http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/06/the_makers_of_a_racist_obama_t.html

this one will be pretty hard to top... but I'm sure the conservatives will manage somehow.  C'mon Don Imus, we're looking at you.

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.



The difference is that there are no racial slurs based around calling someone white a monkey.. not to mention the similarity to the appearance of the monkey with black face characters.

The difference is that there are no racial slurs based around calling someone white a monkey.. not to mention the similarity to the appearance of the monkey with black face characters.


The word isn't "monkey," it's "honkey."  This word never carried the same weight as the N word!
::)

The difference is that there are no racial slurs based around calling someone white a monkey.. not to mention the similarity to the appearance of the monkey with black face characters.


I'm aware of the connotations, but equality is equality.  If it's ok against white people, it should be ok against black people.

I'm aware of the connotations, but equality is equality.  If it's ok against white people, it should be ok against black people.


Hubba Hubba! How obtuse!
:D

Hubba Hubba! How obtuse!
:D


It's not obtuse, it's consistent.  We can't keep kicking around the same double standards, because if we do, it just breeds contempt.  It's like this whole affirmative action farce.  We favor minorities in hiring in the name of equality that, by doing so, we're actually lessening.

A colorblind society needs colorblind laws and colorblind commentary.  The racial aspect of this silly monkey thing only has power if we give in to it.  In a free country, we must eventually accept the nature of being offended.

For example, if black people didn't make a big deal out of the word "ni**er", then it wouldn't have any power over them.  Because they typically do, that's not the case.

The best thing Obama and his supporters can do in this situation is just laugh at the immaturity of this group and let it pass.  Not giving them the satisfaction of receiving your anger or disdain is the best way to disarm these attention seeking types.

We don't have "colorblind society," and we probably never will.  I'm in favor of social justice for all.  The spectre of a "colorblind society" is often raised by the right-wing because they need to bleed their consciences of the injustice they have perpetuated!

What Cosby and Obama say is not new.  Black ministers and civic leaders have been saying the same stuff for generations.  They were the ones you had to get married and you had to be a father to your children and all that.  The problem was not a lack of values but a lack of economy!
::)

The word isn't "monkey," it's "honkey."  This word never carried the same weight as the N word!
::)


no... there's another slur I'm thinking of.  honkey refers to white people, so yeah, not the same thing at all.

What Cosby and Obama say is not new.  Black ministers and civic leaders have been saying the same stuff for generations.  They were the ones you had to get married and you had to be a father to your children and all that.  The problem was not a lack of values but a lack of economy!
::)


It costs money to be a father to your children, to be in their lives, to make sure they go to school every day, to keep them from doing drugs?  Being poor is one thing.  Being a father to your children is another.

Obama and Cosby are not ragging on people because they are poor.  They are ragging on them because they do not stay in their children's lives.  And from what I have read, the issue of Obama's father running out on he and his mother had nothing to do with poverty.  I do not think that you will hear Obama say "Dad ran out on us because he didn't have enough money."  Now, once his Dad did run out, his Mom was indeed short on money, and thankfully for she and Obama, her parents were able to step in and help.

We don't have "colorblind society," and we probably never will.  I'm in favor of social justice for all.  The spectre of a "colorblind society" is often raised by the right-wing because they need to bleed their consciences of the injustice they have perpetuated!

What Cosby and Obama say is not new.  Black ministers and civic leaders have been saying the same stuff for generations.  They were the ones you had to get married and you had to be a father to your children and all that.  The problem was not a lack of values but a lack of economy!
::)


Favoring races and genders through legislation doesn't promote equality or social justice.  Preventing discrimination by making sure that people aren't treated differently by the system according to race and gender is promoting equality and social justice.  Double standards only promote resentment and prejudice.

It costs money to be a father to your children, to be in their lives, to make sure they go to school every day, to keep them from doing drugs?  Being poor is one thing.  Being a father to your children is another.

Obama and Cosby are not ragging on people because they are poor.  They are ragging on them because they do not stay in their children's lives.  And from what I have read, the issue of Obama's father running out on he and his mother had nothing to do with poverty.  I do not think that you will hear Obama say "Dad ran out on us because he didn't have enough money."  Now, once his Dad did run out, his Mom was indeed short on money, and thankfully for she and Obama, her parents were able to step in and help.

