mean "I Bet You the Won't Play This Song on the Radio"?
;D


No, he wrote another one after he got fined by the FCC.

Of course America is!!!

Dunno who is responsible for this one but I like to blame the FCC:

Kevin Rudolf currently has a hit called "Let it Rock" featuring L'il Wayne.
Wayne has a line in the song where he lists a few women's names, and then says "ménage à moi".
The radio edit of this song (and also conveniently on Sirius Radio) blanks out "ménage à moi".

Just shows how ignorant some people really are. If you look into exactly what the words mean in french, the translation is "My Household" or "Household and Me". ::)

Because we have perverted minds, and took ménage à trois - converted it into meaning something else, now suddenly the censors think it must mean what it means. Gimme a break. If that was the case then there should have been many, many songs by Celine Dion and Roch Voisine and Vanessa Paradis (to name a few) that should never have been allowed airplay!

The FCC frustrates the Hell outta me!



As bad as the FCC is, Australia's OFLC is worse.  Also, it looks like various countries are aiming to add government filtering to their internet access.  Australia is one of the countries which has proposed this (mostly regarding porn), and even the U.K. has.

Quite a lot of the First World is falling prey to nanny statism, but thankfully, the U.S. is actually less that way than many other countries.

I just can't wait'll Matt Groenig sues the pants off the IOC for the logo for the 2012 Olympics. 

(I didn't see it at first either, but when a cow orker said "Stop that, Lisa.  That's just wrong", fists were pounded on tables, there was much laughter, and bricks were indeed disposed of in a most unseemly fashion.)

Anyways, when you see it, you will defecate bricks. 


Someone help me here, I don't see what I am supposed to see.

Someone help me here, I don't see what I am supposed to see.


I don't see it either.

Someone help me here, I don't see what I am supposed to see.



I don't see it either.


What clean minds you have!

The right hand part of the picture (0 and 2) sort of looks like Lisa Simpson and it sort of looks like she's kneeling down in front of a bloke.  :-\\ 

I don't know that it is a clean mind...I just have no imagination.  I see it now that you pointed it out.

No, he wrote another one after he got fined by the FCC.

Oh, I'm sure I've heard it, I just can't think of it right now...

Oh, I'm sure I've heard it, I just can't think of it right now...

<voice=Noel Coward>Here's a little number I wrote while out duck-hunting with a judge</voice>
...I was going to quote some more, here's the longest bit I can think of that won't get bowdlerised:

Your pacemaker must be a fake, you haven't got a heart
As far as I'm concerned you're just a pasty-faced old fart
And as for Condoleeza she's an intellectual...

I don't know what's been said so far, but this is what I think:

The government cannot decide what's offensive; that is up to individual. We all may be offended by something, but we can't all decide on certain things everybody should be insulted by.

If you're offended by such things, avoid them.

What clean minds you have!

The right hand part of the picture (0 and 2) sort of looks like Lisa Simpson and it sort of looks like she's kneeling down in front of a bloke.  :-\\ 


Well I have never been accused of that  ;D  I would say that you guys are truly, truly, perverted  ;D ;D

I suggest that graphic designer stay out of Austrailia!
:P

All books can be indecent books, though recent books are bolder
For filth, I'm glad to say, is in the mind of the beholder
When correctly viewed
Everything is lewd
I could tell you things about Peter Pan
Or the Wizard of Oz (there's a dirty old man)

I don't know what's been said so far, but this is what I think:

The government cannot decide what's offensive; that is up to individual. We all may be offended by something, but we can't all decide on certain things everybody should be insulted by.

If you're offended by such things, avoid them.


True that is. :)

Here's the FCC Song!...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpY4pni0qL8

No I think it's this one. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ajZ-5kTXk

They're both about the FCC.

As I mentioned earlier, some U.S. Disney Comics got censored.

