He gave me autism, he won't let me handle a lot of responsibilities, and I go to church and get nothing.

Is there a better religion than this? I'll even take atheism.

read seneca's "on the shortness of life." you can get it used for 11 cents, can't beat that!

http://www.amazon.com/Shortness-Life-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036327

here's seneca, in a shortened comic-strip version.

http://www.joshreads.com/images/0408/i040811rexmorgan.gif

I do know how you feel to an extent. My life in general seems to usually be on a track to nowhere. It seems that no matter how hard I try to accomplish things...they never work out. It is discouraging when I see others (which some of these people are just downright rotten) advancing in life and getting to do the things that they desire. For example, I am not a well off person, I have a ton of bills and a crap job. I would LOVE to be able to go back and finish college, but I don't have that kind of money. I have tons of debt that I haven't even been able to pay on in years. It seems like it is one thing after another. Then...about 3 weeks ago, I found out that my boss from work (who is not a friendly person at all. He's downright mean most of the time, treats people poorly...and IMO, just isn't a very nice person) won $100,000 on a scratch off lottery ticket. THESE are the types of things that upset me so much. You often have the mindset of, "why do good things happen to bad people?"...and I wish I knew the answer.

I am a Christian, but believe me..I can't tell you how many times I have thought that I have been abandoned by God. I have even muttered the statement, "And then the heavens opened up and God made me his public toilet"....it's so true. I feel so often that I try to be a great person, I go to church, I do the "right" things, I live my life in an honorable kind of way...it's like, "what more should I be doing?".

I can feel your frustration...I truly can. I am sorry that you feel this way. It's horrlble to feel that you are alone, and no matter what you do...never amounts to anything at all.

I wish I could offer you better advice....here's a "hug" to make you feel better and let you know that you are not alone. :)

No offense, but this is why I'm an atheist.  I don't blame God for anything - good or bad.  Do you really think if there were a god, he'd just be throwing stuff at you to see how much you could handle?  To make you rely on Him at your weakest and earn your way into heaven?  I think if there was a god, he'd have his hands full with other things.  (and that's not to say that you're not important).

The unfortunate truth is that happiness is a fleeting state of being, as is sorrow, but everyone assumes life should just be happy and that if it isn't, somebody/something is to blame.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear that you both are having a hard go of it, but hang in there.  Things do get better (and then they get bad again, and then they get better, etc...)

I am a Christian, but believe me..I can't tell you how many times I have thought that I have been abandoned by God. I have even muttered the statement, "And then the heavens opened up and God made me his public toilet"....it's so true. I feel so often that I try to be a great person, I go to church, I do the "right" things, I live my life in an honorable kind of way...it's like, "what more should I be doing?".


I'm also a Christian but have felt this as well before at times.  I've been mad at God before, but it's not right, we need to keep trusting in him.  A lot of times, when I start feeling like this, there'll be something good that happens just around the corner.  Just stay strong and don't give up.  *Hugs for both of you as well*  :)

I'm also a Christian but have felt this as well before at times.  I've been mad at God before, but it's not right, we need to keep trusting in him.  A lot of times, when I start feeling like this, there'll be something good that happens just around the corner.  Just stay strong and don't give up.  *Hugs for both of you as well*  :)


thanks for the encouraging words Audrey. :)

Ever read the story of Job?  I'm not religious, don't pray etc. so when bad things happen to me I just put it down to the way life is.  Sometimes it s**ks and sometimes its good.  Ya just gotta expect both.  But then, if everything was always good, we wouldn't appreciate it.  Sorry you all are having a bad spell.  Hope things get better.

Ever read the story of Job?  I'm not religious, don't pray etc. so when bad things happen to me I just put it down to the way life is.  Sometimes it s**ks and sometimes its good.  Ya just gotta expect both.  But then, if everything was always good, we wouldn't appreciate it.  Sorry you all are having a bad spell.  Hope things get better.

So true. I hate to use the cliche 'One Day At A Time' but that's how one basically has to live ones life.God does not control your life,you do,you have to do the best you can with what you are given and the resources around you.
This is a link to famous people with different types of autism..I hope it gives you some inspiration.
http://www.child-autism-parent-cafe.com/famous-people-with-autism.html#1 People with unspecified forms of autism
This boy grew up about 40 miles from where I live.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_McElwain

He gave me autism, he won't let me handle a lot of responsibilities, and I go to church and get nothing.

Is there a better religion than this? I'll even take atheism.


A lot of great stuff here.  I have lots of problems and I am some sort of mix between Christianity and other things.  It has nothing to do with religion it's just live.  Have a hug from someone that lives of of giving people hugs. 
http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/donmclean129.shtml

Ever read the story of Job?


Job's probably the best book in the Bible.  Nice guy gets reamed out in every orifice as a result of a cosmic bar bet.  Then has to put up with even more crap from his self-righteous friends who play blame-the-victim.  Finally snaps, loses it, and gets a clue-by-four upside the head from the guy upstairs in the form of a science quiz.

Now for a bunch of hairless apes, we're pretty clever, and in the thousands of years since the story was written, most undergraduate physics students could provide meaningful answers for most of God's rhetorical questions.  So you'd have to update some of the questions like "Canst thou reconcile quantum chromodynamics with general relativity", and "From whence cometh mass?  Canst thou call up the Higgs Boson?" (although with any luck, CERN'll let us cross that one off the list in a few months) and it wouldn't be nearly as poetic, but it would still come down to the point that the Problem of Evil ("Why do bad things happen... especially to me?") is something that won't be solved we figure out how to derive the entire universe from first principles. 

This concludes the sermon; let us turn now in our hymnals to Poodle Hat, Track Eight:  Weird Al Yankovic (w/Ben Folds), Why Does This Always Happen To Me?

He gave me autism, he won't let me handle a lot of responsibilities, and I go to church and get nothing.

Is there a better religion than this? I'll even take atheism.

Join the Church of Satan.  Satan puts YOU first and he doesn't waste his time with the poor, the weak, and the stupid like Jesus does!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/diablotin.gif

Reminds me of the movie 'Commandments' starring Aidan Quinn.  It was about a man who thought God was against him, so in order to get revenge, he decidesto break all the 10 commandments.  Though I wouldn't go that route if I were you

Sometimes life can be unfair.  I have no religion, and I sometimes wonder if that is the cause for all the bad things that have happened to me in my life.  Probably not, but I just need something to blame so I can feel better LOL

Reminds me of the movie 'Commandments' starring Aidan Quinn.  It was about a man who thought God was against him, so in order to get revenge, he decidesto break all the 10 commandments.  Though I wouldn't go that route if I were you

Sometimes life can be unfair.  I have no religion, and I sometimes wonder if that is the cause for all the bad things that have happened to me in my life.  Probably not, but I just need something to blame so I can feel better LOL


Blame Dubya. I do all the time.

Blame Dubya. I do all the time.


If I lived in the US, I definately would ;D

If I lived in the US, I definately would ;D


Nah, you can blame him if you live outside the US. He's caused enough crap in the world that anyone can blame him. ;D

Nah, you can blame him if you live outside the US. He's caused enough crap in the world that anyone can blame him. ;D


I s'pose youre right ;D

Dubya's caused so much grief for the States, it perhaps rubs off on Stephen Harper, Gordon Brown and any other leader of a country.  Damn you Dubya, damn you to hell LOL

If I lived in the US, I definately would ;D


That doesn't stop anybody.  There are lots of people in the mid east that blame him. ;D

I have to add, professional help....helps

I have to add, professional help....helps


And is often available either for free or at a low cost. 

Blame Dubya. I do all the time.


I do, once in awhile. But that's too damn easy.

Join the Church of Satan.  Satan puts YOU first and he doesn't waste his time with the poor, the weak, and the stupid like Jesus does!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/diablotin.gif


If what you're stating is true than why are most Conservative Republicans Christians?  Don't they also consider people who want to "socialize" medicine and make sure that inner city schools are subsidized to be Demon spawn?

If what you're stating is true than why are most Conservative Republicans Christians?  Don't they also consider people who want to "socialize" medicine and make sure that inner city schools are subsidized to be Demon spawn?

They seem to like the good vs. evil part of Christianity.  Otherwise, the religion hasn't much to offer the rich and greedy.  If religion is about keeping balance in the universe, like in Eastern philosophies, it gets to abstract, harder to get the masses fired up about active and passive principals governing the universe.  Heaven and Hell has much more zest!
::)

If what you're stating is true than why are most Conservative Republicans Christians? 


Same reason the Catholic priests got away with their abuses for so long.  And Jim Jones.  And Blubbard, Moon, Farrakhan, the Wahabbists, and their ultra-orthodox correspondents in Judaism, Koresh, the FLDS...

Where's the last place you'd expect to find the Devil?  In Church.

If you ever meet the Buddha in the road, kill him.  That's a little radical, the Buddhists have a pretty good point.  The more you're convinced that you've personally met the earthly incarnation of the divine, the more likely it is that you're wrong - that you've merely met a cheap pretender, or at worst, a total fraud - and the better off you are ignoring everything he says.

Personally, I like the Church of the SubGenius, which is a non-prophet irreligious disorganization.  It's genuine wisdom masquerading as complete bullshiat.  (Or is it the other way around?  Or is there even a difference?)  We're not sure, because we follow the teachings of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, whose only claim to fame is that he's the greatest Salesman the universe has ever seen.  He's not smart.  He's not wise.  He's not even a particularly good Salesman.  He's just a really, really lucky Salesman.

God, to me, gives you what you need, not what you want. Unfortunately, there are many who feel that if they don't get what they want, somehow God has abandoned them.

