Sen. Phil Gramm says we're a nation of whiners because we think the economy is headed into a recession.

To give credit where it is due, McCain repudiated Gramm's remarks and said he might give Gramm a job as ambassador to Belarus, but the citinizens of Minsk probably wouldn't welcome him.  Good on McCain!

'Course, McCain's prolly gonna buy Gramm a Gibson Martini this weekend and bone up on their next crooked deal!
:-\\


I love Phil Gramm, he thinks I'm dumb.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080710/pl_politico/11658;_ylt=ArlVjWGDWkc_I6pGoywPS_Zh24cA

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_gramm

  God I love it!  Phil Gramm - McLOL's economic adviser...

  "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession..." ~ Phil Gramm...

  Phil Gramm, who took the "Enron Loophole" to Congress.  Check it out.  This guy is scum...






 

This guy is scum...


He's a politician, you're being redundant.

He's a politician, you're being redundant.


  You're quite right.... 

  Beides, if you're punching a clock you're probably seeing a bad economy in any case...

I've always found Sen. Gramm to be an abrasive, snotty jerk.

http://upipics.upi.com/photo/story/t/bf14077ea39c3f0bddc9bd2bc3b734c2/Gramm_credits_McCain_with_winning_in_Iraq.jpg

Does this look like an abrasive, snotty jerk to you???

Wait, don't answer that. ::)

It just FEELS like we are in a recession.

My city has lost the most people this decade, only New Orleans had worse, but C-Town may be off the Top-50 by 2010.

It just FEELS like we are in a recession.

My city has lost the most people this decade, only New Orleans had worse, but C-Town may be off the Top-50 by 2010.


Buck up and quit your sissy whining.  At least we haven't been nuked.  Well, not yet. :-\\

Sen. Phil Gramm says we're a nation of whiners because we think the economy is headed into a recession.


Well in a way, he's right.

I was in East Germany when it was still East Germany.

People in this country don't realize how good they have it.

Well in a way, he's right.

I was in East Germany when it was still East Germany.

People in this country don't realize how good they have it.

You wanna hear some bigtime whining in this country, raise the capital gains tax to 20%.  You might have to rent out that second cottage in the Hamptons this summer!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/crybaby2.gif

Gramm is now the Pope of Smug now that Jesse Helms and Jerry Falwell are in Smug Heaven.
::)

The third largest bank failure in American history last Friday, and now the Bush administration is promising to support Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

But we're not heading into a recession

Whiners or Winos?


http://sknutrition.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/wine.jpg



Cat

Whiners or Winos?


http://sknutrition.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/wine.jpg



Cat




The way this BS is going down, I'm about ready to go to the medicine chest and mix me a Kitty Dukakis!
::)

We ARE a nation of whiners.

We are so self-absorbed in our own little issues and problems, most people do not realize (or care) that things are much worse in other nations in the world.  Gasoline hits $4 a gallon, and people scream and cry.  Never mind that most nations in Europe have been paying almost double that for years.  We whine about the idea that we may have a "National ID Card", but never think that this is about the only nation on the planet that does not already have such an item required.

My wife is from another country, and she is amazed at how spoiled most Americans are.  She required a stamp on her internal passport to go from one state to another in her home county.  She was required to surrender her passport on demand, and would be jailed if she refused (or forgot it at home).  People would dissapear from her school, and she knew you did not ask where they went.

Yes, we are a nation of spoiled whiny little children.  Very few have ever really grown up, and act like it is the job of the "country" to feed and clothe and diaper them for their entire lives.  And to power their bottom and keep the monsters away.

Just so long as they are not required to do anything, pay anything, or think anything.

  She required a stamp on her internal passport to go from one state to another in her home county.  She was required to surrender her passport on demand, and would be jailed if she refused (or forgot it at home).  People would dissapear from her school, and she knew you did not ask where they went.


Give it time.

All of the technological infrastructure existed 5-10 years ago.  China's Great Firewall runs on Cisco hardware.  We've got weapons (and I hold shares in the contractors that make them!) that we won't use overseas because of the PR implications.  The past 2-3 years have seen us put into place all the requisite pieces of the legal infrastructure.

What happens next is what has always happened next.

Even though you're losing a few points for being within one degree of separation from someone like me, your posts have demonstrated sufficient loyalty that you'll ultimately do OK, no matter how badly it turns out.  (Me?  The best I can hope for is that the automated scoring systems are accurate enough to score me as "witty enough to be useful as a propagandist, and cynical enough to accept the job offer", rather than just sending me to Room 101.)

i think the thing about the $4-a-gallon gas is less about what we have to pay, and more that people are scared witless over what's happening to the economy in general that energy prices have quadrupled in the last couple of years. what does that mean for inflation, GDP, standard of living, and whether we'll be able to heat our homes in the winter?

also, the US is geared toward a commuter lifestyle. we have virtually no public transportation in america, unlike in europe, so although that is, in a certain way, our own fault (although the car companies and big oil have long been opposed to public transportation so...), elevations in gas prices affect the sprawl-oriented US much worse than other countries.

as for the national ID card, i might be okay with that if i had a government that didn't tinker with elections in suspicious ways and didnt detain people indefinitely without charges. as it is, the idea of this government tracking me everywhere i go with some fascist-lite "papers" makes me extremely queasy.

i think the thing about the $4-a-gallon gas is less about what we have to pay, and more that people are scared witless over what's happening to the economy in general that energy prices have quadrupled in the last couple of years. what does that mean for inflation, GDP, standard of living, and whether we'll be able to heat our homes in the winter?

also, the US is geared toward a commuter lifestyle. we have virtually no public transportation in america, unlike in europe, so although that is, in a certain way, our own fault (although the car companies and big oil have long been opposed to public transportation so...), elevations in gas prices affect the sprawl-oriented US much worse than other countries.

as for the national ID card, i might be okay with that if i had a government that didn't tinker with elections in suspicious ways and didnt detain people indefinitely without charges. as it is, the idea of this government tracking me everywhere i go with some fascist-lite "papers" makes me extremely queasy.


You can get pulled over by the state pigs and if the computer says your papers are out of order, they can cuff you, print you, and lock you in a cell!

Entres nous, we've already forked over so much of our private...s-ss-stuff...to the state, yet another onorous ID card won't make a difference!

This guy is scum...

He's a politician, you're being redundant.


Why is it we think democracy is so great, yet calling a politician "scum" is considered somehow tautologous?

..sorry, but I find that comment rather depressing :(

He's a politician, you're being redundant.


Why is it we think democracy is so great, yet calling a politician "scum" is considered somehow tautologous?



Ooooh! BIG WORDS!
;)

Why is it we think democracy is so great, yet calling a politician "scum" is considered somehow tautologous?

