I few years ago Bill Cosby was criticized for comments he made about black people.

Its a topic too few people are afraid to tackle but I hope after last nights historic vote a change really is gonna come.


1) I hope blacks see that ANYTHING is possible through hard work, dedication and desire.


2) I hope education becomes important again.

In 1957 nine black students had to be escorted by armed guards into the recently desegregated Central High School in Little Rock AK.
The Little Rock Nine took their education seriously and went on to do something with their lives.   

HBO aired a documentary last year Little Rock Central: 50 years later.  The school is still segregated. There were only three black students in honors classes.   The remedial classes were full of black kids.  The classes that had both black and white kids showed the kids sitting on opposite sides of the room.  An image that appalled on of the women who was part of the Little Rock Nine.


3) I hope, with all my fingers crossed, that ebonics finally becomes a dead language and the rest of the nation gets to a place where they are no longer shocked to find that most of are indeed articulate.


4) I hope people, all people, take responsibility for their lives and stop blaming society for everything that's wrong. 

Yes you're poor and it sucks but don't wallow just act. Stop waiting for people to give you stuff and go out and get it yourself. Earn it.
That's a message for all people!


Oprah Winfrey says- she was born a Negro in 1954 Mississippi - everything about her life should have told her she would never have the things she does but she dared to dream and she worked her arse off....and look where she is now!



DARE TO DREAM





 

Brava, my friend. I would applaud you but I already did, too. But I hope that it is NOT just black people but ALL people.



Cat

Brava, my friend. I would applaud you but I already did, too. But I hope that it is NOT just black people but ALL people.



Cat



true...that's why I qualified that last one for all people

I should've included that in the topic too tho.

I few years ago Bill Cosby was criticized for comments he made about black people.

Its a topic too few people are afraid to tackle but I hope after last nights historic vote a change really is gonna come.


1) I hope blacks see that ANYTHING is possible through hard work, dedication and desire.


2) I hope education becomes important again.

In 1957 nine black students had to be escorted by armed guards into the recently desegregated Central High School in Little Rock AK.
The Little Rock Nine took their education seriously and went on to do something with their lives.   

HBO aired a documentary last year Little Rock Central: 50 years later.  The school is still segregated. There were only three black students in honors classes.   The remedial classes were full of black kids.  The classes that had both black and white kids showed the kids sitting on opposite sides of the room.  An image that appalled on of the women who was part of the Little Rock Nine.


3) I hope, with all my fingers crossed, that ebonics finally becomes a dead language and the rest of the nation gets to a place where they are no longer shocked to find that most of are indeed articulate.


4) I hope people, all people, take responsibility for their lives and stop blaming society for everything that's wrong. 

Yes you're poor and it sucks but don't wallow just act. Stop waiting for people to give you stuff and go out and get it yourself. Earn it.
That's a message for all people!


Oprah Winfrey says- she was born a Negro in 1954 Mississippi - everything about her life should have told her she would never have the things she does but she dared to dream and she worked her arse off....and look where she is now!



DARE TO DREAM





 









So true, Karma.

So true, Karma.


thanks. 


I wish everyone would watch that Little Rock doc. It totally sickened me and made me feel so sad for our youth.

Does Barack know about you?  You need to go into politics.  I was listening to the radio and they were discussing how conservative the African American community is.  I was thinking that was an over generalization.  You take people on an individual basis.

Does Barack know about you?  You need to go into politics.  I was listening to the radio and they were discussing how conservative the African American community is.  I was thinking that was an over generalization.  You take people on an individual basis.



*aw shucks*



I know I hate how so few can be used as a  representation for so many

I'll bet Cosby voted for McCain!
::)

thanks. 


I wish everyone would watch that Little Rock doc. It totally sickened me and made me feel so sad for our youth.




Hey...you're starting to make sense!  What gives?  Have things changed that much alreadsy over there?  ;)

I few years ago Bill Cosby was criticized for comments he made about black people.

Its a topic too few people are afraid to tackle but I hope after last nights historic vote a change really is gonna come.


1) I hope blacks see that ANYTHING is possible through hard work, dedication and desire.


2) I hope education becomes important again.

In 1957 nine black students had to be escorted by armed guards into the recently desegregated Central High School in Little Rock AK.
The Little Rock Nine took their education seriously and went on to do something with their lives.   

HBO aired a documentary last year Little Rock Central: 50 years later.  The school is still segregated. There were only three black students in honors classes.   The remedial classes were full of black kids.  The classes that had both black and white kids showed the kids sitting on opposite sides of the room.  An image that appalled on of the women who was part of the Little Rock Nine.


3) I hope, with all my fingers crossed, that ebonics finally becomes a dead language and the rest of the nation gets to a place where they are no longer shocked to find that most of are indeed articulate.


4) I hope people, all people, take responsibility for their lives and stop blaming society for everything that's wrong. 

Yes you're poor and it sucks but don't wallow just act. Stop waiting for people to give you stuff and go out and get it yourself. Earn it.
That's a message for all people!


Oprah Winfrey says- she was born a Negro in 1954 Mississippi - everything about her life should have told her she would never have the things she does but she dared to dream and she worked her arse off....and look where she is now!