Here's one from Germany....http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3180/image9lv6.jpg

And here's the same one in America....http://dcf.outducks.org/contrib/img/resized_274I0K_AbiwCl.jpeg

All I have to say is..."What the fudge"? Because In "Fantasia/2000"-'Pomp and Circumstance' Segment, we see Donald Duck like this!...http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/32/donfantasiadesnudojm6.th.png

    I did not take the time to read all of the post so I am just stating my opinion on censorship. I own a Sirius Radio, and I pay a subscription for this service.  So how is it that the FCC has proposed on more than one occasion to start monitoring the Satellite Radio Forum? If they start to control the content of this subscription service are they going to do the same to cable or satellite TV. The unfair fines and censorship of such stars as Howard Stern, Scott Ferrell, and Bubba The Love Sponge has chased them to Satellite and has led to the death of entertaining talk radio.

What clean minds you have!

The right hand part of the picture (0 and 2) sort of looks like Lisa Simpson and it sort of looks like she's kneeling down in front of a bloke.  :-\\ 


Sorry, I don't see it. The right hand part of the picture looks nothing like Lisa Simpson. I suppose it might look like someone kneeling down, if you look at it hard enough. But then, you could find naughty images like that everywhere, if you wanted to. If you look at it the right way, a fluffy cloud in the sky might resemble a bunch of teamsters having an orgy with a sheep.

As bad as the FCC is, Australia's OFLC is worse.  Also, it looks like various countries are aiming to add government filtering to their internet access.  Australia is one of the countries which has proposed this (mostly regarding porn), and even the U.K. has.


GROOOOAN!  In the finest of traditions, no-one you speak to here in general conversation sees the need for it, yet the Government tells us we all need it.  Dig it, I don't give a flying toss which side on politics is in power, in Australia, very little changes between one party and the next anyway, so if the last mob had been in, they would have done it as well.

I am a big boy now, I like to be able to decide when to point percy at the porcelain WITHOUT waiting for a politician to ring me and tell me I am allowed to do so!  Similarly I can make my own choices on the net. 

I have children.  Until such time as they were of an appropriate age, I had filters in place via my firewall and router.  And yes, they worked, 'cause I tested them from their PCs.  And no, they didn't know the password.  Simple concept.

Don't need any more help and DON'T need to be restricted because OTHER people don't give a toss about what their kids see.  This is the problem with everything at the moment - the symptoms get treated, not the cause.

Random examples - we haven't been legally allowed to use fireworks where I live now for over 30 years, ostensibly because someone's little Johnny was too dim to think to throw a thunderbunger after he lit it and it took his fingers off. 

SYMPTOMS: Fingers blown off, much pain and suffering. 

CAUSE: Johnny's parents are too brain-dead to supervise him properly, or restrict access to said fireworks so he cannot be lighting them on his own.

RESULT: The rest of us who enjoyed fireworks night long every year for the fun we used to have.

Example Nbr 2: There have been a couple of fatal accidents at level crossings in the last couple of months in the far north of my state (the land that time forgot ( ;D) where trucks have disobeyed the signals/signs and crossed in front of trains.  End result: train wins/truck loses.  First one both train drivers are killed.  Second one yesterday, truck driver is killed.  Media and public up in arms over dangerous trains!!!  Hello?  In both cases, the crossings were clearly marked.  There is a clear requirement to stop and observe.  There is a clear concept that trains at ALL times have right of way over other traffic, as they take some time to stop.

SYMPTOMS: Dead people, ruined infrastructure

CAUSE: Truck drivers ignore clear rules, concepts and signage and lights - and I might add, the messages that their BRAINS should be sending to the foot near the brake pedal...  ::)

RESULT: Hysteria prevails - "we must ensure that every crossing in the state is marked my boom gates, flashing lights, bells, etc etc" at great expense to the public budget.  Whilst we are at it, I recommend a man with a red flag to make the train stop if anyone is driving on the road.  Idiots.  Perfect examples of how thinking in the world is arse-about.  No-one takes any of their own responsibilities seriously, but they want everyone else to look after them.

