well, practice makes perfect.

where's agoraphobic wacko? i miss him already.  :\'(


Maybe he's afraid of wide open forums.

Maybe he's afraid of wide open forums.
i'm fed up, i'm gonna go over to the kung fu thread in a minute. and then i'll probably be two-wheelin', and then i'll pass out on my keyboard. i'm so sick of politics, dag.

i just can't believe people are still peddlin' that "oh, you wanna spend tax dollars on something other than bombs? then you're a socialist!" claptrap. i'm gonna get upset.

eva's lookin' good though, huh?

I think we should spend money on bombs, but we should probably drop rep/senator/prez salaries just a tad so that we can also pay for better roads and bridges and schools :D

Palin's hawter than Eva Braun.  I don't think she would kill Jews either ;)

I think we should spend money on bombs, but we should probably drop rep/senator/prez salaries just a tad so that we can also pay for better roads and bridges and schools :D

Palin's hawter than Eva Braun.  I don't think she would kill Jews either ;)
c'mon! let me falsely associate sarah palin with eva braun! it's fun!

i understand that we have to spend money on bombs. i think eisenhower had it figured, that every nation has to have a military, but you have to understand that every dollar you spend on it is a dollar you can't spend somewhere else. (ever hear the bomber-to-school speech he gave? he was a republican who was invaluable to winning world war II, but if he ran for office today, he'd be drummed out of the race as a fag liberal socialist. you can't love schools more than you love bombers!)

it's a balance, every year you have to say, what are the threats? what should we spend on our military to meet those threats? and what can we spare from the american people and the domestic agenda?

unfortunately, recently military spending became a business of its own and now, for example, we spend 200 billion dollars on the F-22 fighter plane, when can you name me the last time the US got involved in a bona fide fighter plane dogfight?

sorry, that stuff is a total misallocation of resources. i wanna see this country defended but creating massive military spending contracts so private companies can feed at the trough has nothing to do with national security. it has to do with making big, big bucks. and i tell ya, i worked in this industry before, i give the american people, oh, two, three more years to figure this stuff out, and then i'm gonna get back into working in defense and start going through you people's pockets myself. there is SO much money to be made in this, and the only thing that's stopping me is my conscience. but if you guys can't figure it out, you guys deserve to get fleeced.  taxpayer dollars are being POURED into the "defense" industry, and most of them turn into sportscars, hummers, huge houses and sweet vacations for the people who work for these companies. trust me, i've seen it first hand. it's a racket. and i've worked for a couple of companies that are in on it, and i think i could get myself dialed in to the money spigot that i've seen working first hand. it's just that it makes me sick to my stomach to see that machine in action. seriously, though, if the american people can't figure it out in 2008, i'm just gonna start cashing in too. if you vote republican in 2008, you don't deserve money. or a job. but i can figure out how to get in with one of the companies that are robbing you blind. i've worked for them already.

next thing you know, your dinner will be on my table. you know what? vote mccain. fudge it, i've changed my mind, i'll vote for him myself. might help your money get to me faster.

I don't have the time at the moment to go line by line on the economic aspect of your post, but if I "gloss over" something, I'll elaborate later tonight.Did I ever say I wanted the taxes increased on the working class? The current tax rate is about as fair as its gonna get. Bush's spending policies(which are actually liberal in nature and why the dem congress loves it) is whats played a huge role in our economic stagnation, NOT his tax policy. You are obviously intelligent, and its amazing that you think increasing spending is gonna lead us to salvation.

I'll comment on the military aspect and also Chucky's post later this evening.


Speaking of spending...  The Republicans spent more than the Democrats have in a long time when they ran both houses and had the presidency between 2000 and 2006.

I don't mind tax cuts, but it would appear Ron Paul is one of the only Republicans that stands for cutting government spending.  The rest of the GOP seems to be controlled by the military industrial complex.

Speaking of spending...  The Republicans spent more than the Democrats have in a long time when they ran both houses and had the presidency between 2000 and 2006.

I don't mind tax cuts, but it would appear Ron Paul is one of the only Republicans that stands for cutting government spending.  The rest of the GOP seems to be controlled by the military industrial complex.

Uh yuh, you got that right.

Uh yuh, you got that right.
dude, quit you bitchin' and get a job in the defense industry. you'll have a backyard pool in a year. i'm telling you i've seen it happen, it's sweet. they're handin' out hummers and escalades, and gas prices can go as high as they like, it ain't no thang.

i remember this one chick i used to work with, she had a mercedes convertible, real sporty, i felt like i was on the autoban when she gave me a ride home one day. and she just worked in document production, same sheesh i do! this other cat, it was like an 80,000 dollar convertible, i think a lexus? and he was just a middle manager. the money these cats are getting, you wouldn't believe it. and you guys are paying. it's hilarious.

they got taste though, i tell ya. they're spending your money really well, they're like james bond over here. you gotta get inside the beltway, and you'll see where the money gets spent that you think is being allocated to defend your family. it's going into some seriously sweet sheesh for the people i work for. they live large on your money.

dude, quit you bitchin' and get a job in the defense industry. you'll have a backyard pool in a year. i'm telling you i've seen it happen, it's sweet. they're handin' out hummers and escalades, and gas prices can go as high as they like, it ain't no thang.

Hey, guy, I'm gettin' a backyard pool.  When they decommission Vermont Yankee they promised me one of the cooling cisterns.  I figger I can scrub it out with some Borax and invite the folks over a dip!  If my nieces have babies with three heads I'll tell 'em not to point at me with their nine index fingers!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/alien.gif

Anyway, you don't hand out a hummer....
:-X

Anyway, you don't hand out a hummer....
:-X
;D

you got me there. but seriously, if you saw one tenth of the crap i saw when i was working for the defense department, you'd basically start tossing molotov cocktails.

there's SO much money. SO much taxpayer money, it sprays these cats down like it's coming out of a fire hydrant.

;D

you got me there. but seriously, if you saw one tenth of the crap i saw when i was working for the defense department, you'd basically start tossing molotov cocktails.

there's SO much money. SO much taxpayer money, it sprays these cats down like it's coming out of a fire hydrant.


Yep, I was apart of it.  Especially if you have a clearance.  High demand and top dollar for those.  Of course, I got out of that stuff.  I make more than half less than I was making, but im happy with my new job. 

Yep, I was apart of it.  Especially if you have a clearance.  High demand and top dollar for those.  Of course, I got out of that stuff.  I make more than half less than I was making, but im happy with my new job. 
yup, good point, i'm working in education and very happy now, and i could never in a million years get clearance so my threat of fleecing the sheep is totally hollow but i wasn't kidding when i said these cats working for defense contractors are living like international spies. it's funny all the middle-americans who think their tax dollars are going to protect them when really it's subsidizing the midlife crises of a handful of inside-the-beltway fatcats. i dont know where you live but here in northern virginia, right near washington, the game is PHAT. PHAT with taxpayer money.

;D

you got me there. but seriously, if you saw one tenth of the crap i saw when i was working for the defense department, you'd basically start tossing molotov cocktails.

there's SO much money. SO much taxpayer money, it sprays these cats down like it's coming out of a fire hydrant.

