http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/19357204.html

This happened in my neck-of-the-woods. Two boys wanted to wear their Military Uniforms during Graduation, but the Principal said that if they don't wear a cap and gown, they don't walk down the aisle.

I'm no Military freak, but putting a cap and gown underneath your Military Uniform is a disgrace.

It's a graduation, not a Village People concert.
::)

IN THE NAVY!!!!

Pretty scummy behaviour on the part of the school administration.  But then I have always seen most career school administrators as your basic NDTBF's anyway.

I regularly go to various black tie affairs, and it is not unusual for servicemen and servicewomen to wear their dress uniforms.  They look really snappy, and it shows their own pride in service to their country.

Now..before I say this, please don't get me wrong. I am proud of the men and women that serve our country...I really admire them, I DO...however, why do some of them feel the need to wear their uniform EVERYWHERE they go? I mean...I see nothing wrong with wearing your uniform during your wedding ceremony (that's your own business), or other events...but it seems like some seem to want acknowledgment everywhere they go.  Are the uniforms really that comfy...or are some just looking for extra attention?

Not that it would be a big deal to let these guys wear their uniforms during graduation...but they cannot really make exceptions, I suppose. If they let them do it...then they will have to let others do it too (at other points in time..and with other uniforms/clothing/etc).

Pretty scummy behaviour on the part of the school administration.  But then I have always seen most career school administrators as your basic NDTBF's anyway.

I regularly go to various black tie affairs, and it is not unusual for servicemen and servicewomen to wear their dress uniforms.  They look really snappy, and it shows their own pride in service to their country.

I dunno, it always reminds me of Doug Neidermeyer ("You're all worthless and weak! Now drop and give me twenty!")
:P

I'm no Military freak, but putting a cap and gown underneath your Military Uniform is a disgrace.


...to the Principal of the school that had the arrogance and hubris to demand it. 

I'm just another civilian too, but even without reading the story, I'd say these Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines adapted and overcame.  An innovative solution that made the Principal look like the zero-tolerance/zero-thinking petty bureaucrat he is, and that won't necessarily get 'em in hot water with their immediate superiors, because their immediate superiors probably won't be attending graduation.  Good on 'em.


Not that it would be a big deal to let these guys wear their uniforms during graduation...but they cannot really make exceptions, I suppose. If they let them do it...then they will have to let others do it too (at other points in time..and with other uniforms/clothing/etc).


In other words, the dress code could be amended to say "Cap and gown shall be worn, or the dress uniform of a military serviceman", and it would look like every other dress code on the planet.  Wearing a military uniform to one's wedding (or to other black tie events) is acceptable for precisely the same reason that wearing a military uniform to a graduation ceremony is acceptable.

It's the "but they cannot really make exceptions" that's at the root of kids being arrested for carrying a halls cough drop or a plastic butter knife.  "They" can't make exceptions?  Who is the Principal, but the embodiment of Them?  If anyone can make an exception, it oughta be him.  But it's not making exception; it's recognizing that human behavior can never be completely codified, so it's necessary to draw parallels from existing social precedents and exercising one's power of judgement.  Anyone over the age of 10 can do it, and everyone over the age of 18 is legally assumed to be capable of it.

But since requires at least some degree thought, exercising judgement is the thing that most terrifies the hell out of petty bureaucrats.  Which not only explains our utter failure of a Principal -- it explains the utter failure of the public education system. 

Senior year in high school, a few of my classmates had joined the military over the summer.  Some wore their uniforms to school.  Some did not.  The ones who did were total dicks and bone stupid.
::)

When I was student teaching, I wore my uniform to school one day-on Halloween. The kids got a kick out of it. At first they asked if my husband was in and I informed them that the uniform was mine-I earned all the stripes on it as well as all the ribbons. (They called me "Sarge" after that.) Ok, some may have thought that was a bit too much-using my uniform as a Halloween costume. Costume or not-as a retired serviceperson, I have every right to wear my uniform where and when I d@mn well please. I have EARNED that right. And I feel it is the same thing here. I think those kids have earned the right to wear their uniforms if they so chose.



Cat

my damn high school did the same thing to me when i showed up to my graduation ceremony dressed like a dirty hippie.

...to the Principal of the school that had the arrogance and hubris to demand it. 

I'm just another civilian too, but even without reading the story, I'd say these Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines adapted and overcame.  An innovative solution that made the Principal look like the zero-tolerance/zero-thinking petty bureaucrat he is, and that won't necessarily get 'em in hot water with their immediate superiors, because their immediate superiors probably won't be attending graduation.  Good on 'em.

In other words, the dress code could be amended to say "Cap and gown shall be worn, or the dress uniform of a military serviceman", and it would look like every other dress code on the planet.  Wearing a military uniform to one's wedding (or to other black tie events) is acceptable for precisely the same reason that wearing a military uniform to a graduation ceremony is acceptable.

