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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MrCleveland on 01/30/08 at 3:56 pm
He's like Casey from the story 'Casey at the Bat'. He decided to wait until next Tuesday, but that lagged him behind. He should've been in the Iowa Caucus, but he's even dumber than Bush and that's beyond dumb!
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 3:59 pm
So what's the score now?
Who does that leave in the race? Romney, McCain, Ron Paul and the weird guy that's gotten absolutely no new coverage? Can't wait till Super Tuesday.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Dagwood on 01/30/08 at 4:20 pm
Did Huckabee back out?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/30/08 at 4:59 pm
http://i28.tinypic.com/igb80j.jpg
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 5:50 pm
Did Huckabee back out?
Not yet.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 5:54 pm
http://i28.tinypic.com/igb80j.jpg
Since when is Shaggy a Conservative?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/30/08 at 6:05 pm
The scary thing is the Republican party thinks Rudy is "too liberal."
The voices of the Right don't even like McCain and Huckabee.
You have to say "screw the poor" and "God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days," not just one or the other!
::)
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 6:10 pm
The scary thing is the Republican party thinks Rudy is "too liberal."
The voices of the Right don't even like McCain and Huckabee.
You have to say "screw the poor" and "God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days," not just one or the other!
::)
They're having a tough time of it. Then there's Mitt and the fact that he's Mormon. That makes a Fundies skin crawl. Huckabee can't get any vote but Evangelicals, because Catholics don't like him. McCain to secular for some Republicans.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/30/08 at 6:13 pm
They're having a tough time of it. Then there's Mitt and the fact that he's Mormon. That makes a Fundies skin crawl. Huckabee can't get any vote but Evangelicals, because Catholics don't like him. McCain to secular for some Republicans.
Ron Paul would have been a great guy for the GOP--except he's against the occupation of Iraq and the corporate welfare state...which is 2/3 of the GOP agenda!
:-\\
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 6:18 pm
Ron Paul would have been a great guy for the GOP--except he's against the occupation of Iraq and the corporate welfare state...which is 2/3 of the GOP agenda!
:-\\
Yes, and the fact that he's loved by the ACLU and is not a cookie cutter conservative doesn't help much either. Heck that would get my vote. :)
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/30/08 at 6:30 pm
Yes, and the fact that he's loved by the ACLU and is not a cookie cutter conservative doesn't help much either. Heck that would get my vote. :)
I'd say he's not a cafeteria conservative. He doesn't pick and choose. When he says "small government" he means "small government" straight down the line. The Republican party believes in socialism for the rich and serfdom for everybody else. Paul would say If we're going to be capitalists, lets not subsidize Wal-Mart so Joe's Hardware can't compete.
::)
I couldn't support Paul because I disagree with him on too many issues, but I do respect him.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 6:41 pm
I'd say he's not a cafeteria conservative. He doesn't pick and choose. When he says "small government" he means "small government" straight down the line. The Republican party believes in socialism for the rich and serfdom for everybody else. Paul would say If we're going to be capitalists, lets not subsidize Wal-Mart so Joe's Hardware can't compete.
::)
I couldn't support Paul because I disagree with him on too many issues, but I do respect him.
Libertarians do like their small governments. Washington DC can crater in for all they care. The Republican party believes in a Caste system. The rich are entitled because they are rich. The poor need to buck-up, develop some back bone and get a job. No one interacts, the poor are the Republican party's "untouchables". I know the concept of Paul's view of capitalism but I don't think it would work here. Too many things against it, like American capitalism.
If I had to vote for Paul I would. I fear for the rights of the individual.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/30/08 at 7:01 pm
The scary thing is the Republican party thinks Rudy is "too liberal."
Conservative Case Against Rudy Giuliani
08/30/2006
Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999
It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?
Rudy's abortion stance is bad news for conservatives who are pro-life or who are concerned about getting originalist judges on the Supreme Court.
An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/giuliani01.jpg
In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.
Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.
Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?