Or you could invest in the prison industry.  See, if you object to the geyser of taxpayer dollars jizzing all over the M-I complex and refuse to pay your taxes...they'll send you to the house of corrections bought and paid for by...you guessed it MORE taxpayer dollars!  That's why we liberals are such a glum bunch, we keep passing on a win-win situation!
:P


yup, good point, i'm working in education and very happy now, and i could never in a million years get clearance so my threat of fleecing the sheep is totally hollow but i wasn't kidding when i said these cats working for defense contractors are living like international spies. it's funny all the middle-americans who think their tax dollars are going to protect them when really it's subsidizing the midlife crises of a handful of inside-the-beltway fatcats. i dont know where you live but here in northern virginia, right near washington, the game is PHAT. PHAT with taxpayer money.


If I get while the military-industrial getting's good, maybe later I'll be able to buy a red Ferrari and grow a long gray ponytail mullet and go pick up some 19-year-old chicks down the discos!  When yer hot, yer hot!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/iroc.gif

yup, good point, i'm working in education and very happy now, and i could never in a million years get clearance so my threat of fleecing the sheep is totally hollow but i wasn't kidding when i said these cats working for defense contractors are living like international spies. it's funny all the middle-americans who think their tax dollars are going to protect them when really it's subsidizing the midlife crises of a handful of inside-the-beltway fatcats. i dont know where you live but here in northern virginia, right near washington, the game is PHAT. PHAT with taxpayer money.


I lived in that area for 3 years.  First in Alexandria and then in Fairfax.  Worked in Fairfax, Reston, Crystal City, and Bolling AFB.  I know exactly what you mean.  I am back in Utah now.  Spend the majority of my weekends with *Ash* and my brother.  LoL. 

I did make alot, but it was nowhere near the amount others were making.  Some where just punk ass kids straight out of college or the military too. 

Yep, thats where tax payer money goes.  Alot of wasted money too.

yup, good point, i'm working in education and very happy now, and i could never in a million years get clearance so my threat of fleecing the sheep is totally hollow but i wasn't kidding when i said these cats working for defense contractors are living like international spies. it's funny all the middle-americans who think their tax dollars are going to protect them when really it's subsidizing the midlife crises of a handful of inside-the-beltway fatcats. i dont know where you live but here in northern virginia, right near washington, the game is PHAT. PHAT with taxpayer money.


Yep, proof positive that the Republicans don't stand for small government anymore than the Democrats do.

Granted, I'd rather big government at least equal social programs than lining the wallets of contractors and defense employees.

That's hilarious. I'm an independent that has and will vote for either side. I guess because I'm able to think for myself makes you think I'm a republican. Funny.
I knew you were gonna say something like that. You're incapable of debating these topics so issue a cop out when someone arrives on the scene who actually knows what they're talking about. Says much more about you than it does about me.

People like Chucky and Tia(and others) I respect. While I may disagree with most of what they say, at least they use intelligence while debating and actually believe in what they are saying. I hope you follow through on being "through" with me, because I'm certainly not gonna continue debating someone who doesn't even comprehend the basic issues at hand.




This was directed at Cat, and I find it highly objectionable.  This guy thinks he knows something, but all he does is repeat the Repug's talking points and then throw insults.  Cat, along with others have made it very clear what most of us see as the issues, which, simply put, all revolve around for more years of Bush.  But to be more specific I'll list a few.
Continuation of the class war against the working and middle classes.
Continuation of a stupid and unnecessary war.
Continuation of or dysfunctional medical system.
A heightened assault on the right to chose.
Continued reliance on fossil fuels and subsidies for big oil.
Continued disregard for the environment.
And most important, it looks like a continuation of the assault on the Constitution.
But I guess Agro-wacko just isn't reading this stuff 

This guy thinks he knows something, but all he does is repeat the Repug's talking points
that's how that works. if one doesn't know what one is talking about, one makes up for it by really acting like one does.

dude, quit you bitchin' and get a job in the defense industry. you'll have a backyard pool in a year. i'm telling you i've seen it happen, it's sweet. they're handin' out hummers and escalades, and gas prices can go as high as they like, it ain't no thang.


Oh yeah, the Defense Dept. has all this $$$$$$$ for contractors but not enough for the men & women in uniform or those who USED to wear the uniform.  ::)



Cat

the line about the $250,000-and-up income earners getting a hike in their social security taxes is kinda amusing to me. do these people really need social security? wasn't that originally intended as a safety net?




Social Security is taxed only on the first $90,000 a year.  Once a person has made more than that he/she doesn't have to pay in anymore.  >:(

Sarah Palin as sports babe,  You guys are going to want to party with this  ;D

http://www.deadspin.com/5045284/you-can-take-our-sarah-palin-videos-but-youll-never-take-our-freedom

Social Security is taxed only on the first $90,000 a year.  Once a person has made more than that he/she doesn't have to pay in anymore.   >:(


Which is part of why SS is going bankrupt...  Granted, the odds of anyone actually removing the SS base wage cap are pretty low, but Obama might manage it.  It would be about the only hope SS has of staying solvent.

Sarah Palin as sports babe,  You guys are going to want to party with this  ;D

http://www.deadspin.com/5045284/you-can-take-our-sarah-palin-videos-but-youll-never-take-our-freedom


Is it just me, or does the rural Alaskan accent sort of sound like a retarded version of a Canadian accent?

Sarah Palin as sports babe,  You guys are going to want to party with this  ;D

http://www.deadspin.com/5045284/you-can-take-our-sarah-palin-videos-but-youll-never-take-our-freedom



I find it very interesting that the only personal comments she made were negative ones. So now, she is a pro at making nasty remarks as we all saw on Wednesday.



Cat

Which is part of why SS is going bankrupt...  Granted, the odds of anyone actually removing the SS base wage cap are pretty low, but Obama might manage it.  It would be about the only hope SS has of staying solvent.


Social Security won't stay solvent because people don't die as early as they used to.  The blessing and the curse of higher life expectancies...

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/09/new-gop-spin-palins-not-ready.html

Todd Harris, a GOP strategist who is close to the McCain campaign, says Palin won't be available to the press for about two weeks. His defense? She might make "a mistake."

basically, the GOP thinks she's not even qualified to be a candidate... let alone VP or *gasp* president.

^ Lame.

^ Lame.


you mean me or them?

you mean me or them?


Them.  Sorry.

For a number of reasons, they are lame.  Firstly for picking a very unqualified candidate, secondly for hiding her, and thirdly for giving a really BAD reason for hiding her away.  Bad Republicans!

Palin's Speech Didn't Move Undecided or Democratic Women Voters

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/palinsspeechdidntmoveundecidedordemocraticwomenvoters

ouch....

Sarah Palin has an interesting profile...

Social Security won't stay solvent because people don't die as early as they used to.  The blessing and the curse of higher life expectancies...


It also has to do with the lack of appreciation of funds.  SS funds don't gain in value enough to keep up with inflation, much less even match what the private sector could increase them to.

So, you're right...  We'd have to privatize SS in addition to removing the base wage cap.

So, basically, it would be better to work towards phasing it out.

It also has to do with the lack of appreciation of funds.  SS funds don't gain in value enough to keep up with inflation, much less even match what the private sector could increase them to.

