The whole case of the eight year old who allegedly murdered his father is, of course, falling apart.  The police, once again, using coercive tactics, have sullied their case against this child. The video of the "interrogation" shows the child starting out saying one thing, then after some leading questions and an hours time, changing the whole story and "confessing".  He probably doesn't really understand at that point what is going on, did the police not think that maybe the kid was in shock?  Did they not think any defense attorney worth more than a dime wouldn't rip this whole thing apart? The only people present are two police officers, they did not at anytime get in touch with a responsible adult family member or advocate before cajoling a "confession".  This is so wrong on so many different levels, but not unusual.  The police continually prove themselves idiots more intent on closing their books on a crime than finding the truth. 

Yeah, I thought the cops went about it in a totally ham-fisted manner.  That's what I expect from cops.  It looks like an eight-year-old killed his father and and his father's friend in cold blood, just shot them dead.  So the cops don't think they need to treat the child of eight any differently from a grown man of twenty-eight. 

What you have here is moral panic.  There will be a whole faction of yahoos who'll want the kid tried as an adult and sentenced to death.  That wasn't going to happen in any case.  Barring death, they were going to ask for trial as an adult and life in prison.  They're not going to get that now either.  Now chances are they'll get the dreaded liberal coddling: Reform school 'till the boy's twenty-one.
  ::)

Yeah, I thought the cops went about it in a totally ham-fisted manner.  That's what I expect from cops.  It looks like an eight-year-old killed his father and and his father's friend in cold blood, just shot them dead.  So the cops don't think they need to treat the child of eight any differently from a grown man of twenty-eight. 

What you have here is moral panic.  There will be a whole faction of yahoos who'll want the kid tried as an adult and sentenced to death.  That wasn't going to happen in any case.  Barring death, they were going to ask for trial as an adult and life in prison.  They're not going to get that now either.  Now chances are they'll get the dreaded liberal coddling: Reform school 'till the boy's twenty-one.
  ::)


Not even that because it appears that he may not have done it.  One thing cops are good at is getting false confessions out of people.  This seems to be the case here..

Where's Johnny Cochran when you need him?

If the glove does not fit, then you must acquit.

Where's Johnny Cochran when you need him?

If the glove does not fit, then you must acquit.


For Pete sake, the kid is eight.  This isn't OJ. >:(

For Pete sake, the kid is eight.  This isn't OJ. >:(


Yet it appears that he is being framed.

Not even that because it appears that he may not have done it.  One thing cops are good at is getting false confessions out of people.  This seems to be the case here..


The kid's initial statement was that he found the men shot dead when he got home from school.  They have it all on tape, but the story is so murky.  Whether the kid did it or not, he was certainly in shock.  It's a delicate process trying to get a traumatized eight-year-old to construct a cohesive narrative.  If the kid was "pure evil" Michael Myers style, he wouldn't have changed his story. 

What the police did disgusts my mom to no end.

I also feel similiar to that as well.

What the police did disgusts my mom to no end.

I also feel similiar to that as well.

When I watched the clip of the interrogation, my wife had to tell me to stop shouting at the television: it was an appalling way to treat an eight-year-old - an hour or two of interrogation with no support (from either lawyer or family... though I guess his dad couldn't be there), it was a no-brainer that the testimony wouldn't be allowed in court.

Even if he did shoot them, the DA should be looking for whoever let an eight-year-old get their hands on a loaded gun before suggesting he's tried as an adult.

The whole case of the eight year old who allegedly murdered his father is, of course, falling apart.  The police, once again, using coercive tactics, have sullied their case against this child. The video of the "interrogation" shows the child starting out saying one thing, then after some leading questions and an hours time, changing the whole story and "confessing".  He probably doesn't really understand at that point what is going on, did the police not think that maybe the kid was in shock?  Did they not think any defense attorney worth more than a dime wouldn't rip this whole thing apart? The only people present are two police officers, they did not at anytime get in touch with a responsible adult family member or advocate before cajoling a "confession".  This is so wrong on so many different levels, but not unusual.  The police continually prove themselves idiots more intent on closing their books on a crime than finding the truth. 
A lot of lawyers aren't convinced he's the killer.