This is a touchy subject.  I certainly did not mean to suggest poor people can't be good parents.  That's why I pointed out that it is the counsel of most responsible leaders to keep the family together and be responsible for your children.  In fact, it is arguably more important to maintain familial cohesion in the midst of poverty.  Kids from dysfunctional rich families get to go to special prep schools and top-notch rehab programs if they get into dope.  If you're living in the projects, you get fewer chances to get it right. 

However, the conservatives insist it is just a matter of values and if the "black family" would only get its act together, everything would be Leave it to Beaver.  I see the cycle of poverty and despair as too serious an issue to write off as character flaw.  Mind you, neither Cosby nor Obama is doing this, but the Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs of the media are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/21/kevin-bryant-south-caroli_n_114098.html

the difference between Obama and Osama is a little B.S.

another just wow moment... from a state Senator. 

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.


Dare I say it, I'm inclined to agree.

However, I do believe the company knew full well what it was doing trying to market such a product.  :-\\

Favoring races and genders through legislation doesn't promote equality or social justice.  Preventing discrimination by making sure that people aren't treated differently by the system according to race and gender is promoting equality and social justice.  Double standards only promote resentment and prejudice.


The way I see it, positive discrimination is a matter of overcompensation. Rightly or wrongly, my view of the attitude of positive discrimination is; 'I'm sorry for what my people have done to you in the past, here's a guaranteed job for you to make things better'.  ???

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.




I never liked the comparison of Bush to a monkey because it really is such an insult to the monkey.



Cat

I never liked the comparison of Bush to a monkey because it really is such an insult to the monkey.


;D

Maybe we ought to offer monkeys a job to compensate.

I never liked the comparison of Bush to a monkey because it really is such an insult to the monkey.



Cat

Monkeys are sensitive, inquisitive creatures.  Bush on the other hand...
::)

;D

Maybe we ought to offer monkeys a job to compensate.

I could prolly train a monkey to do my job, then I'd just hang out and drink booze while the monkey does all the work!
:D

I could prolly train a monkey to do my job, then I'd just hang out and drink booze while the monkey does all the work!
:D


Good thinking! Though I would feel bad because of animal inequality so would have to give him another job on top of that to alleviate my feelings of guilt . . .

;D

Maybe we ought to offer monkeys a job to compensate.


I thought most of them already worked in the Bush administration

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807240001?f=h_latest

Ben Stein thinks a lot of people turning out to hear a speech is Hitler-like... no idea if that means all those crowds show up for the Pope make his holiness into Hitler too... guess what kind of company he keeps when he makes these kinds of comparisons...

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/07/24/next-stop-germany-ich-bin-ein-beginner/

seems like all the crazies on the right want to go for a Hitler reference now...

usually when someone has to fall back on a Hitler reference with nothing solid to back it up, they've lost the argument already.

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.

Yep.  Completely with you on that one (except the bit about voting for Obama...)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/21/kevin-bryant-south-caroli_n_114098.html

the difference between Obama and Osama is a little B.S.

another just wow moment... from a state Senator. 

The guy's a prime twit:
"It was meant tongue in cheek," he said, adding, "I've got some questions about Senator Obama's ties to -- such as his comment that we should negotiate with Iran. Iran's a country that would like to destroy Israel, that bothers me. But is this picture appropriate? I don't know." He let out a loud laugh. "It's gotten a lot more attention than I would have expected."
What kind of dumbass thinks that we *shouldn't* negotiate with Iran?  How do these idiots get elected, anyway?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807240001?f=h_latest

Ben Stein thinks a lot of people turning out to hear a speech is Hitler-like... no idea if that means all those crowds show up for the Pope make his holiness into Hitler too... guess what kind of company he keeps when he makes these kinds of comparisons...

A nice quote from that link:

I think we need a Stein Corollary to Godwin's law.

"If a person invokes a Nazi/Hitler/Holocaust comparison in order to support a completely UNRELATED point (such as the U.S. election, or evolution) then you should point at them and laugh"

(and if the person is Jewish, you should be disgusted with them for exploiting and trivializing such a sensitive historical event)

Spot on.  Mind you, I hold Ben Stein in no real high regard anyway: the only time I've come across him before was the "Expelled" movie

Yep.  Completely with you on that one (except the bit about voting for Obama...)
The guy's a prime twit:What kind of dumbass thinks that we *shouldn't* negotiate with Iran?  How do these idiots get elected, anyway?