DARE TO DREAM





 








I hope you are right my friend :) Karma to you.
Just a note on Ebonics,this is being discussed at Rochester,NY schools to become a language course.

I hope you are right my friend :) Karma to you.
Just a note on Ebonics,this is being discussed at Rochester,NY schools to become a language course.


There goes that mushroom cloud in my head again!  I really thought ebonics died a long time ago.  Funny how people are demanding that immigrants learn english before they even show up, but want to take a ethnic specific dialect and cater to it.

DARE TO DREAM

If now Rubin Carter were still alive , he could see the black man the people came to enhance for a dream he'd just done, and from his prison cell,  Carter could see  the man who's expected to come to change the world.

  Maybe to the black folks he was just a crazy dreamer. 
Now no one doubts that he grew up the bigger.

  If you're black you ought to be proud on the street, 
needless to say Obama just jumped up to the heap.

Hopefully, my friend Carter, cards weren't marked in advance. 
The poll was a big-circus, where  he had his chance.

How can the life of such a man be so important abroad your land?
When I look at him he doesn't seem the same 
it feels from now on it starts a new game
These are words from many a man in Spain.

That's the story of an hurricane, 
a black man who's not insane
for daring a dream of World's change


I'm so hopeful for the future, you should know the whole world keeps an eye on States, and it seems the step is done, I wish and hope in the right direction and once for all.

Good for you Snozzberries, and thanks again, I just read it "Little Rock Nine". I think all of you have lived bad times in America, and things need changing sooner than later.

The dice's thrown, good luck to everyone.

There goes that mushroom cloud in my head again!  I really thought ebonics died a long time ago.  Funny how people are demanding that immigrants learn english before they even show up, but want to take a ethnic specific dialect and cater to it.

I found these articles on it
http://www.weneedtostop.com/2008/01/this-is-old-news-but.html
http://albanysinsanity.wnymedia.net/blogs/2007/03/16/rochester-city-school-district-newsletter-supports-ebonics/

My only gripe with this is that the right loves to use "personal responsibility" as a club to blame the victims.  As Martin said "It's fine to ask people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but it's a cruel joke to ask a shoeless man to do so." (or words to that effect).

Peace

There goes that mushroom cloud in my head again!  I really thought ebonics died a long time ago.  Funny how people are demanding that immigrants learn english before they even show up, but want to take a ethnic specific dialect and cater to it.



If you watched as much daytime TV as I do... specifically those "court" shows you'd see Ebonics is alive and thriving in the US...and unfortunately for people who don't have any exposure to other black people....this is all they see. Now they'll see the truth.

I found these articles on it
http://www.weneedtostop.com/2008/01/this-is-old-news-but.html
http://albanysinsanity.wnymedia.net/blogs/2007/03/16/rochester-city-school-district-newsletter-supports-ebonics/


thanks ninny.

My only gripe with this is that the right loves to use "personal responsibility" as a club to blame the victims.  As Martin said "It's fine to ask people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but it's a cruel joke to ask a shoeless man to do so." (or words to that effect).

Peace


this too is true. 

but too many people seem to think they've lost the battle when they haven't even begun to start fighting the war.

I'm not saying everyone can rise up an achieve something when they live in poverty but I think more can than already do.

thanks ninny.



Your welcome :)

There goes that mushroom cloud in my head again!  I really thought ebonics died a long time ago.  Funny how people are demanding that immigrants learn english before they even show up, but want to take a ethnic specific dialect and cater to it.


Rochester, eh?  I just watched a documentary about some old farmers way out in Madison county (north-central New York.  They were speaking something one might call "honkonics"!
:P

The support for "ebonics" seems now to come from the far left at the universities and that's where it will stay. 

What I despised about Cosby's comments was the classism.  White kids from the posh suburbs have names like "Piper," "Dakota," and "Leaf," and they talk pretty funny too--but they seem to get into college OK!
::)

I know i'm not american so maybe it's why i don't get it, but isn't racial dilemma really more about money than anything else? Aren't poor black people in the same boat as the poor whites? Do black kids drop out of school cause they're black or cause they're poor and need to start working to help out at home?

Where i come from,some are white,some are black,most like myself are mixed but what is common to us all is how difficult our day to day struggle is,simply because we don't have the same opportunities as the wealthy,and even the ones who make it,who go to college and succeed still had to juggle work and school making it so much harder than for those with money.

It's nice to think that all is possible with perseverance and hard work but the real world proves the opposite every single day.

If you watched as much daytime TV as I do... specifically those "court" shows you'd see Ebonics is alive and thriving in the US...and unfortunately for people who don't have any exposure to other black people....this is all they see. Now they'll see the truth.



And it's usually younger women standing up for their "thug" man. ::)  It makes me sad to see. 

(yeah, I watch alot of those shows, too.)

I know i'm not american so maybe it's why i don't get it, but isn't racial dilemma really more about money than anything else? Aren't poor black people in the same boat as the poor whites? Do black kids drop out of school cause they're black or cause they're poor and need to start working to help out at home?

Where i come from,some are white,some are black,most like myself are mixed but what is common to us all is how difficult our day to day struggle is,simply because we don't have the same opportunities as the wealthy,and even the ones who make it,who go to college and succeed still had to juggle work and school making it so much harder than for those with money.