When I watched the clip of the interrogation, my wife had to tell me to stop shouting at the television: it was an appalling way to treat an eight-year-old - an hour or two of interrogation with no support (from either lawyer or family... though I guess his dad couldn't be there), it was a no-brainer that the testimony wouldn't be allowed in court.

Even if he did shoot them, the DA should be looking for whoever let an eight-year-old get their hands on a loaded gun before suggesting he's tried as an adult.


In England they woulda already hanged the little buggar at the Tyburn Tree!

Wot?  You don't do that anymore?  Oh, cheerio, then!
:P

Okay, this is just my take on what happened.

So little boy comes home from school, finds dad gravely wounded and the other guy shot dead.  So maybe pops whispered to him to get the gun and "use it" to put him out of his misery.  Little boy complies, cops show up, misunderstandings ensue.

It would sort of fit because the boy first said he came home to find his dad and the friend shot, but the dad was still alive.  Then the cops got a little too dick happy with their questioning, thinking they've found the murderer, and they get a semi-bogus confession from this kid.  In reality, you have a scared little boy who maybe tried to please his dad and then was maybe taught to respect law enforcement and what they say.

Theories....I'm full of them! :D

When I watched the clip of the interrogation, my wife had to tell me to stop shouting at the television: it was an appalling way to treat an eight-year-old - an hour or two of interrogation with no support (from either lawyer or family... though I guess his dad couldn't be there), it was a no-brainer that the testimony wouldn't be allowed in court.

Even if he did shoot them, the DA should be looking for whoever let an eight-year-old get their hands on a loaded gun before suggesting he's tried as an adult.


This case better get thrown out of court. The police reached a new low when they decided to try an 8 year old as an adult. My mom asked: How can the person who questioned him sleep at night?

My mom asked: How can the person who questioned him sleep at night?

Because she presumably thinks she's got an eight-year-old murderer to keep off the streets and wouldn't be able to sleep at night if he were allowed out.  That's her preconception, and it took over an hour to get the child to come round to it.  I bet Grissom could find out what actually happened from the blood splatter (shame it's not real life, ain't it?)

I am in Malden Massachusetts where we had a famous pedophile case, the Fells Acres Day Care  www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_Acres_Day_Care_Center  .  The child who brought the case initially had already accused his mothers boyfriend of molestation before naming guy at the day care center.  More accusations came to light after some children underwent intensive "therapy" which lasted months and included being told that some of their friends got to go to Disney after "telling the truth".  Just like the McMartin, and Little Rascals , this was a case of incompetence that ended up ruining lives.  I am not saying children do not do horrible things, but I am saying the police and those working for them will do what it takes to close a case, justice hasn't anything to do with it.

I am in Malden Massachusetts where we had a famous pedophile case, the Fells Acres Day Care  www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_Acres_Day_Care_Center  .  The child who brought the case initially had already accused his mothers boyfriend of molestation before naming guy at the day care center.  More accusations came to light after some children underwent intensive "therapy" which lasted months and included being told that some of their friends got to go to Disney after "telling the truth".  Just like the McMartin, and Little Rascals , this was a case of incompetence that ended up ruining lives.  I am not saying children do not do horrible things, but I am saying the police and those working for them will do what it takes to close a case, justice hasn't anything to do with it.

And to think that it happened in Massachusetts!  Have we learned nothing in 300 years!  It was the same phenomenon as witch hunt hysteria.  So when the the children talked of getting flushed down the toilet and molested in the sewers by purple giraffes or getting flown by jet plane and violated with carving knives while airborne (all this and being set for pickup at the daycare at 2:00 without mom noticing anything peculiar) the "community" gasped in horror and shrieked, "Get the evil ones! Get the evil ones!"
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/evil_lol.gif

And then when confronted with their own hysteria, the "adults" reasoned, "Well, they must have done something..."  Back in colonial times, the courts used to allow the accused witch the possibility of innocence.  How to demonstrate innocence: Throw her into the river.  If she sinks, she's innocent.  If she floats, it's the devil keeping her bouyant.

