Congress said "NO" to this and now IMO, Bush may be the worst president in our lifetime.

And I'm in my mid-20's!

And for history, this will probably be the top-three worst presidents....

1-James Buchanan
2-Warren G. Harding
3-George W. Bush

how is #3 not #1?

how is #3 not #1?


Let me rephrase that...it probably will be like that, if not a three-way-tie with Nixon and Hoover in the top-10.

You know I'm going to disagree with you on Buchanan of course.

I might not agree with them on much, but I certainly agree with the true conservative Republicans who voted against this collosal giveaway to Wall Street wastrels. 

I'm no free market fundamentalist, but a lot of the hypocrites in Congress who voted for the bailout would claim to be such.  I respect principle and consistency.  Free market fundamentals means:

Government doesn't meddle in the marketplace when the market wins.
Government doesn't meddle in the marketplace when the market loses.

That's the Libertarian way.

On the other hand, for fascists such as Paulson and Boehner, the principle is:

Privatize the profit.
Socialize the loss.

Much to my chagrin, more Democrats than Republicans voted in favor of the $700B bailout, but I shouldn't be surprised.  I think a lot of them, such as Frank and Dodd, earnestly believe the bailout would protect the American people from coming economic woes. 

First, I don't believe if the U.S. taxpayers hand over $700B to a bunch of fatcat bankers said bankers would use it to help out the proverbial "little guy."  The best predictor of the future is the past.  Wall Street doesn't give a crap about us and never will.

Furthermore, I have so often heard smug conservatives say, "Freedom is the freedom to fail" when justifying rampant poverty among the general public.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.   Daddy gives Junior a Porsche for his 16th birthday.  Junior gets loaded and wraps the car around a telephone poll.  Which is would best serve to teach Junior a lesson:
a. Daddy buys Junior another new Porsche the next day.
b. Daddy tells Junior he's lucky to be alive and go get his own money if he wants a Porsche.
If we bail out Wall Street, we are teaching lesson A.  Banks can behave as recklessly as they want because they know the taxpayers will be there to bail them out.
If we reject the bailout, it's lesson B.  Maybe the free market could use some austerity and accept some government supervision.

Of course, the banks have the ability to make the people suffer.  Count the ways.  It could get scary for a while.  In the end, though, the banks can only bust the people's chops for so long before the people start busting back.

It took only 40 years of post-WWII prosperity for the public to forget what happens when you let the free markets run roughshod over everybody.  By 1982 the Great Depression was an era of the past; something that would never happen again.  Thanks to liberal reforms, such as the FDIC, we won't suffer as severely as we did after the 1929 crash, but rude awakening of this year seems to be jarring the collective memory.

Excellent post, Max.  Basically, the best thing we can hope for with this bailout is to have Obama's accountability clauses included in the bill.

I recently watched a speech of Obama's where he was outlining what needs to be added to ensure that the money we're putting into this is returned to us eventually via corporate profits.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ctgw9VyV_0

I've yet to hear McCain discuss this nuance of the bailout.

Personally, I have to say that I'd rather we go all the way to nationalization rather than half@$$ this thing.  If we can't let the market clear itself, then nationalization of Wall Street should be the alternative.

Excellent post, Max.  Basically, the best thing we can hope for with this bailout is to have Obama's accountability clauses included in the bill.

I recently watched a speech of Obama's where he was outlining what needs to be added to ensure that the money we're putting into this is returned to us eventually via corporate profits.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ctgw9VyV_0

I've yet to hear McCain discuss this nuance of the bailout.

Personally, I have to say that I'd rather we go all the way to nationalization rather than half@$$ this thing.  If we can't let the market clear itself, then nationalization of Wall Street should be the alternative.


McBush can't discuss the bill, he didn't even read the 3 page version, and he knows nothing about economics anyway.  What needs to happen is for congress to pass a surcharge tax on the rich as Bernie Sanders and my rep, Peter Welch have proposed, and use that to bail out the banks. 

McBush can't discuss the bill, he didn't even read the 3 page version, and he knows nothing about economics anyway.  What needs to happen is for congress to pass a surcharge tax on the rich as Bernie Sanders and my rep, Peter Welch have proposed, and use that to bail out the banks. 


Might I add, Moderate Presidents (like Bush) aren't considered the best presidents in their time nor our lifetime.

Might I add, Moderate Presidents (like Bush) aren't considered the best presidents in their time nor our lifetime.


Calling Bush a moderate is a stretch, and he hasn't been President for 16 years anyway.