So, you're right...  We'd have to privatize SS in addition to removing the base wage cap.

So, basically, it would be better to work towards phasing it out.


Can't phase it out, the AARP would freak out.  Social Security is only meant as a minimum floor of income though, trying to survive on just that alone as your income is generally not a good idea...

Can't phase it out, the AARP would freak out.  Social Security is only meant as a minimum floor of income though, trying to survive on just that alone as your income is generally not a good idea...


Well, I agree that the AARP would freak out, but perhaps, there's some way we can disintegrate the AARP.  I just haven't figured out how yet.

Well, I agree that the AARP would freak out, but perhaps, there's some way we can disintegrate the AARP.  I just haven't figured out how yet.


You can wait for all of them to die and then hope that the next wave of old people are slightly less selfish ;)

Is it just me, or does the rural Alaskan accent sort of sound like a retarded version of a Canadian accent?

It's funny, I was just thinking Palin sounds kinda like Kristin Rudrud's Jean Lundegaard character from "Fargo."
That was a heavy Minnesooootaah accent.

Palin actually grew up in Idaho.

It also has to do with the lack of appreciation of funds.  SS funds don't gain in value enough to keep up with inflation, much less even match what the private sector could increase them to.

So, you're right...  We'd have to privatize SS in addition to removing the base wage cap.

So, basically, it would be better to work towards phasing it out.


The SS trust fund is empty, well, not really, it's filled with IOU's from the gov't, which has been raiding it since day one.  Eliminating the cap would go far to extend its solvency though, while privatizing it would kill the system, which is what the Repugs want.  Rather than phasing it out it should be strengthened.  It is the basic safety net for all of us.  It is true that you can't live on it but it does provide a base income.

The SS trust fund is empty, well, not really, it's filled with IOU's from the gov't, which has been raiding it since day one. 
I thought the raiding really began under Reagan as a fig leaf for the failed Chicago Boys policies.

The SS trust fund is empty, well, not really, it's filled with IOU's from the gov't, which has been raiding it since day one.  Eliminating the cap would go far to extend its solvency though, while privatizing it would kill the system, which is what the Repugs want.  Rather than phasing it out it should be strengthened.  It is the basic safety net for all of us.  It is true that you can't live on it but it does provide a base income.


Well, I would argue that socialized healthcare would be a better alternative.  That would cover half of SS's actual purpose.  The retirement part seems rather misplaced IMHO.  I think retirement should be a private responsibility, but I see healthcare as a public one.

i should probably just cut and paste from previous posts. you keep repeating yourself, which is forcing me to repeat myself.
Its funny how you end your posts with that. Like you're saying something groundbreaking while everything else is a broken record.


i'm not advocating increased spending. i'm advocating shifting the tax burden to alleviate the lopsided pro-wealthy tax policies set up under bush 43, reducing wasteful spending on boondoogle and poorly managed military projects that don't help us, and directing more money to domestic spending that will end up benefiting the country financially in the long run by stabilizing our infrastructure, bringing manufacturing and jobs back to america, and transitioning to alternative energies. i'm saying if we're gonna pay taxes, let's see something for it. let's quit pouring it into contracts with substandard accountability, where it just disappears, or turning it into 2000-pound terrorist-making bombs and blowing it up halfway around the world. our public funds could benefit most of us, not just the top 1% of the top 1%.How will these jobs be created when the tax burden shifts? Do you realize what will happen when the "rich" start paying high taxes? I'll tell you one thing it wont do......bring manufacturing jobs back to america.

I agree with you 100000000000000% on cutting spending. It has to be done no matter who wins.






Attack personally to distract from the issues. And BTW, there is a rule on this board about personal attacks.

Cat
Yeah I know, and I'd love for you to point me in the direction of any personal attack I've posted here. You can dig through all of my posts and you'll never find one.



um, you're claiming to be an independent but posting strictly right wing sources.  If all you read are right wing pundits, you're not really evaluating both sides.
All of those links were not "right wing sources". Or is the Huffington Post a right wing website now?




where's agoraphobic wacko? i miss him already.  :\'(
I thought you didn't like "repeating yourself"?

You're better at flip flopping than Obama. :P






i just can't believe people are still peddlin' that "oh, you wanna spend tax dollars on something other than bombs? then you're a socialist!" claptrap. i'm gonna get upset.
No one in this thread has ever said that(unless I missed it).




Speaking of spending...  The Republicans spent more than the Democrats have in a long time when they ran both houses and had the presidency between 2000 and 2006.
Would you like a list of the democrats who voted for that each year? If you're not gonna vote for someone because they increased spending the past eight years, you'll be voting for Nader.



This guy thinks he knows something, but all he does is repeat the Repug's talking points
and then you come back with "talking points"(and another "talking point" about Social Security a page later in this thread).

That debate tactic gets old.




http://www.jedreport.com/2008/09/new-gop-spin-palins-not-ready.html

Todd Harris, a GOP strategist who is close to the McCain campaign, says Palin won't be available to the press for about two weeks. His defense? She might make "a mistake."

basically, the GOP thinks she's not even qualified to be a candidate... let alone VP or *gasp* president.
I do find that a bit troubling. Does make you wonder what they are worried about. She could handle everything that's already known about her, so there's a possibility there's something we haven't seen yet.

I know some people like polls. Here's one....


WASHINGTON — The Republican National Convention has given John McCain and his party a significant boost, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken over the weekend shows, as running mate Sarah Palin helps close an "enthusiasm gap" that has dogged the GOP all year.

McCain leads Democrat Barack Obama by 50%-46% among registered voters, the Republican's biggest advantage since January and a turnaround from the USA TODAY poll taken just before the convention opened in St. Paul. Then, he lagged by 7 percentage points.

The convention bounce has helped not only McCain but also attitudes toward Republican congressional candidates and the GOP in general.

"The Republicans had a very successful convention and, at least initially, the selection of Sarah Palin has made a big difference," says political scientist Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia. "He's in a far better position than his people imagined he would be in at this point."

However, in an analysis of the impact of political conventions since 1960, Sabato concluded that post-convention polls signal the election's outcome only about half the time. "You could flip a coin and be about as predictive," he says. "It is really surprising how quickly convention memories fade."

McCain has narrowed Obama's wide advantage on handling the economy, by far the electorate's top issue. Before the GOP convention, Obama was favored by 19 points; now he's favored by 3.

The Republican's ties to President Bush remains a vulnerability. In the poll, 63% say they are concerned he would pursue policies too similar to those of the current president. Bush's approval rating is 33%.

In the new poll, taken Friday through Sunday, McCain leads Obama by 54%-44% among those seen as most likely to vote. The survey of 1,022 adults, including 959 registered voters, has a margin of error of +/— 3 points for both samples.

Among the findings:

• Before the convention, Republicans by 47%-39% were less enthusiastic than usual about voting. Now, they are more enthusiastic by 60%-24%, a sweeping change that narrows a key Democratic advantage. Democrats report being more enthusiastic by 67%-19%.

• Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a national unknown before McCain chose her for the ticket 10 days ago, draws a strong reaction from voters on both sides. Now, 29% say she makes them more likely to vote for McCain, 21% less likely.