The accused can't win!

The latest report is that he keep track of all his spankings and when he got to 1,000 that was his limit.The night before he received 5 from his step mother,because she was told by the dad to do so because he did not do a school assignment. His grandma said they were too hard on him and knew he was capable of doing something like this.
I found this article

PHOENIX — An 8-year-old St. Johns, Ariz., boy charged with double-homicide may have kept a written record of spankings by his parents, vowing that the 1,000th would be his limit, according to a police records released Friday.
A search affidavit by Sgt. Lucas Rodriguez says the child "is believed to have made ledgers and or communicated in the form of writings about his intentions. (The boy) told a CPS. .. worker that when he reached one thousand spankings. .. that would be his limit. (The boy) kept a tally of his spankings on a piece of paper."

In a statement to police a day after the Nov. 5 killings, the boy said he had been spanked the day before the shootings because he did not complete a school assignment.

The juvenile is charged with shooting his father and a family friend, 39-year-old Timothy Romans, at the family's home in St. Johns, about 225 miles northeast of Phoenix

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'

The latest report is that he keep track of all his spankings and when he got to 1,000 that was his limit.The night before he received 5 from his step mother,because she was told by the dad to do so because he did not do a school assignment. His grandma said they were too hard on him and knew he was capable of doing something like this.
I found this article

PHOENIX — An 8-year-old St. Johns, Ariz., boy charged with double-homicide may have kept a written record of spankings by his parents, vowing that the 1,000th would be his limit, according to a police records released Friday.
A search affidavit by Sgt. Lucas Rodriguez says the child "is believed to have made ledgers and or communicated in the form of writings about his intentions. (The boy) told a CPS. .. worker that when he reached one thousand spankings. .. that would be his limit. (The boy) kept a tally of his spankings on a piece of paper."

In a statement to police a day after the Nov. 5 killings, the boy said he had been spanked the day before the shootings because he did not complete a school assignment.

The juvenile is charged with shooting his father and a family friend, 39-year-old Timothy Romans, at the family's home in St. Johns, about 225 miles northeast of Phoenix

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'




So the whole family knew this child was being abused and did nothing?  If he did do it maybe he just didn't plan it out well enough, it sounds like a few more people deserved a bullet

They made the kid keep a tally of his own spankings and when he got to 1000 that would be his limit?

How did that contract work?  What constituted a spanking?  Was it whack-for-whack or per spanking session? 

Maybe he was trying to do what most of us would do, get all one thousand out of the way early so he could get the rest of his childhood scot-fee...but the stress proved too much for the little fellow!
:-\\

Because she presumably thinks she's got an eight-year-old murderer to keep off the streets and wouldn't be able to sleep at night if he were allowed out.  That's her preconception, and it took over an hour to get the child to come round to it.  I bet Grissom could find out what actually happened from the blood splatter (shame it's not real life, ain't it?)


I hope she's a redhead, we can send her to Canada on the next ginger kicking holiday.

I hope she's a redhead, we can send her to Canada on the next ginger kicking holiday.


;D

They made the kid keep a tally of his own spankings and when he got to 1000 that would be his limit?

How did that contract work?  What constituted a spanking?  Was it whack-for-whack or per spanking session? 

Maybe he was trying to do what most of us would do, get all one thousand out of the way early so he could get the rest of his childhood scot-fee...but the stress proved too much for the little fellow!
:-\\

I don't think they made him keep a tally,he did it on his own.

They were too busy beating the jesus out of him to count

They were too busy beating the jesus out of him to count

If he did shoot them you wonder if he would of shot the step mother too.She was the last one to spank him.

I suspected there was something demented going on. "Oh, there doesn't appear to be any signs of abuse."  What, he did it just for fun?  Come on!  I wonder if the boarder was in on it.
::)

I read today that they are discussing a plea deal - no details though.

I read today that they are discussing a plea deal - no details though.

This article was on Yahoo


Plea deal for 8 year old murder suspect? AP PHOENIX – Prosecutors have offered a plea deal to an 8-year-old boy charged with murder in the shooting deaths of his father and another man in their eastern Arizona home, court records show.

