I don't buy into conspiracy theories but lately I have been hearing bits that seem to be pieces of the same puzzle.

Lately, we have just discovered Free Speech T.V. ( http://www.freespeech.org/fscm2/genx.php?name=home )  They had a show about the 9/11 Commission and how the fact that the family members didn't get answers they were asking. My gut feeling on that tragic day was that the Bush Administration knew about it but did nothing. This show stated that-and even had a few eye witnesses to the fact.

The day before 9/11, a member of Pakistan's intelligence agency was in the U.S. and received a BIG pay-off. Then after, Dubya became buddy-buddy with Musharraf.

We also have to take into account that Bush is also buddy-buddy with the bin Ladin family (and according to Michael Moore, some were in the U.S. at the time of 9/11 and was gotten out of the country while all other flights were suspended.)

There were also other accounts that the U.S. flew bin Ladin out of the caves in Afghanistan to Pakistan while the army had him cornered. And of course attention was turned away to Iraq.

Then there was little number that Dubya tried to pull by putting control of port security in the hands of Dubai. And just recently he had that little arms deal with Saudi Arabia (some deal-we give them arms).

Now you look at all those governments-each one has ties to terrorist organizations-organizations that would love to see the U.S. fall to its knees. I wonder if it is truly all about oil (considering Pakistan doesn't have oil) or is it deeper than that. Like I said, I don't usually buy into conspiracy theories but as Lewis Carroll once said, "Curiouser and curiouser."

Any thoughts? Comments?



Cat 

yeah, a lot of people dont buy into conspiracy theories until they learn stuff like that. ;) flying the bin ladens out of the country actually predates michael moore, i think "censored 2001", a book that comes out every year talking about the biggest unreported stories the mainstream media ignore, talked about it. the official story is that the rest of the bin laden family is on the outs with OBL and after the attacks the FBI flew them out of the country because they were basically at risk of retaliatory attacks. but if there was some collusion between the bushes and bin ladens that would obviously account for it too. and that's the thing, for just about everything there's an innocent and sinister explanation.

it really is like the JFK assassination, once you start looking into it you find more and more suspicious stuff but the more you research it, the tougher it gets to bottle up the ends, as it were.

www.thinkingpeace.com/Lib/lib006.html

http://www.ofertondelibros.com/images/large/isbn978074/9780743253390-l.jpg

All these conspiracy theories give Bush way too much credit. If he knew about it, he's just a lackey. There is no
way he could mastermind such an insidious plot. The President may hold the most powerful  position in the world
but he is, by no means, the most powerful person. The checks and balances of this country make the president,
in a sense, just a figure head. If, and I say a big if, this was a homegrown plot it goes way deeper than Bush.

All these conspiracy theories give Bush way too much credit. If he knew about it, he's just a lackey. There is no
way he could mastermind such an insidious plot. The President may hold the most powerful  position in the world
but he is, by no means, the most powerful person. The checks and balances of this country make the president,
pretty much, just a figure head. If, and I say a big if, this was a homegrown plot it goes way deeper than Bush.
well, i disagreed with you right up till the end. i think the idea, if you want to go deep into the rabbit hole, is that bush was in a sense his own sort of lackey. that's why he sat in that elementary school for so long, he was waiting for direction but none came because he was out of the loop in the operation. it's sorta sad from his point of view to a certain kind of thinking. but yes, it would definitely go way deeper than him, and it probably actually wouldn't involve him much at all.

i was watching the wtc collapse again (very unhealthy, yes, i know but)... i'm not quite buying the controlled demolition thing. if you watch the controlled demolition footage they show to compare with the wtc 1 and 2 collapses, the entire structure falls en masse. in the wtc 1 and 2 collapses, if you watch frame by frame, the parts of the building that are far from the collapse at any given time aren't falling at all, they're stationary. but if you watch controlled demolitions, the entire building falls at once. you can look at the windows at the lower stories and they start falling the same time that the upper floors fall. but at wtc 1 and 2 the building is stationary until the top part hits it, and then it flowers out into this constellation of debris that radiates outward. i dunno, i think the projectile theory (that the top parts of the buildings came loose and then basically dismantled the floors below them like a cannonball) kinda jibes with what i'm seeing.

wtc 7 DOES look like a controlled demolition but this too jibes with what we were told, if its understructure gave out first then that's the way it collapsed, from the bottom, rather than with wtc 1 and 2, from above. so it would look superficially like a controlled demolition in that case.

doesn't mean it WASN'T a controlled demolition, but if it was, it wasn't the conventional sort. it means they were smart and wired the explosives to simulate how a collapse due to jumbo jet collision would behave. you would wire the foundations to blow early on, immediately compromising the structural integrity of the buildings. then you would plant coup de gras charges that would go off about thirty to 45 minutes after the planes struck, thus giving plenty of time for a media circus to gather and maximize the fear-creating impact. these charges would be placed around the impact areas, it wouldn't have to be that close. then you fire off these charges, with the weakened foundation you'd know the whole building would buckle and collapse but in the way that it did.