Obama's choice of Delaware Sen. Joe Biden as running mate made 14% more likely to vote for the Democrat, 7% less likely.

• McCain's acceptance speech Thursday received lower ratings than the one Obama gave a week earlier: 15% called McCain's speech "excellent" compared with 35% for Obama.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-07-poll_N.htm

Sarah Palin an 'unknown'?

Who knew Barack before all this started???

(Besides I'm a fan of her brother Michael from Monty Python!)

The "enthusiasm gap"?  All I hear is a bunch of fascist prop and witless Americans falling for it like the sheeple they are!
::)

It also has to do with the lack of appreciation of funds.  SS funds don't gain in value enough to keep up with inflation, much less even match what the private sector could increase them to.

So, you're right...  We'd have to privatize SS in addition to removing the base wage cap.

So, basically, it would be better to work towards phasing it out.


Point of information:

1) There are no "SS funds".  None.  They're basically non-negotiable T-bills.  Can't be traded on the open market, so if the Fed decides to default on 'em, nobody gets hurt except the people dumb enough to rely on SS for retirement income.  They really do exist in a file cabinet in the bowels of Washington. 

2) Since there are no freely tradable investments in the SS surplus, they neither gain nor lose in value.  See #1.  The US goverment pays a rate of interest to the not-quite-T-Bills.  This rate will continue to be paid on any not-quite-a-T-Bill in the filing cabinet (read: paid out of the tax receipts of US taxpayers, or the government will run a deficit), but that money goes straight out the door into paying current beneficiaries.

3) Yes, we'd have to privatize it in order to save it. 

4) If it were privatized, I'd be fine with removing the wage cap.  Provided that "privatized" meant that the people whose assets were being diverted into this hypothetical privatized sysem were permitted to invest those monies in any asset they saw fit.

5) Yes, #4 is a "forced savings" programme.  But at least the individual investor decides how to allocate his/her forced savings, which permits the mechanisms of the free market to work.  Anything less -- any system in which The Gubmint(tm) can tell me how to invest -- is subject to the same moral hazard as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

We all remember how Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association), as chartered by Congress during FDR's New Deal scam, and its "competitor" Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation) as chartered by Congress to provide "competition" to Fannie during LBJ's Great Society scam... we all remember how they worked out, right?

Much like SS, Fannie and Freddie worked out just fine for the first few decades.  Provided plum patronage jobs to people who'd just keep loaning out the cash to buy worthless securities from banks smart (and evil :) enough to realize that Fannie and Freddie would buy anything they'd hawk.

(I have no position in FNM nor FRE, praise Dobbs, but I still regret that I didn't have the testicular fortitude to short 'em back in 2007.  Shorting the GSEs was the easiest money made over the past 12 (even 6!) months, and the profits on such a trade, even on my meager account, would have more than made up for my share of the 3-5 trillion in debt that, as a taxpaying schlub, I've just had dumped onto my books as of Sunday afternoon.)

6) Hell, yes, we'd be best off phasing it out.  Neither the Elephant nor the Jackass figureheads are willing to forego the AARP's votes, however, so here we are.  Boned again!


Social Security is taxed only on the first $90,000 a year.


...today.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2559/openwideun3.jpg

Open wide!  Obama's coming!

I'm glad he's smart enough to promise that he won't jack up the taxes until $250K/year (although I can't figure out whether that $250K figure applies to single-filers, or if it applies to "families" of people married-filing-jointly, which would mean individuals feel the full wrath of the taxhammer at around the $125K level), but I'll only believe his $250K figure when I see it in his legislation in 2009. 

Point of information:

1) There are no "SS funds".  None.  They're basically non-negotiable T-bills.  Can't be traded on the open market, so if the Fed decides to default on 'em, nobody gets hurt except the people dumb enough to rely on SS for retirement income.  They really do exist in a file cabinet in the bowels of Washington. 

2) Since there are no freely tradable investments in the SS surplus, they neither gain nor lose in value.  See #1.  The US goverment pays a rate of interest to the not-quite-T-Bills.  This rate will continue to be paid on any not-quite-a-T-Bill in the filing cabinet (read: paid out of the tax receipts of US taxpayers, or the government will run a deficit), but that money goes straight out the door into paying current beneficiaries.

3) Yes, we'd have to privatize it in order to save it. 

4) If it were privatized, I'd be fine with removing the wage cap.  Provided that "privatized" meant that the people whose assets were being diverted into this hypothetical privatized sysem were permitted to invest those monies in any asset they saw fit.

5) Yes, #4 is a "forced savings" programme.  But at least the individual investor decides how to allocate his/her forced savings, which permits the mechanisms of the free market to work.  Anything less -- any system in which The Gubmint(tm) can tell me how to invest -- is subject to the same moral hazard as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

We all remember how Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association), as chartered by Congress during FDR's New Deal scam, and its "competitor" Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation) as chartered by Congress to provide "competition" to Fannie during LBJ's Great Society scam... we all remember how they worked out, right?

Much like SS, Fannie and Freddie worked out just fine for the first few decades.  Provided plum patronage jobs to people who'd just keep loaning out the cash to buy worthless securities from banks smart (and evil :) enough to realize that Fannie and Freddie would buy anything they'd hawk.

(I have no position in FNM nor FRE, praise Dobbs, but I still regret that I didn't have the testicular fortitude to short 'em back in 2007.  Shorting the GSEs was the easiest money made over the past 12 (even 6!) months, and the profits on such a trade, even on my meager account, would have more than made up for my share of the 3-5 trillion in debt that, as a taxpaying schlub, I've just had dumped onto my books as of Sunday afternoon.)

6) Hell, yes, we'd be best off phasing it out.  Neither the Elephant nor the Jackass figureheads are willing to forego the AARP's votes, however, so here we are.  Boned again!

...today.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2559/openwideun3.jpg

Open wide!  Obama's coming!

I'm glad he's smart enough to promise that he won't jack up the taxes until $250K/year (although I can't figure out whether that $250K figure applies to single-filers, or if it applies to "families" of people married-filing-jointly, which would mean individuals feel the full wrath of the taxhammer at around the $125K level), but I'll only believe his $250K figure when I see it in his legislation in 2009. 


Hah! I had a good laugh as he chooses such a 'cadaver' for his vp choice...BIDEN???? C'mon..he was among those who had a say in hanging on to Osama when Clinton had a talk about getting him when he had a chance and Biden saw no interest in why we would go out of our way for him...he was in that group...so now when Osama takes off to some remote hardest to get out place and people scream at Bush for NOT getting him..they forget Bidens' role as well!

He's just a professional politician  and now we are introduced to Sarah and look at all the interest in her...WHAT A BREATH OF FRESH AIR! You never saw them go after Biden when the announcement was made! He's ruining it for Obama!

What is Bidens stand on energy-which we need more than anything??? He's in the crew with Pelosi who won't admit how they could have had programs to help the cause!
That's the news I look into.

^ really? you support older-than-moses mccain and you're joking about biden's age? you probably dont want to go there.

anyway, turns out palin is a fundy psycho. yeah, we really need someone like this a heartbeat away from the red button.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM

^ really? you support older-than-moses mccain and you're joking about biden's age? you probably dont want to go there.

anyway, turns out palin is a fundy psycho. yeah, we really need someone like this a heartbeat away from the red button.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM




Scary as hell!

