Just wondering what's going on....

On Wednesday 2/13/08 in Oxnard, CA a 14 year old shot a 15 year old twice in the head at school.  The 14 year old, just 3 weeks into his 14th yr btw, is being charged as an adult for murder and a hate crime because the victim was openly gay.

On Thursday, the NIU shootings occurred.  4 women and a man killed by a gunman who killed also himself.

Then last night I'm watching the local Fox affiliate news from NYC and the top three stories are

1) arrest made in the Cleaver Murder... a man killed a psychiatrist (psycologist?) with a cleaver. She wasn't his intended target tho...he went there to rob her partner who had him committed years earlier. The suspect stabbed the man several times then when she tried to intervene she was cut 15 times with a cleaver.

2) NY man found dead in his backyard the victim of a machete attack.  The man was new to the neighborhood...I don't know if police know the motive or have any suspects.

3) Man arrested for killing his 14 year old daughter and putting her in an incinerator....

I turned it off after that.    :\'(

I am wondering the same with all these youth knife killings in London.

Don't forget the girl at Louisiana Tech who killed two classmates(?) and then herself. I don't know if this crap is just getting more press or if the world is just going mad. :P

I would argue it's just more press.  Murder is as old as prostitution.  The only difference between today and the past is that they didn't report as much about murder back then.  For example, think of how many lynchings happened back in the '50s.  Most of those never got much press.

Granted, school shootings are a bit different.  In the past, people would usually kill classmates after school, but now they're doing it during class.  Also, there seems to be more of a trend where the murderer kills him or herself by the end of it.  The only positive to this is that it saves us the trouble of having to hold a trial.

Also, there seems to be more of a trend where the murderer kills him or herself by the end of it. The only positive to this is that it saves us the trouble of having to hold a trial.


Exactly.

Ant

I would argue it's just more press.  Murder is as old as prostitution. 


its not just that it's murder its the way people are being murdered... meat cleavers and machetes really?

guys cooking girlfriends
a couple killing the man's entire family parents, siblings and nieces/nephews...
father incinerating daughter...

it's just so much more violent

and believe me you don't have to tell me about lynchings I am very aware of the brutality that happened in the south from slavery to the events in Jasper TX in 98. 

but there is definitely a different feeling int he air lately.

but there is definitely a different feeling int he air lately.




I agree. It seems to be getting more and more violent and gruesome...but I blame a lot of that on the graphic movies that are shown today. They give perfect "examples" of "creative" ways to kill.  ::)

I'm sure people are going to jump all over me about this but I think it has to do with several things:

1. Parents are NOT being parents to their kids (read: http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=30840.0 )
2. Violent t.v. shows/movies/video games. Yeah, I know this is what people are going to jump all over me about this. Just this, is not enough to do it. But when you combine it with #1-it can. People are not taught that movies are fantasy. They see people getting shot up only to come back in the next movie-or at the start of the next game. Of course this is more with the younger crowd-yeah, it is a shame that we do have a younger crowd. Kids as young as 12 or 13 shooting up classmates.
3. I also think it has to do with drugs. I'm not talking about the usual-I'm talking about prescription. We are now a society that start our kids on drugs as young as 6-maybe even younger. OMG, this kid has energy-so therefore he MUST be ADHD. Before everyone jumps all over me about about this, too-I do understand that Ritilin and such do help a % of kids but many parents/doctors use it as a catch-up. And of course that brings us back to #1.

I'm not saying that ALL parents are drugging their kids and using violent movies/video games as babysitters-but there are too many out there. And in my book ONE is TOO many.



Cat

I'm sure people are going to jump all over me about this but I think it has to do with several things:

1. Parents are NOT being parents to their kids (read: http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=30840.0 )
2. Violent t.v. shows/movies/video games. Yeah, I know this is what people are going to jump all over me about this. Just this, is not enough to do it. But when you combine it with #1-it can. People are not taught that movies are fantasy. They see people getting shot up only to come back in the next movie-or at the start of the next game. Of course this is more with the younger crowd-yeah, it is a shame that we do have a younger crowd. Kids as young as 12 or 13 shooting up classmates.
3. I also think it has to do with drugs. I'm not talking about the usual-I'm talking about prescription. We are now a society that start our kids on drugs as young as 6-maybe even younger. OMG, this kid has energy-so therefore he MUST be ADHD. Before everyone jumps all over me about about this, too-I do understand that Ritilin and such do help a % of kids but many parents/doctors use it as a catch-up. And of course that brings us back to #1.