Are you still here? Yes. Could your life be hell of a lot worse than it is? Yes.

Do something about it. Stop thinking that God has forsaken you. Self-pity doesn't help you to progress. It only hinders you.

Do I blame God for my bipolarity? No. I live with it. I deal with it. It doesn't stop me from accomplishments (and I have made most of them unmedicated).

So, there you go.

He gave me autism, he won't let me handle a lot of responsibilities, and I go to church and get nothing.

Is there a better religion than this? I'll even take atheism.


Sorry that things are not working out for you right now...

Atheism isn't a religion, but you're interested in window shopping other beliefs and you've got a few free hours, I'd recommend checking out this site:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/index.htm

(as well as sites on Buddhism, Wicca, etc - I'm not interesting in 'converting' you, just would like you to get satisfactory answers to your questions)

Ant

I do, once in awhile. But that's too damn easy.


Someone at my Church blamed Global Warming.

Well...It's either Bush or Global Warming.

But now I feel better because I prayed for my grandma and she's feeling better right now.

I often feel like I have a rain cloud over my shoulder, sort of like a star of misfortune has influence over my chances in life, although I don't feel it's the work of a god.

Maybe I need to eat some luck seeds(Dragon Quest reference). :D

Same reason the Catholic priests got away with their abuses for so long.  And Jim Jones.  And Blubbard, Moon, Farrakhan, the Wahabbists, and their ultra-orthodox correspondents in Judaism, Koresh, the FLDS...



Wascally Wahabbists!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/BUNNY.gif

Same reason the Catholic priests got away with their abuses for so long.  And Jim Jones.  And Blubbard, Moon, Farrakhan, the Wahabbists, and their ultra-orthodox correspondents in Judaism, Koresh, the FLDS...

Where's the last place you'd expect to find the Devil?  In Church.

If you ever meet the Buddha in the road, kill him.  That's a little radical, the Buddhists have a pretty good point.  The more you're convinced that you've personally met the earthly incarnation of the divine, the more likely it is that you're wrong - that you've merely met a cheap pretender, or at worst, a total fraud - and the better off you are ignoring everything he says.

Personally, I like the Church of the SubGenius, which is a non-prophet irreligious disorganization.  It's genuine wisdom masquerading as complete bullshiat.  (Or is it the other way around?  Or is there even a difference?)  We're not sure, because we follow the teachings of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, whose only claim to fame is that he's the greatest Salesman the universe has ever seen.  He's not smart.  He's not wise.  He's not even a particularly good Salesman.  He's just a really, really lucky Salesman.


How very true.  Most would probably tell you in private that religion is a business too.  Big business.  Not only that I find it so appalling that if the average church member sins they payment/penance equals their first born.  However if clergy sins what happens . . . they scream "I have sinned" and hope it all goes away and people still give generously.

BTW ever read The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis?  I think this is discussed.

I've posted my views on this one before at some length.  Yeah, I wonder where 'God' was .... on 911 ? Taking a 'tea break'    ::)

I just find it amazing that people still pray to him / worship god etc even after events such as this. Their 'faith' ........ is unshakeable (well, for many). No amount of 'evidence' / reasoning to the contrary can alter their indoctrination / brainwashing. It's a bit like a pseudoscience to me ..... something that is unfalsifiable is useless. You might as well believe in the 'Tooth fairy' ... or a rabbits foot !  ::)  :P


God 'moves in mysterious ways'  ::)  .... 'ours is not to reason why .... ours is but to do or die !'  8-P    ;D

Whilst it's true science doesn't have ALL the answers now .......... I'm sure we'll have a lot more answers about the TRUE nature / cause of the universe, in centuries to come  (if we haven't all met some unhappy fate). Of course, none of us will be around for that !  :(

He gave me autism, he won't let me handle a lot of responsibilities, and I go to church and get nothing.

Is there a better religion than this? I'll even take atheism.

Pretty much what Red Ant said: atheism isn't a religion as an option when you think God is against you... it's a realization that the bad things (and the good) in life do not come from any kind of deity, that they cannot because there is no deity there; atheism doesn't have any feel-good homilies to help in times of trouble, 'cause by itself it doesn't mean anything other than "I reckon there's no gods out there".


BTW ever read The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis?  I think this is discussed.

I was chatting to the vicar about this recently - he tells me that the theology is very sound.  This kind of surprised me, as I took it as a major mickey-take (though maybe not, as it's CS Lewis.. it could just be Andy Hamilton's take on this that makes it so funny).  You may be able to listen again on the BBC website - Andy Hamilton's radio dramatization of this is absolutely fantastic.

Our Founding Fathers were deists and would tell you that God is not your babysitter.
::)

How very true.  Most would probably tell you in private that religion is a business too.  Big business.  Not only that I find it so appalling that if the average church member sins they payment/penance equals their first born.  However if clergy sins what happens . . . they scream "I have sinned" and hope it all goes away and people still give generously.

BTW ever read The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis?  I think this is discussed.


Yup.  Enjoyed it thoroughly. 

For those who haven't, the premise is that you've come across the internal (or is that infernal) correspondence of Hell.  Specifically, letters between Screwtape and Wormwood, who are two demons out to wreak havoc on the world. 

You don't have to be a theologian (or even a believer) to enjoy it.  Think of it as science fiction/fantasy.  Change the names around, and it could just as easily have been a Babylon 5 (Shadows vs. Vorlons) or a Stargate SG-1 (Ori vs. Ascended Ancients) plot arc.

My favorite C.S. Lewis quote, however, is this one:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock (1948)

There's no correlation between religiosity and sanctimony. 

The guy who uses "it's your fair share" or "think of the children", or even "it's for the environment" as an excuse to take things away from you is every bit as sanctamonious a twit as the guy who uses "Jesus doesn't like it". 

The best way to determine whether someone's an honest policy advocate or a sanctimonious twit is to ask who they're trying to protect.  The sanctimonious twits never seem to be interested in protecting themselves from the temptation.  It's always "Ban that video game because someone else might drive like that!", or "Ban fast cars because only bad people would drive one!", but never "Ban that video game because I enjoyed the part where I squashed the pedestrians like bugs!" or "Ban fast cars because I enjoyed riding in one and was tempted to buy it even though it only gets 10 MPG!" 

The patriotic ones don't give all this backtalk.  It's just Ronald Reagan, Thy Will Be Done!  What would Reagan do?  He would make it chic for industrial contractors to suck the gummint teat and that, yea, though those Welfare Queens be greedy, don't hesitate to, you know help yourself out on the public dough, just keep the poor people out! 

That's pretty much been the mantra of the conservative power elite for two generations now!  Don't pretend you didn't get your Happy Ending when we know you did!
:P

But a true libertarian would say, "Whoa! Put in the brakes there, bub! Ain't none your business either if I like to download goat porn and smoke a little crack!  It's my body, I do what I want with.

Then when he goes down in a hail of fire from the goat porn police and the local constabulary, the other true libertarian shouts, "That's right! That was yoooooouuur body!"

Another great case made, but know rights restored.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a humanist pragrmatist, I try to study the gray line between what's in the interest of society and what's in the interest of the individual and where must the individual defer to the state and where would the state defer to the individual.  The libertarians are going to say, "It's the individual, and a skeleton-crew government to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic.  That might work...in an agrarian society where only a few white protestant land-owning males had the vote!  Yes...it would have worked in Jefferson's time.  But things change with time.  You can't go home again--to fob a meme.  The America I was born into in 1969 is not the same America as today.  For better and for worse.  People seemed to be more industrious and tougher in the old days (now, of course, I don't remember 1969, but as the year of my birth, I took an interest in the what made 1969 1969.  While they were hardier stock, they were also nastier about "others" and you if you weren't, you must be kind of commie!

Back in 1969 my older sister was six.  She was taking ballet lessons in Boston at a school run by a Mrs. DuChance.  One day, another mother leaked it to my Pembroke-educated white guilt-stricken radical hippie mother that Mrs. DuChance "doesn't let the colored girls in."  Well, my Pembroke-educated white guilt-stricken radical hippie mother marched right in to give Madame Bigot the hot ear.  The lady confirmed, that indeed, she "does not admit Negro students. " That was the polite word in 1969, I'll have you to know!  The polite word!  :o

My mother yanked my sister outta that ballet school like twister yanks a trailer off its cement blocks!  She apologised to my sister because she loved her ballet so, but it is very, very wrong to treat people badly because of the color of their skin so she had to leave the school because the teacher was a racist.  My big sister was a soldier in the civil rights brigade!  This is the kind of message that sticks with the kids: We don't hate other because they are different from us.  In just a few short generations that ethos now allows us to nominate an African-American man for the presidency.  Must remember...this was not Coffee, Mississippi, in 1963.  This was Boston in 1969!  Liberal Boston! Tolerant Boston! Kick him in the pants whoever said that! 

So, Mrs. DuChance just tossed her head like, "Oh, it's rathah repulsive darhlink--some hippie chick going hysterical about the little black children again!"  Today, she'd be the one pilloried on Boston Common! 

For more than five years after the Civil Rights Acts, you could run a segregated ballet school in Boston.  I don't know how all those African-Americans maintained a faith in God throughout all the injustice, perhaps it told them they'd be happy after they die!!!.  Nobody would attempt to pull it off today.  They'd be shut down by the government....say, why do conservatives hate the government so?  Because we should be permitted to ban whoever we wish from our businesses and public accommodations?  So we can have our guns and make you eat them too?  At least the libertarians are consistent.  Of, course that is why they would not be able to govern a complex modern society.