It's nice to think that all is possible with perseverance and hard work but the real world proves the opposite every single day.


The problem over here is that the poor blacks and poor whites are in the same boat, but don't want to admit that they are the same.  It is easier to get by being white in terms of opportunity, but it has gotten harder and harder for everyone. If they would put aside the petty squabbling and work together things would be better for both groups.

but too many people seem to think they've lost the battle when they haven't even begun to start fighting the war.







what I actually meant to type is-  people claim to have lost the war without ever arming themselves for battle.

The problem over here is that the poor blacks and poor whites are in the same boat, but don't want to admit that they are the same.  It is easier to get by being white in terms of opportunity, but it has gotten harder and harder for everyone. If they would put aside the petty squabbling and work together things would be better for both groups.



exactly.



Historically being poor has always been bad but better to be poor and white than poor and any other race in this country.

My only gripe with this is that the right loves to use "personal responsibility" as a club to blame the victims.  As Martin said "It's fine to ask people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but it's a cruel joke to ask a shoeless man to do so." (or words to that effect).

Peace


But when Obama asks for people to use "personal responsibility" it is not a club? ???

DARE TO DREAM

If now Rubin Carter were still alive , he could see the black man the people came to enhance for a dream he'd just done, and from his prison cell,  Carter could see  the man who's expected to come to change the world.


Well if Rubin Carter is reading this thread,
He must be shocked  to hear that he's dead!

Rubin is indeed still alive and wit us.

Well if Rubin Carter is reading this thread,
He must be shocked  to hear that he's dead!

Rubin is indeed still alive and wit us.



I was wondering about that but didn't have time to look it up myself ... thx

But when Obama asks for people to use "personal responsibility" it is not a club? ???


Rightly or wrongly, people perceive themes in rhetoric  Obama is persceived as saying personal responsibility and we'll help you out.  The right-wing is perceived as saying, personal responsibility and you go f**k yourself.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/pfiade.gif

http://www.wallstats.com/blog/389-years-ago/

389 years of progress

^It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings,  but I think I hear her clearing her throat  ;)

The problem over here is that the poor blacks and poor whites are in the same boat, but don't want to admit that they are the same.  It is easier to get by being white in terms of opportunity, but it has gotten harder and harder for everyone. If they would put aside the petty squabbling and work together things would be better for both groups.


Amen to that sister.

http://www.wallstats.com/blog/389-years-ago/

389 years of progress



They forgot that in 1777 the Vermont Constitution was the first to outlaw slavery.




Cat

Well if Rubin Carter is reading this thread,
He must be shocked  to hear that he's dead!

Rubin is indeed still alive and wit us.



I know I must and do apologize
for suggesting Carter were died
maybe I ain't got the suitable size
to be here,but I'm glad he's alive .

Sorry if I bothered you LyricBoy
I think sometimes I should  be a bit coy
before posting a message like a toy.

Best wishes for you and your new master and commander
from Spain ( a little country with a lot of languages)

Paco Gómez

The problem over here is that the poor blacks and poor whites are in the same boat, but don't want to admit that they are the same.  It is easier to get by being white in terms of opportunity, but it has gotten harder and harder for everyone. If they would put aside the petty squabbling and work together things would be better for both groups.


I think one of the major issues is the "group" problem. I'm always surprised by how segregated different races are in America. Blacks and whites rarely mix it seems,when i lived in the US i had someone telling me that i shouldn't tell anyone that my father is black because most people see mixed couples as an oddity and 'cause my black heritage is almost unnoticeable physically i could pass for a white girl. At the same time the black community wouldn't see me as an equal.
I tell you i just don't get it,in countries like ours who are so full of people with so many different backgrounds for me what it makes sense is living in a huge melting pot. In my family you'll find blonds with tanned skin,blacks with green eyes and freckled faces. I'm always hearing about how many beautiful people are from Brazil, that is the secret...our ancestors didn't care about race so a true miscegenation happened.

I think one of the major issues is the "group" problem. I'm always surprised by how segregated different races are in America. Blacks and whites rarely mix it seems,when i lived in the US i had someone telling me that i shouldn't tell anyone that my father is black because most people see mixed couples as an oddity and 'cause my black heritage is almost unnoticeable physically i could pass for a white girl. At the same time the black community wouldn't see me as an equal.
I tell you i just don't get it,in countries like ours who are so full of people with so many different backgrounds for me what it makes sense is living in a huge melting pot. In my family you'll find blonds with tanned skin,blacks with green eyes and freckled faces. I'm always hearing about how many beautiful people are from Brazil, that is the secret...our ancestors didn't care about race so a true miscegenation happened.


I don't know about that.  Yes, it is better there than it is here, better meaning not as stratified, but there are issues for the darker colored peoples, the darker the skin the deeper the issues. It is much more subtle, but it is there.  True miscegenation, no.

I don't know about that.  Yes, it is better there than it is here, better meaning not as stratified, but there are issues for the darker colored peoples, the darker the skin the deeper the issues. It is much more subtle, but it is there.  True miscegenation, no.


Yes of course there are issues. But i really don't know any other place where miscegenation was more common than here. Like i said before the problems here are more about wealth distribution than race.