Soft on Gay Marriage
Other than tax cuts, the biggest domestic issue of the 2004 election was President Bush's support of a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani has taken a "Kerryesque" position on gay marriage.
Although Rudy, like John Kerry, has said that marriage should remain between a man and a woman, he also supports civil unions, "marched in gay-pride parades ...dressed up in drag on national television for a skit on Saturday Night Live (and moved in with a) wealthy gay couple" after his divorce. He also very vocally opposed running on a gay marriage amendment:
His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."
Here's more from the New York Daily News:
"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.
The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.
"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"I certainly wouldn't support at this time," added Giuliani..."
Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.
Pro-Illegal Immigration
As Tom Bevan of RealClearPolitics has pointed out, Rudy is an adherent of the same approach to illegal immigration that John McCain, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, and Harry Reid have championed:
"While McCain has taken heat for his support of comprehensive immigration reform, Rudy is every bit as pro-immigration as McCain - if not more so. On the O'Reilly Factor last week Giuliani argued for a "practical approach" to immigration and cited his efforts as Mayor of New York City to "regularize" illegal immigrants by providing them with access to city services like public education to "make their lives reasonable." Giuliani did say that "a tremendous amount of money should be put into the physical security" needed to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming across the border, but his overall position on immigration is essentially indistinguishable from McCain's."
That's bad enough. But, as Michelle Malkin has revealed, under Giuliani, New York was an illegal alien sanctuary and "America's Mayor" actually sued the federal government in an effort to keep New York City employees from having to cooperate with the INS:
"When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law."
If you agree with the way that Nancy Pelosi and Company deal with illegal immigration, then you'll find the way that Rudy Giuliani tackles the issue to be right down your alley.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Tia on 01/30/08 at 7:03 pm
well, heck, maybe 9iu11iani isn't as bad as i thought... :P
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 7:05 pm
Conservative Case Against Rudy Giuliani
08/30/2006
Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999
It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?
Rudy's abortion stance is bad news for conservatives who are pro-life or who are concerned about getting originalist judges on the Supreme Court.
An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/giuliani01.jpg
In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.
Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.
Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?
Soft on Gay Marriage
Other than tax cuts, the biggest domestic issue of the 2004 election was President Bush's support of a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani has taken a "Kerryesque" position on gay marriage.
Although Rudy, like John Kerry, has said that marriage should remain between a man and a woman, he also supports civil unions, "marched in gay-pride parades ...dressed up in drag on national television for a skit on Saturday Night Live (and moved in with a) wealthy gay couple" after his divorce. He also very vocally opposed running on a gay marriage amendment:
His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."
Here's more from the New York Daily News:
"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.
The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.
"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"I certainly wouldn't support at this time," added Giuliani..."
Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.
Pro-Illegal Immigration
As Tom Bevan of RealClearPolitics has pointed out, Rudy is an adherent of the same approach to illegal immigration that John McCain, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, and Harry Reid have championed:
"While McCain has taken heat for his support of comprehensive immigration reform, Rudy is every bit as pro-immigration as McCain - if not more so. On the O'Reilly Factor last week Giuliani argued for a "practical approach" to immigration and cited his efforts as Mayor of New York City to "regularize" illegal immigrants by providing them with access to city services like public education to "make their lives reasonable." Giuliani did say that "a tremendous amount of money should be put into the physical security" needed to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming across the border, but his overall position on immigration is essentially indistinguishable from McCain's."
That's bad enough. But, as Michelle Malkin has revealed, under Giuliani, New York was an illegal alien sanctuary and "America's Mayor" actually sued the federal government in an effort to keep New York City employees from having to cooperate with the INS:
"When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law."
If you agree with the way that Nancy Pelosi and Company deal with illegal immigration, then you'll find the way that Rudy Giuliani tackles the issue to be right down your alley.
Go on say it. He would have done better running as a Democrat. Everybody know Rudy say whatever appeases a crowd. Remember his speech at an NRA meeting?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 01/30/08 at 7:15 pm
Go on say it. He would have done better running as a Democrat. Everybody know Rudy say whatever appeases a crowd. Remember his speech at an NRA meeting?