??? 8)

"I Have Forgiven Jesus"

"I'm So Miserable (And You Just Don't Care)

Which you can still find on some deleted 12"'s of "Miserable Lie," which is, like, a Danish cassette-only release, y'know? Do you know? Do you know? Do you know?  Do you know?
???

"I Have Forgiven Jesus"

"I'm So Miserable (And You Just Don't Care)

Which you can still find on some deleted 12"'s of "Miserable Lie," which is, like, a Danish cassette-only release, y'know? Do you know? Do you know? Do you know?  Do you know? 


No, but after that epic Skinny Puppyesque rant (for which I've duly awarded karma :), I'm gonna look for it.  Got lyrics?  Post 'em to the moribund lyrics board, it could use some obscure stuff to draw in the random googling crowd.

Meantime, I'm gonna hafta settle for the old standbys:

Depeche Mode, Blasphemous Rumors (essentially, the Book of Job translated into 80s lyrics)

But on behalf of the irreligious, you can't beat Nine Inch Nails' Terrible Lie, Ruiner, and Heresy.  I used to crank Heresy up to discreet listening volume... for third parties overhearing the leakage from my headphones.  Probably the only background music that could beat the original music from DOOM, and in an unsurprising twist, Reznor found himself commissioned to do the soundtrack to Quake a couple of years later.  You don't need to have a crisis of faith to enjoy the feeling of imagining yourself knee-deep in the dead, mowing down armies of hellspawn while Reznor burns your eardrums to a crisp.  But it helps, even if all it does is freak the mundanes :)

Yup.  Enjoyed it thoroughly. 

For those who haven't, the premise is that you've come across the internal (or is that infernal) correspondence of Hell.  Specifically, letters between Screwtape and Wormwood, who are two demons out to wreak havoc on the world. 

You don't have to be a theologian (or even a believer) to enjoy it.  Think of it as science fiction/fantasy.  Change the names around, and it could just as easily have been a Babylon 5 (Shadows vs. Vorlons) or a Stargate SG-1 (Ori vs. Ascended Ancients) plot arc.

My favorite C.S. Lewis quote, however, is this one:
- C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock (1948)

There's no correlation between religiosity and sanctimony. 

The guy who uses "it's your fair share" or "think of the children", or even "it's for the environment" as an excuse to take things away from you is every bit as sanctamonious a twit as the guy who uses "Jesus doesn't like it". 

The best way to determine whether someone's an honest policy advocate or a sanctimonious twit is to ask who they're trying to protect.  The sanctimonious twits never seem to be interested in protecting themselves from the temptation.  It's always "Ban that video game because someone else might drive like that!", or "Ban fast cars because only bad people would drive one!", but never "Ban that video game because I enjoyed the part where I squashed the pedestrians like bugs!" or "Ban fast cars because I enjoyed riding in one and was tempted to buy it even though it only gets 10 MPG!" 


C.S. Lewis had an understanding of Christianity and religion that comes from years in the University and not in a pew.  Which is why I find him a joy to read.  He and Tolken were friends.  You can see they influence each others writing.

Wouldn't surprise me if some Evangelical Christian churches ban their members from reading Lewis.  You know what happens when people start thinking.

  You know what happens when people start thinking.


Now you've got me thinking !  ???    :-\\    :-[    :(

Now you've got me thinking !  ???    :-\\    :-[    :(


Thinking leads to reason, reason leads to questioning, questioning leads to upheaval.

It happened with Martin Luther, that lead to the Reformation.

Thinking leads to reason, reason leads to questioning, questioning leads to upheaval.

It happened with Martin Luther, that lead to the Reformation.



Martin Luther ....... as opposed to LEX LUTHOR (Stuporman's arch enemy !    ???  :o    ??? ).


Didn't the former .... go on a diet of worms ?    8-P  Even a Big Mac's GOTTA be better than THAT !      :D    ;D

Martin Luther ....... as opposed to LEX LUTHOR (Stuporman's arch enemy !     ???  :o    ??? ).


Didn't the former .... go on a diet of worms ?    8-P   Even a Big Mac's GOTTA be better than THAT !      :D     ;D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Worms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Worms


Indeed. I'd already read it ^  (in between my post ^^ and yours! ^    :P    ;D

No, but after that epic Skinny Puppyesque rant (for which I've duly awarded karma :), I'm gonna look for it.  Got lyrics?  Post 'em to the moribund lyrics board, it could use some obscure stuff to draw in the random googling crowd.

Meantime, I'm gonna hafta settle for the old standbys:

Depeche Mode, Blasphemous Rumors (essentially, the Book of Job translated into 80s lyrics)

But on behalf of the irreligious, you can't beat Nine Inch Nails' Terrible Lie, Ruiner, and Heresy.  I used to crank Heresy up to discreet listening volume... for third parties overhearing the leakage from my headphones.  Probably the only background music that could beat the original music from DOOM, and in an unsurprising twist, Reznor found himself commissioned to do the soundtrack to Quake a couple of years later.  You don't need to have a crisis of faith to enjoy the feeling of imagining yourself knee-deep in the dead, mowing down armies of hellspawn while Reznor burns your eardrums to a crisp.  But it helps, even if all it does is freak the mundanes :)


File under: Adolescent Anthems!
:-[
I took to all them Depeche Mode records like a junkie takes to his dope!  I listened to them over and over and over again!  It was helping wrinse out all that rancid Led Zeppelin, Elton John, and Electric Light Orchestra I had to suffer with as a child of the '70s.  This was My '80s music.  It still is...my '80s muisc.
:-\\

Great electronic music to make your ears bleed, you need this guy, Iannis Xenakis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztoaNakKok

Now, are you a real electronic music fan or a Sears electronic music fan?  Whattsa matta, cat got yer toungue? :-X

File under: Adolescent Anthems!
:-[
I took to all them Depeche Mode records like a junkie takes to his dope!  I listened to them over and over and over again!  It was helping wrinse out all that rancid Led Zeppelin, Elton John, and Electric Light Orchestra I had to suffer with as a child of the '70s.  This was My '80s music.  It still is...my '80s muisc.
:-\\

Great electronic music to make your ears bleed, you need this guy, Iannis Xenakis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztoaNakKok

Now, are you a real electronic music fan or a Sears electronic music fan?  Whattsa matta, cat got yer toungue? :-X
Holy Crap, I hate to say it but I'm a Sears electronic music fan!  That sh$% hurt my teeth! ;D

No, but after that epic Skinny Puppyesque rant (for which I've duly awarded karma :), I'm gonna look for it.  Got lyrics?  Post 'em to the moribund lyrics board, it could use some obscure stuff to draw in the random googling crowd.

Meantime, I'm gonna hafta settle for the old standbys:

Depeche Mode, Blasphemous Rumors (essentially, the Book of Job translated into 80s lyrics)

Oh yeah, I'm gonna agree with you there!

I was just gonna mention some Einsturzende Neubauten shoddily translated:

"In the cab you start crying only because I say I will be dead within two years consuming this amounts!"
"ALL IDOLS HAVE TO DIE"
You can see I am completely wrecked and enteirely smeared in blood"
"Within myself, beyond myself, inside myself, in spite of myself"

"The other sex daily this causes me wounds

I sit in my hole and wait for the dreams to come save me

They don't come."

So next time you're listening to Nine Inch Nails you can say, "that's where that comes from!"

And of course, Calvin and Hobbes (puns intended) beat us all to the punch by centuries.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/culwin/calvin-god.gif

And of course, Calvin and Hobbes (puns intended) beat us all to the punch by centuries.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/culwin/calvin-god.gif


That is too perfect!!!  ;D

God is a myth, The bible was written by men two civilize mankind.
Sorry if that offends.
"God lives in us" by our actions and thoughts. Not in some cloud covered heaven.
:o

And of course, Calvin and Hobbes (puns intended) beat us all to the punch by centuries.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/culwin/calvin-god.gif


LOL  ;D

God is a myth, The bible was written by men two civilize mankind.
Sorry if that offends.
"God lives in us" by our actions and thoughts. Not in some cloud covered heaven.
:o


It doesn't offend...but it also doesn't make sense!!!  You can't say..."God is a myth" followed by "God lives in us".... ???

God is a myth, The bible was written by men two civilize mankind.
Sorry if that offends.
"God lives in us" by our actions and thoughts. Not in some cloud covered heaven.
:o


I have NO argument with you there.  How many terrorists / freedom fighters .... whatever ... have been human bombs and the like ... destroyed innocent people .... in the name of 'god'    ::)  .... where is god ... when you REALLY need him (?). Presumably, helping out that soccer player / boxer .... who 'crosses themselves' .... before going into battle !    ::)

It doesn't offend...but it also doesn't make sense!!!  You can't say..."God is a myth" followed by "God lives in us".... ???


It made perfect sense to me, 'gibbo'. Well I took it she was saying ... the idea .. even ideal of god ... is for US to live up to ... that we can be 'god like', decent,  caring ..... that aspect of god  we would like in him/it/her .. were this mythical creature to exist ?

There IS also the possibility she was allowing for some other type of 'god' / supreme creator .... but not the one rammed down our throats by religions .... rather one none of us can comprehend ... that is NOT merciful, all powerful or any such stuff .... but just IS .... (although I don't subscribe to THAT one .. ). If god ever DID exist ... I reckon he/ she/it .. is dead.

I reckon we pretty much came out of those gases, and heat and the rest such stuff (big bang ... or something akin to that) ... but what created those elements / the situation .... is something I just can't get my head around. I can't see how ANYTHING ... just came out of 'nothing' ... all by itself ... but that doesn't lead to 'god' either !