..sorry, but I find that comment rather depressing :(


Ditto here. 

But if you really want depression, ask yourself why you trust the military.  Personally, the main reason we trust the military is because it's apolitical.  It follows orders, no matter which wing of the Party happens to be in vogue on Capitol Hill.  The problem is that with a Jackass Congress at 9%, and an Elephant President at sub-30%, I (apparently along with at least 60% of the American public who aren't diehard Jackass or Elephant fans) trust the military more than I trust its civilian leadership, and I trust it even though I know that doing so is Orwellian doublethink at its finest, and that practically by definition, doing so is the least-constitutional option available to me.

"Well, Doctor, what have we got?  A republic or a monarchy?'
'A Republic, if you can keep it'"
  - attr. to Benjamin Franklin, ca. 1787

We civilians have met the enemy, and he is us.

Many people seem to forget that we already have a National ID Card.  It was put in place by FDR, and every working adult (and now child) is required to have one.  As well as any foreign national that works in this country.

Many people seem to forget that we already have a National ID Card.  It was put in place by FDR, and every working adult (and now child) is required to have one.  As well as any foreign national that works in this country.


Oh I think I know the answer to this.  Could it be the Social Security card?

Oh I think I know the answer to this.  Could it be the Social Security card?


Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding!  You got it.

In fact, I believe that adding a photograph to it will serve several functions.  Among them helf crack down on cases of Identity theft and fraud.

Of course, people are also lining up now to get the new Passport Card.  It just hit the streets this week, and already there are reports of high demand, especially among those that live in border states.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2008/07/12/20080712passcards0712.html

And when you think about it, this is no more then a Federal ID also.  So they are already out there.  One is required, one is not.  I leave those paranoid about such things to stew in the crazy factory.

Oh I think I know the answer to this.  Could it be the Social Security card?


Funny thing is, when FDR introduced it, he swore up and down that his silly little card would never be used for identification purposes. 

And as recently as the 1980s, the cards looked like this.  They said "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" not just because they lacked security features that would have made them useful for identification, but that for the first 50 years after the government introduced them, the government didn't see the need for a national ID system.

This is a pop culture message board, though, so this post wouldn't be complete without a movie reference:

Vasily: Then I will live in Montana, and I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck, or a ... possibly even a "recreational vehicle", and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Ramius: Oh, yes.
Vasily: No papers?
Ramius: No papers. State to state.
- from Hunt for Red October

"Papers, please" has been the catchphrase of the Gestapo agent and the KGB thug for the past 60 years of American pop culture.  Those who do not remember their pop culture are condemned to re-experience it, this time in real life.

Funny thing is, when FDR introduced it, he swore up and down that his silly little card would never be used for identification purposes. 

And as recently as the 1980s, the cards looked like this.  They said "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" not just because they lacked security features that would have made them useful for identification, but that for the first 50 years after the government introduced them, the government didn't see the need for a national ID system.

This is a pop culture message board, though, so this post wouldn't be complete without a movie reference:

Vasily: Then I will live in Montana, and I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck, or a ... possibly even a "recreational vehicle", and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Ramius: Oh, yes.
Vasily: No papers?
Ramius: No papers. State to state.
- from Hunt for Red October

"Papers, please" has been the catchphrase of the Gestapo agent and the KGB thug for the past 60 years of American pop culture.  Those who do not remember their pop culture are condemned to re-experience it, this time in real life.


Well, that's what scares the bejesus out of me, after the national ID card comes the internal passport:

"You hef papers?"

I imagine the right-wing would want a private corporation to administer the whole thing because government can't be trusted, so you'll have rampant confusion and identity theft concurrent with oppressive surveillance.  It's like the credit bureaus, they NEVER make mistakes...and if they were to make a mistake, you'd have no problem calling them up and gettiing it corrected because Experion and Equifax are in the private sector, not the godless government!
::)
::)

Funny thing is, when FDR introduced it, he swore up and down that his silly little card would never be used for identification purposes. 

And as recently as the 1980s, the cards looked like this.  They said "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" not just because they lacked security features that would have made them useful for identification, but that for the first 50 years after the government introduced them, the government didn't see the need for a national ID system.

This is a pop culture message board, though, so this post wouldn't be complete without a movie reference:

Vasily: Then I will live in Montana, and I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck, or a ... possibly even a "recreational vehicle", and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Ramius: Oh, yes.
Vasily: No papers?
Ramius: No papers. State to state.
- from Hunt for Red October

"Papers, please" has been the catchphrase of the Gestapo agent and the KGB thug for the past 60 years of American pop culture.  Those who do not remember their pop culture are condemned to re-experience it, this time in real life.


For most practical purposes it is used as ID.  Getting a State ID is a major pain if you can't show you Social Security card.  (Some states make you do that even when you're renewing your ID or drivers license)  Either that or you showing your Green Card.

For the purpose of identity theft a person can have access to anyone financial information using social security numbers.  If you've ever seen a Medicare card, the person's social security number of the beneficiary is on there.  So in a way a Social Security number is a national ID.

I have said this before and I will repeat myself, it really pisses me off when people will refuse my Government issued ID card (my retired military card) but will accept my driver's license-which doesn't even have my photo on it as a means of identification. I just don't get it when just about anyone can obtain a driver's license but not everyone can obtain a Gov. ID. And my driver's license only gives me the privilege to drive a car and is NOT, I repeat IS NOT and ID card. I would rather have them us my SSN card as an ID card. Not everyone has a driver's license.



Cat 

I have said this before and I will repeat myself, it really pisses me off when people will refuse my Government issued ID card (my retired military card) but will accept my driver's license-which doesn't even have my photo on it as a means of identification.


I have run into that exact same problem with my Active Duty ID.  Most recently it was when I tried to get a motel room.  The clerk said it was not a real ID, because it did not have my address on it.  I then showed him my Idaho Drivers License, which expired 15 years ago and an address I have never actually lived in (my mom's house), and the guy said it would be fine.  I simply walked away and found another motel that made more sense.

And with each state having a different ID card, it is impossible for somebody to tell if the ID they are presented is real or false.  I have worked at a great many clubs, and would frequently get into arguments with patrons because I would not accept their fake IDs.  Most were from other states, and unless you are familiar with how they look, it is easy to be fooled.

In fact, I have had places refuse my VA ID (issued by the US Government), yet accept everything from my PADI Diving certifiction card to my Sam's Club-COSTCO cards.