I have to give you karma for this: "Quote from: some asshole of a senator".  That just cracked me up.  ;D ;D ;D

However, I agree with you that we SHOULD negotiate with Iran, or any other country for that matter. Not negotiating has led us into the mess we are in now in Iraq. Shoot first, ask questions later.  ::)


Cat

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/24/foxs-kilmeade-confuses-bin-laden-and-obama-twice-in-five-seconds/

another Bin Laden, oops I mean Osama, I mean Obama gaff... yesh... not the first time.  The right wing must be REALLY desperate

You may want to check this out:


https://pol.moveon.org/donate/nasreport.html?r=3980&id=13325-1416372-gCwR2Kx


I don't like rap and to tell you the truth, I never heard of Nas until I saw this. The song he preformed on Stephen Cobert I admit that I like the lyrics (but again, I don't like rap).



Cat

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807240001?f=h_latest

Ben Stein thinks a lot of people turning out to hear a speech is Hitler-like... no idea if that means all those crowds show up for the Pope make his holiness into Hitler too... guess what kind of company he keeps when he makes these kinds of comparisons...

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/07/24/next-stop-germany-ich-bin-ein-beginner/

seems like all the crazies on the right want to go for a Hitler reference now...

usually when someone has to fall back on a Hitler reference with nothing solid to back it up, they've lost the argument already.


BHO's rhetorical style is totally different from Hitler's.  Body language is a bit different too!  The one who comes off as Hitlerian has been McCain when he gets P.O.'d.  Hitler probably had more discriminating taste in der sausagehaus, ja?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_salut.gif

I thought most of them already worked in the Bush administration


Heh heh,

Maybe their board meetings are massive chimps tea-parties.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807240001?f=h_latest

Ben Stein thinks a lot of people turning out to hear a speech is Hitler-like... no idea if that means all those crowds show up for the Pope make his holiness into Hitler too... guess what kind of company he keeps when he makes these kinds of comparisons...

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/07/24/next-stop-germany-ich-bin-ein-beginner/

seems like all the crazies on the right want to go for a Hitler reference now...

usually when someone has to fall back on a Hitler reference with nothing solid to back it up, they've lost the argument already.


Unfortunately, Godwinning is not limited to internet threads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

As you said, these wingnuts have no substance to their argument.

so here's another from party members at the local level

http://www.komonews.com/news/27621254.html

stay classy guys

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.

I suppose everyone decended from Africa anyway.

I suppose everyone decended from Africa anyway.



True, DNA shows that the only pure strain is the San Bushmen of the Kalahari.  Their DNA is the trunk of the family tree.  I saw a documentary on it just the other day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=c246fZ-7z1w

I don't like this sort of thing, but you have to admit that people have likened Bush to a monkey for years now.  It's kind of hypocritical to make that fair game but cry foul here.

I'm no fan of Bush, and I'll probably end up voting for Obama, but I really don't like double standards.



I always thought he kinda looked like a rodent or a bat myself.

However, I agree with you that we SHOULD negotiate with Iran, or any other country for that matter. Not negotiating has led us into the mess we are in now in Iraq. Shoot first, ask questions later.  ::)

Cat


Where did you get the idea that the war in Iraq was the product of no negotiations?  For years... all the way back to 1991... the Bush 1 and Clinton and even Bush 2 administrations entered into talks with iraq, along with the UN, and Iraq thumbed its nose at us.

Now... my personal opinion... I would not have invaded Iraq.  But to say that the invasion did not follow years of negotiations, "sanctions" (not to mention the Bush 1 and Clinton 1 administrations bombing the hel out of Iraq), and other US activities is patently incorrect.

During (mainly the Clinton admin, but also some Bush1/2) the occasional bombings of Iraq I objected to, because in the end all that these aerial exercises did was to generate ill will for the USA, while they had a miniscule punitive effect on Sadaam.  They were great propaganda fodder for the Islamist radicals.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNafTsdlgbSZ8YMoFRDSgrVlEwGwD936205O0

and some more... at a prominent conservative rally of course.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6060110

even Halloween is tainted by these people

The people who call him Muslim are so stupid. Even if he was, if we can have a Christian president, why not a Muslim president?

