I have been thinking of writing this since I got home last weekend, but decided I wanted to calm down a bit first.

On the 4th of July holiday I traveled to Los Angeles to spend it with my wife and son.  We had a great time, and on 7 July I headed back to LAX to return to El Paso.

Now one thing I have gotten used to is how much support I get around the country, especially when I travel in uniform (which I always do when I fly, Airport Security is more relaxed towards military in uniform).  And since we got to the airport area earlier then expected, we decided to kill some time shopping.

Now I was realizing that nobody was thanking me for serving, but that was no big deal.  But when I went outside for a smoke, I got the other side of the stick.  First came a car with 3 guys in it, who yelled at me through the open window "F**c Bush, F**c the Army, F**c the war!".  I just stared at them as they drove past, unsure what to even say.  But several people around me applauded their sentiment.  Then right before I headed back in, a young lady walked by, looked at me and simply said "Fascist!".

I am wondering if this is just an isolated California thing, or if people are starting to get closer and closer to starting to yell things like "Baby Killer" at returning veterans.

And I do worry about things like this, because today I got my Movement Warning Order.  Effective 1 October, I am on 72 hour deployment warning to go to CENTCOM (Central Command).  For those that do not know Army Talk, that means South West Asia.  In particular, Quatar-Kuwait-Iraq.

Now the expected ship date is sometime in April, but after October 1 I could be on a plane with as little as 3 days warning.  I just hope that if it comes early, it at least waits until December.  That is because my wife is planning on moving to El Paso in November, and I would like to spend at least a little time with her before shipping out.  But she understands, being with me for 7 years while I was in the Marines.  She understands deployments, but after reconciling following 16 years of seperation, we would like at least some time together.

But mostly, I worry about my own country's reaction to me.  When I return in 2010, will I get the same reaction my Uncle did after his service in Vietnam?  Will some movie be made in another 10-15 years, about a OIF-OEF veteran snapping and shooting up a small town with machineguns?

Because it seems to me that more and more people are getting personal against the servicemembers themselves that like me choose to serve.  And I hope it is just isolated to the "fringe states" like California.

The same thing happened during Nam.  You have people who don't understand that the war may or may not be justified however taking it out on the average soldier is asinine.  Personally I am not for this war.  However my main concern is for the troops coming home.  Most will have PTSD, and don't need people vilifying them for what they endured over there.  Too many Vietnam vets killed themselves because they couldn't handle it.  Now were seeing some Iraqi War vets doing the same thing.  Rest assure you'll never hear that kind of stuff come out of my mouth.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, Mush. 

If there are people so immature as to yell obscenities and political epitaphs at men and women in uniform that is their problem.  I'm not saying it will ever be pleasant, it just says more about them that it does you. 

There are cities in the country such as Berkeley or Cambridge where armed services personnel might feel unwelcoming any time.  However, if this war continues to plummet further and further out of favor, you might encounter hostility even in the middle of Texas. 

When I see somebody in uniform, I make no assumptions about why that person chose to serve or what his or her political convictions are likely to be.  People join for all kinds of reasons. 

Nobody benefits from shouting at soldiers.  Condemning others for who they are or what they do doesn't motivate change. 

Anyway, just my two cents.

  First came a car with 3 guys in it, who yelled at me through the open window "F**c Bush, F**c the Army, F**c the war!".  I just stared at them as they drove past, unsure what to even say.  But several people around me applauded their sentiment.  Then right before I headed back in, a young lady walked by, looked at me and simply said "Fascist!".


I live in the Bay Area.  Yeah, that Bay Area.  Stone's throw from Berzerkeley.  I spent the Fourth watching as good a Fourth of July Parade as I've seen anywhere in America.  And on behalf of California, let me just say "frack the three idiots in the car, and frack the young lady in question."

Warning:  Skinny-Puppy-Lyrics-Style Rant commences here.  (Edit: Couple of edits based on what was playing while I was typing this up.)

As a civilian, I've got the luxury of bitching about not must my fellow civilians, but I've also got the luxury of bitching about the civilian leadership; the worst the government is likely to do to me is log this post as Insufficiently Patriotic, put me on a watch list and give me the double-glove treatment whenever I travel by air.  (Remember back in the day when Yakov Smirnov's "In Soviet Russia, TV watches you" was funny...)