God is a myth, The bible was written by men two civilize mankind.
Sorry if that offends.
"God lives in us" by our actions and thoughts. Not in some cloud covered heaven.
:o


I always felt that "God" is part of human psychology.  Ever since prehistoric time man has wanted answers to certain questions.  God is not a who.  God is a what.

God is a myth, The bible was written by men two civilize mankind.
Sorry if that offends.
"God lives in us" by our actions and thoughts. Not in some cloud covered heaven.
:o



I didn"t clearly convey what I wanted to say.  http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/dozey.gif
God  or Goddess dwells in each and everyone of us.
Not God as an entity, but that part of us that makes human.
God is just a term I used, besides it's easier to spell than consciousness). (Whew that was rough)

It made perfect sense to me, 'gibbo'. Well I took it she was saying ... the idea .. even ideal of god ... is for US to live up to ... that we can be 'god like', decent,  caring ..... that aspect of god  we would like in him/it/her .. were this mythical creature to exist ?

There IS also the possibility she was allowing for some other type of 'god' / supreme creator .... but not the one rammed down our throats by religions .... rather one none of us can comprehend ... that is NOT merciful, all powerful or any such stuff .... but just IS .... (although I don't subscribe to THAT one .. ). If god ever DID exist ... I reckon he/ she/it .. is dead.

I reckon we pretty much came out of those gases, and heat and the rest such stuff (big bang ... or something akin to that) ... but what created those elements / the situation .... is something I just can't get my head around. I can't see how ANYTHING ... just came out of 'nothing' ... all by itself ... but that doesn't lead to 'god' either !



You did get what I was talking about!!!
:-*

I always felt that "God" is part of human psychology.  Ever since prehistoric time man has wanted answers to certain questions.  God is not a who.  God is a what.


Wrong, Wrong .. . WRONG !      ::)




























God is a male human being. His name is ChuckyG............ and he has the power ... of life, and death ... over YOU .... and  ME !    :P    :D

Wrong, Wrong .. . WRONG !      ::)




























God is a male human being. His name is ChuckyG............ and he has the power ... of life, and death ... over YOU .... and  ME !    :P    :D


I wasn't aware that ChuckyG needed to be worship.  Is there a ritual that is involved?

I wasn't aware that ChuckyG needed to be worship.  Is there a ritual that is involved?


I'd actually forgotten I'd posted this one. Must have had a few beers too many !    :-[  ???    ;D

I wasn't aware that ChuckyG needed to be worship.  Is there a ritual that is involved?

Yep... we write our hymns in parody and submit them at the altar of amiright.com

And of course, Calvin and Hobbes (puns intended) beat us all to the punch by centuries.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/culwin/calvin-god.gif


I had to save that!  ;)

I had to save that!  ;)


In that case, I'll throw up one more.  Gotta do something to make up for all the times I've posted "Patience", so here's my second-favorite motivational poster of all time:

http://i26.tinypic.com/mauwy8.jpg

It's like the entire "and thus spoke God out of the whirlwind" scene from the Book of Job (which, in the King James Version, is one of the most poetic bits of English ever written, and you needn't believe to enjoy it as a work of literature) distilled into an Internet Meme. 

God sent us Einstein and look what we did--we created atomic weapons!

"So", He figures, "they almost rubbed themselves out over that third-rate act, Einstein, just imagine what they'll do if I send my own son around there again!"

"Left Behind" series readers, fuh-get about it!

We don't deserve Jesus if we're going to take as prophecy what can be got in a Wal-Mart discount bin.  And, yea, though Paul Simon says, "And the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenament halls," these locations are replete with much romance and tragedy.  "And the words of the prophets are written in Wal-Mart discount pins" doesnt' carry the same kind of cache!

Jesus ain't gonna make a comeback until mankind demonstrates it won't use His return as a suicide pact!
8)

"So", He figures, "they almost rubbed themselves out over that third-rate act, Einstein, just imagine what they'll do if I send my own son around there again!"


http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3821/jesa6.jpg

Probably something like that.


Jesus ain't gonna make a comeback until mankind demonstrates it won't use His return as a suicide pact!


On the upside, being completely ignored would still qualify as better treatment than what we gave Him 2000 years ago.  Maybe "Bob" will cut a deal with Jesus, and Jesus'll cut us some Slack for that.

I would just like to share a story if I may:

In the '80s ('80/'81), my grandpa (my dad's dad) was having a persistent cough.  He went to the doctor and they found a cancerous mass in his lung (it showed up on the x-rays, they also looked at it with an endoscope).  Doc said my grandpa had 3 choices:  1 - Surgery, which would remove part of his lung. 2 - Chemotherapy.  3 - Radiation.  Doc told my grandpa to think on the choices and also to come back 2 weeks later so he could see how fast the mass was growing.

In the meantime, my parents decided to pray for him.  My grandpa didn't like that idea, saying things like, "I don't need that <insert curse word here>"  He had his share of disappointments in his life, which included 3 of his sons dying as children, so it was understandable he might've felt bitter towards God.  My parents told him they were going to pray for him anyway.

2 weeks is up and he's back to the doctor to check the growth-rate of the mass.  My dad was in the waiting room while grandpa was getting x-rays to compare with the ones from the first visit, and another endoscopy.  And then....Doc comes out with a bewildered look on his face.  Doc says, "I just can't explain it, but the mass is completely gone.  I don't understand it.  I saw it last time--I know I did!"  My grandpa became a believer after this experience.  He never had cancer again, and lived another 18 years after dying of a faulty heart-valve.  He was 4 days shy of his 86th birthday.

I thank God for letting this happen because I probably wouldn't have even known my grandpa.  I wasn't born until '89, and then he died when I was about 8-9.  And he had a big impact on me growing up.

I would just like to share a story if I may:

In the '80s ('80/'81), my grandpa (my dad's dad) was having a persistent cough.  He went to the doctor and they found a cancerous mass in his lung (it showed up on the x-rays, they also looked at it with an endoscope).  Doc said my grandpa had 3 choices:  1 - Surgery, which would remove part of his lung. 2 - Chemotherapy.  3 - Radiation.  Doc told my grandpa to think on the choices and also to come back 2 weeks later so he could see how fast the mass was growing.

In the meantime, my parents decided to pray for him.  My grandpa didn't like that idea, saying things like, "I don't need that <insert curse word here>"  He had his share of disappointments in his life, which included 3 of his sons dying as children, so it was understandable he might've felt bitter towards God.  My parents told him they were going to pray for him anyway.

2 weeks is up and he's back to the doctor to check the growth-rate of the mass.  My dad was in the waiting room while grandpa was getting x-rays to compare with the ones from the first visit, and another endoscopy.  And then....Doc comes out with a bewildered look on his face.  Doc says, "I just can't explain it, but the mass is completely gone.  I don't understand it.  I saw it last time--I know I did!"  My grandpa became a believer after this experience.  He never had cancer again, and lived another 18 years after dying of a faulty heart-valve.  He was 4 days shy of his 86th birthday.

I thank God for letting this happen because I probably wouldn't have even known my grandpa.  I wasn't born until '89, and then he died when I was about 8-9.  And he had a big impact on me growing up.
I think it's great that you had that time to know your Grandfather, as I too treasured my years with my own. 

I don't mean to sound awful but being the atheist I am I was wondering why you think God took his tumor away?  If you follow that reasoning, you probably should be asking why God gave him a tumor in the first place.  I'm really not trying to be obstinate, I'm just wondering how the other side of that works.

I think it's great that you had that time to know your Grandfather, as I too treasured my years with my own. 

I don't mean to sound awful but being the atheist I am I was wondering why you think God took his tumor away?  If you follow that reasoning, you probably should be asking why God gave him a tumor in the first place.  I'm really not trying to be obstinate, I'm just wondering how the other side of that works.



God doesn't give/cause diseases...but yet not everyone gets healed either. I know it's really hard to understand and accept sometimes. We know this Christian family...they had a son who had lukemia for years. They prayed and prayed and were very faithful....but he ended up passing away at the age of like 9 or so. It doesn't seem fair sometimes when someone is spared and someone is not. There have to be reasons for everything, and I wish I could tell you why things happen and why sometimes they don't. I DO believe in miracles though...I've seen too many of them not to believe.

That's an awesome story Audrey..thanks for sharing it with us. :)

If God is omnipotent, let's just be thankful He doesn't just shake us out like an Etch-a-Sketch and start all over again!
:o

I would hope you've all heard of THIS guy.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/images/0801-InterviewAttenboroughM.jpg
^ David Attenborough ..... the man who’s brought us life on earth, in the freezer, under the oceans and in the undergrowth

This is pretty much what he had to say.... in a recent interview I saw ....

He told me that he had been so pestered by those who saw a divine pattern in nature that he had now developed a stock response. “I tell them they ought occasionally to think less of beautiful things like hummingbirds and orchids and sunflowers and think of other, less attractive things. They might, for example, think of the parasitic worms that live only in the eyeballs of human beings. Think of that worm boring its way through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa. A worm that’s going to make him blind. Are you telling me that God or an intelligent designer created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball?”




More info ... here:  http://newhumanist.org.uk/1673




He does go on to say he is NOT an atheist ....


Yet he had never openly declared himself to be an atheist. “That’s right. I’m an agnostic. In the strict sense that I don’t know. And I don’t know a lot. And I certainly don’t know about the existence of a supreme being or about the existence of an afterlife. The absence of evidence does not mean that there is a god. The absence of evidence means two things. It means that we don’t know but it also means scientifically that it would be interesting to find out.” There are those who accuse agnostics of hedging their bets. But this would quite unfair to Attenborough. His agnosticism is not a way of saying that there might be a god; it is rather a statement about the necessary humility and open-mindedness of the scientific attitude. It is a prescription for action rather than a refusal to enter the argument.