Calling Bush a moderate is a stretch, and he hasn't been President for 16 years anyway.


No, not yet!
:o

No, not yet!
:o


Calling this Bush a moderate would be a flagrant misuse of the English language

Calling this Bush a moderate would be a flagrant misuse of the English language


You could say he's moderately intelligent...compared to Sarah Palin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/tard.gif

You could say he's moderately intelligent...compared to Sarah Palin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/tard.gif


Or moderately conservative compared to Adolph Hitler.

Or moderately conservative compared to Adolph Hitler.


I'm not a die-hard fan of Bush (and I wasn't the last two years either), but now the Senate is trying to get that bill passed.

BTW-Here's Bill....http://www.postdiluvian.org/~gilly/Schoolhouse_Rock/pix/bill.jpg

I'm not a die-hard fan of Bush (and I wasn't the last two years either), but now the Senate is trying to get that bill passed.

BTW-Here's Bill....http://www.postdiluvian.org/~gilly/Schoolhouse_Rock/pix/bill.jpg


Maybe they should change the word "bill" to "buck"; politicians are really good at passing that.

Ant

Or moderately conservative compared to Adolph Hitler.


Ooh Ja! Dat's a good one, eh?
;D

The Senate has said 'Yes' to the Bill!

And that's where Obama, Kerry, and Hillary are in.

Also...Voinavich said 'Yes' to the issue.

The Senate has said 'Yes' to the Bill!

And that's where Obama, Kerry, and Hillary are in.

Also...Voinavich said 'Yes' to the issue.


Have you noticed all the pork they added to the bill to get it passed?

Have you noticed all the pork they added to the bill to get it passed?


Yea, there is some pork, but they also added some good stuff.  Not the surtax that Bernie Sanders proposed though, too bad.

Have you noticed all the pork they added to the bill to get it passed?


I like pork. I couldn't eat it when I was a kid, but I'd like to have a barrel of pork! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/oink2.gif

I like pork. I couldn't eat it when I was a kid, but I'd like to have a barrel of pork! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/oink2.gif


OK, but you're gonna pay dearly for that bacon. http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/icon_biggrin.gif

OK, but you're gonna pay dearly for that bacon. http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/icon_biggrin.gif


Speaking of paying for sheesh, is buying stuff on the internet worth it?

Speaking of paying for sheesh, is buying stuff on the internet worth it?


Depends on what and where.  Can't beat the convenience though, Fed EX and UPS are making a killing off of me.

Congress said "NO" to this and now IMO, Bush may be the worst president in our lifetime.

And I'm in my mid-20's!

And for history, this will probably be the top-three worst presidents....

1-James Buchanan
2-Warren G. Harding
3-George W. Bush


  Woody Wilson would like a word with you...

Call for Herbert Hoover,

OK, but you're gonna pay dearly for that bacon. http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/icon_biggrin.gif


http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/stove_ownership.png


Daddy gives Junior a Porsche for his 16th birthday.  Junior gets loaded and wraps the car around a telephone poll.  Which is would best serve to teach Junior a lesson:
a. Daddy buys Junior another new Porsche the next day.
b. Daddy tells Junior he's lucky to be alive and go get his own money if he wants a Porsche.
If we bail out Wall Street, we are teaching lesson A.  Banks can behave as recklessly as they want because they know the taxpayers will be there to bail them out.
If we reject the bailout, it's lesson B.  Maybe the free market could use some austerity and accept some government supervision.


To carry the analogy further...

c. Unfortunately, Daddy was in the passenger seat at the time, has two broken legs, and can no longer work (and pay the mortgage, and buy food, etc) unless Junior drives him to the office. The bailout is effectively buying Junior a minivan with a big wheelchair ramp on the side.

It's a moot point at this point -- two weeks of delay have eliminated any element of surprise the program might have had, and the Eurozone summit meetings appear to be in disarray.  What was once a long shot is now too little, too late. 

Well Hoover had a fashion sence when it came to women's clothing!
Best ever bush poster



I've seen that Bush is compared to Hitler, but if that's the case...why are there still Jews and No Concentration Camps.

Well...you may hate me for posting this...http://lh4.ggpht.com/Jerome.Gouvernel/SFVA5ibgLuI/AAAAAAAAEXk/bmglB-H9UXk/080405-obama-stalin3.jpg

I'm STILL voting for him though!

They bawt it! Oh my, my, I do say they're gonna get it up the wazoo now!

--Tennessee Williams, for the grave