I'm not saying that ALL parents are drugging their kids and using violent movies/video games as babysitters-but there are too many out there. And in my book ONE is TOO many.



Cat


karma+...I totally agree! :)

For the most part I agree with you Cat... Parents are not parenting  and they do over medicate...remember when ADD was simply called...just being a boy?  I mean really -

I disagree with the video games but not when you place it in conjunction with the other factors.

I play grand theft auto for hours on end... usually, if I get in a car anytime afterwards I find that I do drive faster than normal (I'm a speeder anyway so its worse with the GTA adrenaline rush  ;D )  but I don't go around popping people and stealing cars.

I think the problem is in education...not just the great decline it has taken over the years but also in the way we devalue it in this society.

In other countries you ask kids what they want most and they just want to go to school. Either they aren't allowed to or their families cannot afford it.

In the US teachers don't get paid enough and more often then not their overcrowed classes are filled with kids who just don't want to be there.

How did we fall so far so fast.

The best example I can think if is the Little Rock incident. I watched a documentary last year it where they revisited Central High 50 years later.  The school was desegregated but in numbers only the classes were still very much segregated.

In 1957 nine black students entered Little Rock, under armed national guard,  in search of education from a school that had up until then been an all white school.

These kids fought for a better education....
50 years later one of the Little Rock 9 went back to give a talk.

What the filmmakers found was that there were only 3 black students in the school's AP (advanced placement) program. 

What the woman who fought for desegregation found was that within a classroom where both white and black students were in attendance...they sat on opposite sides of the room.


I see more kids (all colors)  who do not know how to read, write or articulate a thought. I'm thinking of the Wife Swap I saw last month where a 15 year old (white) beauty pageant fanatic couldn't spell America.  She was also asked to write an essay on a woman who made a difference in history. The girl decided to write about Rosa Parks. Frankly I was surprised she knew the name... maybe the new mom told her... anyway the girls first line of her outline read "Rosa Parks sit on bus" .  WHAT?  Weren't tenses covered in third grade? 

I say this all the time I worked with some kids (6th, 7th & 8th graders) who weren't able to spell 'special' 'birthday' 'physical' and 'education' (these are the ones that stick out)

I also work with college students who rely so much on spell check that they forget words can have multiple meanings.
Sentence structure is gone
Common sense is gone
The ability to articulate a thought is gone

Don't make me tell you stories about the trainee I had who I had to teach how to speak to someone on the phone!  ::)

okay all of this is off topic but maybe it would be a good place to start because now I am worried about the future in more ways than one....

For the most part I agree with you Cat... Parents are not parenting  and they do over medicate...remember when ADD was simply called...just being a boy?  I mean really -

I disagree with the video games but not when you place it in conjunction with the other factors.

I play grand theft auto for hours on end... usually, if I get in a car anytime afterwards I find that I do drive faster than normal (I'm a speeder anyway so its worse with the GTA adrenaline rush  ;D )  but I don't go around popping people and stealing cars.

My point is that video games alone is not the problem. But when you add it with the other factors. As for you playing GTA-you are as far as I know, a well-grounded adult. You understand that it is just a game.



I think the problem is in education...not just the great decline it has taken over the years but also in the way we devalue it in this society.

In other countries you ask kids what they want most and they just want to go to school. Either they aren't allowed to or their families cannot afford it.

In the US teachers don't get paid enough and more often then not their overcrowed classes are filled with kids who just don't want to be there.

How did we fall so far so fast.

The best example I can think if is the Little Rock incident. I watched a documentary last year it where they revisited Central High 50 years later.  The school was desegregated but in numbers only the classes were still very much segregated.