The thing about Ebonics (and every other dialect stereotypical of certain races/classes/etc.) is that it's used to get a different point across than if one were to just use Standard American English. Although there are many people who don't know the SAE, and they really should, the others use Ebonics when they want to appear tough or communicate with other friends. Though it shouldn't be this way, if a nerdy white kid were to go up to a group of ghettofied people and say something like "Howdy," he'd, uh... get beat up.

Um... I'm too tired to really be articulate, but I hope that made sense.

The thing about Ebonics (and every other dialect stereotypical of certain races/classes/etc.) is that it's used to get a different point across than if one were to just use Standard American English. Although there are many people who don't know the SAE, and they really should, the others use Ebonics when they want to appear tough or communicate with other friends. Though it shouldn't be this way, if a nerdy white kid were to go up to a group of ghettofied people and say something like "Howdy," he'd, uh... get beat up.

Um... I'm too tired to really be articulate, but I hope that made sense.


Yes, but that doesn't mean that it should ever be used in schools, ever.  If a child speaks incorrectly, and it is incorrect, his/her speech should be corrected.  The use of "ebonics" will play a part in denying entry into the upper echelon schools and careers. For a teacher to go to a class to learn "ebonics" and then to go to a classroom and use it as a teaching tool doesn't help the student in any way.

The thing about Ebonics (and every other dialect stereotypical of certain races/classes/etc.) is that it's used to get a different point across than if one were to just use Standard American English. Although there are many people who don't know the SAE, and they really should, the others use Ebonics when they want to appear tough or communicate with other friends. Though it shouldn't be this way, if a nerdy white kid were to go up to a group of ghettofied people and say something like "Howdy," he'd, uh... get beat up.

Um... I'm too tired to really be articulate, but I hope that made sense.




My father slips into it when he gets around certain friends from back in the day. I always hated that... we would be having a nice conversation then he'd get a phone call and start talking jive (as it was called in the 70s) and then turn back and talk "normal" to me.

He didn't admit this directly but I think he didn't want his friends to think he had assimilated - my father was born a black man in the ghettos of Washington DC in 1939 but "got out" by joining the military. in the late 50s




Yes, but that doesn't mean that it should ever be used in schools, ever.  If a child speaks incorrectly, and it is incorrect, his/her speech should be corrected.  The use of "ebonics" will play a part in denying entry into the upper echelon schools and careers. For a teacher to go to a class to learn "ebonics" and then to go to a classroom and use it as a teaching tool doesn't help the student in any way.

My father slips into it when he gets around certain friends from back in the day. I always hated that... we would be having a nice conversation then he'd get a phone call and start talking jive (as it was called in the 70s) and then turn back and talk "normal" to me.

He didn't admit this directly but I think he didn't want his friends to think he had assimilated - my father was born a black man in the ghettos of Washington DC in 1939 but "got out" by joining the military. in the late 50s






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-xHPU6NulM

;D ;D ;D ;D



Cat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-xHPU6NulM

;D ;D ;D ;D



Cat



Mrs Cleaver  I barely recognize you.  ;D

  Yay black people..!

;D I love that movie.  That scene cracks me up every time.

It's about time we switched affirmative action from being about race to about class.

It's about time we switched affirmative action from being about race to about class.


Totally agree, but first you have to convince the poor whites and poor minorities that they really are more the same than they are different.  Not an easy job as long as they are herded into segragated enclaves, which is one of the reasons segregated enclaves exist.

Totally agree, but first you have to convince the poor whites and poor minorities that they really are more the same than they are different.  Not an easy job as long as they are herded into segragated enclaves, which is one of the reasons segregated enclaves exist.


It's called divide and conquer

It's called divide and conquer


Good points by both you and Danoota.  +1

Breaking news from the Obama win!  See link below:

http://thetravisty.com/Chappelles_Show/wmv/Black_Reparations.htm

I think one of the major issues is the "group" problem. I'm always surprised by how segregated different races are in America. Blacks and whites rarely mix it seems,when i lived in the US i had someone telling me that i shouldn't tell anyone that my father is black because most people see mixed couples as an oddity and 'cause my black heritage is almost unnoticeable physically i could pass for a white girl. At the same time the black community wouldn't see me as an equal.
I tell you i just don't get it,in countries like ours who are so full of people with so many different backgrounds for me what it makes sense is living in a huge melting pot. In my family you'll find blonds with tanned skin,blacks with green eyes and freckled faces. I'm always hearing about how many beautiful people are from Brazil, that is the secret...our ancestors didn't care about race so a true miscegenation happened.


I know what you mean.  OK, so I am white.  We have this new lady who works with me and she is Black.  A few weeks ago she was laughing at me and said "You know, Lyric Boy, my boyfriend was talking sh*t about you last night".

I asked her "What about?" and she said "well, the BF is always talking sh*t.  He was asking me about people I work with and I mentioned Lyric Boy.  Then he said 'Oh yeah, he is one of the Center Township Lyric Boys'" and then she laughed, "You know what I mean?".

She lives in what I guess you would call the Hood (probably 100% black), of course no way that anybody in the Hood would know ol' Lyric Boy (who lives in like a 95% white area).