But I digress.  I supported the war, and if I thought the present civilian leadership (whether in the Executive or Legislative branches, and whether they follow the tribal totems of the Elephant or the Jackass) had any interest in winning it, as opposed to making political points against each other at the expense of the taxpayers, I'd still support it.  The reason I no longer support it because I think we're basically throwing good money after bad at this point; we made a decent bet, and we lost.  Because sunk costs shouldn't enter into any rational economic decision, at this point, the right financial move would be to cut our losses, pull everyone out, nuke the site from orbit, and dig the oil out ten years from now when the radiation's died down.  (If we'd done it five years ago, it'd be like Japan in 1951; every major city razed to ashes, and five years later, we thought of them as "those guys whose asses we had to kick, but now they just want to sell us stuff!")

But I've been slowly convinced by the decline in the number of random bombings in Iraq over the past year that maybe my "fuggit, nuke 'em!" position was premature.  (I remain skeptical; it could well be that the bad guys are merely lying low until Obama takes over.  I'll only know whether I was right or wrong by waiting until a year or so after the election.)

Shoot, at the rate our banks are failing (for God's sake, make sure none of you or your relatives ever have more than the $100K FDIC limit in any US account - no US bank is safe at this point), you might end up being safer by being in theater (and out of the urban centers) over the next few years.  No matter who wins in November, and whether we pull through this mess or implode into third-world chaos, by the time you get back in 2010, it won't the same country you left, and or better or worse, you'll in a better position to help yourself and your families than any of us civilians.

Now playing: "This government is illegitimate.  This government is unrepresentative.  This government is corrupt.  And this government is unfit to govern."
  - (very probably Nelson Mandela), as sampled in Nina Hagen's So Bad (1995)

And with the President at 28%, and Congress at 9% in the polls, most of us civilians trust you guys more than we trust our own civilian leadership.  If that isn't bitterly ironic proof that the country's toast, I don't know what is.  Do the right thing over there, just as you would do the right thing over here.  Take care of your friends, your family, and those about whom you care.  You owe us civilians nothing more, and you owe yourself, your family, and your friends nothing less.

I'm a civilian.  Thought I could make a buck off this war by just buying into defense and civilian surveillance stocks, and that we'd wind up with cheap oil after we pacified ((sic)) the natives.  Worked from 2003-2006, but I failed to realize the goal wasn't ultimately to win, but to wipe out the treasury, devalue the buck, and wipe out what was left of the investor class.  Now our dollar's barely worth toilet paper.  Oil's at levels Bin Laden wouldn't have fantasized about in 2001.  Civilian surveillance at a level that Stalin would have creamed his jeans at.  The economy's in shambles, and I'm down 30% for not having realized it in time.  Expatriation taxes a'la Chuck Rangel came in last month.  Capital controls probably aren't far behind. As soft as I've got it compared to 75% of my countrymen, it still sucks to be me, but it serves me right for gambling on the white-glove game for one more year rather than just walking away last year and letting the country collapse.  At least you were willing to get your hands dirty.  So I fail; the future doesn't belong to me.

Now Playing: 
"The future belongs to those of us still willing to get our hands dirty."
-  KMFDM, Back in the USSA (2002)

So as others have said - don't let the bastards get you down.  A Democratic Congress has a 9% (single-digits, lower than Bush by 20 points!), and that approval rating is lower in Democratic-controlled states than in Republican-controlled states precisely because you're going to be serving over there in 2009-2010 no matter who wins in November.  Don't confuse most civilians' contempt of the military's civilian leadership with contempt for the military tasked to carry out that leadership's policies; the Democrats hate their representatives even more than the Republicans hate theirs.  The reason idiots are hassling you is because most civilians are idiots -- they don't understand the distinction between the military and its civilian leadership, and it's probably futile (and you'd know the legalities) of trying to explain it to them. 

So don't bother. 

Back on topic, at long last:

"Never retreat, never explain, never apologize; just get the thing done and let them howl."
  - Canuckistani suffragete (yay, ahead of her time!) and prohibitionist (boo, hiss, grr!) Nellie McClung

History is repeating itself. I was hoping that people would learn the lessons from Vietnam but unfortunately they haven't.

Mushroom,

I must admit that I agree with the guy who said, "F**c Bush, F**c the war!" But I don't agree with the middle statement and I don't agree that these should be directed at you. These people do not realize that YOU have nothing to do with what is going on in the world. You are just following orders. As for the woman who called you a fascist, again, she is directing it at the wrong people/person. People are angry and being in uniform you represent the people who are making them angry so they are taking it out on you-it is blaming the messenger so to speak.

As you know, I do not agree with this war. I think it is a travesty to put men, women, & children in harms way for oil and profits. However, I admire you and everyone else in uniform who are doing their jobs despite the uneducated who will blame you for hell that this Administration has created.