In 1957 nine black students entered Little Rock, under armed national guard,  in search of education from a school that had up until then been an all white school.

These kids fought for a better education....
50 years later one of the Little Rock 9 went back to give a talk.

What the filmmakers found was that there were only 3 black students in the school's AP (advanced placement) program. 

What the woman who fought for desegregation found was that within a classroom where both white and black students were in attendance...they sat on opposite sides of the room.


I see more kids (all colors)  who do not know how to read, write or articulate a thought. I'm thinking of the Wife Swap I saw last month where a 15 year old (white) beauty pageant fanatic couldn't spell America.  She was also asked to write an essay on a woman who made a difference in history. The girl decided to write about Rosa Parks. Frankly I was surprised she knew the name... maybe the new mom told her... anyway the girls first line of her outline read "Rosa Parks sit on bus" .  WHAT?  Weren't tenses covered in third grade? 

I say this all the time I worked with some kids (6th, 7th & 8th graders) who weren't able to spell 'special' 'birthday' 'physical' and 'education' (these are the ones that stick out)

I also work with college students who rely so much on spell check that they forget words can have multiple meanings.
Sentence structure is gone
Common sense is gone
The ability to articulate a thought is gone

Don't make me tell you stories about the trainee I had who I had to teach how to speak to someone on the phone!  ::)

okay all of this is off topic but maybe it would be a good place to start because now I am worried about the future in more ways than one....





I agree with you on that. Teachers are expecting to pick up the slack where parents are not doing their jobs and teachers are being paid less and less. As Carlos has said on more than one occasion, "I knew I wasn't going to get rich going into teaching nor did I take a vow of poverty either".  My sister is a teacher with a masters degree and has been one for at least 20 years or so. I don't know exactly how much she makes but I do know that it is not much.

So you have many over-worked and under-paid teacher (and people wonder why no one wants to go into the teaching profession), and on the other hand, you have the kids who have attitudes and don't want to learn. I think that comes down to the fact that there is no accountability. I remember when I was in school, we would be scared if we even had a couple of Cs on our report card-and if we had anything lower!!!!  :o :o :o  Well, let's just say we were too afraid to find out what the consequences were for that.

For the record: I used to be a certified teacher K-6. I let my teaching certification lapse last year because I knew I was never going to use it and why pay to have it renewed.



Cat

I'm sure people are going to jump all over me about this but I think it has to do with several things:

1. Parents are NOT being parents to their kids (read: http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=30840.0 )
2. Violent t.v. shows/movies/video games. Yeah, I know this is what people are going to jump all over me about this. Just this, is not enough to do it. But when you combine it with #1-it can. People are not taught that movies are fantasy. They see people getting shot up only to come back in the next movie-or at the start of the next game. Of course this is more with the younger crowd-yeah, it is a shame that we do have a younger crowd. Kids as young as 12 or 13 shooting up classmates.
3. I also think it has to do with drugs. I'm not talking about the usual-I'm talking about prescription. We are now a society that start our kids on drugs as young as 6-maybe even younger. OMG, this kid has energy-so therefore he MUST be ADHD. Before everyone jumps all over me about about this, too-I do understand that Ritilin and such do help a % of kids but many parents/doctors use it as a catch-up. And of course that brings us back to #1.

I'm not saying that ALL parents are drugging their kids and using violent movies/video games as babysitters-but there are too many out there. And in my book ONE is TOO many.



Cat


**JUMP**  >:( >:(




Kidding.  ;) :) I agree with what you said.  At one point my mother tried to get me to put my daughter on meds because she is energetic.  This child sat for two hours the other night making a valentine box.  To me that says she is not ADD.  I think there are too many doctors willing to prescribe the meds to shut the parents up.  Kids have energy, it is good to let them let it out. 

I don't let my daughter watch the violent tv or play the violent video games for the main reason that I don't like them.

Parents need to be parents.  You need to set boundaries and not be afraid to tell your kids "NO!"  I refuse to give into tantrums and I think it worked.  I am not saying my child is perfect, far from it.  But she knows how to behave and knows to knock it off when mom gets the mom tone.