Yes, he does have the most terrorist-like name possible, but that doesn't mean he's a terrorist, and most Muslims aren't terrorists even if he WAS one.  ;D

Yes, he does have the most terrorist-like name possible,





McVeigh?  Rudolph?

I see what you are getting at, but the sad thing is people are allowing themselves to be lulled into a mindset of what a terrorist is.  They can be very selective about who they choose to vilify, or worship, and the media feeds them what the government wants them to believe.

McVeigh?  Rudolph?

I see what you are getting at, but the sad thing is people are allowing themselves to be lulled into a mindset of what a terrorist is.  They can be very selective about who they choose to vilify, or worship, and the media feeds them what the government wants them to believe.



It's not because they're Islamic, it's because it has "Iraq", "Obama" which is almost like "Osama", and Hussein, while NOT a terrorist, was a dictator. Of course it's ignorant and superstitious to actually think that MAKES him a terrorist, to me it's just a funny coincidence.

These people believe the world is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur and Science is the devil's work though.  ::) ;D

These people believe the world is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur and Science is the devil's work though.  ::) ;D



too true ^

It's not because they're Islamic, it's because it has "Iraq", "Obama" which is almost like "Osama", and Hussein, while NOT a terrorist, was a dictator. Of course it's ignorant and superstitious to actually think that MAKES him a terrorist, to me it's just a funny coincidence.

These people believe the world is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur and Science is the devil's work though.  ::) ;D


Adam and Eve or Fred and Wilma?
:P

More from battlefront.  Caution this is ugly and disheartening

www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/238074.php

More from battlefront.  Caution this is ugly and disheartening

www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/238074.php


Disgusting

This is disturbing.  My God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XmerZEyHE

More from battlefront.  Caution this is ugly and disheartening

www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/238074.php



I saw that on the news last night and I was very disturbed by it. (Carlos was out of the room when they were showing it and when he came in, I told him that it was very disturbing what they were showing.) You would think that McCain & Palin would see what their hatred spewing is doing to their supporters and try to reign it in, but of course they are not because that is only they way they are going to get votes-by making people fear Obama.



Cat

It's not because they're Islamic, it's because it has "Iraq", "Obama" which is almost like "Osama", and Hussein, while NOT a terrorist, was a dictator. Of course it's ignorant and superstitious to actually think that MAKES him a terrorist, to me it's just a funny coincidence.

These people believe the world is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur and Science is the devil's work though.  ::) ;D

Like this woman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwjlUMoLVvA

I don't get how having the middle name "Hussein" makes him a terrorist.  He can't help his middle name and it was his name before the other Hussein came into power.  People need to get a grip.

I don't get how having the middle name "Hussein" makes him a terrorist.  He can't help his middle name and it was his name before the other Hussein came into power.  People need to get a grip.

Plus that other "Hussein" wasn't even a terrorist... a tyrant, yes; even a sponsor of terrorists.  But not a terrorist.

On the other board I frequent, there was some discussion a while back about qualification for voting and whether there ought to be enough of a test to show that you know who/what you're voting for before you can cast your vote... someone like that woman is almost by definition exactly the sort of person who ought to be excluded from voting.

Puts me in mind of a woman whose son was killed in Iraq.  They interviewed her and she said that she believed in the Iraq war because if we hadn't gone there to fight it the Iraqis would have invaded the USA and made all the women were burqas. 

Puts me in mind of a woman whose son was killed in Iraq.  They interviewed her and she said that she believed in the Iraq war because if we hadn't gone there to fight it the Iraqis would have invaded the USA and made all the women were burqas. 



;D  ;D

Puts me in mind of a woman whose son was killed in Iraq.  They interviewed her and she said that she believed in the Iraq war because if we hadn't gone there to fight it the Iraqis would have invaded the USA and made all the women were burqas. 