So I asked her "Well, do you know Joe X and Jane Y?".  And she said "oh yeah, they are good freinds with my boyfriend.".   I told her "When my grandmother died, Mrs. X was the very first person to come over to our house and she took care of us that day while my Mum was messed up."  Then I asked her about quite a few other cats in the Hood.  So she asked me "Lyric Boy, what are you trying to tell me?". ???

I said... "That I am one of the Center Township Lyric Boys.  My family has been friends with folks in your neighborhood for the last 50 years or so.  Ask around."  She was stunned.  The next day she told me she checked me out and she was amazed.

Funny... if I were not a white guy she would have no problem believing her boyfriend.  We all assume too much just because of skin color.   :-\\

I know what you mean.  OK, so I am white.  We have this new lady who works with me and she is Black.  A few weeks ago she was laughing at me and said "You know, Lyric Boy, my boyfriend was talking sh*t about you last night".

I asked her "What about?" and she said "well, the BF is always talking sh*t.  He was asking me about people I work with and I mentioned Lyric Boy.  Then he said 'Oh yeah, he is one of the Center Township Lyric Boys'" and then she laughed, "You know what I mean?".

She lives in what I guess you would call the Hood (probably 100% black), of course no way that anybody in the Hood would know ol' Lyric Boy (who lives in like a 95% white area).

So I asked her "Well, do you know Joe X and Jane Y?".  And she said "oh yeah, they are good freinds with my boyfriend.".   I told her "When my grandmother died, Mrs. X was the very first person to come over to our house and she took care of us that day while my Mum was messed up."  Then I asked her about quite a few other cats in the Hood.  So she asked me "Lyric Boy, what are you trying to tell me?". ???

I said... "That I am one of the Center Township Lyric Boys.  My family has been friends with folks in your neighborhood for the last 50 years or so.  Ask around."  She was stunned.  The next day she told me she checked me out and she was amazed.

Funny... if I were not a white guy she would have no problem believing her boyfriend.  We all assume too much just because of skin color.   :-\\




true....




and cool that they call you Lyric Boy at work too  ;)

true....




and cool that they call you Lyric Boy at work too  ;)





Yes, I try to preserve my anonymity in all walks of life.  ;D

Yes, I try to preserve my anonymity in all walks of life.   ;D


Are you Lyric Boy on your tax forms?
:P

I few years ago Bill Cosby was criticized for comments he made about black people.

Its a topic too few people are afraid to tackle but I hope after last nights historic vote a change really is gonna come.

1) I hope blacks see that ANYTHING is possible through hard work, dedication and desire.

2) I hope education becomes important again.

In 1957 nine black students had to be escorted by armed guards into the recently desegregated Central High School in Little Rock AK.
The Little Rock Nine took their education seriously and went on to do something with their lives.   

HBO aired a documentary last year Little Rock Central: 50 years later.  The school is still segregated. There were only three black students in honors classes.   The remedial classes were full of black kids.  The classes that had both black and white kids showed the kids sitting on opposite sides of the room.  An image that appalled on of the women who was part of the Little Rock Nine.

3) I hope, with all my fingers crossed, that ebonics finally becomes a dead language and the rest of the nation gets to a place where they are no longer shocked to find that most of are indeed articulate.

4) I hope people, all people, take responsibility for their lives and stop blaming society for everything that's wrong. 

Yes you're poor and it sucks but don't wallow just act. Stop waiting for people to give you stuff and go out and get it yourself. Earn it.
That's a message for all people!

Oprah Winfrey says- she was born a Negro in 1954 Mississippi - everything about her life should have told her she would never have the things she does but she dared to dream and she worked her arse off....and look where she is now!

DARE TO DREAM


As an African-American woman in her 50s, I for one did not criticize Bill Cosby for his comments.  I agreed with many of them.  However, Cosby can't be the only voice speaking in, for, or to the Afr-Am community.  As human beings, we shouldn't force ourselves to be monolithic; there are many of us with many messages.  Also, as someone else said, there's a big difference between an Afr-Am from the ghetto who made it big to use the "bootstraps" argument, and a white racist rightist who'd rather suppress your vote than win it using the "bootstraps" argument.

Now

1) With the Obama victory, I felt the Bush cloud of oppression rising and I thought, "Oops, I'd better get off my duff and go find that better-paying job, and clean up my mess!"  Maybe an Obama victory will cause employers to take a more favorable look at qualified or talented black candidates--or could it do a backlash and do the opposite?  Y'know, after columnist Stanley Crouch appeared on Oprah last year about the need for blacks to rise up and do, I e-mailed Crouch at least twice about how to get this done.  He never responded.

2)  I'm totally with you there!  I'm appalled that for decades, even centuries, we blacks struggled and died for the right to an education.  And now ghetto toughs are believing that an educated black is a "wannabe white"!  I find this sickening.  BTW, teachers run rampant through my family.  I'm a college tutor myself.  However, I wonder why is it that a woman like me with an MA has been making only four figures for years?  Well...it is an MA in English-Creative Writing.  And most colleges these days have most classes taught by part-time adjuncts rather than full-time professors.  This cost-cutting, profit-first attitude in the workplace is killing us all!