Cat 

History is repeating itself. I was hoping that people would learn the lessons from Vietnam but unfortunately they haven't.

Mushroom,

I must admit that I agree with the guy who said, "F**c Bush, F**c the war!" But I don't agree with the middle statement and I don't agree that these should be directed at you. These people do not realize that YOU have nothing to do with what is going on in the world. You are just following orders. As for the woman who called you a fascist, again, she is directing it at the wrong people/person. People are angry and being in uniform you represent the people who are making them angry so they are taking it out on you-it is blaming the messenger so to speak.

As you know, I do not agree with this war. I think it is a travesty to put men, women, & children in harms way for oil and profits. However, I admire you and everyone else in uniform who are doing their jobs despite the uneducated who will blame you for hell that this Administration has created.



Cat 



karma...very well stated, Cat. :)

There will always be people, who, for whatever reasons, will act like this.  That's life.  That's America.

what's this four letter word that starts with "F" and ends with "C"? annoying though these guys in the car were, at least we can give them a point or two for creative cussing.

I'm sorry this happened to you, Mushroom.  Some people are just jerks.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Mushroom.  California is pretty nuts.

One of the saner liberal states is New York, or so I hear.  Down here in NC, we get mostly conservative extremism rather than the liberal kind.

I must admit that I agree with the guy who said, "F**c Bush, F**c the war!" But I don't agree with the middle statement and I don't agree that these should be directed at you. These people do not realize that YOU have nothing to do with what is going on in the world. You are just following orders. As for the woman who called you a fascist, again, she is directing it at the wrong people/person. People are angry and being in uniform you represent the people who are making them angry so they are taking it out on you-it is blaming the messenger so to speak.

I totally agree with this - alot of people have understandable, but misdirected anger. People really underestimate what soldiers and military people go through, like you were saying, with the stress Vietnam vets went through. And that was a stupid war many people opposed (probably most soldiers themselves), but they didn't have a choice.


Even though I'm a liberal and antiwar (with Vietnam and especially with Iraq, and I loathe the Bush administration in general) I applaud guys like you Mushroom. I'm concerned with the safety of the troops, not getting p*ssed at them for doing something they had no control over. I'm sure there's cops who don't want to give the guy going 59MPH in a 55 zone a speeding ticket, but they have to because it's their job. Same thing here.

Even though I'm a liberal and antiwar (with Vietnam and especially with Iraq, and I loathe the Bush administration in general) I applaud guys like you Mushroom. 


Yeah, and just to make it clear, even though I'm economically conservative and think the war that started out as a risky (but fundamentally promising) gamble... has now turned into a WOMBAT: (Waste Of Money, Brains And Time), I also applaud guys like Mushroom. 

The difference between guys who wear the uniform and guys like me is that guys like him still believe.  I've given up on the Republic.  He hasn't.  And if the Republic is ever to rise from its ashes, it'll be because of guys like him - who still believe in the shining city on the hill - as opposed to guys like me, who think it's all downhill from here and that the only sane thing left to do is to rearrange the deck chairs, strike up the band, and enjoy one more round of drinks as the ship of state slips beneath the waves.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Mushroom.  California is pretty nuts.


California says, Why, thank you!
:D

I'm not opposed to war, but I am opposed to this one and the way it's being handled. That's not on you though, Mushroom: like other's have said here, I support the troops even though Iraq is an inescapable cluster fudge at this point.

"F**c Bush, F**c the Army, F**c the war": like Catwoman wrote, I agree with the first and third sentiments only. Directing those words at you is pointless as well as ignorant.

Ant

As for the woman who called you a fascist, again, she is directing it at the wrong people/person. People are angry and being in uniform you represent the people who are making them angry so they are taking it out on you-it is blaming the messenger so to speak.


Actually, I represent the people of the United States, all of them.  I do not represent any party, president, or administration.  In my 11 years of service, i have served under 4 different Presidents, and 7 different Congresses.  I followed all of them equally, because that is my job.

And for those that think this war is unpopular with the military, think about this:

We were facing 2 different deployments before the decision was made which we would be going.  We would go to either South Korea, or SW Asia.  The decision has been bouncing back and forth or the last 2 months.

At 9:15am on Monday, the anouncement was made that it was official, we were going to SW Aisa.  And my Battaion (of around 700 Soldiers) all cheered! Most of us (myself included) were actually happy with this decision.  We would much rather be actually supporting our fellow military members who are in harm's way, then in sitting on a mountain looking across the DMZ for months on end.

