From Ronald Reagan threatening to cut off federal highway funds to any state that does not raise its drinking age to 21 to Michael Chertoff threatening to harrass at airports citizens of states that don't comply with the Real ID Act, once again the Small Government States' Rights Get-Government-Off-Your-Back Republicans show their fascist true colors.

^ Sorry about the inelegant phraseology here, but I'm too emetic to edit!


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080111-chertoff-on-final-real-id-rules-reconfiguring-our-society.html

If your state doesn't comply, it'll be no fun to fly

Because the Real ID rules are all opt-in, states can still refuse to comply with the requirements. However, if your license is issued by a non-compliant state, then you can expect to have a hard time getting on an airplane.

"If a state were to opt out of this, then their license would no longer as a matter of law be accepted as as proper identification for getting on an airplane," said Chertoff. He later explained that people from states that opt out can still get on airplanes and into federal buildings by "bringing other documents that are satisfactory." Either that, or they'll have to go into secondary screening, which means a sit-down interview with an agent.


OK all you big-government-hating Republicans, time to show what you're made of.  Make it clear you won't vote for any candidate that will not abolish the Department of Homeland Security and its Orwellian ways.  That goes for you too, Democrats.  Do we have the guts to take our country back from the fascists who use fear of terrorism, immigrants, and the memory of 9/11 intimidate us out of our constitutional rights? 

DO IT IN 2008 OR YOU MIGHT NOT GET ANOTHER CHANCE!!!

Ah yes, Real ID.  I've known about this since 2006 and it really isn't a pretty picture.  It essentially amounts to a national ID card, something that the US should avoid completely, yet in this post-9/11 and increasingly authoritarian world, the US government has decided to embrace it.

There are currently 17 states that have opposed Real ID and residents will be unable to fly or enter a federal building, among other things.  The economic consequences alone of the people of 17 states being unable to fly should be enough to convince the government to avoid Real ID, but it doesn't seem to have stopped them.  Personally, the whole thing sounds like coercion to me, forcing the states to accept Real ID, rather than relying on them accepting it of their own free will.

Might I also add that this is unconstitutional?  Of course, most politicians don't really care about the Costitution nowadays.  There are some that care, but they are in a very small minority.

Of course, most politicians don't really care about the Costitution nowadays.  


Especially the ones call themselves "strict constructionalists."  It's just like the way Christian fundamentalists go off about the literal meaning of the Bible but disregard the essence of the teachings of Jesus.

I'm in a weird position.  On the one hand, I support the REAL ID program.  It's one of the few ideas that may actually better secure our borders and prevent terrorism.

On the other, I sympathize greatly with Max's points.  I hate it when the federal government trumps the rights of states.  They did something similar when the state of Colorado voted on whether or not to legalize pot.  The feds threatened withdrawal of highway funds.

These kinds of things are why I generally believe the states should disconnect themselves from the feds as much as possible.  True advocates of smaller government stress the idea of states distancing themselves from the feds in most regards.  The only Republican I know of that truly pushes this idea is Ron Paul.  Even then, Paul is kind of crazy.

i guess i have trouble seeing this whole secure-the-borders, save-us-from-terrorists-please-daddy stuff as anything other than a scam to make us "easy to move from point A to point B," as the bushies used to say about the complacent frame of mind the shock and awe campaign was meant to instill in the iraqi people. (sorry, garbled phraseology there for me too...) i see this all as tying into a longer-term plan to get records on everybody and exercise immediate control over anyone who gets out of line. this has nothing to do with terrorism, except that the government pretty much views you and me as potential "terrorists" depending how pissed off their f***ing policies ultimately make us.

see, first they standardize the ID cards. then you make it so that you use the ID card to spend money the way you use your debit card now. then, if you annoy the government (by showing up to a protest, say, or voicing an opinion critical of the president in time of war), POW. they just cook up some excuse to switch off your card and presto! youre basically in prison and they dont even have to come catch you. with national ID, they got you from the word go.

f*** that. i'm gonna move to an opt-out state. ::)

Well, I normally don't side with big government, but a national ID sounds like a better idea than just letting things get worse with the current lax state of affairs.

I too would be against uniting it with my finances, but then again, who would be stupid enough to support that idea?

Bank records, utilities, yada yada are already tied to your SSN and that's probably how the government can track and freeze assets in the blink of an eye (unless you use cash, of course).  I guess having a combo ID/credit card would make it easier as the Tia has suggested.

I had a CA ID as well as IDs from IL and IN...CA is much harder to fake than IL and IN.  I liked the scene in Superbad where McLovin gets an ID from friggin' HAWAII when it's obvious he's in New England somewhere (otherwise why would he be going to Dartmouth?).  Then again, if you standardize an ID, it makes forgers' jobs a lot easier in a way because now they only have to concentrate their efforts on one kind of ID...