Complete details of the offer weren't spelled out in a court filing posted Saturday on the Apache County Superior Court's Web site.

But County Attorney Criss Candelaria wrote that he has "tendered a plea offer to the juvenile's attorneys that would resolve all the charges in the juvenile court contingent on the results of the mental health evaluations."

Candelaria was responding to a defense motion seeking to block him from dropping one of two first-degree murder charges the boy faces in the deaths of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, earlier this month.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued in a filing Tuesday that prosecutors wanted the charge dismissed so they could refile it when the boy was older and pursue case in adult court.

Brewer said Saturday that the deal would resolve the case without it being transferred to adult court, but he declined to provide additional details. Although he is considering the offer, Brewer said he is unsure of his client's ability to understand the proceedings. At least two mental health evaluations are yet to be completed.

The prosecutor explained in his response to Brewer's opposition filing that he wasn't trying to obtain an unfair advantage, but he pressed for the dismissal because the judicial system isn't equipped to deal with an 8-year-old charged with murder.

"It is done to ensure that the juvenile and the two murder victims in this case do not fall through the cracks in the system that might occur if both charges remain in the pending delinquency petition," Candelaria wrote.

Candelaria explained that the boy could be found incompetent to stand trial, and if that happened, the court's options would be limited.

The court would be required to order efforts to restore the boy to competency, but if that couldn't be done within about eight months, the judge would be required by law to dismiss the criminal case and bar it from being refiled.

The court would then be required to initiate civil commitment proceedings, Candelaria wrote. If the boy is found incompetent because of his age, he wouldn't fit the definition of a mentally disordered person and no treatment would be available.

"Such a result denies the victims and public of any sense of justice for these heinous murders," Candelaria wrote. "It also denies the juvenile the rehabilitative services that he apparently needs to both deal with why he was capable of committing these murders and to assist him with the grief and remorse that he is probably feeling."

Police in St. Johns found Romero and Romans shot to death after the boy ran to a neighbor's house on Nov. 5. The boy was questioned after Romans' wife raised suspicions about him the next day, and in a videotape released by prosecutors, he admits pulling the trigger. Both men were shot several times with a .22-caliber rifle.

Romans worked with Romero and rented a room in his home.

Police reports say the boy told a state Child Protective Services worker that his 1,000th spanking would be his last.

The boy is being held in a county juvenile facility, although he was allowed to spend Thanksgiving with his mother.

Brewer said the boy is back in custody. The next court hearing is set for Dec. 8.

So, while they are trying to pin this on an 8 year old boy, the real killer is getting away with it.



Cat

If he did shoot them you wonder if he would of shot the step mother too.She was the last one to spank him.


I think the whole mother angle is weird.  She had just been to visit and was on a plane home.  Haven't heard that she flew back to see what the story was with her son.  Lots of unanswered questions.

You wonder whether she planted the suggestion on the child that he'd committed the deed, thinking that he'd be let off 'cause he was eight?

You wonder whether she planted the suggestion on the child that he'd committed the deed, thinking that he'd be let off 'cause he was eight?


That's what I'm thinking.  Whatever happened, it sounds like this kid never had a chance with this bunch of losers(his parents, friends, and family)

The kid's initial statement was that he found the men shot dead when he got home from school.  They have it all on tape, but the story is so murky.  Whether the kid did it or not, he was certainly in shock.  It's a delicate process trying to get a traumatized eight-year-old to construct a cohesive narrative.  If the kid was "pure evil" Michael Myers style, he wouldn't have changed his story. 


This is often the problem with trying to get any confession/statement from a child.  Just look back at the McMartin Preshool case.  Or the case against Dale Akiki.

But then again, sometimes the charges are correct, and it is just the nature of young children that makes it hard to get a cohesive statement.

And of course, the case now seems to be turning into a case of child abuse.  This is something that they have been keeping very quiet on.  But at the same time, they never denied the possability that that might have been the catalyst.

When I first heard this case, my initial thought was "either the dad and/or his friend did something to that kid".  And it looks like that may very well be exactly what happened.