tell ya the truth, that theory accounts for the most evidence. it accounts for the fact that both buildings collapsed in the way they did on live television, but timed so as to maximize fear, giving all the major news networks a chance to congregate and really disseminate those images. (if you dont get that, if the timing's off, there's no reason to do this gig in the first place. it's about scaring the christ out of people, and televising those collapses, well timed, is how you do that.) it accounts for the witness accounts of explosives going off in the basements of the buildings right before the planes hit. it accounts for the witness accounts of explosions heard right as the towers started going down, and the sightings of what look like thermate charges going off near the impact points right before the towers fell. and most of all, it accounts for the fact that the more time elapsed after the plane collisions the LESS likely it became that the towers would collapse (as all along the fires were cooling off, not heating up). and most of all, it accounts for the whole perfectly terrifying clockwork timing of the whole thing, the fact that the towers, essentially, waited to collapse until a thousand cameras were on them and the full horrifying effect of what was happening had had a little while to sink in. from a psychological point of view the timing of the strikes and the collapse were absolutely perfect for instilling fear, and i dont think al qaeda would have had that degree of control.

i dunno, what do you think?

^sorry dont mind me. i think about this way too much. :-[

I can't say that I believe that the WTC was rigged with explosives, nor can I say that I don't believe it.  :-\\ 

My point being is that 9/11 was just one piece of the puzzle. It seems that Bush Administration is in it REALLY deep with terrorist organizations-maybe not directly but definitely indirectly. What was it that he used as an excuse for going after Saddam Hussein? The fact that he murdered his own people. How many lives lost because of Dubya? I'm not just talking American lives here-try Iraqi, Afghani, British, and many other nationalities.



Cat

It was either conspiracy or criminal incompetence!
::)

All these conspiracy theories give Bush way too much credit. If he knew about it, he's just a lackey. There is no
way he could mastermind such an insidious plot. The President may hold the most powerful  position in the world
but he is, by no means, the most powerful person. The checks and balances of this country make the president,
in a sense, just a figure head. If, and I say a big if, this was a homegrown plot it goes way deeper than Bush.


Agreed...  I hate Bush, but I really doubt he's competent enough to have plotted 9/11.

In terms of anything like this, it would be bush1, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he would let his kid take the heat for something he(bush1)was privy to.

Another conspiracy theory

Why doesn't bush1 remember where he was when he heard JFK was assassinated?  After all his was on the CIA payroll and in Dallas.

Another conspiracy theory

Why doesn't bush1 remember where he was when he heard JFK was assassinated?  After all his was on the CIA payroll and in Dallas.
Yeah, the JFK conspiracy runs awfully deep. I read a book years ago and it did a great job connecting all the various dots. Couldn't say who killed him, but it showed that every single person who had had any political power from the 50's to the 80's(Ronald Reagan the only notable exception) was either in Dallas that day, or in the vicinity.

No one will ever know exactly what happened that day. Like that infamous line said, "Even the shooters don't know".

I can't say that I believe that the WTC was rigged with explosives, nor can I say that I don't believe it.  :-\\ 

My point being is that 9/11 was just one piece of the puzzle. It seems that Bush Administration is in it REALLY deep with terrorist organizations-maybe not directly but definitely indirectly. What was it that he used as an excuse for going after Saddam Hussein? The fact that he murdered his own people. How many lives lost because of Dubya? I'm not just talking American lives here-try Iraqi, Afghani, British, and many other nationalities.

Cat



   What doesn't make sense to me is how we pick on him for the gassings.  Donald Rumsfeld, for instance, was helping get Iraq off the "terrorist sponsor" list and working toward normalizing US-Iraqi relations to begin offering Hussein military assistance while Saddam was committing atrocities against the Kurds and Iranians...


It was either conspiracy or criminal incompetence!
::)


  Criminal incompetence, covered up, is a conspiracy...

   

  What doesn't make sense to me is how we pick on him for the gassings.  Donald Rumsfeld, for instance, was helping get Iraq off the "terrorist sponsor" list and working toward normalizing US-Iraqi relations to begin offering Hussein military assistance while Saddam was committing atrocities against the Kurds and Iranians...

yeah, not to mention shipping hussein precursors for the very weapons he was using against the kurds and the iranians.  ::) when you ask a pro-war cat what was up with the flipflopping over hussein they say that he was the lesser of two evils because we were kinda in a cold war with the iranians because of the hostage crisis. which, you hate to say it but -- what's worse, taking 52 hostages or starting a war that leaves a million dead? bit odd that we would see iran as the greater threat but the hostage crisis was such a high-profile thing.

we are cursed to live in interesting times, that's for sure.

this is probably the LONGEST conspiracy video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_QdEfmbwC4

welcome to part 1 of... 186. :o the truth is out there! only problem is, by the time we've explained it to you you'll be too old and tired to care.