I have said this before and I will repeat myself, it really pisses me off when people will refuse my Government issued ID card (my retired military card) but will accept my driver's license-which doesn't even have my photo on it as a means of identification. I just don't get it when just about anyone can obtain a driver's license but not everyone can obtain a Gov. ID. And my driver's license only gives me the privilege to drive a car and is NOT, I repeat IS NOT and ID card. I would rather have them us my SSN card as an ID card. Not everyone has a driver's license.



Cat 


Your state dosen't use a photo ID? :o

Your state dosen't use a photo ID? :o



Do you mean a photo driver's license? (Like I said, a driver's license is NOT an ID.) The new ones do have a photo on it. The old ones do not. You can renew your license through the mail since a photo is NOT required. However, a lot of people are opting to have a photo license since many people use them as IDs. I do not.



Cat

Your state dosen't use a photo ID? :o


I'd imagine Vermont is small enough that it doesn't matter.  Obviously, more measures must be taken in larger states (especially states on the Mexican border).

I'd imagine Vermont is small enough that it doesn't matter.  Obviously, more measures must be taken in larger states (especially states on the Mexican border).

Uh-yuh, I seen you down the general store, so's I knows you're good for it, Caleb!

WTF?  Do you think Vermont is just one big Andy Griffith show?
:D

they dont need id cards because peppridge fahm remembahs!

Hey, I'm a Vermonta and I do what I wanta.


Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!!



Cat

Hey, I'm a Vermonta and I do what I wanta.


Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!!



Cat


As it says on Wikipedia, "No other state has a "largest" city as small as Burlington."  It also gives the population as 608 thousand and change.  I would have guessed 850 thousand. 

We ARE a nation of whiners.



Yes, we are a nation of spoiled whiny little children.  Very few have ever really grown up, and act like it is the job of the "country" to feed and clothe and diaper them for their entire lives.  And to power their bottom and keep the monsters away.

Just so long as they are not required to do anything, pay anything, or think anything.


I think this is a bit over the top.  Yes we do have it good the the U.S. in many ways compared to other countries, but we also have lots of problems.  The problem I have with this approach, though, is the attitude it reveals re government and the people.  To me government isn't the enemy because we ARE the government, or are suppose to be.  There are many things governments at all levels do, and do well, or put another way, things we, as a society do collectively.  The question is always where to draw the  line.  We agree that education is a collective responsibility, which is why I pay school taxes even though all my kids are long out of school.  Certainly national defense is another, as is law and order (which sometimes miscarries to be sure).  Should health care be a collective responsibility?  All the other industrial nations think so.  I just get a bit tired of this "rugged individual" crap.

I think this is a bit over the top.  Yes we do have it good the the U.S. in many ways compared to other countries, but we also have lots of problems.  The problem I have with this approach, though, is the attitude it reveals re government and the people.  To me government isn't the enemy because we ARE the government, or are suppose to be.  There are many things governments at all levels do, and do well, or put another way, things we, as a society do collectively.  The question is always where to draw the  line.  We agree that education is a collective responsibility, which is why I pay school taxes even though all my kids are long out of school.  Certainly national defense is another, as is law and order (which sometimes miscarries to be sure).  Should health care be a collective responsibility?  All the other industrial nations think so.  I just get a bit tired of this "rugged individual" crap.



Well said, My Love.



Cat

I think this is a bit over the top.  Yes we do have it good the the U.S. in many ways compared to other countries, but we also have lots of problems.  The problem I have with this approach, though, is the attitude it reveals re government and the people.  To me government isn't the enemy because we ARE the government, or are suppose to be.  There are many things governments at all levels do, and do well, or put another way, things we, as a society do collectively.  The question is always where to draw the  line.  We agree that education is a collective responsibility, which is why I pay school taxes even though all my kids are long out of school.  Certainly national defense is another, as is law and order (which sometimes miscarries to be sure).  Should health care be a collective responsibility?  All the other industrial nations think so.  I just get a bit tired of this "rugged individual" crap.
props. we actually have a lot less public-sector government than a lot of the european countries that are supposedly less "whiny." i mean for pete's sake, the reason the europeans pay more for gas is because the gas taxes in europe are a lot higher! so we get taxed less, which means we get fewer services, and yet we're whining because we have too much government? it makes no sense.

Whinerism is all relative.  You can find something to whine about at any station in life.  Phil Gramm and his pals whine all the time about capital gains taxes and the minimum wage, whereas most Americans whine about the high price of gasoline and groceries!
:P

Uh-yuh, I seen you down the general store, so's I knows you're good for it, Caleb!

WTF?  Do you think Vermont is just one big Andy Griffith show?
:D


Uh... not really...  If I'm not mistaken, New Hampshire has the same system.

Uh... not really...  If I'm not mistaken, New Hampshire has the same system.


I used to live in NH, and I don't remember them issuing state ID without photo.  Anyway, New Hampshire's a much more right-wing authoritarian place than Vermont, I mean politically speaking.  "The Manchester Union-Leader," talk about undue influence!
::)

Anyway, New Hampshire's a much more right-wing authoritarian place than Vermont, I mean politically speaking. 


Hey, don't blame me.  I actually considered moving there as part of the Free State Project.  But then I realized that anyone who moved to NH and didn't vote for the Elephant Party or the Jackass Party would have accomplished nothing more than (a) having to shovel snow in winter, and (b) getting themselves a ticket to be first against the wall when the time came to clamp down on the Porcupine "Really, Just Leave Me Alone" Party ;)

I'd imagine Vermont is small enough that it doesn't matter.  Obviously, more measures must be taken in larger states (especially states on the Mexican border).


Size has nothing to do with it.  It mostly has to do with regional culture and political makeup.  The more socially conservative the state the more measures they're are in place to insure proper residency.  In Pennsylvania they require you to show your birth certificate when you're getting your first state ID.When they put this in place they're was considerable outcry from elderly people who either had lost their birth certificate or were never issued one.  Those same people were also complaining about how the State Health Department made it impossible to get them if their was any record of it.  PA is one of the most cloistered and paranoid states in the U.S.  Next thing they'll be wanting DNA samples.

It seems to me that McCain is doing a lot of whining this week:

Barack is getting all this media coverage. WAAAAAA. He also has the anchor people from the 3 major networks with him on this trip. WAAAAAA. What about me? WAAAAAAA.



Cat

The third largest bank failure in American history last Friday, and now the Bush administration is promising to support Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

But we're not heading into a recession
We're not heading into a recession. We're heading into a depression. The dollar loses a penny of its value every three weeks. At the current rate, Obama or McCain will be using this worthless currency as toilet paper when they are inaugurated. This isn't conspiracy crap. Its reality.