He should have ran as a democrat. Giuliani's views on just about everything but the war in Iraq are in line with the majority of democrats, not republicans. He's basically a Joe Lieberman type.
http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/rudypride.jpg
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 7:16 pm
He should have ran as a democrat. Giuliani's views on just about everything but the war in Iraq are in line with the majority of democrats, not republicans. He's basically a Joe Lieberman type.
http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/rudypride.jpg
Feel better now that you've said it?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/30/08 at 7:19 pm
Is it better to be soft on gay marriage or hard on gay marriage?
:D
My point exactly, if you don't think the citizenry needs "assault weapons," you're too liberal! Yeah, every right-winger loves assault weapons...until some street punk drives one into the small of his back!
What of this pro-gun ralley cry that we need an armed citizenry to protect us from a tyrannical government? Well, we've got one right frikkin' now! How's about it boys? Go sicc'em! If not now, when?
::)
Oh no, Hillary is the big threat, not the Bush Administration that thinks it has the Constitutional right to arrest you and detain you without charge! WTF?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 7:28 pm
Is it better to be soft on gay marriage or hard on gay marriage?
:D
My point exactly, if you don't think the citizenry needs "assault weapons," you're too liberal! Yeah, every right-winger loves assault weapons...until some street punk drives one into the small of his back!
What of this pro-gun ralley cry that we need an armed citizenry to protect us from a tyrannical government. Well, we've got one right frikkin' now! How's about it boys? Go sicc'em! If not now, when?
::)
Oh no, Hillary is the big threat, not the Bush Administration that thinks it has the Constitutional right to arrest you and detain you without charge! WTF?
Should Gay Marriage really matter at all? Marriage is a Religious institution after all. Separation of Church and State. Civil Union recognized by the government is fine by me.
Guns for an average citizen is of no real value. Can't take them to work, can't take them into most public places. Guns make paranoid people feel safe. How would having a gun protect from a government that uses wiretapping and spy satellites? This is not the "wild west" it's the 21st century.
I don't think Hillary would try and change the Constitution for her own political agenda. I don't think she'd be willing to suspend Habeas Corpus either.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MrCleveland on 01/30/08 at 10:37 pm
You have to say "screw the poor" and "God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days," not just one or the other!
::)
Guess I'll never be a true Republican, despite voting for Bush twice. Because I'm never a guy who will say "Screw the Poor"....Unless they fudge with me. (And not that way either!)
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MrCleveland on 01/30/08 at 10:40 pm
Should Gay Marriage really matter at all? Marriage is a Religious institution after all. Separation of Church and State. Civil Union recognized by the government is fine by me.
Guns for an average citizen is of no real value. Can't take them to work, can't take them into most public places. Guns make paranoid people feel safe. How would having a gun protect from a government that uses wiretapping and spy satellites? This is not the "wild west" it's the 21st century.
I don't think Hillary would try and change the Constitution for her own political agenda. I don't think she'd be willing to suspend Habeas Corpus either.
The reason why the marriage became a law was because of Joseph Smith and the Mormon Movement in the 1800's. America didn't want polygamy (Which is still practiced by some Mormons) to be practiced. So that's how marriage became law.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/30/08 at 10:44 pm
The reason why the marriage became a law was because of Joseph Smith and the Mormon Movement in the 1800's. America didn't want polygamy (Which is still practiced by some Mormons) to be practiced. So that's how marriage became law.
Yes, but it's on a state to state basis. Take Massachusetts for instance. A gay marriage preformed in Massachusetts is not recognized in PA. The only Federal act on marriage that I know of is DOMA.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MrCleveland on 01/30/08 at 10:51 pm
Yes, but it's on a state to state basis. Take Massachusetts for instance. A gay marriage preformed in Massachusetts is not recognized in PA. The only Federal act on marriage that I know of is DOMA.
I forgot about that.
Does Vermont do the same thing too?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 01/31/08 at 5:41 pm
I forgot about that.
Does Vermont do the same thing too?