I think Mac's onto it:  Nothing new under the sun.  Man is a violent creature.  Of course, the worst thing to do is accept or excuse violent behavior. 

If violence in the U.S. is on the rise nowadays, it might have something to do with a greater degree of insecurity and unhappiness as the middle dissolves.  The father's "kinder, gentler nation" and the son's "ownership society" turn out to be the "Savage Nation" and the indentured servitude society.  We've got big problems here. 

I agree that it always existed but the amount of copycats there are now is a consequence of the media obssession with crime and violence.

Max is totally right "Man is a violent creature" and when everything around us incites that instead of the other qualities,greater qualities we as humans have then there's no hope for change.

No one is really safe because we as humans are a mix of the best and the worst,it's up to us to decide how to deal with our "dark side" without harming others...just like Camus said. And it's up to the ones in power and the ones in the media to stop glorifying violence and making it acceptable.

^ Yes, our culture glorifies violence and revenge.  It's the mentality we see in the prisons.  It's all about who's top dog, who's submissive, and who gets respect. 
::)

Crime existed long before video games, music or television did. ;) The problem is teaching kids good values, being involved parents and just generally raising them right before they commit an act like this. And if something appears to be going wrong, look for the signs and act before anything can happen. The Columbine shooters were perfect examples.

Every generation blames the media, I believe, because it's the quickest and easiest thing. This is understandable to a point, because we see these tragedies and we want justice for the victims, so it's something to latch onto, partially out of anger and sadness for the moment. We have to realize this isn't healthy.

Playing GTA or Doom on its own isn't necesarilly bad (although I don't think, say a 10 year old should be around it), but I do agree that combined with other things, it may not help. I do think anyone who was going to commit murder, probably would have done it anyway. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as quickly or the same way, but I'm sure it would have.

I agree with a lot that has been said, but I also disagree with a lot too.

It is easy to say that parents aren't doing their jobs, but there are some parents who are busting their asses teaching their kids right from wrong, teaching them how to responsible for their actions and teaching them to own everything that they do. Unfortunately, no matter how had we love, how hard we teach or hard hard we rear them, they will ultimately make their own decisions - all we can hope for is that they make the right ones. Granted, their are some who (for lack of a better word) don't care what their kids are doing, but to say the 'bad eggs' were never taught by their parents is a gross oversight IMHO.

Teachers (elementary, middle and high) - we hope they add on to what is being taught at home, but don't be surprised if they don't. There are many teachers who still love what they do, and have wanted to do since they decided in college, unfortunately, their are many more who want the glory and money. Didn't they realize before coming a teacher that it is pretty much a thankless job with next to no income? Of course they did! But they used to have it in their hearts and their heads that they wanted to teach, wanted to mold young minds and that seeing that would be all the thanks they would need. Now some are quick to blame the parents and the child, quick to blame funding and quick to blame the urbanization of society.

Media - glorifies everything, everyday. Happy things aren't news! Murder, fighting, rage - now that's NEWS! They look for what sells, or at least what will be their driving force for the day, and they play it over and over and over again, etching it into our minds and hearts so that we feed off of the negativity of it all. Do they care about what they are showing you? Most times not. They have to make the sale!!! Case in point - MSNBC airing parts of the suicide tape received in the mail after the VA Tech slayings. Did they really need to? HELL NO! Should they have? HELL NO! But I bet you their ratings that day were phenomenal!!!!

The more things are glorified, the more they are shown on the History Channel, TRUTV, Crime tv or whatever the hell there is on the tube now, the more people will see it, the more people will think about it, the more it gets glorified and the more it gets shown.... it's a vicious cycle. IMHO

Video games? Ya, some are pretty disturbing, I'll give you that one - but any logical person knows they are just that - video games....


I have more to say, but I can't seem to get the thoughts right in my head how I want to say it - I will be back to finish my rant ;D

Censoring media isn't the answer here, but it is an easy thing to blame.