It's the "but they cannot really make exceptions" that's at the root of kids being arrested for carrying a halls cough drop or a plastic butter knife.  "They" can't make exceptions?  Who is the Principal, but the embodiment of Them?  If anyone can make an exception, it oughta be him.  But it's not making exception; it's recognizing that human behavior can never be completely codified, so it's necessary to draw parallels from existing social precedents and exercising one's power of judgement.  Anyone over the age of 10 can do it, and everyone over the age of 18 is legally assumed to be capable of it.

But since requires at least some degree thought, exercising judgement is the thing that most terrifies the hell out of petty bureaucrats.  Which not only explains our utter failure of a Principal -- it explains the utter failure of the public education system. 



Well of course they CAN do it, but all I was saying is that if they bend the rules for some groups...why shouldn't they do it for everyone else as well. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been allowed to wear the uniforms...I'm only trying to think as they might be thinking..regarding this situation.

  I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been allowed to wear the uniforms...I'm only trying to think as they might be thinking..regarding this situation.


And there's that "t" word again.  There's only one "t" in "administrate", and the one you're using ain't it.

And there's that "t" word again.  There's only one "t" in "administrate", and the one you're using ain't it.


well, I'm certainly not the one that makes the rules...if I was that person...perhaps things would be different.

I don't know why, but I was under the impression that you were required to wear your uniform when you are active duty (or at least for the first year or two) everywhere you go if you are not on base.  If anyone caught you out of uniform then you would get demerits or whatever it is they hand out in the military.

my damn high school did the same thing to me when i showed up to my graduation ceremony dressed like a dirty hippie.

Yeah, well dirty hippie didn't account for 'nothin' did it?  Not like a man in a uniform!  This wouldn't be happening if Dick Nixon were in the White House, by gum!
:D

well, I'm certainly not the one that makes the rules...if I was that person...perhaps things would be different.


"Do right.  Always work.  Go to church.  Respect those in authority over you..."
  - Cabaret Voltaire, Sensoria, 1984

Which is the problem. 

By the Peter Principle, everyone rises to a level at which they're incompetent, beyond which they can't be promoted further.  If you're good at your job, you get a promotion, right?  When you stop being good at your job, you stop getting promotions, right? 

Administrators aren't paid to make rules, they're paid to enforce rules made by other people.  (School boards aren't paid to make sensible rules, they're paid to make rules that placate angry people who might jeopardize their cushy jobs by writing letters to their superiors, and so on up the pyramid.)

For an even better case in point, here's something from today's Worse Than Failure.

And what that poor HR drone did to that bewildered job interview candidate was only the tip of the iceberg.

Which is something to think about at the TSA checkpoint, if you're among those who still put up with flying.  The TSA goon knows as well as you do that he's not keeping you safe, but he doesn't care either, because he's Just Following Orders.  As long as Procedure was followed, he doesn't care if you live or die.  That's why he'll give you the third degree about that 4-ounce tube of toothpaste, but completely ignore the REDACTED.  Unfortunately, he's also livid with frustration at this fact, and seeing as how he's got legal carte blanche to take out his frustrations on the traveling public... well, we all know how that ends up.

Airports are nothing more than places where the Stanford Prison Experiment can be played out on formerly-free adults.  Schools (see, this thread was originally about a school, and although I've gone full circle, I've finally found my way back to the original topic) are the places where the potentially-free citizens get softened up. 

And to come full circle on the meta-topic, I'm gonna pull out another bit of CabVolt.  The samples in Don't Argue are from Cold War era Air Force films (a fact I learned from this board and likely sourced from here, so that's three full circles in one post, and in passing, I hereby declare TRIFECTA!), and have now become essential advice for survival when dealing with any authority figure in post-9/11 America.

"Don't let it fool you.  You are in enemy country.  Be alert.  Suspicious of everyone.  Take no chances.  They have had no free speech.  (?)had no free press.  They were brought up on straight propaganda.  They have been trained to hate and destroy.  Don't argue with them.  Don't try to change their point of view.  You will not be friendly.  You will be aloof... watchful... and suspicious.  Don't clasp that hand.  It's not the kind of a hand you can clasp in friendship."
  - Cabaret Voltaire, Don't Argue, 1987

Sigh.  20 years ago, I pondered (but never had the testicular fortitude to go through with) putting on a uniform and taking on the risk of getting shot down over Russian airspace over my offence at the idea that any human being anywhere on earth would have to live under that kind of a society.  Last year?  Last year I put that same track on my iPod and listened to it on endless repeat while standing in a security checkpoint, just to keep myself sane.  And today?  Today I'm ready to drain this last beer and call it a night.  So it goes.  Who is John Galt?

Hey, if I'm not part of the solution, at least I can be part of the problem, right? :)

Karma +1 for 2 CabVolt quotes!