Not sure there is a bunch of cases going through State courts that have Civil Unions, because there really isn't a lot of legal framework to deal with it.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 01/31/08 at 7:20 pm
Should Gay Marriage really matter at all? Marriage is a Religious institution after all. Separation of Church and State. Civil Union recognized by the government is fine by me.
Guns for an average citizen is of no real value. Can't take them to work, can't take them into most public places. Guns make paranoid people feel safe. How would having a gun protect from a government that uses wiretapping and spy satellites? This is not the "wild west" it's the 21st century.
I don't think Hillary would try and change the Constitution for her own political agenda. I don't think she'd be willing to suspend Habeas Corpus either.
I agree on all points.
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MrCleveland on 01/31/08 at 11:39 pm
Not sure there is a bunch of cases going through State courts that have Civil Unions, because there really isn't a lot of legal framework to deal with it.
Interesting Image. Is there one with Comic Book Guy saying "Worst President Ever"? (Whenever I hear that about Bush, I think of Comic Book Guy for some odd-ass reason.)
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 02/01/08 at 2:32 pm
Interesting Image. Is there one with Comic Book Guy saying "Worst President Ever"? (Whenever I hear that about Bush, I think of Comic Book Guy for some odd-ass reason.)
The Comic Book Guy reminds me of my friend Dave who can correctly answer any trivia question about science fiction or sports and blogs about 9/11 and other conspiracy theories whilst taking copious bong hits! I'll have to ask him, but I'm guessing he was a Kucinich man and now supports Ron Paul.
:P
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Foo Bar on 02/01/08 at 11:28 pm
I don't think Hillary would try and change the Constitution for her own political agenda. I don't think she'd be willing to suspend Habeas Corpus either.
The writ of habeas only isn't guarenteed by the Constitution; it's traditionally been applied to US citizens, but now that it's been established that US citizenship is de facto (that is, by the fact that neither party in the House or Senate has a problem with the current policy) revocable at the stroke of a pen... on January 20, 2009, whoever wins the election no longer has to take the political heat of asking Congress to suspend it de jure (that is, in law).
Of course she wouldn't. Nor would Obama, and nor will any of the permissible Republican nominees. They don't have to!
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 02/02/08 at 7:38 pm
The writ of habeas only isn't guaranteed by the Constitution; it's traditionally been applied to US citizens, but now that it's been established that US citizenship is de facto (that is, by the fact that neither party in the House or Senate has a problem with the current policy) revocable at the stroke of a pen... on January 20, 2009, whoever wins the election no longer has to take the political heat of asking Congress to suspend it de jure (that is, in law).
Of course she wouldn't. Nor would Obama, and nor will any of the permissible Republican nominees. They don't have to!
Habeas Corpus is a priced possession of western civilization. If it's gone all hell will break lose. Not only in the U.S. but European nations will be more than willing to call the U.S. government barbaric. Question does the executive branch have the right to call for the detainment of U.S. citizens who are suspect (but not tried) without the knowledge or cooperation of the Legislative or Judiciary branch?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Tia on 02/02/08 at 7:52 pm
Habeas Corpus is a priced possession of western civilization. If it's gone all hell will break lose. Not only in the U.S. but European nations will be more than willing to call the U.S. government barbaric. Question does the executive branch have the right to call for the detainment of U.S. citizens who are suspect (but not tried) without the knowledge or cooperation of the Legislative or Judiciary branch?
well the trick is that they (the US govt) sez they only abduct foreign nationals with these extraconstitutional, extralegal measures, but if you're an american citizen and youre kidnapped under these same measures, how are you going to prove it?
Subject: Re: Gulliani is out!
Written By: Reynolds1863 on 02/02/08 at 8:01 pm
well the trick is that they (the US govt) sez they only abduct foreign nationals with these extraconstitutional, extralegal measures, but if you're an american citizen and youre kidnapped under these same measures, how are you going to prove it?
How very true. Then you take them to another Country to be tortured. U.S. doesn't have secret CIA run prisons in other countries, or at least that what Bush said. ::)