Well, I normally don't side with big government, but a national ID sounds like a better idea than just letting things get worse with the current lax state of affairs.

I too would be against uniting it with my finances, but then again, who would be stupid enough to support that idea?
all they'd have to do is tie it in with national security. i just think there are folks who will fall for anything as long as the boogeyman get waved in their face. these folks seem quite eager to be hostages of the state.

this is the way i'd do it if i was a cryptofascist -- first you tell folks that they'll get a favorable boost to their credit rating if they agree to tie their national ID with their financial card. then you make a lot of hay about all the terrorist financing that evidently gets done through charity cutouts to say something like, look, you can keep your finances separate from your national ID card but if so we really cant trust that your transactions aren't terrorist-related because it makes you look like you have something to hide. so you're gonna have to go through an extra approval process for any transactions over, say, a hundred bucks. see? a little carrot, a little stick. then, once enough people sign up for it you say, look, we just cant support these two systems any more, so the rest of you just need to swallow hard and get with the rest of us. that's the trick: start with an opt-out, but make it harder and harder to opt out until it basically becomes compulsory. and once you need their permission before you can spend your own money, they own your ass.

dude, these people dont want to protect you from terrorists. they want to control you. i promise.

I'm more interested in the government being able to keep out illegals than I am in boosting my credit rating or any of that mess.  I will agree that the government is generally not to be trusted and that many people are just gullible idiots.

Still, I don't see a national ID (as is currently designed) as a problem.  I'm actually more worried about illegals than terrorists.

Here we go again using a driver's license for an ID card. I can't tell ya how much this really pisses me off. Not everyone drives!  >:( >:( >:(

Oh, and if they are going to implement this by May? Yeah right. Look what happened with the passport changes.  ::)



Cat

Most DMVs provide a non-driver ID card that can be used for age verification and other purposes.  The wife had one before she got her driver's license.

all they'd have to do is tie it in with national security. i just think there are folks who will fall for anything as long as the boogeyman get waved in their face. these folks seem quite eager to be hostages of the state.

this is the way i'd do it if i was a cryptofascist -- first you tell folks that they'll get a favorable boost to their credit rating if they agree to tie their national ID with their financial card. then you make a lot of hay about all the terrorist financing that evidently gets done through charity cutouts to say something like, look, you can keep your finances separate from your national ID card but if so we really cant trust that your transactions aren't terrorist-related because it makes you look like you have something to hide. so you're gonna have to go through an extra approval process for any transactions over, say, a hundred bucks. see? a little carrot, a little stick. then, once enough people sign up for it you say, look, we just cant support these two systems any more, so the rest of you just need to swallow hard and get with the rest of us. that's the trick: start with an opt-out, but make it harder and harder to opt out until it basically becomes compulsory. and once you need their permission before you can spend your own money, they own your ass.

dude, these people dont want to protect you from terrorists. they want to control you. i promise.


So...are you saying that it's almost like Brave New World?

So...are you saying that it's almost like Brave New World?
a little less nice than bnw, not quite as depraved as 1984, but yeah, i guess basically.

I never read Brave New World because I opted out of AP English...how is it?

I never read Brave New World because I opted out of AP English...how is it?
it's cool! there's soma. and vend-a-baby machines.

I never read Brave New World because I opted out of AP English...how is it?

All Huxley is wonderful.

all they'd have to do is tie it in with national security. i just think there are folks who will fall for anything as long as the boogeyman get waved in their face. these folks seem quite eager to be hostages of the state.

this is the way i'd do it if i was a cryptofascist -- first you tell folks that they'll get a favorable boost to their credit rating if they agree to tie their national ID with their financial card. then you make a lot of hay about all the terrorist financing that evidently gets done through charity cutouts to say something like, look, you can keep your finances separate from your national ID card but if so we really cant trust that your transactions aren't terrorist-related because it makes you look like you have something to hide. so you're gonna have to go through an extra approval process for any transactions over, say, a hundred bucks. see? a little carrot, a little stick. then, once enough people sign up for it you say, look, we just cant support these two systems any more, so the rest of you just need to swallow hard and get with the rest of us. that's the trick: start with an opt-out, but make it harder and harder to opt out until it basically becomes compulsory. and once you need their permission before you can spend your own money, they own your ass.

dude, these people dont want to protect you from terrorists. they want to control you. i promise.

Karma +1

They will tie everything in with your credit score if they can.  I despise the power of the credit bureaus and the cute little "Free Credit Report" ads on TV.  Last time I spoke up against the cred bureaus, a certain conservative around here regarded my comments like I was against the law of gravity or something!