"Do right.  Always work.  Go to church.  Respect those in authority over you..."
  - Cabaret Voltaire, Sensoria, 1984

Which is the problem. 

By the Peter Principle, everyone rises to a level at which they're incompetent, beyond which they can't be promoted further.  If you're good at your job, you get a promotion, right?  When you stop being good at your job, you stop getting promotions, right? 

Administrators aren't paid to make rules, they're paid to enforce rules made by other people.  (School boards aren't paid to make sensible rules, they're paid to make rules that placate angry people who might jeopardize their cushy jobs by writing letters to their superiors, and so on up the pyramid.)

For an even better case in point, here's something from today's Worse Than Failure.

And what that poor HR drone did to that bewildered job interview candidate was only the tip of the iceberg.

Which is something to think about at the TSA checkpoint, if you're among those who still put up with flying.  The TSA goon knows as well as you do that he's not keeping you safe, but he doesn't care either, because he's Just Following Orders.  As long as Procedure was followed, he doesn't care if you live or die.  That's why he'll give you the third degree about that 4-ounce tube of toothpaste, but completely ignore the REDACTED.  Unfortunately, he's also livid with frustration at this fact, and seeing as how he's got legal carte blanche to take out his frustrations on the traveling public... well, we all know how that ends up.

Airports are nothing more than places where the Stanford Prison Experiment can be played out on formerly-free adults.  Schools (see, this thread was originally about a school, and although I've gone full circle, I've finally found my way back to the original topic) are the places where the potentially-free citizens get softened up. 

And to come full circle on the meta-topic, I'm gonna pull out another bit of CabVolt.  The samples in Don't Argue are from Cold War era Air Force films (a fact I learned from this board and likely sourced from here, so that's three full circles in one post, and in passing, I hereby declare TRIFECTA!), and have now become essential advice for survival when dealing with any authority figure in post-9/11 America.

"Don't let it fool you.  You are in enemy country.  Be alert.  Suspicious of everyone.  Take no chances.  They have had no free speech.  (?)had no free press.  They were brought up on straight propaganda.  They have been trained to hate and destroy.  Don't argue with them.  Don't try to change their point of view.  You will not be friendly.  You will be aloof... watchful... and suspicious.  Don't clasp that hand.  It's not the kind of a hand you can clasp in friendship."
  - Cabaret Voltaire, Don't Argue, 1987

Sigh.  20 years ago, I pondered (but never had the testicular fortitude to go through with) putting on a uniform and taking on the risk of getting shot down over Russian airspace over my offence at the idea that any human being anywhere on earth would have to live under that kind of a society.  Last year?  Last year I put that same track on my iPod and listened to it on endless repeat while standing in a security checkpoint, just to keep myself sane.  And today?  Today I'm ready to drain this last beer and call it a night.  So it goes.  Who is John Galt?

Hey, if I'm not part of the solution, at least I can be part of the problem, right? :)



um.....ok. ???

um.....ok. ???


LOL, yeah, like Bluto in Animal house, I was rolling, so I went with the rant :)

The short version:  Our digression started when you claimed that "they cannot really make exceptions".

So skip my rant and read the WTF entry.

Doesn't matter whether it's school principals and military-uniforms vs. cap-and-gown, or human resources vs. a policy that says she has to verify past employment by calling the candidate's boss, even if the candidate was self-employed.  The notion that "they can't make exceptions" is the bureaucratic cancer that's killed America, and that's the point on which I took such exception.

You later clarification of "I'm certainly not the one that makes the rules" is cool -- at least you realize They're nuts -- but it isn't much of a solution, because all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good (people) to do nothing.  (Of course, on that point, I'm part of the problem too, which was how I ended my rant.  The CabVolt angle was more of an inspiration, because it had been on random play when I read that morning's "The Daily WTF" entry, and the rest is history...)

I don't know why, but I was under the impression that you were required to wear your uniform when you are active duty (or at least for the first year or two) everywhere you go if you are not on base.  If anyone caught you out of uniform then you would get demerits or whatever it is they hand out in the military.


In most cases, the military uniform is the only thing that military personnel can wear.  It is a priviledge to wear "civilian" clothes.  However, with the increasing threat of terrorism and such, the rules have become more lenient.  A military commander has the right to determine what they can and can't wear on or off base, but it is highly recommended now that the uniform is not worn while flying or overseas.  I personally didn't wear my uniform everywhere I went, but to some it is an honor.  Others just want to show off.  Either way, I think they have that right since they are serving their country.  Is it really wrong to wear a uniform and be proud of it? 

Is it really wrong to wear a uniform and be proud of it? 


Thanks for the explanation.

I don't think it's wrong, but then I'm biased because I think men look rather hot in uniforms and women look rather smart.  So...you know...just a personal preference I guess.  ;D