I don't know.  I think I could handle wearing a burqa.  So her son is going over there for a wardrobe war.  Is this what our tax money is going for?  To hell with health care for people who need it we've got a burqa war to fight.  http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/kattofix/smilies/gaah.gif

When I first heard the story I figured it was a lie right off the bat.  In and of itself it doesn't appear to be racist, until you read the whole story and find out she accused the made-up attacker of being African American, of course  ::) 

The McCain camp was quick to believe it.

www.edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/mccain.sticker/?iref=hpmostpop




(CNN) -- A Republican campaign worker who told police she was assaulted by a man angered by a John McCain sticker on her car admitted she made up the report, the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, assistant police chief said Friday.
Police say Ashley Todd, 20, admitted making up the report she was attacked because of a McCain sticker.

Ashley Todd, 20, of College Park, Texas, will be charged with filing a false police report, a misdemeanor, and may face more charges, said police spokeswoman Diane Richard at a news conference.

"This has wasted so much time. ... It's just a lot of wasted man hours," Assistant Police Chief Maurita Bryant said at the same briefing.

The woman told investigators a man approached her Wednesday night at an ATM in Pittsburgh's East End, put a blade to her neck and demanded money, Richard said.

Police said they found "several inconsistencies" in Todd's statement and she was not seen in surveillance videos taken at the ATM. She was asked to take a polygraph test Friday morning, Richard said. The results were not made public.

Later, Todd came to the police station to help work on a composite sketch of the alleged attacker. When she arrived, Todd "told them she just wanted to tell the truth" -- that she was not robbed, and there was no attacker, Bryant said.

Todd originally told police a man "punched her in the back of the head, knocking her to the ground, and he continued to punch and kick her while threatening to teach her a lesson for being a McCain supporter," according to a police statement.

The woman also told police her attacker "called her a lot of names and stated that 'You are going to be a Barack supporter,' at which time she states he sat on her chest, pinning both her hands down with his knees, and scratched into her face a backward letter 'B' on the right side of her face using what she believed to be a very dull knife."

Bryant described Todd as "very cordial, polite, cooperating," and said the woman was surprised by all the media attention. Asked whether the false report was politically motivated, Bryant replied, "It's difficult to say."

"She is stating that she was in her vehicle driving around, and she came up with this idea," she said. "She said she has prior mental problems and doesn't know how the backward letter 'B' got on her face."

However, Todd was the only one in the vehicle, and "when she saw the 'B' she thought she must have been the one who did it," Bryant said.

"We're talking with the district attorney's office and conferring on just how we're going to handle it," she said. "It's been different stories through the night and this morning."

She said there was no indication that anyone else was involved.

Richard said the woman had described her alleged attacker as an African-American, 6 feet 4 inches tall with a medium build and short dark hair, wearing dark clothing and shiny shoes.

Before the revelation that the report was false, McCain spokeswoman Jill Hazelbaker said that McCain and running mate Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin "spoke to the victim and her family after learning about the incident."

The Obama campaign also had issued a statement wishing the woman a "speedy recovery."

Sure, it doesn't matter who wins because the President is just someone propped up for us to blame.  But just on principle (and for old time's sake, because I remember a time when the country wasn't too far gone to save), won't somebody gimme a car with a cop motor, a 40-cubic-inch plant, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks...

http://bb.wynnear.com/pics/Illinois_Nazis2_medium.jpg

Because I hate Illinois Tennessee Nazis.

Sure, it doesn't matter who wins because the President is just someone propped up for us to blame. 


I think you're right ...insofar as the President ... is really a 'figurehead' ... who has all kinds of advisors / support people .. to make him look good / be the mouthpiece for THEIR agenda .... but as for making no difference whatsoever ?   :-\\

I gotta think so many others ... would've done a LOT more than just sat there ... like Dubbya did ... when told of the WTC (even the oft derided Jimmy Carter )  ... or was appalingly late in doing much about Katrina.

I do suspect the 2 main camps .... have slightly different ideologies   ::)   ... and that just MAYBE ... that war in Iraq ... would NOT have happened under the Democrats ?     ???   

I gotta think so many others ... would've done a LOT more than just sat there ... like Dubbya did ... when told of the WTC (even the oft derided Jimmy Carter )  ... or was appalingly late in doing much about Katrina.


Naw, not really.

What was whispered into Dubya's ear on 9/11 was most certainly a variation of "Remember we talked about what to do if Something Bad happened?  Well, Something Bad is happening.  We don't know how much worse it'll get, but we're on it.  Read the story, do whatever you want, but do not leave this room until we've got everything in place to move you.  Yeah, it's that bad.  Stall for time until we're ready to move you out, we'll brief you on the way to the airport, and you can take it from there."