I've decided I really do want a Palin at the helm!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf1y9s73Nos

;D ;D ;D

I know some people like polls. Here's one....




and here's another two

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/mccain_takes_le.html

one shows a small bump... another shows a dead heat with no difference from a week ago.

and next week after things settle down... I wonder how much of that bump remains

after getting beaten up this weekend for not allowing interviews... they're agreeing to let her be interviewed.  By one reporter.  Over the course of a couple days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_el_pr/palin

Gibson seems to be the only non-Fox News reporter allowed to interview McCain lately... so I'm expecting a real softball round here.  Definitely not a live interview.

Well, here is an interesting site. This puts Obama ahead of McCain.


http://www.electoral-vote.com/


Cat

Would you like a list of the democrats who voted for that each year? If you're not gonna vote for someone because they increased spending the past eight years, you'll be voting for Nader.

...or Ron Paul.  Believe me, I've considered it.

Ever since Palin entered the race, it occurred to me that both sides have their inexperienced rock stars.

Both Nader and Paul have more experience, and they have records of standing up more for what I believe in.  Granted, I also disagree with much of what they stand for.

Still, I do find it odd that you call yourself an independent, but you like Palin.  Palin is even further to the right than Obama is to the left.  You must be a very conservative independent, more specifically.  Do you like the Constitution Party?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRnOHsRS48&feature=related


;D ;D ;D ;D


Cat

How will these jobs be created when the tax burden shifts? Do you realize what will happen when the "rich" start paying high taxes? I'll tell you one thing it wont do......bring manufacturing jobs back to america.

Any economist can tell you that cutting taxes further won't either.  Even if we outright eliminated the income tax, certain industries would be outsourced simply because of the differences in labor costs between us and the Third World.  Most manufacturing jobs are simply too unskilled to be expected to stay here.

Both parties spend a lot of time baiting voters with this idea that there's some miracle method to bringing jobs back here, whether it's more tax cuts or raising taxes on the rich, but neither will accomplish this.  The best that can be hoped for is protectionism in certain forms of trade, in order to balance out the protectionism being used against us by our trading partners.

I am an advocate of reciprocal trade, not free trade.  You only open up your markets as much as your partners do.  Obama's trade policies are much closer to this ideal than McCain's, so as a result, McCain would just continue making us more vulnerable to outsourcing through pseudo-free trade.

I do find that a bit troubling. Does make you wonder what they are worried about. She could handle everything that's already known about her, so there's a possibility there's something we haven't seen yet.


The issue is how she's been "handling" what comes her way.  Palin would seem to be a verification that small town politics can be just as nasty as big town ones.  Obama's got his skeletons in his closet, but Palin would appear to have a mass grave of them.

6) Hell, yes, we'd be best off phasing it out.  Neither the Elephant nor the Jackass figureheads are willing to forego the AARP's votes, however, so here we are.  Boned again!

Indeed...  SS is one topic I tend to be conservative on, mostly because I know I'll never see any benefit from it.

In a way i'm glad McCain chose Sarah Palin for vice-presidency. One of my fears was that some democrats would vote McCain because he wasn't a true conservative republican,,this way no liberal in their right mind will vote for a woman who says there are books that should be banned from libraries :o

I also find it funny when the media says that Palin was chosen so that women who are pissed because Clinton wasn't nominated could have a female in office. Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton are as different as oil and vinegar and they never ever mix. It's hilarious that republicans are selling Palin as a "superwoman" when what she represents is everything that stupid men want in a woman and that's it.

In a way i'm glad McCain chose Sarah Palin for vice-presidency. One of my fears was that some democrats would vote McCain because he wasn't a true conservative republican,,this way no liberal in their right mind will vote for a woman who says there are books that should be banned from libraries :o

I also find it funny when the media says that Palin was chosen so that women who are pissed because Clinton wasn't nominated could have a female in office. Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton are as different as oil and vinegar and they never ever mix. It's hilarious that republicans are selling Palin as a "superwoman" when what she represents is everything that stupid men want in a woman and that's it.


Well, the sad thing is...  Some Hillary supporters really are stupid enough and bitter enough to support McCain just because he has a woman on his ticket now.

More than 85 of Hillary's major fundraisers are now switching to McCain's camp.  It's absolutely asinine from a policy viewpoint, considering how Hillary's policies are almost diametrically opposed to the vast majority of McCain's platform and even moreso with Palin's stances.

The only other explanation I have for this is that maybe these supporters weren't actually supporting Hillary for her policies but instead because they figured she'd win the election.

It's hilarious that republicans are selling Palin as a "superwoman" when what she represents is everything that stupid men want in a woman and that's it.

She's a former beauty queen for whom "mom" is the chief identity.  Thus, she is not threatening to male chauvinists--not like Hillary who said 15 years ago, "I'm not going to stay home and bake cookies."
::)


Indeed...  SS is one topic I tend to be conservative on, mostly because I know I'll never see any benefit from it.

That's a telling statement.  If it benefits others, I'm a conservative.  If it benefits me, I'm a liberal!
:P

That's a telling statement.  If it benefits others, I'm a conservative.  If it benefits me, I'm a liberal!
:P


Well, I support welfare even though I know I'll probably never need it.  What I meant with SS is that it will be bankrupt by the time I'm old.

Well, the sad thing is...  Some Hillary supporters really are stupid enough and bitter enough to support McCain just because he has a woman on his ticket now.

More than 85 of Hillary's major fundraisers are now switching to McCain's camp.  It's absolutely asinine from a policy viewpoint, considering how Hillary's policies are almost diametrically opposed to the vast majority of McCain's platform and even moreso with Palin's stances.

The only other explanation I have for this is that maybe these supporters weren't actually supporting Hillary for her policies but instead because they figured she'd win the election.


If you say so it must be true but it's hard for me to believe it. From a male chauvinist point of view i'm sure it makes sense...get a woman in there to make women voters happy. Fortunately it doesn't work like that. Most of Hillary supporters were big on roe vs wade,are they gonna forget that? Plus Palin has a bimbo quality to her that make most women cringe. We'll see in the end but i really doubt McCain/Palin will steal democrat vote.

Well, I support welfare even though I know I'll probably never need it.  What I meant with SS is that it will be bankrupt by the time I'm old.

I know what you mean.  I'm not counting on SS either.


If you say so it must be true but it's hard for me to believe it. From a male chauvinist point of view i'm sure it makes sense...get a woman in there to make women voters happy. Fortunately it doesn't work like that. Most of Hillary supporters were big on roe vs wade,are they gonna forget that? Plus Palin has a bimbo quality to her that make most women cringe. We'll see in the end but i really doubt McCain/Palin will steal democrat vote.


They think you're stupid and the media's egging them on.  It is embarrassing the way the media bigshots seem obligated to treat Palin as a serious politician when we can see she's a few bricks short of a load.  She is NOT the conservative version of Hillary Clinton.
::)

If you say so it must be true but it's hard for me to believe it. From a male chauvinist point of view i'm sure it makes sense...get a woman in there to make women voters happy. Fortunately it doesn't work like that. Most of Hillary supporters were big on roe vs wade,are they gonna forget that? Plus Palin has a bimbo quality to her that make most women cringe. We'll see in the end but i really doubt McCain/Palin will steal democrat vote.



