I think, out of fairness, if it is  not already happening, that anyone who was put behind bars by some aggressive lawyers, and found later to be innocent from their DNA test,should be able to sue or be paid for the time spent behind bars by the law firm or prosecutors!


There is nothing so hapless when I hear someone who KNEW they were innocent of the crime , sits in a jail/prison because they couldn't afford the proper people or system to prove their innocence.

Now as they are released(some ater 20 years), they should get paid by the ones set out to convict them OR if the case is a victim just wasn't sure and said they did it or for getting back at the person-(later we hear they weren't so sure), that person should give the convict something for their troubles.

How about prisoners who are cleared only AFTER they've already been put to death?

How about prisoners who are cleared only AFTER they've already been put to death?


That's why I'm against the death penalty.  Well, one reason.

If the state has incarcerated an innocent person I think it is in the interest of society as a whole to help that person start again when he or she is released.

Now as they are released(some ater 20 years), they should get paid by the ones set out to convict them OR if the case is a victim just wasn't sure and said they did it or for getting back at the person-(later we hear they weren't so sure), that person should give the convict something for their troubles. 

Especially those cases where the police/prosecution *knew* the person they were prosecuting was innocent, but went for a conviction anyway - this has happened too often.  We don't prosecute for perjury/perverting the course of justice anything like often enough.


How about prisoners who are cleared only AFTER they've already been put to death?

That's why I'm dead against the death penalty, too

If I'm not mistaken, you can usually sue the state if they wrongfully convict you.

If I'm not mistaken, you can usually sue the state if they wrongfully convict you.


Whatever the law practices are, I thought the prosecutor would say 'from everything we presented, we thought they were guilty' so they would have to prove malice-that they just wanted that person incarcerated.

That's why I'm dead against the death penalty, too


That's some constitution you have there to let 15000 guilty convicts live so 1 innocent one may live.

There were times(maybe still), in small towns that have it in for someone they pickout and don't like...

  They should be justly compensated.  Cleared postmortem, the family should be justly compensated...

Whatever the law practices are, I thought the prosecutor would say 'from everything we presented, we thought they were guilty' so they would have to prove malice-that they just wanted that person incarcerated.




  A prosecutor acting within the bounds of law should have nothing to fear.  Miscarriages of justice are one thing, overturning a sentence from DNA evidence is another matter...

 

lmfao savier that was an ignorant comment, 1 good life is worth a million, and those 15000 guilty prisoners don't have to be killed


I see your... point it is true to spare the innocent...I'm fed up with the latest people coming out saying how they lied because they were caught in the moment of the trial, another saying they just didn't want to turn in the guy that really did it.then you have the guys in jail finally coming clean admitting THEY did the crime while a partner is in with them...

I still believe in the death penalty though...if someone is so uncontrollable and rotten to kill of an innocent person..WE are NOT killing innocent people, we are killing the human crud off our society's shoes who spoiled other family/relative members lives for good-depriving them of love from the dead victim.

It amazes me to hear someone say SPARE THEM/DO NOT KILL GUILTY KILLERS..we are NOT imitating them, as stated, we are eliminating crap!

But the Mike Farrels of the USA are too off base for me to even dissecting....what are they doing by keeping 'things' like this alive?

DNA proving is a good move. 

****And speaking of ridiculous..hear about the convict who is obese and says since he can't eat more than the 3500 calorie meals the prison offers and is claim CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT? IT'S HIS RIGHT TO EAT NORMALLY-AS HE WAS USED TO....IMHO he lost his rights the minute he was convicted!(in case he's reading this)EAT THAT !

Chill, Saver.  You're just on the wrong side of histry, that's all.

Capital punishment in the democratic world is going the way of the star chamber and Catherine wheel.  The United States will cling to it for a few more decades, but it only makes us look barbaric in the eyes of the rest of the world.  If there is no constitutional prohibition of the practice, most states that now use it will abolish it and federal government will follow. 