As for Katrina, that was just normal bureacuratic screwuppery.  No politician, nor any political appointee, would want not to be seen with his sleeves rolled up. 

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.  But never attribute to incompetence what can be attributed to bureaucracy.  Sometimes the playbook works (9/11, when we really didn't know how many aircraft had been compromised), and sometimes it doesn't (Katrina, when anyone with a radio scanner -- and some people streamed radio scanner broadcasts on the Intarweb -- could realize that HomeSec, LA-NatGuard, LA-StatPol, and NOLA cops/fire/medical personnel were all working at cross purposes). 

But every President is obliged to follow the playbook.  Frankly, when it comes to following his orders and letting his handlers do the work, that was about the only thing Bush II was any good at.

^

I still reckon in terms of incompetence for the job ... he's in a different league ! :D



And your comments on the Iraq war ?    ???

And your comments on the Iraq war ?    ???


Lemme put it this way.  You really think that the invasion was his idea?  That he came up with it all by himself?  Or is it more likely that he was persuaded by people a little more clever than him?

At the outset, it wasn't even that bad of a gamble (it certainly had better odds of winning than the failout package from last month!), and (unlike Congress, until it got another $150B in bribes) at least he followed his orders. 

Now it's since turned out that the people who were giving him his orders were wrong.  But we only know that because the gamble failed.  So the Prez takes the blame, and his backers get off scot-free.  That's how the system's supposed to work.  Ain't saying it's right.  Ain't even saying it's Constitutional (it's within the letter of the Constitution, but probably not the spirit of the Constitution, and whether the letter/spirit of the Constitution says that the spirit/letter of the Constitution oughta triumph is a personal judgement we all have to make for ourselves).  But it's how it's worked out, probably since before I was born, and probably until long after I'm dust.

Lemme put it this way.  You really think that the invasion was his idea?  That he came up with it all by himself?  Or is it more likely that he was persuaded by people a little more clever than him?



No ... he's not clever enough to come up with that idea all by himself ... so .. never did I think it was 'HIS' idea.  Yeah .... I know there were a bunch in the admin in his ear ... convincing him to go in there. However, I'm sure oil ties in his family .... had zero to do with any of this  ::) .


Still don't think the Dems would've gone into Iraq. There'd be a lot more soldiers alive today .... a lot less families / wives / loved ones ... heartbroken .... a lot less Arabs mamed / killed .. who now JUSTIFIABLY hate the west .. who maybe didn't before ... and we'll probably pay for that ... in a new wave of suicide bombers .... when they are older / able to travel under their own steam .


Yes ... and a lot of goodwill / sympathy for 911 from other nations  ... that Bush and his lot have since squandered !

As for Katrina, that was just normal bureacuratic screwuppery.  No politician, nor any political appointee, would want not to be seen with his sleeves rolled up. 



I, for one, do not forget that one of the reasons given for w taking so long was because he was at the ranch in Texas and hadn't watched the television all weekend so was unaware of the extent of the devastation.  To imagine that that would be believed by anyone shows the contempt people like he and his "advisors" have for the American public.

I, for one, do not forget that one of the reasons given for w taking so long was because he was at the ranch in Texas and hadn't watched the television all weekend so was unaware of the extent of the devastation.  To imagine that that would be believed by anyone shows the contempt people like he and his "advisors" have for the American public.


Yes  'Danoota' .......... I too have wondered WHAT he was doing whilst that was all going on ? I could be wrong  :-FAR more important things to occupy him .......






























like another round of golf ?     ???  :P  :D  ;D

I, for one, do not forget that one of the reasons given for w taking so long was because he was at the ranch in Texas and hadn't watched the television all weekend so was unaware of the extent of the devastation.  To imagine that that would be believed by anyone shows the contempt people like he and his "advisors" have for the American public.


You must have missed those guitar photo-op pictures the following Monday (standing alongside best pal John McCain).

He knew, he just didn't care enough to end his vacation.

You must have missed those guitar photo-op pictures the following Monday (standing alongside best pal John McCain).

He knew, he just didn't care enough to end his vacation.




See. ^  He DID have more important things to do !   8)























:D