Identity politics in America are rather dysfunctional.  There are plenty of people that will support McCain just because Palin is a woman.  There are plenty of people that will support Obama just because he's black.  By the same token, there are plenty of people that will vote against them for the same reasons.

The average American isn't that bright.  Then again, about half of our country doesn't vote anyway.

Rational people will vote according to policies, but that's not exciting enough for the media to follow.

^ really? you support older-than-moses mccain and you're joking about biden's age? you probably dont want to go there.

anyway, turns out palin is a fundy psycho. yeah, we really need someone like this a heartbeat away from the red button.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM




It's not a knock to his age..it is a knock to his usefulness...he did nothing to influence Clinton to keep Osama when he could of, he didn't feel the need to hang on to him. -Do you recall how he was one of the many who spoke up that we had to take care of Saddam ? A little memory jolt there.

And I guess they brought up how many sessions he missed as well.
Obama did some fine speaking but as I said, to pick a guy who's dead in the water to help him..wrong choice...

She's a former beauty queen for whom "mom" is the chief identity.  Thus, she is not threatening to male chauvinists--not like Hillary who said 15 years ago, "I'm not going to stay home and bake cookies."
::)



What do you mean no threat? Male chauvinists like her?
I thought all around, their view is, if you don't want women in the mix, they should stay home, and from all reports, she is not staying home to bake cookies OR raise the kids it seems?

I have heard some women who feel her duty should be to her family and those are the women who are killing the Obama ticket by going on and on so more women who have jobs WILL
go for McCain and Palin.

It's not a knock to his age..it is a knock to his usefulness...he did nothing to influence Clinton to keep Osama when he could of, he didn't feel the need to hang on to him. -Do you recall how he was one of the many who spoke up that we had to take care of Saddam ? A little memory jolt there.

And I guess they brought up how many sessions he missed as well.
Obama did some fine speaking but as I said, to pick a guy who's dead in the water to help him..wrong choice...


it doesn't really matter who he picked, they'd be doing the same smear stuff on him. i'm so sick of hearing all this, oh, how many votes did he miss, and didn't he flip-flop, and didn't he vote for the war the republicans wanted, thinking bush was telling him the truth? i mean, for flip-flops nobody beats mccain. and he's gonna bodyslam palin in the debates, he's forgotten more about foreign policy than that dingbat, moose-mutilating bikini cheerleader will ever know.

it doesn't really matter who he picked, they'd be doing the same smear stuff on him. i'm so sick of hearing all this, oh, how many votes did he miss, and didn't he flip-flop, and didn't he vote for the war the republicans wanted, thinking bush was telling him the truth? i mean, for flip-flops nobody beats mccain. and he's gonna bodyslam palin in the debates, he's forgotten more about foreign policy than that dingbat, moose-mutilating bikini cheerleader will ever know.


I always have a gnawing feeling at the pit of my stomach saying:
The fix is in!
::)

Still, I do find it odd that you call yourself an independent, but you like Palin.
Well, I am a former republican so I definitely lean right on certain issues. As far as all the various independent parties go, I have trouble taking most of them seriously because some of their views are a bit too far out there for me. Abolishing taxes? public schooling? The CIA? No thanks.


Gallup has been tracking independent voters all year, and this has to be a troubling statistic for Obama:

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8807/gallupqr9.gif

Yes, I'm sure it is...  I find it troubling that both parties rely more on charisma than substance, but I guess that's what it takes to be elected.

I'm guessing you definitely aren't a Libertarian-leaning conservative though.  Palin's social agendas are more invasive than the typical Republican's.

Yes, I'm sure it is...  I find it troubling that both parties rely more on charisma than substance, but I guess that's what it takes to be elected.

I'm guessing you definitely aren't a Libertarian-leaning conservative though.  Palin's social agendas are more invasive than the typical Republican's.

She's on the level of the Wahabist Muslims!
:o

She's on the level of the Wahabist Muslims!
:o


Almost...  The Muslims always manage to out-conservative everyone else though.  The evangelicals haven't quite reached the suicide bombing level.

This bullcrap about the lipstick on a pig comment being sexist is a big stretch by the Republicans.  Kind of funny to see them crying about it being unfair, considering all the stuff they pulled in the 2004 election.  The bickering back and forth may turn off some people to the election, but at least Obama is fighting back. 

This bullcrap about the lipstick on a pig comment being sexist is a big stretch by the Republicans.  Kind of funny to see them crying about it being unfair, considering all the stuff they pulled in the 2004 election.  The bickering back and forth may turn off some people to the election, but at least Obama is fighting back. 



What cracked me up was that McCain said how he is so disappointed that the campaign has become so nasty. I almost chocked when I heard that.

Check this out:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#26649024


The piece you want to hear is at 6:04 so you can fast forward through the video to get to that part.



Cat

As I said on another thread, it had to get nasty because the repugs can't run on the issues, they know it, and they've said it.

So I was thinking of Sarahs kids and it occurred to me that the reason these two NRA hunters named their first son Track was because when you go hunting first you track your prey.  Weird, but conceivable.  Then I realized that if that is true, then the name Trig may have come from trigger, and theat would bring us into the range of somewhat demented.  Bristol? Maybe a night when they had to much of the Harveys Bristol Cream Sherry.  Piper, well I guess they figured they had to pay the piper.  Willow, we will all be weeping willows if she gets in.

I think Sarah was a sportscaster at some point and she was a fan of ESPN, which is located in Bristol (CT?) and hence the name.

So I was thinking of Sarahs kids and it occurred to me that the reason these two NRA hunters named their first son Track was because when you go hunting first you track your prey.  Weird, but conceivable.  Then I realized that if that is true, then the name Trig may have come from trigger, and theat would bring us into the range of somewhat demented.  Bristol? Maybe a night when they had to much of the Harveys Bristol Cream Sherry.  Piper, well I guess they figured they had to pay the piper.  Willow, we will all be weeping willows if she gets in.



Too funny. What I find interesting is that Piper is a character on Charmed-who is a witch and Willow is a character on Buffy who is also a witch. And Sarah is a fundamentalist? Hmmmmm.



Cat

I think Sarah was a sportscaster at some point and she was a fan of ESPN, which is located in Bristol (CT?) and hence the name.


I heard about the ESPN gig, which sounds perfect for her!  I think there's a Bristol Bay near Anchorage or something.

There is a link to a video of her doing a report somewhere on the board.  Its not very interesting.

What cracked me up was that McCain said how he is so disappointed that the campaign has become so nasty. I almost chocked when I heard that.


McCain might be sincere.  He seems rather loopy at this point.

McCain might be sincere.  He seems rather loopy at this point.


Loopy doesn't cover half of it.

If McCain was really smart and really wanted to win this election, he would have chosen Ron Paul for a running mate-but as an Obama supporter, I'm glad he didn't.