As for me ... as much as I respect him ^ ... to me, agnosticism ... IS 'hedging your bets'.  How you can tell me there WAS a 'reason' (with the 'consent' of god ? ) for 911    ::)  ... with countless innocent lives shattered .... I just DON'T buy it.

Yet at the same time......it doesn't make any sense that a 'big bang' delivered the ingredients for the complexities of that same parasitic worm or how a female body works. I don't purport to know all the answers...but I do know that I could go around in circles all of my life trying to understand it all.

That is why some will be much happier to believe in a supreme being and then they can get on with other complexities of life that they actually DO have some control over.......

Yet at the same time......it doesn't make any sense that a 'big bang' delivered the ingredients for the complexities of that same parasitic worm or how a female body works. I don't purport to know all the answers...but I do know that I could go around in circles all of my life trying to understand it all.

That is why some will be much happier to believe in a supreme being and then they can get on with other complexities of life that they actually DO have some control over.......


As I've said elsewhere/ before ... if you want to believe in a 'tooth fairy' .. a 'rabbit's foot'  ... a 'St. Christopher's medal' .... or 'heaven forbid' .... 'GOD' .....  ::) ... well, the fact that that belief may be a source of occasional comfort to you ......... don't make in NECESSARILY 'so' .


You talk about the 'complexities' involved by a 'big bang' to deliver even a parasitic worm  .... or  (by implication ... those beautiful orchids/ lorikeets that I adore ... US ... and so on ...) as 'evidence' for some grand designer ?  ???  ::)

Yes, I do have a prob with what caused the bang itself ... but, once the elements ARE in place, given billions of years of fermentation, heat, stars, planets, water, etc,  etc ... well, these things certainly did NOT happen overnight, or ... anything like the '7 day's .... we're 'informed' of ... by the bible    ::) 

As I've said elsewhere/ before ... if you want to believe in a 'tooth fairy' .. a 'rabbit's foot'  ... a 'St. Christopher's medal' .... or 'heaven forbid' .... 'GOD' .....   ::) ... well, the fact that that belief may be a source of occasional comfort to you ......... don't make in NECESSARILY 'so' .


You talk about the 'complexities' involved by a 'big bang' to deliver even a parasitic worm  .... or  (by implication ... those beautiful orchids/ lorikeets that I adore ... US ... and so on ...) as 'evidence' for some grand designer ?   ???   ::)

Yes, I do have a prob with what caused the bang itself ... but, once the elements ARE in place, given billions of years of fermentation, heat, stars, planets, water, etc,  etc ... well, these things certainly did NOT happen overnight, or ... anything like the '7 day's .... we're 'informed' of ... by the bible    ::) 


Never said it was true...just commented that it gives some people comfort to believe in something more tangible (to them) than whatever alternative some scientists are putting forward (also without any real proof). The Bible only proves that a man named Jesus walked the eart and was crucified. People with real faith will believe more than that.....and you know what? I would rather be one of those than someoen who believes in nothing. There will be little comfort found there.  Trouble is........I keep questioning what faith would have me believe.....but I'm too lazy or perhaps stubborn to truly seek the answers!  There are NO absolute answers that can be proved or disproved.......we just have to choose a path but be open to the possibility that we are wrong.

Signed confused........

Never said it was true...just commented that it gives some people comfort to believe in something more tangible (to them) than whatever alternative some scientists are putting forward (also without any real proof).

Signed confused........


The scientific method is to be applauded, because it proposes theories on the best available evidence of the day. It KNOWS it can be wrong ... and is open to CONSTANT evolution of the theories, as new evidence comes to light. Bit by bit, piece by piece, with a bunch of mistakes along the road, we get closer and closer to the TRUTH.

Pseudosciences / religion ... they are NOT open to question  really.  Ultimately, the believers will cling to their faith ... remain believers ... NO MATTER WHAT !

Yes, I CAN understand your reluctance to give up your 'security blanket' ... the teddy bear of your childhood (?)  (so to speak )  ... for the void that confronts atheists, is not the most comforting prospect.  However, I'd rather go down believing I was right, rather than took what I see as an 'easy way out' .... (for me). I might as well incinerate the remaining brain cells I have, if I'm gonna throw in the towel NOW  .... and subscribe to 'god ... who just always happens to move in mysterious ways'    ::)

The scientific method is to be applauded, because it proposes theories on the best available evidence of the day. It KNOWS it can be wrong ... and is open to CONSTANT evolution of the theories, as new evidence comes to light. Bit by bit, piece by piece, with a bunch of mistakes along the road, we get closer and closer to the TRUTH.

Pseudosciences / religion ... they are NOT open to question  really.  Ultimately, the believers will cling to their faith ... remain believers ... NO MATTER WHAT !

Yes, I CAN understand your reluctance to give up your 'security blanket' ... the teddy bear of your childhood (?)   (so to speak )  ... for the void that confronts atheists, is not the most comforting prospect.  However, I'd rather go down believing I was right, rather than took what I see as an 'easy way out' .... (for me). I might as well incinerate the remaining brain cells I have, if I'm gonna throw in the towel NOW  .... and subscribe to 'god ... who just always happens to move in mysterious ways'    ::)


Have to dissagree on this one....... The catch is, I believe the scientific truth will NEVER be known....well, not in my lifetime anyway!  But I don't resent them for pursuing the goal.... :)

Have to dissagree on this one....... The catch is, I believe the scientific truth will NEVER be known....well, not in my lifetime anyway!  But I don't resent them for pursuing the goal.... :)


We're agreed on that ... by clarification ... that we'll never know the entire big picture of the universe / our creation, for sure, in our life times.  That the scientific truth will NEVER be known, I am not convinced. With ever evolving super computers, and 'modelling' / sophisticated gadgets to come  .... which would probably blow us away (look how far we've come since the Wright Brothers flew in 1903 ) ......

Science is prepared / EXPECTS to have 'egg on it's face' .... but is always ready to admit it, once the hard evidence is there. It is OBJECTIVE .... and the theories adapt / discard what they know to be wrong !

We're agreed on that ... by clarification ... that we'll never know the entire big picture of the universe / our creation, for sure, in our life times.  That the scientific truth will NEVER be known, I am not convinced. With ever evolving super computers, and 'modelling' / sophisticated gadgets to come  .... which would probably blow us away (look how far we've come since the Wright Brothers flew in 1903 ) ......

Science is prepared / EXPECTS to have 'egg on it's face' .... but is always ready to admit it, once the hard evidence is there. It is OBJECTIVE .... and the theories adapt / discard what they know to be wrong !


Sorry....still dissagree.  Take the theory of Evolution....I have given away following the whole scientific argument of humans evolving from apes. On one hand there are a group of scientists that support the theory with every new bone said to be the "missing link". On the other side there is another group of equally respected scientists that refute the theory (and they are not saying creation is the answer). They are just not as newsworthy......  Not that it makes any real difference to my life one way or the other really.....

I am tired of believing what I read only to find some other study that refutes those particular claims. I basically don't trust the scientists with their carbon dating etc. Okay the bone found dates back to 50 million years....and I am supposed to just believe it. It is the same argument as Faith...we are just supposed to believe because someone wrote it. I have become the ultimate cynic....

Sorry....still dissagree.  Take the theory of Evolution....I have given away following the whole scientific argument of humans evolving from apes. On one hand there are a group of scientists that support the theory with every new bone said to be the "missing link". On the other side there is another group of equally respected scientists that refute the theory (and they are not saying creation is the answer). They are just not as newsworthy......  Not that it makes any real difference to my life one way or the other really.....

I am tired of believing what I read only to find some other study that refutes those particular claims. I basically don't trust the scientists with their carbon dating etc. Okay the bone found dates back to 50 million years....and I am supposed to just believe it. It is the same argument as Faith...we are just supposed to believe because someone wrote it. I have become the ultimate cynic....





Well, you do have a point there. Global warming is another example, isn't it ? Although it now seems to have swung around to most supporting that it IS  a reality.

Then there's the problem with this giving you cancer, that giving you cancer ... this being healthy one moment ... yes ... I have to admit, that science can be frustrating at times .... but no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater .




















http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1747/cheekybabyrt8.gif
8)  ^ "I back 'Mr' on THAT one !" 










:P



:D


;D

Well, you do have a point there. Global warming is another example, isn't it ? Although it now seems to have swung around to most supporting that it IS  a reality.

Then there's the problem with this giving you cancer, that giving you cancer ... this being healthy one moment ... yes ... I have to admit, that science can be frustrating at times .... but no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater .




















http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1747/cheekybabyrt8.gif
8)  ^ "I back 'Mr' on THAT one !"   










:P



:D


;D



Yeah true...but which is the baby and which is the bath water?  I believe the earth is warming....I just don't yet believe why!  There was another report recently tabled in Parliament here that stated the earth had actually cooled over the past 10 years....HUH?  With so many factions with money to make in the Environmental Industry....I don't know what to believe. Too many emotional outbursts from politicians (who now seem to be onboard) even if they don't know for sure why. I heard a politician say ..."are you going to explain to your children why areas of Sydney and the Eastern seaboard will be under water in the next three to five years". The pollies are damned if they do and damned if they don't...so they will go with the popular vote..of course....and who know's , it could be spot on!  I guess only time will tell what was truth and fact..........