3) Ebonics will never die, as won't most other strains of ethnic dialect.  However, all--or at least, most--Americans need to master Standard American English for the marketplace, as well as any other language or dialect they may speak at home or in the neighborhood.  Remember, though, that unlike most immigrants, Africans--like many Native Americans--had their original language stripped away from them when they came to these shores.  That's why we have Ebonics as opposed to a genuine African language.  BTW, occasionally I'll say things like "Say what?" or "I gots to go", but that's not my usual way of talking.

4)  People need to take responsibility for themselves, but society must also take responsibility for its people.  This goes beyond race; this is basic human decency.  Even Jesus hinted at this when he said to the Pharisees, the "uptight upright" of his time, "You lay heavy burdens upon men, but don't lift a finger to help them."  In today's America, he might say, "You put high prices on rent, gas, and food, but you won't pay decent wages, or give reasonable job security, so that people can pay their bills!"

Decades ago, it was unthinkable that so many workers could have full-time jobs and still be in poverty.  I'm appalled at today's marketplace mantra: Squeeze more work from fewer workers for less pay.  How did they ever expect the economy to survive if the very richest hoarded so much money that the rest of the people would drown in debt? 

Yes, I'm poor and it sucks and I haven't given up.  However, intelligent as I am, I'm not shrewd enough to figure out how to survive on my own in this dismal marketplace.  I've written a screenplay but I don't know the best way to get it produced, and I don't know the "right people" (yet).  I don't know if I have the strength to work my arse off, although I certainly do work.  Meanwhile, my sister is in the hospital with her third bout of cancer and she might die this time.  I wonder if the Bush regime and its poor stance toward health care may have helped to do her in.  She has quite a story and I wanted to interview her and write a book, but we never got it together.  Her family was homeless for a while, yet one of her daughters won a New York Times scholarship and is now at a top private college!  If my sister dies, my remaining siblings and I will have to consolidate our messy households and help raise the remaning younger children.

We have our major flaws, our family, but we're educated, and we have hope.  But the screws have tightened, and yes racism still gets in the way--perhaps sometimes fatally.

One more thing: when Obama won, I wondered if the Crips and the Bloods would decide to call it a day and disband, or redirect their organizations to some more positive goals.

Comments welcome!

You sure said a mouthful there, Melanie!  I agree entirely.  The joke in the '90s was "Bill Clinton's created 22 million new jobs and I've got three of them!"  Something like that. 

I continue to caution Obama enthusiasts (I'm one myself) to see his election as the end of the beginning not the beginning of the end.  The same power structure is still intact and Obama must answer to it. 

Dr. Cosby has bugged the crap out of me since 1984!  His comedy albums and Fat Albert were one thing, but the Cosby Show was pedantic and preachy!  It was the "Father Knows Best" of my generation!
::)

As an African-American woman in her 50s, I for one did not criticize Bill Cosby for his comments.  I agreed with many of them.  However, Cosby can't be the only voice speaking in, for, or to the Afr-Am community.  As human beings, we shouldn't force ourselves to be monolithic; there are many of us with many messages.  Also, as someone else said, there's a big difference between an Afr-Am from the ghetto who made it big to use the "bootstraps" argument, and a white racist rightist who'd rather suppress your vote than win it using the "bootstraps" argument.

Now

1) With the Obama victory, I felt the Bush cloud of oppression rising and I thought, "Oops, I'd better get off my duff and go find that better-paying job, and clean up my mess!"  Maybe an Obama victory will cause employers to take a more favorable look at qualified or talented black candidates--or could it do a backlash and do the opposite?  Y'know, after columnist Stanley Crouch appeared on Oprah last year about the need for blacks to rise up and do, I e-mailed Crouch at least twice about how to get this done.  He never responded.





When I said that just aa a generalization...obviously there will always be exceptions but I hate that idea of sitting around and waiting for something to come you.  Obviously we aren't all going to run around getting mansions and spending like Oprah but my mom has a friend whose daughter is on welfare. she has 3 kids and each of those kids get aid for ADD. She brings in 3000 a month (I just made that up but she brings in a decent figure) has never held a job and doesn't bother to send her kids to school. The kids are shoplifting and vandalizing and on the fast track to follow in her shoe steps.  My mother's friend has a son who is 49 years old he is severely mentally retarded and my mother's friend only gets a few hundred dollars from welfare and cannot get a job (like she wants to do) or her funding will be cut.  The daughter could work but shes too busy with the drugs... I just get tired of people working the system when there are people out there who truly need the help.

But please never read my posts and assume I mean all because there are a lot of hard working folks out there who are barely scraping by but at least they are working/trying not sitting on their arses waiting for something good.




2)  I'm totally with you there!  I'm appalled that for decades, even centuries, we blacks struggled and died for the right to an education.  And now ghetto toughs are believing that an educated black is a "wannabe white"!  I find this sickening.  BTW, teachers run rampant through my family.  I'm a college tutor myself.  However, I wonder why is it that a woman like me with an MA has been making only four figures for years?  Well...it is an MA in English-Creative Writing.  And most colleges these days have most classes taught by part-time adjuncts rather than full-time professors.  This cost-cutting, profit-first attitude in the workplace is killing us all!


EDUCATORS NEED TO BE PAID LIKE BUSINESS MEN!  Its a tough job and I have respect for anyone who does it....especially those who do it well.