Of course, that is my optimistic scenario in which the people of the U.S. reverse the fascist tendancies of the current polity.

If the Bushies get the legacy they want, we can look forward to trials by tribunal of dominionist billionaires and all the torture toys of the 14th century taken out of the mothballs!

If the defendant is black, Latin, Muslim, or found to be a liberal, DNA testing will only be applied to establish guilt.
:o

Chill, Saver.  You're just on the wrong side of histry, that's all.

Capital punishment in the democratic world is going the way of the star chamber and Catherine wheel.  The United States will cling to it for a few more decades, but it only makes us look barbaric in the eyes of the rest of the world.  If there is no constitutional prohibition of the practice, most states that now use it will abolish it and federal government will follow. 

Of course, that is my optimistic scenario in which the people of the U.S. reverse the fascist tendancies of the current polity.

If the Bushies get the legacy they want, we can look forward to trials by tribunal of dominionist billionaires and all the torture toys of the 14th century taken out of the mothballs!

If the defendant is black, Latin, Muslim, or found to be a liberal, DNA testing will only be applied to establish guilt.
:o



And we can send all those nogoodniks to therapy and they'll never kill or be abhorently violent again..ahh that's all it takes...

On the plus side for you, we don't chop off heads anymore...but doesn't UTAH still give the choice to be executed by firing squad? When will they abolish that...we've had dems when that was in action.

And we can send all those nogoodniks to therapy and they'll never kill or be abhorently violent again..ahh that's all it takes...

On the plus side for you, we don't chop off heads anymore...but doesn't UTAH still give the choice to be executed by firing squad? When will they abolish that...we've had dems when that was in action.

Oh for chrissakes it's a lost cause!
:D

Oh for chrissakes it's a lost cause!
:D


Are you one of those MIKE FARRELITES?

Because if you are, He is such a blow hard and sympathizer siding with the lowest of the low..criminals have rights too! Blah blah blah..while families have to live the rest of their lives with emotional pain and scars.

If you are just a passifist, and want the world to live as one...let's all hold hands and put the 'baddies' in a room and let them 'think' about what they did and the world will all get along!
GEEZ...

If you are one who looks for solutions to the minute percentage of those who are criminally insane..good luck...let's keep them permanently sedated..there you go, those are choices better than killing guilty killers who don't deserve another day of breathing. 

 

Are you one of those MIKE FARRELITES?

Because if you are, He is such a blow hard and sympathizer siding with the lowest of the low..criminals have rights too! Blah blah blah..while families have to live the rest of their lives with emotional pain and scars.

If you are just a passifist, and want the world to live as one...let's all hold hands and put the 'baddies' in a room and let them 'think' about what they did and the world will all get along!
GEEZ...

If you are one who looks for solutions to the minute percentage of those who are criminally insane..good luck...let's keep them permanently sedated..there you go, those are choices better than killing guilty killers who don't deserve another day of breathing. 

 



If you're that he!! bent on living in a country that kills in the name of "justice" why don't you just move to Saudi Arabia, or maybe Iran?

If you're that he!! bent on living in a country that kills in the name of "justice" why don't you just move to Saudi Arabia, or maybe Iran?

Problem is they don't go much for Christians over there.
:-\\

Problem is they don't go much for Christians over there.
:-\\


  And you can't find a decent strip club anywhere.  I've heard they charge a "pole" tax on the dancers...

If you're that he!! bent on living in a country that kills in the name of "justice" why don't you just move to Saudi Arabia, or maybe Iran?


Because we live IN a country that carries out justified executions...We constantly see the Saudi mentality displayed and I can't go for all of that.but the issue is addressed here anyway.

Are you familiar with the scene with the Saudis or it ay be 3rd worlders, who carry out the 'chop off an arm for theft' sentence..you go there and most likely if you see a person without a certain limb, you may have beliefs they may have been a theif/robber...thing is many there are not just missing 1 limb...hence, most likely they robbed/shoplifted again.