World War III isn't going to be fought in the name of "democracy", protecting Israel, response to massive terror attack,etc. Its going to be fought over a worthless fiat currency(the US dollar). The dollar has lost half its value this decade already, and in the next couple years no countries will peg theirs against the dollar. Countries are already abandoning it in droves.  Saddam threatened to stop selling oil in dollars. We went to war. Iran saying the same thing, and guess where the war drums are beating now? Meanwhile, we have two unfinished wars waging while getting ready for a possible third.

China is considering dumping its massive dollar reserves. This caused a stir on Wall Street earlier this year, and they denied they were doing it now. If anyone in that Communist regime has a brain, they will be dumping the dollar by next year in order to prop up their own currency, the yuan. The moment China dumps that, a can of pork and beans will cost  around 10 thousand dollars. Not really ten thousand dollars, but what two dollars used to be. This is already happening on a slow scale just by current economic conditions. Anyone who doesn't agree should go to the grocery store. Buy a $3.29 loaf of bread. Next week it'll be higher. Week after that, even higher. Thats not the cost of food going up. Its the dollar rapidly losing its value.

Our country will not even be able to dig itself out of its grave. We sent all our industries to foreign countries. Think they're gonna take monopoly money to rebuild America? Think again. We don't even have the ability to rebuild all these industries here.

All of this is already happening. There is no real "cash flow" in this country. Its all an illusion based on credit and worthless I.O.U.'s. Its why our remaining companies are now selling to foreign bidders.

I chuckle when I happen to watch some news segment and see Obama say "change". He's right. There's gonna be "change", but not the kind of change people are expecting. It also doesn't matter which of them wins the presidency. This isn't a political issue. Its an economic issue out of everyones hands now. The dominoes are falling, and no tax cut by McCain or pie in the sky social program from Obama is gonna make any difference.

Our chickens are coming home to roost, and america is too busy watching reality shows and waiting for the next Britney news to even realize that the rug has already been pulled out from under us.

Hey, don't blame me.  I actually considered moving there as part of the Free State Project.  But then I realized that anyone who moved to NH and didn't vote for the Elephant Party or the Jackass Party would have accomplished nothing more than (a) having to shovel snow in winter, and (b) getting themselves a ticket to be first against the wall when the time came to clamp down on the Porcupine "Really, Just Leave Me Alone" Party ;)

Well, that south-west quadrant of the state become the exurbs of Boston.  You can draw a line from Nashua north to Manchester and east to Portsmouth and you've encompassed 75% of the population.  If you really want the middle-of-nowhere feeling in NH nowadays, I recommend the upper Connecticut Valley and north of the White Mountains.  Stay out of Berlin.  It's a godforsaken rathole.  The remaining paper plants have cleaned up their act, but it's still a godforsaken rathole!
8)

It doesn't snow nearly as much as it used to up there.

We're not heading into a recession. We're heading into a depression. The dollar loses a penny of its value every three weeks. At the current rate, Obama or McCain will be using this worthless currency as toilet paper when they are inaugurated. This isn't conspiracy crap. Its reality.

World War III isn't going to be fought in the name of "democracy", protecting Israel, response to massive terror attack,etc. Its going to be fought over a worthless fiat currency(the US dollar). The dollar has lost half its value this decade already, and in the next couple years no countries will peg theirs against the dollar. Countries are already abandoning it in droves.  Saddam threatened to stop selling oil in dollars. We went to war. Iran saying the same thing, and guess where the war drums are beating now? Meanwhile, we have two unfinished wars waging while getting ready for a possible third.

China is considering dumping its massive dollar reserves. This caused a stir on Wall Street earlier this year, and they denied they were doing it now. If anyone in that Communist regime has a brain, they will be dumping the dollar by next year in order to prop up their own currency, the yuan. The moment China dumps that, a can of pork and beans will cost  around 10 thousand dollars. Not really ten thousand dollars, but what two dollars used to be. This is already happening on a slow scale just by current economic conditions. Anyone who doesn't agree should go to the grocery store. Buy a $3.29 loaf of bread. Next week it'll be higher. Week after that, even higher. Thats not the cost of food going up. Its the dollar rapidly losing its value.

Our country will not even be able to dig itself out of its grave. We sent all our industries to foreign countries. Think they're gonna take monopoly money to rebuild America? Think again. We don't even have the ability to rebuild all these industries here.

All of this is already happening. There is no real "cash flow" in this country. Its all an illusion based on credit and worthless I.O.U.'s. Its why our remaining companies are now selling to foreign bidders.

I chuckle when I happen to watch some news segment and see Obama say "change". He's right. There's gonna be "change", but not the kind of change people are expecting. It also doesn't matter which of them wins the presidency. This isn't a political issue. Its an economic issue out of everyones hands now. The dominoes are falling, and no tax cut by McCain or pie in the sky social program from Obama is gonna make any difference.

Our chickens are coming home to roost, and america is too busy watching reality shows and waiting for the next Britney news to even realize that the rug has already been pulled out from under us.


They can't let it get as bad as you're saying, can they now?  As I always point out, we feel entitled to luxuries on-the-cheap and a liesurely suburban lifestyle.  In 1930 we did not expect to have so much stuff and so much free time to spend playing with it.  Hard work was a fact of life.  This Republic doesn't have the testicular fortitude to make it through another Great Depression!
:o

Not only can it get that bad, it is that bad. There's no turning back. We were morons for shipping all our industries overseas. We basically begged and bought our way into irrelevancy. Hell, look at our auto industry. Its in shambles and even McCain(who admittedly knows nothing about economics) has said its not coming back. He isn't lying, and it was funny when he got blasted for these comments earlier this year. He told the truth, but people would rather hear about "change" instead.

Small town americana is dead. Dead. Its littered in vacant lots, foreclosed homes, closed stores, car dealerships,etc. That also is never coming back. Everyone made sure to kill our retail industry off by saving a nickel at Wal Mart.

Was it worth it?

That nickel you saved is worth 2 cents now.

A nation of whiners?? Hardly. People should be whining at the peak of Mount Everest about the death of our once thriving nation.

We're not heading into a recession. We're heading into a depression. The dollar loses a penny of its value every three weeks. At the current rate, Obama or McCain will be using this worthless currency as toilet paper when they are inaugurated. This isn't conspiracy crap. Its reality.

World War III isn't going to be fought in the name of "democracy", protecting Israel, response to massive terror attack,etc. Its going to be fought over a worthless fiat currency(the US dollar). The dollar has lost half its value this decade already, and in the next couple years no countries will peg theirs against the dollar. Countries are already abandoning it in droves.  Saddam threatened to stop selling oil in dollars. We went to war. Iran saying the same thing, and guess where the war drums are beating now? Meanwhile, we have two unfinished wars waging while getting ready for a possible third.