Oops, am I ranting?  I will stop now  :)


Quite a lot of the First World is falling prey to nanny statism, but thankfully, the U.S. is actually less that way than many other countries.


Fear not, Macphisto , ye shall catch up soon  :P


Sorry, I don't see it. The right hand part of the picture looks nothing like Lisa Simpson. I suppose it might look like someone kneeling down, if you look at it hard enough. But then, you could find naughty images like that everywhere, if you wanted to. If you look at it the right way, a fluffy cloud in the sky might resemble a bunch of teamsters having an orgy with a sheep.


If I wanted to check out that last bit, I would log onto a site ending with ".nz" - although that joke may be a tad obscure outside my part of the world...  ;)


Someone help me here, I don't see what I am supposed to see.


I don't see it either.


Ah!  What good girls you are  :-*  We know where you are going when you shuffle from this mortal coil  ;D

GROOOOAN!  In the finest of traditions, no-one you speak to here in general conversation sees the need for it, yet the Government tells us we all need it.  Dig it, I don't give a flying toss which side on politics is in power, in Australia, very little changes between one party and the next anyway, so if the last mob had been in, they would have done it as well.

I am a big boy now, I like to be able to decide when to point percy at the porcelain WITHOUT waiting for a politician to ring me and tell me I am allowed to do so!  Similarly I can make my own choices on the net. 

I have children.  Until such time as they were of an appropriate age, I had filters in place via my firewall and router.  And yes, they worked, 'cause I tested them from their PCs.  And no, they didn't know the password.  Simple concept.

Don't need any more help and DON'T need to be restricted because OTHER people don't give a toss about what their kids see.  This is the problem with everything at the moment - the symptoms get treated, not the cause.

Random examples - we haven't been legally allowed to use fireworks where I live now for over 30 years, ostensibly because someone's little Johnny was too dim to think to throw a thunderbunger after he lit it and it took his fingers off. 

SYMPTOMS: Fingers blown off, much pain and suffering. 

CAUSE: Johnny's parents are too brain-dead to supervise him properly, or restrict access to said fireworks so he cannot be lighting them on his own.

RESULT: The rest of us who enjoyed fireworks night long every year for the fun we used to have.

Example Nbr 2: There have been a couple of fatal accidents at level crossings in the last couple of months in the far north of my state (the land that time forgot ( ;D) where trucks have disobeyed the signals/signs and crossed in front of trains.  End result: train wins/truck loses.  First one both train drivers are killed.  Second one yesterday, truck driver is killed.  Media and public up in arms over dangerous trains!!!  Hello?  In both cases, the crossings were clearly marked.  There is a clear requirement to stop and observe.  There is a clear concept that trains at ALL times have right of way over other traffic, as they take some time to stop.

SYMPTOMS: Dead people, ruined infrastructure

CAUSE: Truck drivers ignore clear rules, concepts and signage and lights - and I might add, the messages that their BRAINS should be sending to the foot near the brake pedal...  ::)

RESULT: Hysteria prevails - "we must ensure that every crossing in the state is marked my boom gates, flashing lights, bells, etc etc" at great expense to the public budget.  Whilst we are at it, I recommend a man with a red flag to make the train stop if anyone is driving on the road.  Idiots.  Perfect examples of how thinking in the world is arse-about.  No-one takes any of their own responsibilities seriously, but they want everyone else to look after them.

Oops, am I ranting?  I will stop now  :)

Fear not, Macphisto , ye shall catch up soon  :P

If I wanted to check out that last bit, I would log onto a site ending with ".nz" - although that joke may be a tad obscure outside my part of the world...  ;)

Ah!  What good girls you are  :-*  We know where you are going when you shuffle from this mortal coil  ;D


Good points, Fuss.  Stephen Fieldings seems like the kind of guy that needs to get impeached.  He's holding your legislature hostage.