Too tired, distracted by more pressing matters, to 'spar with you' anymore, gibbo. Someone else can take up our respective sides ! Or you can continue to take on 'all comers'    ;D

Too tired, distracted by more pressing matters, to 'spar with you' anymore, gibbo. Someone else can take up our respective sides ! Or you can continue to take on 'all comers'    ;D


Hey it's been fun (for someone who normally does one liners)....and I, too am feeling tired...

Cheers  :) ;)

Sorry....still dissagree.  Take the theory of Evolution....I have given away following the whole scientific argument of humans evolving from apes. On one hand there are a group of scientists that support the theory with every new bone said to be the "missing link". On the other side there is another group of equally respected scientists that refute the theory (and they are not saying creation is the answer). They are just not as newsworthy......  Not that it makes any real difference to my life one way or the other really.....

I am tired of believing what I read only to find some other study that refutes those particular claims. I basically don't trust the scientists with their carbon dating etc. Okay the bone found dates back to 50 million years....and I am supposed to just believe it. It is the same argument as Faith...we are just supposed to believe because someone wrote it. I have become the ultimate cynic....





Aw  cmon we was left here by Aliens http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/conehead.gif as an experiment what else could account for the many bizarre humans behaviors??? Were just whirling through space throwing MC Donald garbage out there. They're gonna get pissed and eradicate us with one all encompassing death ray. Wait I gotta get my  tin foil hat!!!! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/schuss.gif

Aw  cmon we was left here by Aliens http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/conehead.gif as an experiment what else could account for the many bizarre humans behaviors??? Were just whirling through space throwing MC Donald garbage out there. They're gonna get pissed and eradicate us with one all encompassing death ray. Wait I gotta get my  tin foil hat!!!! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/schuss.gif


Now THAT may be the truth!!!  'cept I don't really believe in aliens. Surely we'd have real concrete proof by now??  But what are all those millions of planets for?????


Don't get me started on yet another topic that has no ending....aaaarrrggghhh!!!!!

Now THAT may be the truth!!!  'cept I don't really believe in aliens. Surely we'd have real concrete proof by now??  But what are all those millions of planets for?????


Don't get me started on yet another topic that has no ending....aaaarrrggghhh!!!!!




Only if they wanted us to have proof. They may have long life spans really long life spans or have died off. Who Knows?

I think it's great that you had that time to know your Grandfather, as I too treasured my years with my own. 

I don't mean to sound awful but being the atheist I am I was wondering why you think God took his tumor away?  If you follow that reasoning, you probably should be asking why God gave him a tumor in the first place.  I'm really not trying to be obstinate, I'm just wondering how the other side of that works.


I understand where you're coming from, and I really think I couldn't have explained it better than Erin did.  :)


He told me that he had been so pestered by those who saw a divine pattern in nature that he had now developed a stock response. “I tell them they ought occasionally to think less of beautiful things like hummingbirds and orchids and sunflowers and think of other, less attractive things. They might, for example, think of the parasitic worms that live only in the eyeballs of human beings. Think of that worm boring its way through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa. A worm that’s going to make him blind. Are you telling me that God or an intelligent designer created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball?”


Now, someone like my brother is fascinated by things like that (he's obsessed with bugs).  If God really did create the worms to live in humans like that, they didn't become hazardous to health until after humans sinned.


Yes, I CAN understand your reluctance to give up your 'security blanket' ... the teddy bear of your childhood (?)   (so to speak )  ... for the void that confronts atheists, is not the most comforting prospect.  However, I'd rather go down believing I was right, rather than took what I see as an 'easy way out' .... (for me). I might as well incinerate the remaining brain cells I have, if I'm gonna throw in the towel NOW  .... and subscribe to 'god ... who just always happens to move in mysterious ways'    ::)


.....I'd rather believe in God and find out there is no heaven, than not believe in God only to find out there actually was a heaven.

Now, someone like my brother is fascinated by things like that (he's obsessed with bugs).  If God really did create the worms to live in humans like that, they didn't become hazardous to health until after humans sinned.



You guys have an 'answer' for everything.  ::)  So .... EVERYTHING that goes wrong in THIS life ..... can be 'explained' by our 'original sin' ? Tasting the forbidden fruit I guess. How 'wicked' to be 'curious' / 'flawed' ... and check this thing out. He created the devil too I guess. The tree ... just a little 'test' for us ... some sort of computer games equivalent to him, for his amusement ?    ??? This whole life we live through is just some sort of charade, for our REAL lives in heaven ... if we're 'good little boys and girls' in THIS life ? Yes ... we have to prove ourselves 'worthy', I guess.  ::)  It strikes me stillborn kids, innocent kids born blind, deformed, who meet with accident/ death .... are just some kind of prop ? Only the GOOD die young, presumably to go straight to heaven in some cases ..... whereas others of us, have to spend 70 or more years .... proving ourselves ? Then when we arrive to be re-united with our partners ... well, it's a bit awkward when  someones had multiple husbands / wives, loved them all. Presumably no bodies involved .... and some kind of essence / ghostly gases floating around just getting it on with each other ?    ::)  Of course, if your partner didn't make the cut ... was deemed ineligible for heaven .. what kind of 'reward' is heaven for YOU. A sort of hell, by default ... but God will expect you to be 'understanding'    ::)

We get to share heaven with ancient Egyptians, cavemen, their dogs and cats ... (gee, it could be VERY crowded through the course of man's occupation of this planet .. and the people yet to come  ...  :-X  .... I think I might just give it a miss, and let my particles float around here and there, be re-cycled in some fashion, whatever.



.....I'd rather believe in God and find out there is no heaven, than not believe in God only to find out there actually was a heaven.


Life isn't inherently fair, is it ? You're right ..  you can say 'I told you so'. I'm right .... no such crowing rights !  >:(


I guess that makes you smart in one sense, even if you're TOTALLY wrong.    8-P

You guys have an 'answer' for everything.  ::)  So .... EVERYTHING that goes wrong in THIS life ..... can be 'explained' by our 'original sin' ? Tasting the forbidden fruit I guess. How 'wicked' to be 'curious' / 'flawed' ... and check this thing out. He created the devil too I guess. The tree ... just a little 'test' for us ... some sort of computer games equivalent to him, for his amusement ?    ??? This whole life we live through is just some sort of charade, for our REAL lives in heaven ... if we're 'good little boys and girls' in THIS life ? Yes ... we have to prove ourselves 'worthy', I guess.  ::)  It strikes me stillborn kids, innocent kids born blind, deformed, who meet with accident/ death .... are just some kind of prop ? Only the GOOD die young, presumably to go straight to heaven in some cases ..... whereas others of us, have to spend 70 or more years .... proving ourselves ? Then when we arrive to be re-united with our partners ... well, it's a bit awkward when  someones had multiple husbands / wives, loved them all. Presumably no bodies involved .... and some kind of essence / ghostly gases floating around just getting it on with each other ?    ::)  Of course, if your partner didn't make the cut ... was deemed ineligible for heaven .. what kind of 'reward' is heaven for YOU. A sort of hell, by default ... but God will expect you to be 'understanding'    ::)

We get to share heaven with ancient Egyptians, cavemen, their dogs and cats ... (gee, it could be VERY crowded through the course of man's occupation of this planet .. and the people yet to come  ...  :-X  .... I think I might just give it a miss, and let my particles float around here and there, be re-cycled in some fashion, whatever.


Life isn't inherently fair, is it ? You're right ..  you can say 'I told you so'. I'm right .... no such crowing rights !  >:(


I guess that makes you smart in one sense, even if you're TOTALLY wrong.    8-P



I hear you.. energy cannot be destroyed only changed into different forms.
If you believe in reincarnation I'm coming back as a rich ladies cat.

.....I'd rather believe in God and find out there is no heaven, than not believe in God only to find out there actually was a heaven.


I agree Audrey.... I felt the same way when I was younger. Somehow I manged to become more confused in recent years......I guess my nature is more 'doubting Thomas' than St Paul...

I've been going through a phase of.....If God created all ....and we give God credit for everything good...then He must also take responsibility for all things bad!!!  Oh, that's right He created satan to take THAT heat!!!

I've been going through a phase of.....If God created all ....and we give God credit for everything good...then He must also take responsibility for all things bad!!!  Oh, that's right He created satan to take THAT heat!!!


Nope still believe we created God, and the Devil.

I've got Sympathy For The Devil in my head.  Who do I think he is?  A fallen angel that does dirty work God cant handle.  Things like testing people.  He's bad for the sake of good.  I have no problem with people who think otherwise.  I just thought I'd try to get the next song stuck in my head.



 

I've got Sympathy For The Devil in my head.  Who do I think he is?  A fallen angel that does dirty work God cant handle.  Things like testing people.  He's bad for the sake of good.  I have no problem with people who think otherwise.  I just thought I'd try to get the next song stuck in my head.



 


Please allow me to introduce myself :)

Please allow me to introduce myself :)


^

You're just the devil in disguise  (? )  ???    :o    ???    .. that's what you are, devil in disguise .........      :P      ;D

^

You're just the devil in disguise  (? )  ???    :o    ???    .. that's what you are, devil in disguise .........      :P      ;D


Look at that face is that the face of evil??
<<<<<<<<<< 

Look at that face is that the face of evil??
<<<<<<<<<<   


I'm green with envy....

I'm green with envy....


Yes you really are ;D

Life isn't inherently fair, is it ? You're right ..  you can say 'I told you so'. I'm right .... no such crowing rights !  >:(


I guess that makes you smart in one sense, even if you're TOTALLY wrong.     8-P


I'm not trying to prove you anything I'm just saying, if you happen to end up being wrong, then I just feel sorry for you.  I could end up being wrong, I'm aware of that.  But neither of us can say we're right until we find out for sure, and that's when we die.