China is considering dumping its massive dollar reserves. This caused a stir on Wall Street earlier this year, and they denied they were doing it now. If anyone in that Communist regime has a brain, they will be dumping the dollar by next year in order to prop up their own currency, the yuan. The moment China dumps that, a can of pork and beans will cost  around 10 thousand dollars. Not really ten thousand dollars, but what two dollars used to be. This is already happening on a slow scale just by current economic conditions. Anyone who doesn't agree should go to the grocery store. Buy a $3.29 loaf of bread. Next week it'll be higher. Week after that, even higher. Thats not the cost of food going up. Its the dollar rapidly losing its value.

Our country will not even be able to dig itself out of its grave. We sent all our industries to foreign countries. Think they're gonna take monopoly money to rebuild America? Think again. We don't even have the ability to rebuild all these industries here.

All of this is already happening. There is no real "cash flow" in this country. Its all an illusion based on credit and worthless I.O.U.'s. Its why our remaining companies are now selling to foreign bidders.

I chuckle when I happen to watch some news segment and see Obama say "change". He's right. There's gonna be "change", but not the kind of change people are expecting. It also doesn't matter which of them wins the presidency. This isn't a political issue. Its an economic issue out of everyones hands now. The dominoes are falling, and no tax cut by McCain or pie in the sky social program from Obama is gonna make any difference.

Our chickens are coming home to roost, and america is too busy watching reality shows and waiting for the next Britney news to even realize that the rug has already been pulled out from under us.



At least I'm not the only one who thinks we are heading for a depression.



Cat

wow, that's pretty hardcore.

i actually think what we're witnessing is the evaporation of an always-hallucinatory economy we've been indulging in since the 70s or 80s, where we shifted over from a manufacturing to services-and-knowledge-worker economy. and it hasn't actually been all bad, gave us the internet, CGI, a few other things, but now it's all smoke and mirrors, speculative bubbles and so forth. the heritage of this country has always involved hard work and innovation, though, and when we actually do wake up and realize the problems that confront us we will take measures to counteract them, rebuilding domestic manufacturing, localizing and mixed-zoning, economizing. simply because if it takes "testicular fortitude" to engage in hard work, it takes even more "testicular fortitude" to roll over and starve to death. when the suffering becomes physical people get up off their ass and get to work, just because no one wants to just suffer and die. so i dont think it will be as bad as y'all are thinking, it would be if we just drove the car off the cliff but from where i'm sitting it seems like a lot of people are already aware of the problems we face and there are lots of good ideas for ways to ameliorate this.

well, i think that some days. other days i think the human race is on the verge of dying off. basically depends whether it happens to be sunny or cloudy outside, i guess.

the fiat currency thing is funny, everything in the worldwide market is keyed to the dollar and i think it's probably inevitable that the key currency is going to change in the next few years, probably to the euro. it will be an interesting transition when the dollar becomes just another currency and it's like the whole global system is going to need to be reengineered to adjust to the reality that the dollar will no longer be the dominant currency, but as long as america produces things of value the dollar won't completely collapse. right now it's falling from a great height so the rate  of descent is quite rapid and frightening, but the US is still a significant country on the world stage and only domestically devastated countries (through civil war, famine, mass emigration, etc.) suffer real currency collapse. i mean, i'm not an expert, but that's my impression.

unfortunately, we've just experienced eight years of the most devastatingly inept and corrupt "leadership" imaginable, and the discrediting of a craven trickle-down ideology that's been dominant since the 80s, and the consequences of all this tomfoolery are gonna suck big time. but i already have the impression that great people and great ideas are poised to rise to this occasion and this country is gonna end up being better for all this.

it will be an interesting transition
It wont be "interesting". It will be catastrophic. The U.S. will be sold to the lowest bidder(happening now. Don't believe? turn on the news) at a mere fraction of its worth. When you have people like Warren Buffett, Bill Gates,etc. talking about the derivatives market and how its essentially going to destroy life as we know it, why isn't "Joe Public" concerned? Those guys are gazillionaires and know the disaster approaching. Why doesn't the guy(or girl) thousands in debt realize this? The derivatives market is like 600 trillion, and that much money doesn't even exist. Where do those chickens go to roost? They cant just disappear.

Yeah, the Euro will replace the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Very soon I might add. The world isn't gonna sit on a devaluing currency while other currencies rise in value.

Anyone remember Russia in 1992? Thats us, except we don't have any industries to fall back on. We sent all ours to China, India, Mexico, etc.

One hilarious thing about all this is how Wal Mart is now cutting back production on new stores. A supercenter was on the verge of being built a few miles from me. They announced they ditched the plans because current stores aren't making enough money to warrant building more.That massive lot will sit empty for possibly decades. America destroyed small town america and our retail industry(forever) so we could save nickels at Wal Mart. Now that we're heading down the cliff, they are abandoning production here and going to concentrate on destroying other countries retail industries. They're going to accomplish that(easily) because we sent all our industries to China and India so all their crap can be sold cheap and made even cheaper.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

We're such fools.

While the public drools over Britney and watches American Idol, a coffin was quietly being built for us.

the discrediting of a craven trickle-down ideology that's been dominant since the 80sDon't blame Reagan for this mess. The dollar actually peaked on his watch. This crap started during the Clinton presidency with his love of all things NAFTA and us selling our souls to China and third world countries. Bush took it to a new level.

well, i guess we're all gonna die, then. oh, well, sucks for us.

but since it doesn't appear to matter one way or the other anyway, i think i'll continue to try and listen to people who are suggesting solutions.

here's a thought, though -- all the manufacturing we've sent to china is basically so that they can make goods and ship them back to us! so if we can no longer buy their goods or it gets too expensive to ship them halfway across the world, they'll stop exporting them and their manufacturing will suffer. meanwhile, we'll just have to rebuild our domestic manufacturing. probably would be quite a feat but hey, in world war ii we went from an army training with broom handles to the biggest military force in the world in, what, three, four years? we implemented the new deal in only a few years, TVA, IHS, our history is full of massive manufacturing and domestic projects that we've implemented quickly. we're good at that. and as we get our manufacturing back and shore up our infrastructure, the country will get stronger and the dollar will appreciate. the sooner we lay off the ponzi schemes and get back to being a country that actually makes things the better off we'll be but i'm still having trouble going all the way into the doom and gloom scenarios. it seems like someone's been predicting doom (half the time it's me  ;D ) since i've been alive and even if it might be true, seems like if there's any chance of averting it it lies in rolling up our sleeves and dealing.

I don't think we're all gonna die, and everything doesn't have to be "doom and gloom". What IS going to change is the standard of living here, and its not gonna change for the better.

Yeah our industries might be able to be rebuilt eventually, but it wont be overnight and definitely not in time to save us.

