http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kag0bBJVkIw

The media is now dumping on General Clark because he said that getting shot down in a fighter plane doesn't in itself make a person qualified to be president.

Clark was not attacking McCain's service to our country nor his bravery in the face of injuries incurred in the armed forces and wartime imprisonment in Vietnam. 

Clark implied it is time to separate the heroism of McCain's past and question his fitness for the presidency in the near future. 

We would all agree a bystander who jumps in the lake and saves a child from drowning is a "hero," but does that qualify him to run an emergency room?

I don't blame Obama for distancing himself from Clark's remarks because the American media is too immature to understand them.
::)

what if, instead of distancing himself from clark, obama had clarified his remarks? he should have gone on the offensive, they can't be afraid to whittle away at mccain's military record. it's common practice in politics now.

what if, instead of distancing himself from clark, obama had clarified his remarks? he should have gone on the offensive, they can't be afraid to whittle away at mccain's military record. it's common practice in politics now.

I don't think they should whittle away at McCain's military record.  That reminds me of the swiftboaters.  I just think don't think we should automatically conflate heroism in one sphere as qualification for leadership in another.  Let McCain bask his bravery of 40 years ago until the day he dies.  He earned it.  Now he's running for president, so let's talk about his record as a politician...or is there a problem with that?
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I don't think they should whittle away at McCain's military record.  That reminds me of the swiftboaters.  I just think don't think we should automatically conflate heroism in one sphere as qualification for leadership in another.  Let McCain bask his bravery of 40 years ago until the day he dies.  He earned it.  Now he's running for president, so let's talk about his record as a politician...or is there a problem with that?
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eh, you're more fair-minded than me. wallow shamelessly in the filth, i say! accuse the republicans of being VC collaborators! i guess that's unwise, though.  :(

Would be very hard to "whittle away" at McCain's record.  He is indisputably a hero, spent what... 7 years in captivity and horrendous conditions and held up one hell of alot better than any of us would.  What next?  Call him a "gimp" because of his gait due to the war injuries?

Clark was completely out of line.  Besides, when he made all the statements of what McCain "did not do" while in the service, Bob Schieffer rightfully pointed out that it was one hell of lot more than Obama's military experience... which is zero (I am not knocking Obama here).

Clark's coments only served to HURT Obama's cause.  But then Clark has almost always been more about getting himself in the limelight than he has been, really, for any given candidate.  And in a hand-to-hand battle, I strongly suspect that McCain could summarily kick his ass.

Side note, I think Obama handled the comments correctly, as they could produce nothing of positive value for the Obama campaign.

Would be very hard to "whittle away" at McCain's record.  He is indisputably a hero, spent what... 7 years in captivity and horrendous conditions and held up one hell of alot better than any of us would.  What next?  Call him a "gimp" because of his gait due to the war injuries?

Clark was completely out of line.  Besides, when he made all the statements of what McCain "did not do" while in the service, Bob Schieffer rightfully pointed out that it was one hell of lot more than Obama's military experience... which is zero (I am not knocking Obama here).

Clark's coments only served to HURT Obama's cause.  But then Clark has almost always been more about getting himself in the limelight than he has been, really, for any given candidate.  And in a hand-to-hand battle, I strongly suspect that McCain could summarily kick his ass.

Side note, I think Obama handled the comments correctly, as they could produce nothing of positive value for the Obama campaign.
well, wasn't clark actually saying that mccain's record, though ostensibly commendable, actually was too low-level to really give him any expertise to run as a wartime president? i mean, what did he learn about geopolitical strategy? he was a pilot.

the distinction seems plain enough that the obfuscation of it to try and misinterpret clark as saying that mccain's record shouldn't be honored seems deliberate. and after kerry in 2004, do we really respect military records anymore? it certainly doesn't seem that way. what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if kerry got shat all over for serving, i see no reason why mccain should get a free pass.