3) Ebonics will never die, as won't most other strains of ethnic dialect.  However, all--or at least, most--Americans need to master Standard American English for the marketplace, as well as any other language or dialect they may speak at home or in the neighborhood.  Remember, though, that unlike most immigrants, Africans--like many Native Americans--had their original language stripped away from them when they came to these shores.  That's why we have Ebonics as opposed to a genuine African language.  BTW, occasionally I'll say things like "Say what?" or "I gots to go", but that's not my usual way of talking.




I hear ya.... I have even caught myself using the phrase "Cuz that's how I roll" but as you said, when out in world English speaking American should be able to speak standardized English.  Slipping in slang every now and again is quite different from sound completely inarticulate.  And when on national TV black people should be required to speak "proper" english just to confuse people in the midwest and mess with there preconceived notions  ;D


We'll call it the Oprah rule or something  ;)



4)  People need to take responsibility for themselves, but society must also take responsibility for its people.  This goes beyond race; this is basic human decency.  Even Jesus hinted at this when he said to the Pharisees, the "uptight upright" of his time, "You lay heavy burdens upon men, but don't lift a finger to help them."  In today's America, he might say, "You put high prices on rent, gas, and food, but you won't pay decent wages, or give reasonable job security, so that people can pay their bills!"

Decades ago, it was unthinkable that so many workers could have full-time jobs and still be in poverty.  I'm appalled at today's marketplace mantra: Squeeze more work from fewer workers for less pay.  How did they ever expect the economy to survive if the very richest hoarded so much money that the rest of the people would drown in debt? 


again it was a generalization on my part. you're right with the economy the way it is now it is difficult for people to get by no matter how hard they work.  But this again wasn't really my point. Idea is simple at least try- if you can't make and you need help that's okay there is no shame in it. But don't sit there and adopt a defeatest attitude when you haven't done anything to try and help yourself out.




Yes, I'm poor and it sucks and I haven't given up.  However, intelligent as I am, I'm not shrewd enough to figure out how to survive on my own in this dismal marketplace.  I've written a screenplay but I don't know the best way to get it produced, and I don't know the "right people" (yet).  I don't know if I have the strength to work my arse off, although I certainly do work.  Meanwhile, my sister is in the hospital with her third bout of cancer and she might die this time.  I wonder if the Bush regime and its poor stance toward health care may have helped to do her in.  She has quite a story and I wanted to interview her and write a book, but we never got it together.  Her family was homeless for a while, yet one of her daughters won a New York Times scholarship and is now at a top private college!  If my sister dies, my remaining siblings and I will have to consolidate our messy households and help raise the remaning younger children.



sorry to hear about your sister's battle. That sucks.  Disease and Death are the two great equalizers.



We have our major flaws, our family, but we're educated, and we have hope.  But the screws have tightened, and yes racism still gets in the way--perhaps sometimes fatally.

It will always be there but hopefully it will lessen as we continue forward.



One more thing: when Obama won, I wondered if the Crips and the Bloods would decide to call it a day and disband, or redirect their organizations to some more positive goals.

Doubtful.  :-\\

When I said that just aa a generalization...obviously there will always be exceptions but I hate that idea of sitting around and waiting for something to come you.  Obviously we aren't all going to run around getting mansions and spending like Oprah but my mom has a friend whose daughter is on welfare. she has 3 kids and each of those kids get aid for ADD. She brings in 3000 a month (I just made that up but she brings in a decent figure) has never held a job and doesn't bother to send her kids to school. The kids are shoplifting and vandalizing and on the fast track to follow in her shoe steps.  My mother's friend has a son who is 49 years old he is severely mentally retarded and my mother's friend only gets a few hundred dollars from welfare and cannot get a job (like she wants to do) or her funding will be cut.  The daughter could work but shes too busy with the drugs... I just get tired of people working the system when there are people out there who truly need the help.

But please never read my posts and assume I mean all because there are a lot of hard working folks out there who are barely scraping by but at least they are working/trying not sitting on their arses waiting for something good.

EDUCATORS NEED TO BE PAID LIKE BUSINESS MEN!  Its a tough job and I have respect for anyone who does it....especially those who do it well.

I hear ya.... I have even caught myself using the phrase "Cuz that's how I roll" but as you said, when out in world English speaking American should be able to speak standardized English.  Slipping in slang every now and again is quite different from sound completely inarticulate.  And when on national TV black people should be required to speak "proper" english just to confuse people in the midwest and mess with there preconceived notions  ;D

We'll call it the Oprah rule or something  ;)

again it was a generalization on my part. you're right with the economy the way it is now it is difficult for people to get by no matter how hard they work.  But this again wasn't really my point. Idea is simple at least try- if you can't make and you need help that's okay there is no shame in it. But don't sit there and adopt a defeatest attitude when you haven't done anything to try and help yourself out.

sorry to hear about your sister's battle. That sucks.  Disease and Death are the two great equalizers.

It will always be there but hopefully it will lessen as we continue forward.

Doubtful.  :-\\



Snozberries: thanks for your reply!  I feel supported and empathized with.  :)

you're welcome. and karma to you because its all I have to give right now.  :)

EDUCATORS NEED TO BE PAID LIKE BUSINESS MEN! 


