http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080325/ts_afp/chinaunresttibetrights

I'm just looking at this story and the crackdown in Tibet and wondering.  Hey, China does all kinds of rotten stuff and so does the U.S.  I don't see a boycott in the offing.  But it might be the moral thing to do.
???

i think it would be great if we boycotted the olympics but i dont think we will. china's too much of a business partner and competitor. if we were serious about human rights we'd speak up about taiwan.

I agree, I agree.
::)

It's not going to happen,too much money at stake and let's face is absolutely not fair to the athletes.
I always thought the Moscow boycott was an awful decision too.
That said i think it's great what's happening because the situation in Tibet has never been more talked about and that can mean a change will happen soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080325/ts_afp/chinaunresttibetrights

I'm just looking at this story and the crackdown in Tibet and wondering.  Hey, China does all kinds of rotten stuff and so does the U.S.  I don't see a boycott in the offing.  But it might be the moral thing to do.
???


  Personally, I'm all for a boycott.  It's an enormous waste of resources for any nation, but anyway...

  Heads of state boycotting the opening & probably closing ceremonies would seem in order, however, those are less about the athletes & more about a global political made for tv lovefest...

  Besides, after 2 weeks of boycotting, I highly doubt the Chinese would amend/reverse many of their hardline stances.  So be it - burn them with economic measures and/or a voluntary travel boycott commencing after the games...

It's not going to happen,too much money at stake and let's face is absolutely not fair to the athletes.
I always thought the Moscow boycott was an awful decision too.
That said i think it's great what's happening because the situation in Tibet has never been more talked about and that can mean a change will happen soon.


The 1980 Boycott ruined America as well as the Iranian Hostile.

It seemed that in the 70's, the U.S. was looked down upon. :-[

I would imagine that if the E.U Nations went ahead with their threat to boycott the U.S would as well.

I'd be rather tickled seeing a few African sorts an Australian running around an empty stadium.

It would be fun, but it's not going to happen.  I think we should just have fun with it...

Like, we could have an all-Buddhist monk team for basketball.  The Dalai Lama could be a commentator for the American TV coverage.

It would be fun, but it's not going to happen.  I think we should just have fun with it...

Like, we could have an all-Buddhist monk team for basketball.  The Dalai Lama could be a commentator for the American TV coverage.

The Buddhist monk basketball team?  Can you self-immolate on a fastbreak?
:D

I'd like to see the Lama on color commentary:  Pacifist, no offence, therefor, no need defense!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080325/ts_afp/chinaunresttibetrights

I'm just looking at this story and the crackdown in Tibet and wondering.  Hey, China does all kinds of rotten stuff and so does the U.S.  I don't see a boycott in the offing.  But it might be the moral thing to do.
???
Well,the US has done some rotten stuff too.The Olympics should be about putting aside politics.

  Chinese athletes, with the olympic torch, are coming through a gigantic protest in San Francisco tomorrow.  I hope nobody gets stupid... :-\\ 

What does China want Tibet for, anyway?

No oil, no natural resources and you'd think they had enough people and land to worry about as things are..

What does China want Tibet for, anyway?
i hear the food's good.

What does China want Tibet for, anyway?

No oil, no natural resources and you'd think they had enough people and land to worry about as things are..


Tibet is mountainous and has great potential for being a great location for a military installation. 

What does China want Tibet for, anyway?

No oil, no natural resources and you'd think they had enough people and land to worry about as things are..


The main reason the Beijing government wants to assert its sovereignty over Tibet is that if Tibet is allowed to leave the country, it will provide inspiration and justification to independence movements in many of the other Chinese provinces which would also like to break away from the republic.

i hear the food's good.

There's a Tibetan restaurant next town over from me.  It does well with the spiritual sophisticates here in the Valley.  I went there once with friends and...remember that scene in the Temple of Doom?  But I'm a knave when it comes to food, kind of a burger-and-fries guy!
:-[

There's a Tibetan restaurant next town over from me.  It does well with the spiritual sophisticates here in the Valley.  I went there once with friends and...remember that scene in the Temple of Doom?  But I'm a nave when it comes to food, kind of a burger-and-fries guy!
:-[


If it makes you feel any better they've got a few "burger and fries" joints in Tibet.  Being in an "enlightened" culture can be boring at times. :)

What does China want Tibet for, anyway?


Same thing Russia wanted Eastern Europe for: a buffer zone against a potential adversary.