Obama isn't suffering from the delusion that he was in the armed forces when he wasn't, that was Bedtime-for-Ronzo.  McCain's campaign is a thin soup so they're trying to beef it up by emphasizing the candidate's war record.  Military heroism is good for the flavor of the campaign but let's not confuse it with substance. 

well, wasn't clark actually saying that mccain's record, though ostensibly commendable, actually was too low-level to really give him any expertise to run as a wartime president? i mean, what did he learn about geopolitical strategy? he was a pilot.

the distinction seems plain enough that the obfuscation of it to try and misinterpret clark as saying that mccain's record shouldn't be honored seems deliberate. and after kerry in 2004, do we really respect military records anymore? it certainly doesn't seem that way. what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if kerry got shat all over for serving, i see no reason why mccain should get a free pass.


First off, McCain was quite vocal back in 2004 when the "Swift Boat" stuff was going on, and he was strongly opposed to such tactics.  And before we all pile on the Republicans about questioning the service records of Dems, let us not forget how it came to be that Dan Rather lost his job anchoring the CBS News.

My problem with Clark is the glib style in which he made his comment. "Getting shot out of a plane is no qualification to be President".  Very bad form.  But it certainly gives McCain an edge up on Obama in understanding the conseqences of war and what it means up front and close.

And... in the end... the criticisms of McCain regarding his service record really end up drawing a bigger contrast between he and Obama... because Obama did not serve at all.  And so Clark's overall comments served to HURT Obama and not HELP him.

As to Clark's own service record I shall not comment.  You can learn plenty about it on the web and draw your ow comparisons.

It's like old Harry Truman used to say, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."  McCain and his people decided to run him as a war hero.  Wes Clark was blunt but certainly not abusive.

It's like old Harry Truman used to say, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."  McCain and his people decided to run him as a war hero.  Wes Clark was blunt but certainly not abusive.


I don't think you saw McCain running out of the kitchen.  Instead we saw Clark look small, and Obama look awkward thanks to Clark.  My guess is if you asked McCain in private, he'd probably say "Hey I am glad Clark made those remarks, helped my campaign!"  ;D

And Schieffer actually came across as quite classy...

My problem with Clark is the glib style in which he made his comment. "Getting shot out of a plane is no qualification to be President".  Very bad form.  But it certainly gives McCain an edge up on Obama in understanding the conseqences of war and what it means up front and close.

And... in the end... the criticisms of McCain regarding his service record really end up drawing a bigger contrast between he and Obama... because Obama did not serve at all.  And so Clark's overall comments served to HURT Obama and not HELP him.

the getting-shot-out-of-a-plane thing did make me wince a bit, but in the broader context of what he was saying it was plain he didn't mean to be flip about what mccain went through.

as for obama not serving at all, he never ran on serving. mccain's campaign is pretty much predicated on how he was a POW. which is more or less how kerry ran his campaign, too, all about serving in the military. the current crop in office under bush shows that having a military record isn't a prerequisite for serving, since none of those guys served -- bush appears to have gotten closest, but he was actually dodging the draft!  ;D and yet they won over someone with a bona fide military record in 2004, and did so claiming to be a wartime administration! quite an amazing feat.

but the point i was trying to make is that i think mccain's focus on war might backfire, since obama's been running on being a smart civilian who will focus on domestic policy. i think people are pretty hungry for that. obama's not serving might end up being an asset, as i think it was when clinton won in 1992 after the first gulf war had led to a recession and people voted for draft-dodgin' bill over WWII vet bush sr.

Here's my take...  Clark is a fool, but so is McCain.

Then again, Clark is correct about McCain.

Finally...  there is a form of political correctness that the Right entertains...  It's called patriotism.

And I have absolutely no problem with chipping away at McCain's record, since one of his campaign managers was part of the Swift Boat bs that slandered Kerry.  In short, McCain associates with slanderers, so it's about time he got some coming back at him.

Then again, Obama did the politically smart thing, since defending someone who makes an unpatriotic remark is like defending Don Imus on issues of race.  What Clark said was no worse than what the Swift Boaters said about Kerry, and what Imus said about Rutgers's b-ball team is no worse than what most rappers say about women in just about every song.

It would be nice if people grew a thicker skin about things, but it would appear even soldiers have soft spots.

Clark's point is stil salient and if we can't handle bluntness, we're a nation of wussies.

Call me crazy, but I thought the whole point was to capture the enemy? Anybody could get captured, sounds like McCain sat out the war.



(10 points to whoever points out who I'm ripping off first!)