Make it impossible for people to file for bankruptcy and easy for corporations to file bankruptcy. 

Any time a fascist government gets its hands on more power, they use it to restrict rights and privileges of citizens.  That's why our government desperately needs FOX News, NPR, and the rest of the shill media to keep a lid on popular outrageous.  Yes, I said NPR, National Pentagon Radio.
::)

In a surprising move the Missouri state legislature passed Bill HCR 20 which prohibited the application of the Real ID concept. But.. there's a lot of talk in regard to turning that over now.

I have numerous photo i.d's due to my job - I'm often around people who are very touchy about members of the public and as such have I.D's from A) The state B) The Union and C) From the Performing Arts council as well as two other Government ID's. I can prove who I am very easily and if Real ID were to be implemented it wouldn't cause me any trouble, but that being said, I don't see the point. Let's be fair, no matter how tamper proof you make ID, it will eventually be forged. Hell, it was only a couple of years ago that you could use Photoshop to forge an almost exact replica of a passport. I have no idea what sort of software and technology is available now but if my 13 year old cousin can unlock an I-Phone I dare say a 25 year old guy with a computer science degree and a few thousand in disposable income could forge any sort of ID card.

I never read Brave New World because I opted out of AP English...how is it?


Read it.  The methods described in 1984 constitute only one way of taking over the world.  Brave New World documents the other way you take over the world. 

(1984's a short enough book that I'd encourage you to read it immediately before or immediately after BNW.  Your plans for world domination will be much more flexible if you're prepared to take the most useful approaches from either instruction manual :-)

I'd tell you more, but I'm kinda busy.  I've just had six cheeseburgers and three beers -- or was it the other way around -- and there's a documentary on the life of Britney Spears on the History Channel, followed by an all-new Ow!  My Balls! is on the Violence Channel tonight!  What a brave new world, that has such... stuff... in it.

I'd tell you more, but I'm kinda busy.  I've just had six cheeseburgers and three beers -- or was it the other way around -- and there's a documentary on the life of Britney Spears on the History Channel, followed by an all-new Ow!  My Balls! is on the Violence Channel tonight!  What a brave new world, that has such... stuff... in it.


I take it Idiocracy is a part of your movie collection. ;)

I'd tell you more, but I'm kinda busy.  I've just had six cheeseburgers and three beers -- or was it the other way around -- and there's a documentary on the life of Britney Spears on the History Channel, followed by an all-new Ow!  My Balls! is on the Violence Channel tonight!  What a brave new world, that has such... stuff... in it.

Don't forget the walker relay races on the Retirment Living Channel!
:-\\

(I have seen commercials for the Retirement Living Channel and from the looks of it, if I was an old man, I'd put my foot through the TV screen!)

I take it Idiocracy is a part of your movie collection. ;)
no, but Ass is. :P

I need to watch Idiocracy again. I saw parts of it, but I was trying to avoid my mother in law by hiding in another room, so..... :P

no, but Ass is. :P


To take this thread completely off-topic, anyone here tried Brawndo yet?  The Thirst Mutilator is now a real drink.  Slowly but surely, everything Judge foresaw is coming true...

To take this thread completely off-topic, anyone here tried Brawndo yet?  The Thirst Mutilator is now a real drink.  Slowly but surely, everything Judge foresaw is coming true...
no! this is like when a company tried to copyright naomi klein's "no logo" logo. corporations dont even know when they're being mocked! if they get mocked successfully, the company being mocked BUYS the mockery and tries to capitalize on it! it's amazing. :o

no!


YES!

The Toronto Star article is actually a pretty good explanation of the phenomenon.  It's also notable because it reminded me that the economy doesn't just have room in it for Brawndo, it has room in it for folks like Faith Plotkin - who, upon realizing that "Plotkin" just wasn't the sort of name that was going to do in a Third Wave (I think I'm citing my early-90s paradigms correctly) - renamed herself "Faith Popcorn", and is somehow still being taken seriously.

no! this is like when a company tried to copyright naomi klein's "no logo" logo. corporations dont even know when they're being mocked! if they get mocked successfully, the company being mocked BUYS the mockery and tries to capitalize on it! it's amazing. :o

NAOMI KLEIN ROCKS!!!

(Just now I subscribed to The Nation again!)

NAOMI KLEIN ROCKS!!!

(Just now I subscribed to The Nation again!)
yeah, i'm a fan. i went and saw her speak when her "shock doctrine" thing came through town.

yeah, i'm a fan. i went and saw her speak when her "shock doctrine" thing came through town.

I don't think she's been up this way.  I'd love to go see her.  She's hot.  Gotta love smart women!
:)