In the case of the Cold War, the USSR wanted to have Eastern Europe as a buffer zone against a potential conflict with the West.

In the case of China, it sees Tibet as a buffer zone against a potential threat from India.

Same thing Russia wanted Eastern Europe for: a buffer zone against a potential adversary.

In the case of the Cold War, the USSR wanted to have Eastern Europe as a buffer zone against a potential conflict with the West.

In the case of China, it sees Tibet as a buffer zone against a potential threat from India.

Now I'm trying to recall, what's the beef between China and India again?  There's always something.

Now I'm trying to recall, what's the beef between China and India again?  There's always something.



Tibet as a buffer makes alot of sense until the Chinese figure out that India could lob an ICBM their way.

Tibet as a buffer makes alot of sense until the Chinese figure out that India could lob an ICBM their way.


The difference in engineering requirements between ICBMs and IRBMs is significant. 

One's intercontinental (US/USSR).  One's intermediate-range (500-1000 miles or so, depending on how you define "intermediate").

Everyone has SRBM technology; WW2-era Germany's V-2 was an SRBM, as were Saddam's SCUDs. 

IRBMs are a little tougher.  Most mid-sized powers have 'em, typically sourced from the Soviets via North Korea. 

ICBMs are rarer still.  A few mid-sized powers have 'em (Israel, India), but none have publicly admitted to weaponizing them.  You demonstrate the potential by launching a satellite into orbit.  The implied message is that next time, it might be something that weighs about as much as a satellite, but isn't a satellite.

Problem is, they cost a freaking fortune.  Without Tibet as a buffer zone, China would have to deal with Indian IRBMs, which India could produce in effectively unlimited quantities.  By taking Tibet as a buffer zone, China forces India to improve their IRBM fleet (at high cost to India) or build out an ICBM fleet (at huge cost and no strategic benefit to India, because India's never felt any need to project power globally). 

Sucks for the Tibetans. 

MaxwellSmart:  Not sure about China/India, but with a billion people on each side of the border, it's understandable that they're both looking to hedge their bets by taking as much land as they can.  Which, from the point of view of China's leadership is the ironic part.  There was never any big cultural beef between Tibet and China until Mao created one.  There was nothing in pre-1949 Tibetan culture that would have precluded Tibet from voluntarily acting as a neutral (or even Chinese-allied) party.  (Of course, there was plenty in 1950s-Maoist Chinese culture that precluded anyone from doing anything voluntarily!)  So here we are: because of China's 50-year-old screwup, it feels it now has to assimilate Tibet into the Empire -- because 50 years of bad blood has certainly predisposed Tibet to jump to India's side at the first hint of a conflict.

What China did with Tibet is sorta like the mistake we didn't make with Japan after WW2, and with the mistake we probably did make in Iraq.  60 years after we bombed every one of their major cities into rubble and finished two of their remaining cities with nukes, Japan and the West are still different cultures.  Sometimes we're mutually weirded-out by that difference, but other times we mutually think it's pretty cool.  All things considered, we get along pretty well.  Ditto for (South) Korea and (both halves of unified) Vietnam.  The Middle East in 2050?  It's still too early to tell, but I'm betting not so much. 

OK then it's settled.  We will partition Tibet as follows:

1.  Northern "Chinese territory buffer zone" and haven for Tibetan Muslims
2.  Central Independent Tibet for followers of the Tibetan Buddhists
3.  Southern "Indian territory buffer zone" and haven for Tibetan Hindus

I'll call the U.N. and have them start pouring in the peacekeeping troops post haste.

OK then it's settled.  We will partition Tibet as follows:

1.  Northern "Chinese territory buffer zone" and haven for Tibetan Muslims
2.  Central Independent Tibet for followers of the Tibetan Buddhists
3.  Southern "Indian territory buffer zone" and haven for Tibetan Hindus

I'll call the U.N. and have them start pouring in the peacekeeping troops post haste.

Then one of your folks will give one of my folks the finger and one of my folks will throw a rock at one of your folks, and then....
:o

What said it all for me was dump culture.  In a lot of the big cities of the world (10+ million) you have a whole class of people who survive on the refuse of others.  In Manila there are about 150,000 people who subsist solely on the city dump.  What matter is not that they all live in the dump; what matters is who gets to pick what and where.  The elite get the scrap metal and the electronics, below them are the wood and plastics people, and then you've got your wretched of the dump wading through the offal and muck.  It looks like they all live in the dump, but how much do we know about the dump?