I'm not trying to prove you anything I'm just saying, if you happen to end up being wrong, then I just feel sorry for you.  I could end up being wrong, I'm aware of that.  But neither of us can say we're right until we find out for sure, and that's when we die.


I'm not sure why you should feel 'sorry for me'. You see, if you ARE right (which I don't believe, for a moment) ... well, ASSUMING this god is good, and merciful ... everything most of us would hope (?) ... why the hell should he not let me in / send me to hell, or whatever ... simply cos I didn't believe ?  A convicted killer ... maybe slaughters a load of people,  genuinely sees the errors of his ways, gets absolution just before he's executed/ genuinely gets god/ repentance.  Then you have an atheist, who simply refused to believe ... but was a wonderful, caring person  pretty much their whole lives .... they're not to be let in / going to hell ?    ::)

As somebody who's seen so much injustice in the world ... I reckon god himself wouldn't believe in him ... if he were in MY shoes !      :P    ;D

gosh..bitter much? ::)

It's hard to blame your problems on something that doesn't exist.

...
I am tired of believing what I read only to find some other study that refutes those particular claims. I basically don't trust the scientists with their carbon dating etc. Okay the bone found dates back to 50 million years....and I am supposed to just believe it. It is the same argument as Faith...we are just supposed to believe because someone wrote it. I have become the ultimate cynic....


You're missing the point.  You're not supposed to just believe every study you read.  You're supposed to turn your BS detector on, and come up with opposing evidence.  That's what scientists do, and that's why you read about a study that says that Newton's theory of gravitation's just fine, and another study that says Newton's theory of gravitation can't explain the precession of Mercury's orbit around the sun, but Einstein's does, and goes on to accurately predict what observers will see during the next solar eclipse, you're pretty much stuck with having to throw out Newtonian gravitation for the theories of Special and General Relativity.

Since I don't have the obligatory flowchart on hand, I'll write it out in words:

SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF INQUIRY: 

1) Do research and make experiments to confirm or disprove the best available theory.
2) If your observations support the best available theory, go back to 1 and try again.  (Useful but boring).  Else, go to 3  (Interesting!)
3) Invent a new theory that supports all the existing evidence and the new observation.
4) If you can't come up with an experiment or observation that would disprove the theory, you screwed up step 3.  Go back there and come up with something falsifiable.
5) Go to 1.

RELIGIOUS METHOD OF INQUIRY:

1) God Did It.
2) Go to 1.

But even this is a silly dichotomy,  Science asks how.  Religion (and other forms of philosophy) ask why.  As long as you're willing to differentiate between those two types of questions, there needn't be any conflict between science and religion.

The evidence (and it's a huge body of evidence, including every field of science from nuclear physics to hard rock mining) suggests that the universe is 13.7 billion years old.  The solar system's 4-5 billion years old.  The planet's 4.6 billion years old.  Life has existed here for around 3.5 billion of those years.  65 million years ago (0.065 billion years, practically yesterday in planetary terms) an asteroid impact near the Gulf of Mexico threw up enough crap into the atmosphere that many species died, including the big reptiles.  We're the descendants of the small warm-blooded critters that survived.  (Birds are the descendants of the few small dinosaurs that survived.)  Some of those survivors started to look awfully familiar 1-2 million years ago.  We showed up around 50,000 years ago.  A volcano gave the planet an ecological catastrophe that was enough to knock our numbers down to a few thousand.  They left Africa, exterminated the Neanderthals (probably without interbreeding with them), and flourished.  10,000 years ago, they crossed from the eastern tip of Asia into North America.  Around 5,000 years ago, some of the ones who stuck around the Fertile Crescent discovered that rotten grain could be made into something called "beer", and they settled down to farm crops of grain, rather than merely hunting and gathering.  To keep track of their farming activities, they invented writing and mathematics.  The rest - literally - was history. 

Science has told us how all this took place.  But nowhere in that long fascinating story is there a hint at why it happened.

Scientists are perfectly happy with that limitation.  "How" is a pretty interesting question in its own right.

--- science ends here.  BS and philosophical woo-woo commences here ---

As for theology:  If you must believe in a God, would you rather woship one who slapped the whole thing together in a week (including fake dinosaur bones, fake stars, and other fake evidence to deceive us) and who was able to explain the entire process to a shepherd 4000 years ago?  Or would you rather worship a God who was clever enough to scratch his proverbial beard, set a handful of fundamental physical constants (namely the ratio of the mass of the electron to the proton, fundamental gravitational constant, planck unit, etc.) and flip some sort of switch (we're looking for things that might be that switch, but we don't expect to find them), and let there be light -- light, such that, 13.7 billion years later, on a small blue planet in a distant arm of a random spiral galaxy, sentient lifeforms evolve that ponder not only their own existence, but the existence of God.  Maybe the universe is God-sized lab experiment to answer the question of whether a God can make a universe so interesting that it evolves sentient lifeforms that are predisposed to seek Him out.

If I'm gonna believe in a God, I'm gonna demand something more than a cheap stage magician.  I'm going to go with a God who's clever enough to create a universe complex enough that my species will asking deeper and deeper questions about "how" for as long as it exists.

(God made man in his own image; we all find our own way of returning the favor.)

You're missing the point.  You're not supposed to just believe every study you read.  You're supposed to turn your BS detector on, and come up with opposing evidence.  That's what scientists do, and that's why you read about a study that says that Newton's theory of gravitation's just fine, and another study that says Newton's theory of gravitation can't explain the precession of Mercury's orbit around the sun, but Einstein's does, and goes on to accurately predict what observers will see during the next solar eclipse, you're pretty much stuck with having to throw out Newtonian gravitation for the theories of Special and General Relativity.

Since I don't have the obligatory flowchart on hand, I'll write it out in words:

SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF INQUIRY: 

1) Do research and make experiments to confirm or disprove the best available theory.
2) If your observations support the best available theory, go back to 1 and try again.  (Useful but boring).  Else, go to 3  (Interesting!)
3) Invent a new theory that supports all the existing evidence and the new observation.
4) If you can't come up with an experiment or observation that would disprove the theory, you screwed up step 3.  Go back there and come up with something falsifiable.
5) Go to 1.

RELIGIOUS METHOD OF INQUIRY:

1) God Did It.
2) Go to 1.

But even this is a silly dichotomy,  Science asks how.  Religion (and other forms of philosophy) ask why.  As long as you're willing to differentiate between those two types of questions, there needn't be any conflict between science and religion.

The evidence (and it's a huge body of evidence, including every field of science from nuclear physics to hard rock mining) suggests that the universe is 13.7 billion years old.  The solar system's 4-5 billion years old.  The planet's 4.6 billion years old.  Life has existed here for around 3.5 billion of those years.  65 million years ago (0.065 billion years, practically yesterday in planetary terms) an asteroid impact near the Gulf of Mexico threw up enough crap into the atmosphere that many species died, including the big reptiles.  We're the descendants of the small warm-blooded critters that survived.  (Birds are the descendants of the few small dinosaurs that survived.)  Some of those survivors started to look awfully familiar 1-2 million years ago.  We showed up around 50,000 years ago.  A volcano gave the planet an ecological catastrophe that was enough to knock our numbers down to a few thousand.  They left Africa, exterminated the Neanderthals (probably without interbreeding with them), and flourished.  10,000 years ago, they crossed from the eastern tip of Asia into North America.  Around 5,000 years ago, some of the ones who stuck around the Fertile Crescent discovered that rotten grain could be made into something called "beer", and they settled down to farm crops of grain, rather than merely hunting and gathering.  To keep track of their farming activities, they invented writing and mathematics.  The rest - literally - was history. 

Science has told us how all this took place.  But nowhere in that long fascinating story is there a hint at why it happened.

Scientists are perfectly happy with that limitation.  "How" is a pretty interesting question in its own right.

--- science ends here.  BS and philosophical woo-woo commences here ---

As for theology:  If you must believe in a God, would you rather woship one who slapped the whole thing together in a week (including fake dinosaur bones, fake stars, and other fake evidence to deceive us) and who was able to explain the entire process to a shepherd 4000 years ago?  Or would you rather worship a God who was clever enough to scratch his proverbial beard, set a handful of fundamental physical constants (namely the ratio of the mass of the electron to the proton, fundamental gravitational constant, planck unit, etc.) and flip some sort of switch (we're looking for things that might be that switch, but we don't expect to find them), and let there be light -- light, such that, 13.7 billion years later, on a small blue planet in a distant arm of a random spiral galaxy, sentient lifeforms evolve that ponder not only their own existence, but the existence of God.  Maybe the universe is God-sized lab experiment to answer the question of whether a God can make a universe so interesting that it evolves sentient lifeforms that are predisposed to seek Him out.

If I'm gonna believe in a God, I'm gonna demand something more than a cheap stage magician.  I'm going to go with a God who's clever enough to create a universe complex enough that my species will asking deeper and deeper questions about "how" for as long as it exists.

(God made man in his own image; we all find our own way of returning the favor.)



Couldn't have said all that better myself !    ::)    :-\\    :-[    :(



I THINK ?    ???        :P    ;D      :D

But even this is a silly dichotomy,  Science asks how.  Religion (and other forms of philosophy) ask why.  As long as you're willing to differentiate between those two types of questions, there needn't be any conflict between science and religion.

There comes a direct conflict when religion declares something as "Truth" which science has proven to be nothing of the kind.