China doesn't need us  anymore. Neither does India. We propped them up. If the US doesn't buy their worthless trinkets, they'll just ship it somewhere else. We have massive and unsustainable trade deficits with them. I still don't understand why that was allowed to get so out of control.


Who's suggesting solutions?? Certainly not our presidential candidates. They don't even acknowledge there's a problem. McCain doesn't think there's a recession, and Obama thinks there might be one. They're both clowns just seeking the office.Neither care about anything.

s.

China doesn't need us  anymore. Neither does India. We propped them up. If the US doesn't buy their worthless trinkets, they'll just ship it somewhere else. We have massive and unsustainable trade deficits with them. I still don't understand why that was allowed to get so out of control.



Itwas allowed to get out of control because the people who run the country(the multinationals) don't care about what happens here specifically.  They look a world wide pattern and let the chips(or countries) fall where they may. The people who run the multinationals, you know like bushie senior and his Carlyle Group(wanna talk about selling out?), are making money by walking away from us, if that is what it takes that is what they will do.  Meanwhile the mentality of much of the people is to blame the Mexicans.

Itwas allowed to get out of control because the people who run the country(the multinationals) don't care about what happens here specifically.  They look a world wide pattern and let the chips(or countries) fall where they may. The people who run the multinationals, you know like bushie senior and his Carlyle Group(wanna talk about selling out?), are making money by walking away from us, if that is what it takes that is what they will do.  Meanwhile the mentality of much of the people is to blame the Mexicans.


This is absolutely RIGHT ON.  It has been going on for years starting with the hunt for cheaper or exotic resources, then cheap labor.  Oh, and the multinationals (I prefer "transnationals) are pretty up front about it, admitting they have no loyalty to any country.  Solutions are easy to think up, but hard to put in place because, as many have been saying for years on this board, the transnationals own our politicians (well, not mine but most).  So it is time for change, like taking back our government and transforming our economy into one that serves the interests of working people.

Who's suggesting solutions?? Certainly not our presidential candidates. They don't even acknowledge there's a problem. McCain doesn't think there's a recession, and Obama thinks there might be one. They're both clowns just seeking the office.Neither care about anything.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aZb2vWvXjpY

go up to about 1:20:00 in. or listen to the whole thing, it's hella interesting.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

i've posted this one before.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T40QWrlGRiY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3fz-eSj9kQ4

there's literally hours and hours of this stuff, it's about reengineering the space we live in so we dont fritter away the resources available to us driving too large vehicles too far for too little. i mean, it's funny about the decay in the american standard of living when what do we have now? for most of us we've had wage stagnation and drifting out of the middle class, and that process began a generation ago, it's not beginning now. for those who DO make it, what do they get? McMansions, SUVs, strip malls and TiVo. great. it's a crazy system, and actually most of the people i know who DO have a good "standard of living" dont seem all that happy with it. i mean, who wants to live in a prefab sprawl community where no one knows each other and everyone's competing with their neighbors and you're constantly slaving away to work off debt on a house that's enormous but poorly built, a big-screen t.v. showing, in beautiful resolution, recycled crap you hate watching?

well, the good news is that's gonna change whether we want it or not. it's just not tenable anymore, no matter how much drilling we do. the question is, do we replace sprawl and wal*mart and all that with a society we have some control over? or do we just let it all crumble down around us while we wallow in nostalgia for the good old days when we could live in big houses and isolate ourselves from the world around us? i'm gonna go for the former but it's up in the air how's it's all gonna turn out. but if you're looking for people with suggestions, there's tons. you're right that most of them aren't in government, but this is gonna be largely a bottom-up, not a top-down, operation anyway.

To me government isn't the enemy because we ARE the government, or are suppose to be.  There are many things governments at all levels do, and do well, or put another way, things we, as a society do collectively.  The question is always where to draw the  line.  We agree that education is a collective responsibility, which is why I pay school taxes even though all my kids are long out of school.  Certainly national defense is another, as is law and order (which sometimes miscarries to be sure).  Should health care be a collective responsibility?  All the other industrial nations think so.  I just get a bit tired of this "rugged individual" crap.


This is a great example of why we agree so often.  So often, people forget thta we are the Government.

The US is unique, in which we have a "peacefull revolution" every 4 years.  We are constantly given the opertunity to have a revolution every 4 years (or 2 years), in which we can overthrow our Government and put in new people.  We can totally change the course of affairs, both internal and external by simply walking into a voting booth and pressing a button (or punching a chad).

Yet most do not realize that the "Government" is mostly a large group of "bureau-rats", that will continue to do things the way they want, reguardless of who is in power, and interested in simply keeping their own jobs.  Do any of you really think that the State Department, or the Defense Department (or even the Bureau of Land Management) really cares who is President?  No, they simply wait out the 4-8 years of a Presidential term and continue to largely do what they have always done:  keep their own jobs.

As for the end of your statement, I have always felt it is the job of the Government to take care of people who are seriously ill.  However, I have never felt it is the job of the "Government" to take care of every single ill of everybody in the nation.  That is a Utopian fantasy, and simplydoes not work.  Because of the flood of whiners that will clog the system with hangnails and colds, preventing those with serious ailments (like cancer) from getting the care they need.


We were morons for shipping all our industries overseas.


I still don't see it that way.  Personally, I see the shipping overseas of "Menial Labor" as a good thing.  Let China, India, or Mexico  make cribs, wiring harnesses for cars, and VCR's.  For the last 5-'s years, the US has been the home for innovation.  Let us continue to march towards that goal.  Let some other nation try to pull itself out of the "Third World" by taking advantage of our progress.

You all have to remember, I do no see the International Economy as a "Fixed Sum" economy.  Simply because someobdy else get's rich, that does not mean somebody else gets poor.  There is no fixed amount of Dollars (or Yen, or Euro's or Yuen) out there.  Because I make my $1.5k per month, that does not mean that other people are $1.5k poorer.  When I built computers before I came back in the Military, the $1k I made for building a computer did not mean I was taking $1k out of the mouth of somebody else.  The $800 of that was not taken from me to pay somebody else who kept the profit.  Even the $95 I sento to MicroSoft was not going into the pocket of Bill Gates.

Money is constantly made everywhere.  The $200 I made was not stollen, it was in exchange for my knowledge and experience (and I stood 100% behind my work).  The $95 given to MS mostly went to pay the programmers and development cost of Windows XP (and future upgrades).  While most of the money spent went to overseas companies, they all paid royalties to US companies (like AMD or Intel).  And of the percentage actually sent to countries like China or India, a large percentage came back in the purchase of things like US cars, US computers, US software, and the like.