     I did not take the time to read all of the post so I am just stating my opinion on censorship. I own a Sirius Radio, and I pay a subscription for this service.  So how is it that the FCC has proposed on more than one occasion to start monitoring the Satellite Radio Forum? If they start to control the content of this subscription service are they going to do the same to cable or satellite TV. The unfair fines and censorship of such stars as Howard Stern, Scott Ferrell, and Bubba The Love Sponge has chased them to Satellite and has led to the death of entertaining talk radio.


There's not much vigor in satellite radio either.  You can talk dirty but so what?  The merger of XM and Sirius shows me satellite radio has fallen into generic corporate blandness the way cable TV has. 
::)

Good points, Fuss.  Stephen Fieldings seems like the kind of guy that needs to get impeached.  He's holding your legislature hostage.


Quite so

We have seemed recently to always end up in a situation where an independent holds the balance of power in the senate.  In some cases that makes them the most powerful person in the land, and that tends to get away from the intent of the senate - as a whole - making decisions...

Stephen Fielding, of course, represents the "Family First" party - so one can see where his particular desire in this subject would be logically located.

However, the fact that the senate is so evenly distributed between both major parties should not be used as an excuse to simply propegate one's own personal viewpoints, and then pass them off as being a mandate of the people.  Grrr !

Fuss retains his right (if only I was a Yank I could chuck in the part about 'under the constitution', heh heh  ;) :P) to view websites that display gay disabled nazi pinko commie goats - but only because I might WANT to  ;D  Then again, maybe I wouldn't.  But Stephen Fielding is not my Mum or Dad!  Damn the torpedoes!  Damn Stephen Fielding!  :D

Quite so

We have seemed recently to always end up in a situation where an independent holds the balance of power in the senate.  In some cases that makes them the most powerful person in the land, and that tends to get away from the intent of the senate - as a whole - making decisions...

Stephen Fielding, of course, represents the "Family First" party - so one can see where his particular desire in this subject would be logically located.

However, the fact that the senate is so evenly distributed between both major parties should not be used as an excuse to simply propegate one's own personal viewpoints, and then pass them off as being a mandate of the people.  Grrr !

Fuss retains his right (if only I was a Yank I could chuck in the part about 'under the constitution', heh heh  ;) :P) to view websites that display gay disabled nazi pinko commie goats - but only because I might WANT to  ;D  Then again, maybe I wouldn't.  But Stephen Fielding is not my Mum or Dad!  Damn the torpedoes!  Damn Stephen Fielding!  :D


It's kind of funny how I used to be a big fan of coalition governments, but after seeing Fieldings's thorough raping of the system for his own sick censorship fantasies in Australia, I have to say that I'm actually glad America has only 2 parties.

The Republicans and Democrats often suck pretty hard, but at least they usually aren't as crazy as some of the third parties like the Constitution Party.

Granted, I still like many things about the Greens and the Libertarians.

It's kind of funny how I used to be a big fan of coalition governments, but after seeing Fieldings's thorough raping of the system for his own sick censorship fantasies in Australia, I have to say that I'm actually glad America has only 2 parties.


Careful what you're grateful for.  The US federal elections of 2000 and 2004 were won by razor-thin margins.  The US Senate has been 50/50 and 49/51 for much of the past 12 years. 

What that means is that the past two elections weren't decided by groundswells of popular support, but by whoever could get out the largest number of votes from the nation's most fanatical splinter groups, and that every Senator gets to feast at the trough, knowing that every Senator's vote has to be bought and paid for before anything can be brought up for a vote.

The problem isn't just at the top; it's at the bottom, too.  Look at the number of 49/51% splits we've had in the popular vote.  The electoral outcomes are too close for coincidence; they're the accidental outcome of what happens when you combine a first-past-the-post system with gerrymandering and modern data mining / polling / message targeting techniques.  Each "side" carves off a big hunk of electoral space for itself, so that they only have to concentrate their limited resources on a very small number of voters in order to gain power.  It's why we argue about wedge issues like Swift Boats, forged National Guard memos, abortion, gays, Sarah's wardrobe, Joe the Plumber, Red States, Blue States, clinging to guns and religion, and "pro-America America" rather than substantive issues. 