I've been having an ongoing argument recently where my protagonist is a YEC who persists in (wilfully?) misunderstanding pretty much everything about science.. according to him there is a global conspiracy among scientists to cover up the evidence for things like a global flood, an earth which is only a few thousand years old..


The evidence (and it's a huge body of evidence, including every field of science from nuclear physics to hard rock mining) suggests that the universe is 13.7 billion years old.  The solar system's 4-5 billion years old.  The planet's 4.6 billion years old.  Life has existed here for around 3.5 billion of those years.  65 million years ago (0.065 billion years, practically yesterday in planetary terms) an asteroid impact near the Gulf of Mexico threw up enough crap into the atmosphere that many species died, including the big reptiles.  We're the descendants of the small warm-blooded critters that survived.  (Birds are the descendants of the few small dinosaurs that survived.)  Some of those survivors started to look awfully familiar 1-2 million years ago.  We showed up around 50,000 years ago. 

..no, it's a conspiracy, I tell you ;)

I'm not sure why you should feel 'sorry for me'. You see, if you ARE right (which I don't believe, for a moment) ... well, ASSUMING this god is good, and merciful ... everything most of us would hope (?) ... why the hell should he not let me in / send me to hell, or whatever ... simply cos I didn't believe ?  A convicted killer ... maybe slaughters a load of people,  genuinely sees the errors of his ways, gets absolution just before he's executed/ genuinely gets god/ repentance.  Then you have an atheist, who simply refused to believe ... but was a wonderful, caring person  pretty much their whole lives .... they're not to be let in / going to hell ?    ::)

As somebody who's seen so much injustice in the world ... I reckon god himself wouldn't believe in him ... if he were in MY shoes !      :P     ;D


It's hard for me to answer questions like that because I'm not God!  :D  I am in no position to judge what He will do or won't do to someone in the end, because I'm not Him.  But consider this, what if there was someone who wanted to be your friend.  They were kind to you and wanted to take care of you, but you deny them as a friend and didn't want any part in it.  The opportunity of friendship will always be there, but you have to take part in it yourself to make it work. 

I believe God doesn't work the world like a giant puppet show.  He created us with free will, but he wants to help and guide us along the way because he knows we fall too easily.  But he can't do that if you (general you) don't let him.  And yes, the world is not perfect at all, but going through bad experiences usually makes us even stronger and wiser people afterwards.

It's hard for me to answer questions like that because I'm not God!  :D  I am in no position to judge what He will do or won't do to someone in the end, because I'm not Him.  But consider this, what if there was someone who wanted to be your friend.  They were kind to you and wanted to take care of you, but you deny them as a friend and didn't want any part in it.  The opportunity of friendship will always be there, but you have to take part in it yourself to make it work. 

I believe God doesn't work the world like a giant puppet show.  He created us with free will, but he wants to help and guide us along the way because he knows we fall too easily.  But he can't do that if you (general you) don't let him.  And yes, the world is not perfect at all, but going through bad experiences usually makes us even stronger and wiser people afterwards.


Question if God is of a spirit nature and not flesh how can we assume the God is male?  I also think it's a bit misleading to state that a Superior Being wants to be a friend.  If he/she/it were a friend God would no longer be a Superior Being and all powerful and knowing.

Question if God is of a spirit nature and not flesh how can we assume the God is male?  I also think it's a bit misleading to state that a Superior Being wants to be a friend.  If he/she/it were a friend God would no longer be a Superior Being and all powerful and knowing.


Yeah I'm aware God may be female, it'd just be kind of redundant if I kept saying he/she all the time.  The analogy with the friend is just to show that both parties need to be involved for something to happen.

Please allow me to introduce myself :)

WOO-WOO! WOO-WOO!
:D

WOO-WOO! WOO-WOO!
:D


I just got that out of my head tonight  no more woo- woo's

It's hard for me to answer questions like that because I'm not God!  :D  I am in no position to judge what He will do or won't do to someone in the end, because I'm not Him.  But consider this, what if there was someone who wanted to be your friend.  They were kind to you and wanted to take care of you, but you deny them as a friend and didn't want any part in it.  The opportunity of friendship will always be there, but you have to take part in it yourself to make it work. 

I believe God doesn't work the world like a giant puppet show.  He created us with free will, but he wants to help and guide us along the way because he knows we fall too easily.  But he can't do that if you (general you) don't let him.  And yes, the world is not perfect at all, but going through bad experiences usually makes us even stronger and wiser people afterwards.


Karma for this. Your answer was a good example of what religion is for some people. As a non-believer all i can do is respect it.

As for this topic...I don't know who's against me but some days it sure feels my luck can't get any worse :-\\

Karma for this. Your answer was a good example of what religion is for some people. As a non-believer all i can do is respect it.

As for this topic...I don't know who's against me but some days it sure feels my luck can't get any worse :-\\

i gave you some karma if that's any help. :(

i gave you some karma if that's any help. :(


Aww thank you. Here is not important but if it translates into the real life then i could use all the karma in the world ;)

Aww thank you. Here is not important but if it translates into the real life then i could use all the karma in the world ;)
iz you can have all the karma i got.  8) maybe i can borrow some too.

iz you can have all the karma i got.  8) maybe i can borrow some too.


You're too sweet :-*

Not a whole lot of good karma I can give.  I'm already coming back as plankton or a snail in my next life.    ;D

Yeah I'm aware God may be female, it'd just be kind of redundant if I kept saying he/she all the time.  The analogy with the friend is just to show that both parties need to be involved for something to happen.


So, if God goes for  a 6.5 on the ricter in India that kills a few thousand people. . . I guess the analogy of friend only implies during stable periods.

Not a whole lot of good karma I can give.  I'm already coming back as plankton or a snail in my next life.    ;D


Could be worse.  You could come back as a molecule of a communicable disease.

Sorry, just trying to cheer you up.

So, if God goes for  a 6.5 on the ricter in India that kills a few thousand people. . . I guess the analogy of friend only implies during stable periods.


God has his reasons for doing things.  He could be doing something like that because the people need to be in heaven now.  The people may have decided to hate God.  It's none of my business what God decides.  I believe it's my business to decide if I want to be his friend or foe. 

Question if God is of a spirit nature and not flesh how can we assume the God is male?  I also think it's a bit misleading to state that a Superior Being wants to be a friend.  If he/she/it were a friend God would no longer be a Superior Being and all powerful and knowing.


The Mormons tried to figure that out.

Could be worse.  You could come back as a molecule of a communicable disease.


That might be fun!
;)

That might be fun!
;)

Interesting thought, though: could a poxvirus or an RNA-based virus be something one could come back reincarnated as?  (as which one could come back reincarnated?)

I doubt it would be fun - live all your life in the dark.. but hey, I guess it's warm.  Your only destiny in life is to infect the next punter.. you get all worked up ready for the Day of Infection.. and it turns out to be a blowjob, so it was all in vain.

That might be fun!
;)


More deadly than the plague!!!

More deadly than the plague!!!

They thought God was against them in Europe back in the 14th century. Then they figured out a way to stop so many rats from stowing away on the ships.  They still didn't know the nature of the pestilance, but they eventually made the connection between the ship rats and whole port villages dying off in a week!
:o

They thought God was against them in Europe back in the 14th century. Then they figured out a way to stop so many rats from stowing away on the ships.  They still didn't know the nature of the pestilance, but they eventually made the connection between the ship rats and whole port villages dying off in a week!
:o


I think that mindset was in place until the last batch of wide spread yellow fever.  If it can't be controlled or cured sure bet God will be blamed.

turns out the rats were against them.

I think that mindset was in place until the last batch of wide spread yellow fever.  If it can't be controlled or cured sure bet God will be blamed.


Hulk Hogan blamed God on things right now.

Looks like this should be called "The Longest Religious Thread".

Hulk Hogan blamed God on things right now.

Looks like this should be called "The Longest Religious Thread".


There's no way he can blame God for the stupid hairstyle.  Everything else is debatable.

turns out the rats were against them.

The fleas were against the rats...

The fleas were against the rats...


Quick someone call Terminex :D

The fleas were against the rats...


sounds like a line from the poem "The house that Jack built"  ;D

Maybe I should listen to Satan's Dad. If you're 25, forget it. So I might as well ride the bus forever and call myself 'Cleveland' in real life since I feel like the city. (It will never rise above it all.) http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad5.gif

Maybe I should listen to Satan's Dad. If you're 25, forget it. So I might as well ride the bus forever and call myself 'Cleveland' in real life since I feel like the city. (It will never rise above it all.) http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad5.gif


Oh stop.  My sister finally started driving at the age of 32.  If you want to drive, then you will.  I don't think God has anything to do with your ambitions.

Maybe I should listen to Satan's Dad. If you're 25, forget it. So I might as well ride the bus forever and call myself 'Cleveland' in real life since I feel like the city. (It will never rise above it all.) http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sad5.gif


I know a lot of people who are older than you that still don't have their license or drive. It will happen, be patient.

Is this the reason you don't drive a medical one?  I know you mentioned having been diagnosed as autistic. 

If the only thing holding you back is you, then Reynolds is right, God has zero to do with it.  I also got my license at 32!

I was such a bad driver at first I quit drivers ed.  The instructor looked like he was on a rollercoaster and he kept slamming down that passenger-side brake to hollar at me!  I taught myself pretty much.  Smashed up my father's Jeep in the process, but nobody got injured unless you count my dad's billfold.  I got my license when I was 20 but had no car to drive until I was 24.  I became a cautious defensive driver.  If I had a car given to me for my 17th birthday, I wouldn't have been around to celebrate my 18th!
:o