I see International Trade as a big cycle.  Us shipping "bullpucky" things overseas like "Phone Support" means nothing, because it helps out other nations.  And a big percentage of that will come right back, as the higher standard of living allows them to purchase more US made products.

To me, the only fear of shipping out work to the "third world" comes from people who either think they are inferior people, or xenophobic of a single penny of US currency leaving this country.  And people like that do not realize that the exportation of the US Dollar does nothing but strengthen it.


the fiat currency thing is funny, everything in the worldwide market is keyed to the dollar and i think it's probably inevitable that the key currency is going to change in the next few years, probably to the euro. it will be an interesting transition when the dollar becomes just another currency and it's like the whole global system is going to need to be reengineered to adjust to the reality that the dollar will no longer be the dominant currency, but as long as america produces things of value the dollar won't completely collapse. right now it's falling from a great height so the rate  of descent is quite rapid and frightening, but the US is still a significant country on the world stage and only domestically devastated countries (through civil war, famine, mass emigration, etc.) suffer real currency collapse. i mean, i'm not an expert, but that's my impression.


I posed a trivia question a few months ago, and I don't think anybody was able to answer it correctly.  Here is pretty much what it was:

What do Panama, El Salvador, Ecuador, British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, Bahamas, Lebanon, Argentina (until 2002), Hong Kong, and Belarus have in common?

They all either use the US Dollar as their official currency, or have their currency directly tied in with the US Dollar in international exchange rates.  This is why the 1989 embargo of US Currency to Panama crippled their economy.  While Panama has it's own currency, they only mint coins (actually minted by the US Government - the ¼ Balboa is the exact size and weight of a US Quarter) and they have the exact value of their US counterparts.  So if the US economy actually crashed, it would probably bring about another Global Depression. 

However, even I doubt that would happen, because the Great Depression was a rather unique event in world history.  To have a repeat, Europe, Asia, and most of the world would have to sink to that level first.  And I simply do not see that happening.  And as has been seen in the last year, the decreasing of the value of the US Dollar simply increases our exports.  And with the increased cost of imports, it increses demand internally of our own products.

A Depression is when there is a lack of money, and nobody (or nation) buys anything.  That is hardly the case now, as much as "doom and gloom" people would like you to think.

Mushroom makes some interesting points, although there are a few areas I have problems with.  Yes, a devalued $$$ increases our exports, but what are we exporting?  What are we importing?  We use to export mostly manufactured goods and imported raw materials, so we were exporting value added.  But our manufacturing has declined, or rather has been exported.  You can say that these were menial jobs but they often paid good wages.  They were the "middle" jobs really, between the menial and the white collar.  Gary Wills wrote, in his book Nixon Agenisties that "The center can not hold", it was a recurring theme.  Well, the job center has not held and so the gains made by labor since the '30s have been wiped out and we are heading back to a society that looks like the 19th century, with a few very rich astride masses of poor, white, black and brown. 

I do agree, though, that economics is not a zero sum game, but as Adam Smith recognised so long ago (1776 to be exact) productivity is the road to prosperity, it determines the wealth of nations.  So by exporting our productivity, we contribute to the wealth of other nations.

And I don't call any labor "menial."

Mushroom makes some interesting points, although there are a few areas I have problems with.  Yes, a devalued $$$ increases our exports, but what are we exporting?  What are we importing?  We use to export mostly manufactured goods and imported raw materials, so we were exporting value added.  But our manufacturing has declined, or rather has been exported.  You can say that these were menial jobs but they often paid good wages. 


I will give you an example of what I mean when I talk about exporting jobs.

Jst south of me in Juarez, the economy has been booming because of the export of manufacturing jobs.  One of the biggest things made are wiring harnesses.  The laborers take iles of wire and run it along pegs on a board, then cover it with tape.  These are then sent to the US where they are put into our automobiles.  It takes about an hour for a worker to make one wiring harness for a car, and it is done by hand.  By sending the jobs there, it helps strengthen the Mexican economy.

Which by the way a lot comes right back here.  You would not believethe number of cars I see on the weekends at the mall or WallMart with Mexico license plates.  A lot are even paid in the US dollar by choice, since it is stronger and more stable then the Peso.

And the parts are made for a lot less then if they were made here in the US.  But the money for them comes back to this country, since they are put in US cars, which are then sold (or exported).  The cars are still made here, just some of the parts are not.

Mostly what we still export is technical goods.  Even if made overseas, the companies that sell them are US owned and operated.  The money spent in R&D is still spent here at home.  The resaon our imports are so high is because people often want cheap things.  And most US companies can't afford to manufacture in the US anymore.

Even Levi's are all made outside of the US.  The last plant here closed years ago because nobody is willing to pay $50 for a pair of regular jeans.  And that is what they would have had to sell them for to make any kind of profit.  So instead we buy them for $30 made in Indonesia, and bitch about how nothing is made here anymore.

So the next time you are looking to buy something, get the more expensive US made item.  Otherwise, you are onl contributing to the export of US jobs.  Because the ultimate decision to export comes not from the corporations, but by the consumer.  If people really cared about US Made, they would shop that way.  But they do not.  Instead of getting a good US made crib that costs $100, they get one from COSCO that costs 1/2 that (or less).

On the one hand, you've got what people want: Made in the U.S.A.
On the other, you've got what people can afford: Made in Indonesia.

If you're on a tight budget, and most Americans are these days, you will purchase the cheaper imported good blue jeans from the Gap (or WalMart), even if you woul rather buy high-end American-made blue jeans from a boutique.

Bumper stickers such as "I don't shop at sprawl-marts" and "Buy Locally" are exceedingly popular with the yuppie-types around here, but this just presumes everybody can pick and choose.
::)

On the one hand, you've got what people want: Made in the U.S.A.
On the other, you've got what people can afford: Made in Indonesia.

If you're on a tight budget, and most Americans are these days, you will purchase the cheaper imported good blue jeans from the Gap (or WalMart), even if you woul rather buy high-end American-made blue jeans from a boutique.

Bumper stickers such as "I don't shop at sprawl-marts" and "Buy Locally" are exceedingly popular with the yuppie-types around here, but this just presumes everybody can pick and choose.
::)
as fuel prices keep rising, though, the import economy is probably not going to keep being as competitive as it is now. domestic production will go up and the price of domestic-made goods will go down once you start seeing some economies of scale... hopefully. of course, the flip side of it is that buying cheap imported goods is penny wise and dollar foolish a lot of times, since they're not well QCed so a lot of times you end up replacing whatever good you buy over and over instead of buying it once and using it for years. then again, in america they don't seem to be much into QCing the way they used to either, so what we might end up seeing is the manufacture of cheap crap here instead of shipping cheap crap 9000 miles.

as fuel prices keep rising, though, the import economy is probably not going to keep being as competitive as it is now. domestic production will go up and the price of domestic-made goods will go down once you start seeing some economies of scale... hopefully. of course, the flip side of it is that buying cheap imported goods is penny wise and dollar foolish a lot of times, since they're not well QCed so a lot of times you end up replacing whatever good you buy over and over instead of buying it once and using it for years. then again, in america they don't seem to be much into QCing the way they used to either, so what we might end up seeing is the manufacture of cheap crap here instead of shipping cheap crap 9000 miles.