Cat


I agree about Ron, but not that one.    :-X


















http://www.artshole.co.uk/arts/artists/Shane%20Wheatcroft/I-want-to-be-Ron-Jeremy.jpg
^

No contest, if you want the female vote !  ::)












:P






:D


;D

There is particularly naughty librarian air hanging about those glasses and upswept hair.... http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/naughty.gif



So ... that's HER .... posting on that 'other' board ... under the name of 'naughtylibrarian' ?    :o    :o    :o


(and I was so sure it was someone else ! ) .     :-X














:P



;D

I agree about Ron, but not that one.    :-X


http://www.artshole.co.uk/arts/artists/Shane%20Wheatcroft/I-want-to-be-Ron-Jeremy.jpg
^

No contest, if you want the female vote !  ::)



Dude, gross!  Maybe the guy had something in 1984, but it's like watching Captain Lou Albano pr0n now!
8-P

Dude, gross!  Maybe the guy had something in 1984, but it's like watching Captain Lou Albono pr0n now!
8-P


Described by some here as resembling a fat hedgehog ! Yeah ... but wouldn't a lot of us guys loved to have had HIS career !  :-X






;D

So I was thinking of Sarahs kids and it occurred to me that the reason these two NRA hunters named their first son Track was because when you go hunting first you track your prey.  Weird, but conceivable. 


isn't that the kid that went into the military to beat a drug dealing charge?

isn't that the kid that went into the military to beat a drug dealing charge?


Track?  Trig?  Speaking of pr0n, her kids have names like gay pr0n stars!
:D

isn't that the kid that went into the military to beat a drug dealing charge?


Is this true?  A new one on me.

Is this true?  A new one on me.


Yeah.  The daughter is pregnant(but then it seems so was mommy when she got married), the son has been in trouble before, the husband got caught cheating during his snowmobile("we call the snow machines") race, the Gov tried to get her sisters ex-husband canned.  Evangelical christian family values?

Yeah.  The daughter is pregnant(but then it seems so was mommy when she got married), the son has been in trouble before, the husband got caught cheating during his snowmobile("we call the snow machines") race, the Gov tried to get her sisters ex-husband canned.  Evangelical christian family values?


What if Biden got caught in a motel room with a cocktail waitress?  You'd never hear the end of it! 

Anyway, the cons are defending the Palins because the daughter's marrying the guy and they're not going on welfare.  See, it's not how you behave, it's how much money you've got to cover your behavior that's the principle. 
::)

Yeah.  The daughter is pregnant(but then it seems so was mommy when she got married), the son has been in trouble before, the husband got caught cheating during his snowmobile("we call the snow machines") race, the Gov tried to get her sisters ex-husband canned.  Evangelical christian family values?


Yep...  as I've mentioned before, social conservatives and religious people in general usually tend to have the biggest skeletons in their closets.

Yep...  as I've mentioned before, social conservatives and religious people in general usually tend to have the biggest skeletons in their closets.


Skeletons in their closets?  They themselves have become a parade of the horribles!  Durn it, we're wrong, but we're stubborn!
::)

OK OK OK  Someone has to ask Palin her views on affirmative action.  First she gets into college with less than steller SATs, now her son-in-law to be(maybe, I mean what are they waiting for?) has dropped out of high school and is working as an apprentice electrician.  I don't know how that happened because every electrician I know had to graduate high school before being accepted into an apprenticeship program. 

OK OK OK  Someone has to ask Palin her views on affirmative action.  First she gets into college with less than steller SATs, now her son-in-law to be(maybe, I mean what are they waiting for?) has dropped out of high school and is working as an apprentice electrician.  I don't know how that happened because every electrician I know had to graduate high school before being accepted into an apprenticeship program. 


To paraphrase Jim (aka Jim aka The Waco Kid):
These are frontiers people, the pioneers, the common clay of the New West...You know, morons!

I mean they could have drafted some egghead out of the University at Fairbanks, but what fun would that be?
???

Why do pretty girls who who ain't terrible bright go so far in life?

The impotent old badger needed a cheerleader--an actual-not-metaphorical-cheerleader for his campaign!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/butter.gif

I thought about something last night when watching the debate-what if McCain doesn't WANT to be prez which is why he is totally blowing his campaign. I said that to Carlos last night and he said he doesn't buy it. I can't understand why else he would totally f**k up this campaign-can he be THAT stupid?  ???



Cat

I thought about something last night when watching the debate-what if McCain doesn't WANT to be prez which is why he is totally blowing his campaign. I said that to Carlos last night and he said he doesn't buy it. I can't understand why else he would totally f**k up this campaign-can he be THAT stupid?  ???



Cat



Maybe he's a double agent / closet Democrat .... and has fooled his party / the nation ....  well he's certainly done a semi -convincing job ?  ???  :-\\


Yes .. WHAT a man ! Falls on his sword, for the nation's greater good !    8)



















:D

Maybe he's a double agent / closet Democrat .... and has fooled his party / the nation ....  well he's certainly done a semi -convincing job ?  ???  :-\\


Yes .. WHAT a man ! Falls on his sword, for the nation's greater good !    8)



















:D



What I was thinking is that he didn't think he would get the nom. When he realized that he was the nom, he thought "Oh s**t, what do I do now? I really don't want the job-I just thought it would be fun to run again."

Well, it is just a theory.


Cat

I thought about something last night when watching the debate-what if McCain doesn't WANT to be prez which is why he is totally blowing his campaign. I said that to Carlos last night and he said he doesn't buy it. I can't understand why else he would totally f**k up this campaign-can he be THAT stupid?  ???



Cat


Now you have entered my realm of cynicism.  The engineering of the office of the Presidency is something that is taken care of behind closed doors, who will win who won't win decided 2 years before it happens, the campaigns engineered to bring about the desired result.  Sometimes there is a snafu, Gore didn't go along with it, alarms sounded, bring in the big guns(Supreme Court) and make the desired result happen. Yes, Cat, welcome to my world. 

Now you have entered my realm of cynicism.  The engineering of the office of the Presidency is something that is taken care of behind closed doors, who will win who won't win decided 2 years before it happens, the campaigns engineered to bring about the desired result.  Sometimes there is a snafu, Gore didn't go along with it, alarms sounded, bring in the big guns(Supreme Court) and make the desired result happen. Yes, Cat, welcome to my world. 



On my recent long haul flight back to Australia ... I decided to tune in to this drama I'd never heard of .. which deals with what you're talking about .......


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1000771/

^

'Recount' ....... starring Kevin Spacey ... putting in a typically powerful performance.

Well ... I was very jet lagged, tired, inebriated .... so ... this HIGHLY detailed movie .... was a bit above my powers of concentration (all the details) ........ and ... not being American ...... however ... I did get the general gist of it ... and for those who like their politics ........ highly recommended !

Here's the 'main review' :



Recount goes over familiar territory, and for some it will be like opening up a wound that's been covered for several years only to find the pus is still fresh and rotten. Whether you're a democrat or republican- for the latter, of course, your man "won" in the end- a lot of the details in the story of the Florida electoral results in the 2000 Presidential election just flat out stink of corruption and mismanagement. It displays a failure on the part of what should be a somewhat reliable process in an already faulty system (i.e. electoral college, besides the point). What lessons can be taken from the Florida story? Pretty much the story, and the film, acts as a referendum on how things can get so (bleeped), on each party side- democrats not strong enough in the fight at crucial beats, republicans acting like bullies- and the only hope is that it never gets this wretched again.