That sure didn't deter them and how long has that been going on? What is the answer in those petty cases then? Reform, educate?
Many couldn't care if they lose more than one..what's up with that?

Just another question on dealing fairly with criminals.
 

That's some constitution you have there to let 15000 guilty convicts live so 1 innocent one may live.

Your stats are so far wrong, it's not worth arguing with you unless you start to consider things as they are rather than how your skewed perspective sees them to be.


Just another question on dealing fairly with criminals.

There's also the question of dealing fairly with those accused who aren't actually criminals, and giving them a fair trial.  As things stand, how well you do at trial seems to be directly proportional to the amount you spend on defence laywers, so the word "fair" is hard to justify.

Your stats are so far wrong, it's not worth arguing with you unless you start to consider things as they are rather than how your skewed perspective sees them to be.
There's also the question of dealing fairly with those accused who aren't actually criminals, and giving them a fair trial.  As things stand, how well you do at trial seems to be directly proportional to the amount you spend on defence lawyers, so the word "fair" is hard to justify.


When you refer to statistics..I overshot the number...as of 2007 there were approx.3300 on death row in the US-(some may have convictions in 2 states)..so how many do you think would be innocent?

Thanks again, as mentioned, to the latest testing or advancements in science to straighten out the findings we can be more precise as to the person we have IS the guilty one.

For 'fair' trials, are you saying EVERYONE needs a Harvard lawyer to argue their case? What about the various races that are found guilty and the many rich Caucasians who are NOT?
Who is deciding? The lawyer or the 12 chosen to determine for themselves based on evidence...?

***BONUS: TO THOSE CLAIMING NO DETERRENT ,I REFER TO AN ARTICLE IN 'CASEYS CRITICAL THINKING' COLUMN:
  The death penalty is not a deterrent against violent crime.
The death penalty as a deterrent to crime is not the issue. Capital punishment is, pardon the redundancy, a punishment for crime. As a punishment, the death penalty is 100% effective--every time it is used, the prisoner dies.

Additionally, the death penalty is actually 100% effective as a deterrent to crime: the murderer will never commit another crime once he has been executed. While there is no proof that any innocents have been executed in this century, there is an abundance of evidence that prisoners who either escaped or were released early murdered innocent victims again.13 Professor Paul Cassell points out that


Out of a sample of 164 paroled Georgia murderers, eight committed subsequent murders within seven years of release. A study of twenty Oregon murderers released on parole in 1979 found that one (i.e., five percent) had committed a subsequent homicide within five years of release. Another study found that of 11,404 persons originally convicted of "willful homicide" and released during 1965 and 1974, 34 were returned to prison for commission of a subsequent criminal homicide during the first year alone.14
Even those who are not released but still serve life terms murder again. Cassell further notes that, "At least five federal prison officers have been killed since December 1982, and the inmates in at least three of the incidents were already serving life sentences for murder."15 Had these prisoners been executed, innocent lives would have been saved. The death penalty is, without question, a deterrent to murder.

(Seven recent studies make it clear that executions deter murders and murder rates increase substantially during moratoriums.)

   And you can't find a decent strip club anywhere.  I've heard they charge a "pole" tax on the dancers...

Karma +1 for the worst pun of the season!
:D

I know, since the death penalty is 100% effective, let's execute all who might commit murder, then we don't have to worry about them every doing it!
::)

Karma +1 for the worst pun of the season!
:D

I know, since the death penalty is 100% effective, let's execute all who might commit murder, then we don't have to worry about them every doing it!
::)


With that logic why don't we charge anyone 'love-making' with rape and anyone putting people behind bars with kidnapping....sorry your logic is way off.

With that logic why don't we charge anyone 'love-making' with rape and anyone putting people behind bars with kidnapping....sorry your logic is way off.

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!

We haaaaaave a winner! 

Nothing gets past you does it?

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!

We haaaaaave a winner! 

Nothing gets past you does it?


HAHAHA!

Good, I'll quit while I'm ahead.