You mean totally trash the joint and get $100 million compensation package on the way out?
:P

You mean totally trash the joint and get $100 million compensation package on the way out?
:P



yep just like that!  ;D

You mean totally trash the joint and get $100 million compensation package on the way out?
:P


And the rest of should also get summer's off from work!  Yeah!

And the rest of should also get summer's off from work!  Yeah!

Teachers don't exactly get summers "off."  Most of them do curriculum work, teach summer courses, review college entrance exams, moonlight on other jobs, and stuff like that. 

Teachers don't exactly get summers "off."  Most of them do curriculum work, teach summer courses, review college entrance exams, moonlight on other jobs, and stuff like that. 



You mean they work?  Like the rest of us?

You mean they work?  Like the rest of us?


Before I retired I often taught a summer course or two, typically read ten or more books in my field, and wrote book reviews that were published in Science & Society (a social science journal), or made trips to the nation  archives.  So yes, educators usually work in the summer, one way or another.  Admittedly, its more relaxed that working for someone else.

You mean they work?  Like the rest of us?

And they don't even get to charge first-class airline tickets to the company or write off a five-martini lunch as a business expense!  I'd sooner be a mendicant friar than a schoolteacher!
:P

EDUCATORS NEED TO BE PAID LIKE BUSINESS MEN! 



You mean totally trash the joint and get $100 million compensation package on the way out? :P


How 'bout this?  Handwavingly, let's assume a government that won't corrupt and maniuplate the cradle-to-grave income-tracking and life-experience-logging system required to implement the following solution.  And the teachers' unions would never stand for it.  With that huge "wouldn't it be nice if" out of the way, let's try this:

I grew up spending around 8 hours a day in classes in government-run schools.  In the early grades, one teacher taught me for each grade.  In the later grades and in postsecondary education, I got between 0.5 and 2 hours per day from a pool of 15-20 teachers/professors. 

All of those teachers/professors were paid by the government or by partially-government-funded educational institutions. They declared that income on their income tax forms, uniquely keyed by some sort of governmental ID number (in the US, the Social Security Number).  Likewise, I have earned a lot of money since then, and my tax payments are keyed to me as a function of my governmental ID number.

Assuming each citizen is assigned a unique ID number at birth, and that "taught_by_SSN_12345678" is a field for every teacher who ever taught me...

1) I made $100K this year.
2) My 1st grade teacher X taught me for 8 hours a day, 160 days (8 months) a year, 160, or 1280 hours.
...
n-2.1) My 12th-grade physics teacher Y taught me for 3 hours a week, or 96 hours a year.
n-2.2) My 12th-grade math teacher Y taught me for 6 hours a week, or 192 hours a year.
...
n-1.1) My fourth-year university calculus teacher Z taught me for 40 hours in my last year as an undergrad.

Total educational experience: (12 years of school * 8 hours a day * 160d/y (8 months/y)) + 4 years (university) * 6 hours/d * 200d/y(10mo)
= 15360 hours of "school" + 4800 hours of "college", = 20000 hours of total education, divided amongst hundreds of teachers.

My first-grade through 6th-grade teachers get to claim 1280 of those hours, just for me showing up.  My Jr. High / High School teachers get different-sized chunks of those hours - the art/English teachers get some of those hours, but the math/science teachers get more of of 'em, because that's where I specialized.  My university professors only get a few hundred hours each, but they're also getting paid bigger bucks (and they have tenure) to do research.

Now - take 1% of my adjusted gross income - and divide it, pro rata among those teachers.  If I'd dropped out at Grade 9 to flip burgers at $5/hour for $10K/year, my grade 1-8 teachers could split $100/year, for a whopping $12.50 each.  If it turns out I made it to the B.Sc. level, and I subsequently earn around $100K/y, my grade 1-8 teachers get $1000/year, or $125 apiece.  My 10-20 high school teachers get $10-50/year each.  My 40-odd university profs get some pizza money, but the teaching thing is more of a side job considering that they're being paid a decent base salary and have access to grant money for their research (which is the real reason they get up in the morning).

The grade-school teacher whose students go on to become a generation of burger-flippers get a 20*12.50 = 250/year bonus for every class of burgerflippers they graduate.  Ditto the physics teacher, the math teacher, the art teacher, and the English teacher.  But the teacher that manages to inspire one student per year - be it in math, science, English, or sports - gets a cut of those earnings.

Call it profit-sharing.  Produce a net drain on the Treasury, pay a couple of bucks a year for every failure you graduate.  Produce a citizen who can actually produce something of value, and you get a piece of the action. 

I hate taxation like I hate the plague.  But even I wouldn't begrudge my teachers their due.  My parents are nice folks, but they sucked at calculus.  If it weren't for my teachers, I'd be eating rat-onna-stick now.  If I see so far, it is only because I stand on the shoulders of giants; my teachers busted their posteriors trying to drum that stuf finto me, and the ones who succeeded earned a cut of my future earnings.  Ditto the coaches and music teachers who knew how to recognize a jock or an artsie with potential when they saw one.

No Child Left Behind means No Child Gets Ahead. 

^ Now that's what I call "Atlas Drugged"!

C'mon, you're trying to reduce humanity to a mathematical equasion, a list of assets and liabilities.  This is mile marker 1 to the gas chambers!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/vogel.gif