(I liked that Wikipedia article -- if you Aussies refer to these as "dog whistle issues", meaning "messages that are only heard by targeted demographics", you've got a better sense of the problem than we do.  A wedge issue isn't useful merely because it splits a voting bloc; it's only politically advantageous when one side cares passionately about the issue and the other side doesn't.)

We've failed in the same manner as Australia, it's just that we're better off at pretending otherwise.

Careful what you're grateful for.  The US federal elections of 2000 and 2004 were won by razor-thin margins.  The US Senate has been 50/50 and 49/51 for much of the past 12 years. 

What that means is that the past two elections weren't decided by groundswells of popular support, but by whoever could get out the largest number of votes from the nation's most fanatical splinter groups, and that every Senator gets to feast at the trough, knowing that every Senator's vote has to be bought and paid for before anything can be brought up for a vote.

The problem isn't just at the top; it's at the bottom, too.  Look at the number of 49/51% splits we've had in the popular vote.  The electoral outcomes are too close for coincidence; they're the accidental outcome of what happens when you combine a first-past-the-post system with gerrymandering and modern data mining / polling / message targeting techniques.  Each "side" carves off a big hunk of electoral space for itself, so that they only have to concentrate their limited resources on a very small number of voters in order to gain power.  It's why we argue about wedge issues like Swift Boats, forged National Guard memos, abortion, gays, Sarah's wardrobe, Joe the Plumber, Red States, Blue States, clinging to guns and religion, and "pro-America America" rather than substantive issues. 

(I liked that Wikipedia article -- if you Aussies refer to these as "dog whistle issues", meaning "messages that are only heard by targeted demographics", you've got a better sense of the problem than we do.  A wedge issue isn't useful merely because it splits a voting bloc; it's only politically advantageous when one side cares passionately about the issue and the other side doesn't.)

We've failed in the same manner as Australia, it's just that we're better off at pretending otherwise.


Well said...  I hadn't really thought of that.  Well dang...  what is the solution then?...  I suppose Instant Runoff Voting might help...

Careful what you're grateful for.  The US federal elections of 2000 and 2004 were won by razor-thin margins.  The US Senate has been 50/50 and 49/51 for much of the past 12 years. 

What that means is that the past two elections weren't decided by groundswells of popular support, but by whoever could get out the largest number of votes from the nation's most fanatical splinter groups, and that every Senator gets to feast at the trough, knowing that every Senator's vote has to be bought and paid for before anything can be brought up for a vote.

The problem isn't just at the top; it's at the bottom, too.  Look at the number of 49/51% splits we've had in the popular vote.  The electoral outcomes are too close for coincidence; they're the accidental outcome of what happens when you combine a first-past-the-post system with gerrymandering and modern data mining / polling / message targeting techniques.  Each "side" carves off a big hunk of electoral space for itself, so that they only have to concentrate their limited resources on a very small number of voters in order to gain power.  It's why we argue about wedge issues like Swift Boats, forged National Guard memos, abortion, gays, Sarah's wardrobe, Joe the Plumber, Red States, Blue States, clinging to guns and religion, and "pro-America America" rather than substantive issues. 

(I liked that Wikipedia article -- if you Aussies refer to these as "dog whistle issues", meaning "messages that are only heard by targeted demographics", you've got a better sense of the problem than we do.  A wedge issue isn't useful merely because it splits a voting bloc; it's only politically advantageous when one side cares passionately about the issue and the other side doesn't.)

We've failed in the same manner as Australia, it's just that we're better off at pretending otherwise.


Vote for me!  I'm for good things and against bad things!
::)