Good points.  As fo penny wise pound foolish, a lot of consumers simply don't have the cash on hand to buy the quality goods in the first place.  It's like the people who wil buy a home entertainment center on time at a ridiculous interest rate.  They will pay three times the sticker price by the end of the payment plan.
::)

On the one hand, you've got what people want: Made in the U.S.A.
On the other, you've got what people can afford: Made in Indonesia.

If you're on a tight budget, and most Americans are these days, you will purchase the cheaper imported good blue jeans from the Gap (or WalMart), even if you would rather buy high-end American-made blue jeans from a boutique.

Bumper stickers such as "I don't shop at sprawl-marts" and "Buy Locally" are exceedingly popular with the yuppie-types around here, but this just presumes everybody can pick and choose.
::)


I don't go for this.  Yes, Americans are on tight budgets, but you will find too many tight budgets with SUVs and cable TV(or dish or whatever) to take that seriously when entering a parking lot.  We are a nation of overspenders.  I don't buy the cheaper imported good blue jeans, never enter the Gap or Walmart, but I don't buy high end American blue jeans from a boutique either. My budget is tight, so I buy accordingly, with a  pro labor conscience.

I don't go for this.  Yes, Americans are on tight budgets, but you will find too many tight budgets with SUVs and cable TV(or dish or whatever) to take that seriously when entering a parking lot.  We are a nation of overspenders.  I don't buy the cheaper imported good blue jeans, never enter the Gap or Walmart, but I don't buy high end American blue jeans from a boutique either. My budget is tight, so I buy accordingly, with a  pro labor conscience.

I most definitely agree with your point about overspending.  It also occurs to me I'm not the one to lecture anybody on personal finance!
:-[

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - With a record volume of international takeovers of U.S. companies, it almost appears America itself is up for sale.

The weak dollar and slumping stock prices of U.S. companies has created a window of opportunity for international buyers to snatch up American icons such as beer brewer Anheuser-Busch Cos Inc (BUD.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and the landmark Chrysler Building in New York.

"The dollar has depreciated so much that America is on the sale rack," said Sung Won Sohn, a professor of economics at California State University.

"America has such an appetite for foreign goods -- Chinese imports and oil -- that U.S. dollars have gone overseas. Now, many Americans aren't happy that foreign companies are buying pieces of America with the money we gave them in the first place," Sohn said.

In the second quarter, acquisitions of U.S. companies by international buyers totaled $124.3 billion, marking the highest total for any second quarter on record and jumping 23 percent over the year-earlier quarter, according to research firm Dealogic.

International takeovers represented 22 percent of all U.S. merger activity in the first half of the year, up from 17 percent in the first half of 2007, according to research firm Dealogic.

InBev NV's (INTB.BR: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) deal to acquire Anheuser-Busch for $52 billion gave Belgium the distinction of being the most active foreign buyer of U.S. assets in the first half of this year, followed by Spain and Canada, Dealogic said.

The Anheuser-Busch deal ranked as the second-biggest cross-border acquisition of a U.S. company in history, following Vodafone Group Plc's (VOD.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) $60.3 billion acquisition of AirTouch Communications in 1999, according to Thomson Reuters.

Other U.S. assets recently falling into international hands include Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc (BRL.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), which agreed to be acquired by Israel's Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd (TEVA.O: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) (TEVA.TA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), the world's largest generic drug company, for $7.46 billion; and eye care company Alcon Inc (ACL.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) which is being bought by Switzerland's Novartis AG (NOVN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) for about $27.7 billion.

Earlier this month, Swiss drugmaker Roche AG (ROG.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) made a bid to acquire the shares of its U.S. partner Genentech Inc (DNA.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) it does not already own for $43.7 billion. Even the Pennsylvania Turnpike awarded long-term leasing rights to a Spanish-led investor group for $12.8 billion.

MORE THAN JUST A WEAK DOLLAR

Although some investment bankers and analyst pin the spike in cross-border activity to the weak dollar, others contend that strategy and the desire to expand globally were the motivators behind many of these recent corporate deals.

"Strategic buyers don't wake up in the morning and say: 'This currency is cheap. I'm going to go do a deal.' They do a deal because it's strategic and makes sense," said Herald Ritch, president and co-chief executive officer of investment bank Sagent Advisers.

"There's no question that, on the margin, currency levels tend to influence decisions, but strategic deals get done because they fit a company's strategy," Ritch said.

European companies have been the most active buyers of U.S. assets, with 314 deals so far this year, compared with 117 deals by Asian acquirers, and 33 by African and Middle Eastern buyers, according to Thomson Reuters.

"Europe and the U.S. dominate deal activity globally, so it makes sense that deals between those areas would predominate," Ritch said.

Although some investment bankers view the second quarter's record pace of U.S. takeovers as an anomaly, Sohn said the 13-percent depreciation of the dollar against major currencies over the past 18 months should fuel more acquisitions.

"There are trillions of dollars overseas that have to be put to work. This is just the tip of the iceberg," Sohn said.

Oh, we've got total kleptocracy here!  Bush, Cheney, and Rove are just common thugs with college degrees and nice suits!  This isn't just bookmaking and stealing stuff from the dock anymore.  Our whole economy has been sold out and we're left here to rot.  They stole it all.  Bastards took everything!
>:(

I quote my stepbrother and he's a wryly perverse SOB:

"When the whining stops, the hitting begins!"

So youse guys just hope we keep whining over there!

Can I have some cheese with my whine? ;D

Oh, we've got total kleptocracy here!  Bush, Cheney, and Rove are just common thugs with college degrees and nice suits!  This isn't just bookmaking and stealing stuff from the dock anymore.  Our whole economy has been sold out and we're left here to rot.  They stole it all.  Bastards took everything!
>:(

I quote my stepbrother and he's a wryly perverse SOB:

"When the whining stops, the hitting begins!"

So youse guys just hope we keep whining over there!



One of the few reasons why I stopped going to school after Community College.

I have enough knowledge to live my damn life!

Besides, I know someone who acts like a blonde (but isn't) and she goes to a University for her Master's.