For the next 3 months, we have the option to request a transfer if we do not want to go to SW Asia.  And I would be surprised if more then 4 or 5 actually request that. 

And you are all right, California is insane.  I was born there, and lived there most of my life.  I was there during Gulf War I, and saw the protests first hand (even getting caught with a van full of injured Marines on a freeway shut down by protestors).  I even see my son who is a drug addict given marijuanna by a quack because he gets a prescription because he "can't sleep".

I have often joked that in 2003 I "escaped from LA" by moving to Alabama.  And the more I see of other areas of the country, the more I am sure that California is totally out of touch of the rest of the nation.  So as far as I am concerned, they are more then welcomet o live in their little "Fantasyland", with reality being pumped to them from Hollywood, Disneyland, and every other delusional source.

However, some people say this war is being run incorrectly.  How should it be run then?  Nuke them all and shoot them in the dark?  Not get involved, and let Saddam continue to slaughter his own citizens?  Maybe even turn a blindeye as he tries to assassinate a second former president?

I still could not care less about the price of oil.  Let gas go to $6 a gallon, I could not care less.  But the deaths of between 500,000 and 1,000,000 (the exact numbers will never be known) of Iraqi civilians by the Saddam regeime is my first, last, and only justification of removing him from power.  Even the deaths in Darfur do not reach the lowest estimates of Saddam's atrocities.

I have already quoted from John Stuart Mill, so no need to do it again.

Dear Mushroom:

Unfortunately, most people think and act stupidly.

Moreover, these days many people seem to actually be proud of their stupidity!

You are a good man. You are a noble man. You are a warrior. You are the one who really has the right to be proud.

You do not need to waste your time answering back to stupid people. Simply smile and realize that when you are fighting like a man, they most probably will be whining and sniveling.

F**k them!

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Mushroom.  California is pretty nuts.

One of the saner liberal states is New York, or so I hear.  Down here in NC, we get mostly conservative extremism rather than the liberal kind.


Where I'm at, It's a mixed-bag.

I live in a conservative state in a liberal area. We had 26 mayors who were Democrat, 22 who were Republican, 6 who were Whigs, and an Independent mayor.

So mostly, it's a Blue-collar city and we have been out-of-touch with most of Ohio.

And you may feel okay here...but then again maybe not. We had a Military soilder who got shot in the city where I reside while waiting for the bus. :-\\

Where I'm at, It's a mixed-bag.

I live in a conservative state in a liberal area. We had 26 mayors who were Democrat, 22 who were Republican, 6 who were Whigs, and an Independent mayor.

So mostly, it's a Blue-collar city and we have been out-of-touch with most of Ohio.

And you may feel okay here...but then again maybe not. We had a Military soilder who got shot in the city where I reside while waiting for the bus. :-\\

So long as it was just one soldier and just one bus, let's not make a big stink about it!

Sincerely,

The boys back at the press office

It doesn't sound like this incident is indicative of all public opinion. It sounds like a group of hoons, who probably stand for nothing at all, mouthing off to make each other seem witty and tough..... Forget it and continue to be proud of your service to your country.

It doesn't sound like this incident is indicative of all public opinion. It sounds like a group of hoons, who probably stand for nothing at all, mouthing off to make each other seem witty and tough..... Forget it and continue to be proud of your service to your country.
Well said! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPR8yPlVQwo

It doesn't sound like this incident is indicative of all public opinion. It sounds like a group of hoons, who probably stand for nothing at all, mouthing off to make each other seem witty and tough.....


Unfortunately, those are the folks who will get air time on the news for all to see. Saying "thank you for your service" is not news, so no one sees that side.

i disagree. the military is constantly being lionized in the press. they're often rather excessively idealistic about the invariable nobility of the soldiers, too. a lot of soldiers enlist because they're truly heroic. unfortunately, a lot also enlist who are sociopaths. it's simply the truth.

i disagree. the military is constantly being lionized in the press. they're often rather excessively idealistic about the invariable nobility of the soldiers, too. a lot of soldiers enlist because they're truly heroic. unfortunately, a lot also enlist who are sociopaths. it's simply the truth.


I respectfully disagree with your point about press coverage. According to the latest Pew research the American public is becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the media coverage of the military. The percentage saying press criticism weakens American defenses has been increasing in recent years and now stands at its highest point in surveys dating to 1985.

As far as sociopaths in the military, Major David S. Pierson, US Army, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, states that sociopaths make up less than 4% of the force. That's still a significant number, though, and larger than the percentage in the general population.