Whatever thoughts on the issues one will have, it's a worthwhile TV movie based just on the cast alone. Director Jay Roach, usually responsible for silly comedies like Austin Powers and Meet the Parents, tackles the drama with a firm hand (if not the sturdiest camera- hand held of course) on his large group of thespians. Kevin Spacey hasn't been this good in years, and Leary is a welcome presence as a Gore campaign member. Also very noteworthy are small parts for John Hurt, Ed Begley Jr, Bruce McGill. But best of all are Laura Dern in a harrowingly funny turn as dumb-bell Katherine Harris and Tom Wilkinson as tough lawyer James Baker, who comes off as icy as one might expect playing a loyal cadre of the Bush family. They make the movie compulsively watchable, even as the details of the case- the dimple chads, the discrimination, the BS protester problem in Miami-Dade, and ultimately the ruling of the supreme court- make one very sick about the madness unraveling.

Ok ok, I have to get this straight.  Todd Palin is a stay at home dad who takes care of the kids while Sarah runs the state.  While taking care of the kids he works away from home weeks at a time in the oil fields and on a fishing boat, and training for his snow machine races.  Now we find that Sarah would take the girls with her while traveling around in her capacity as governor, forcing the hosts to include them in travel plans, and billing it to the state.  Huh? Because stay at home dad wouldn't?  Now in the midst of the worst economic crisis in modern times, when people are worried about eating and heating, Mr. and Mrs Thing get a $150,000 shopping spree at Nieman Marcus, Saks fifth Avenue, and Atelier(where all the well dressed oil field hands go to shop)   ::) . You just can't make this stuff up.

Insane.  I can't even imagine spending $150,000 on clothing.  I have a hard time spending $20 for one item.

Insane.  I can't even imagine spending $150,000 on clothing.  I have a hard time spending $20 for one item.


I have put stuff back I loved, could afford, but wouldn't pay the price they were asking because I would just be one more fool.  Now that they have been outed they said they planned to give the clothes to charity after the campaign.  What?! The local Goodwill drop box?

I have put stuff back I loved, could afford, but wouldn't pay the price they were asking because I would just be one more fool.  Now that they have been outed they said they planned to give the clothes to charity after the campaign.  What?! The local Goodwill drop box?



All those items can go to the the people at AIG on their next getaway.  ::)



Cat

I have put stuff back I loved, could afford, but wouldn't pay the price they were asking because I would just be one more fool.  Now that they have been outed they said they planned to give the clothes to charity after the campaign.  What?! The local Goodwill drop box?


I just don't get that mentality.  You buy something you like, you wear it until it dies, at least that is my way of thinking.  I guess I just wouldn't be a good rich person. ;D

Insane.  I can't even imagine spending $150,000 on clothing.  I have a hard time spending $20 for one item.

I hear ya, sister!


If I shop on 5th Avenue, it ain't gonna be Saks, it's gonna be one of those places in Brooklyn that also sells computers and auto parts!
:-\\


Anyway, who said SHE spent 150K on clothing.  The rich have a great credit card: YOU!
::)

Insane.  I can't even imagine spending $150,000 on clothing.  I have a hard time spending $20 for one item.


You gotta look spiffy when you're talking about Moose hunting. :D

I could use an extra $150K.

I wouldn't know how to spend 150K on clothes...literally!

The Palin family seem to be enjoying themselves out there.

I wouldn't know how to spend 150K on clothes...literally!


I could, but it would include my extend family.  My aunts, 11 cousins and their spouses and children.  Plus my friends family.  Plus lots of warm clothing for the homeless shelter.  I could do it. 

Now Mrs Thing says that the brouhaha over the clothes is driven by sexism.

"That whole thing is just, bad!" she said. "Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are."   ::)

Frugal?  Alrighty then. ::)

Wait, does that make me sexist against women even though I am one? ;)

Frugal?  Alrighty then. ::)

Wait, does that make me sexist against women even though I am one? ;)


Can you say Phyliss Schlafly?....Ann Coulter?

Can you say Phyliss Schlafly?....Ann Coulter?


I try not to pay too much attention to Ann Coulter.  Channels change quick around here when she comes on.  Are they bitching about the money, too?

I try not to pay too much attention to Ann Coulter.  Channels change quick around here when she comes on.  Are they bitching about the money, too?


They were both born with enough of it not to have to think about it.

They were both born with enough of it not to have to think about it.

Phyllis was born into money?  I know Ann's daddy was a big union-busting lawyer who did his best to make life miserable for striking miners.  Meanwhile, Ann drove her BMW from Dead show to Dead show and dropped acid and stuff!
::)

$150K would take us out of debt with some left over for savings.

$150K would take us out of debt with some left over for savings.


Same here.  Heck it would be a crapload left for savings.

$150K would fit right up my nose.  8)

Campbell Brown made a comment that men & women are set to different standards. Where a guy can get away with having one or two suits (unless you are John Edwards who can pay $400 for a haircut  ::) ), but a woman gets scrutinized for what she wears (read: Hillary Clinton). Campbell does make a good argument-however $150,000 worth?  :o :o :o  That is a bit over the top-ok, more than a bit. 



Cat

Campbell Brown made a comment that men & women are set to different standards. Where a guy can get away with having one or two suits (unless you are John Edwards who can pay $400 for a haircut  ::) ), but a woman gets scrutinized for what she wears (read: Hillary Clinton). Campbell does make a good argument-however $150,000 worth?  :o :o :o  That is a bit over the top-ok, more than a bit. 



Cat


Another one for whom the term "on sale" is code for "not for people like us"

I also wonder if all those expensive clothes were made in China.



Cat

I also wonder if all those expensive clothes were made in China.



Cat


Piper Palin and a knockoff Louis Vuitton

Sort of relevant.  I'm sure if her daughter is carrying around a fake LV purse, buying clothes made in China wouldn't faze her any.

Piper Palin and a knockoff Louis Vuitton

Sort of relevant.  I'm sure if her daughter is carrying around a fake LV purse, buying clothes made in China wouldn't faze her any.


What I'm wondering is how in an economic crisis a candidate would even think of looking like upper class twits?  Isn't that demeaning towards those who struggle and who's votes the twit needs.

Piper = knocked off

Willow = knocked up

Sarah = knocked out(as of 11/04/08)

Piper = knocked off

Willow = knocked up

Sarah = knocked out(as of 11/04/08)



BTW, it is Bristol who is knocked up.  ;)



Cat

$150K would fit right up my nose.  8)


Oh my stars!  I could do some serious partying with $150K!  I was thinking....un, the less said the better!
:-X

BTW, it is Bristol who is knocked up.  ;)



Cat


Give it time 

Give it time 



http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif


Karma for making me laugh so hard.



Cat

Loopy doesn't cover half of it.


But you NOW have to add Biden to the bunch with his winners!

Is it just me who keeps thinking "Piper Palin picked a peck of pickled pepper"?

Is it just me who keeps thinking "Piper Palin picked a peck of pickled pepper"?


Should'nt that be "woody peckers"?

Should'nt that be "woody peckers"?

I meant as a tongue-twister... OK, so did you ;)